actually, i didn't post this for the aggression or really the gripping. i was hoping that someone would catch the owner referring to his gripping dog as both an ambull and a pit bull. i hate to spell everything out all of the time.
but yes, i watched the malinois. i know someone involved in schutzhund and they say that GSD are still preferred over malinois because the belgian doesn't like to let go. did you know that some malinois breeders are using APBT to increase the athleticism and prey drive in the malinois?
FuzzyZuft, there is quite a bit of difference but I won't explain because it would be well over your head.
The bite suits are now being changed. It was discovered that the trained dogs react to the stuffing that is inside the suit and have been reacting in the home and public. Seems the smell does it so now they are stuffing those suits with something different.
I think there is a very legitimate answer to your question, FU. The difference between the Malinois and the pit is that that particular Malinois is a herding dog trained to bite and hold - you'll notice that he attacks the leg of the decoy with all 4 feet firmly on the floor.
The AmBull - like all AmBulls and pit bulls - is a gripping dog with an instinct to jump up for the face/neck and bite, shake, and hold. There is no training required.
I can guarantee you that the Mal, if trained correctly (and without pit blood), will release immediately on command, the AmBull won't. An untrained Mal in attack mode will bite, release, and retreat multiple times but almost always attacks the extremities. Their goal is to drive away what they perceive to be a threat, they are not trying to kill.
The danger from a Malinois is therefore much less, and that is reflected in the fatality stats, isn't it? I love Malinois, it's too damn bad that some idiot breeders are contaminating their lines with pit blood. Way to ruin a truly noble breed.
Another difference, if tangential--the Malinois is both expensive and exceedingly rare. I've lived in both NYC and the West, and to the best of my knowledge, I've never seen a Malinois that wasn't a law enforcement dog. According to a search on petfinder, there are 265 Mals up for adoption out of 185,213 total dogs. A rough estimate of the total number of just 3 (three!) pit bull type dogs is over 26,000.
The odds of being attacked by a Malinois are exceedingly small. Most people do not even know they exist.
Dawn, you post reminded me of something I came across on Terrierman's blog and the Pedigree Dogs Exposed blog--see the link here:
See the link for Leavitt bulldogs? They claim to be breeding healthy, functional bulldogs without squashed, flat faces. I'm reading the website now, so I hope I'm not asking a self-evident question, but does anyone know if they're making these bulldogs through outcrosses with pit bull type dogs?
Vintage, I just read that article you linked, and in it there was a question of whether the child had been alone or not at the time of the attack. As far as the severity, I don't think it would have made much difference. I've read stories where the adults were right in the same room and could not stop the dog from killing the toddler.
I read somewhere that current English bulldogs were a cross with pug. That sounds a bit far fetched because they come from different continents and the current version has been around for a while. Still, maybe they could cross them with puggle ;)
From the Leavitt website: "I’ve used breeds that all have old Bulldog in their background. My dogs are half English Bulldog, and the other half Bullmastiff, Pit Bull, and American Bulldog"
So a treble dose of pit fighting "breeds" in this concoction. Friggin genius move.
As to the videos. The videos themselves tell part of the story. In one you have well trained belgian breeds engaged in protection work training under the handling of savy owners. On the other, Bubbatard gets his pit fighting breed dog to chomp on a rope and suspend from a fence. Inept owner doing nothing more than demonstarting how his penis extension, oops, I mean fighting dog can really grab, growl and hold.
And generally speaking the ownership of these types of dogs could hardly be more disparate. Belgian breed enthusiasts warn prospective buyers about the intense drive, physicality, and intelligence of their breed. They advise against novice ownership and bringing the dog into a home with young children when temperament and conditions are not suitable. Pitagandists would have the public believe the myth that it is 100% nurture (all in how you raise them) and that their breed(s) are "nanny dogs" and just all kitten loving and rainbows come out of their butts.
It is silly to make the comparison, but Fuznuts is a pretty silly guy.
re: leavitt bulldogs, it is hard to say if they are crossing APBT, they probably are using ambulls. i haven't researched this bulldog but if they are breeding these dogs for a function like hunting or protection, most likely. sorry, i can't tell because that UK breeder page won't load.
re: malinois and petfinder, i like to use petfinder in the same way. although not perfect, you get a better picture of dog numbers and popularity. there are a couple of problems with accuracy on petfinder. the first is the nutter tendency to mislabel pits as lab mixes and the other problem is counting a dog more than once. a pit bull lab cross will be listed under both breeds, which i assume affects that 185,213 number.
re: pugs, i have read they crossed the original english bull baiter with the pug to get the current english bulldog.
well, looks like jim has the answer. i couldn't get that bulldog breeder page to load.
and speaking of malinois and rainbows, here's a blast from the craven past (click on marji beach in the labels and read while marji farts even more rainbows)
Now they are reporting the "Nannied" toddler was left with her aunt. Wouldn't surprise me if the Aunt administered the "Nanny Dog Sermon" to the mother to get her babysitting money.
1994 New London CT: Melanie Mabry's neutered Pit "Revlon" mauls 71 year old Sylvia Richmond so badly she loses a leg. In August 1993, Revlon attacked 71 year old Ralph Minar who was walking his dog. After his leg injuries weakened him he died of a heart attack two months later.
The kicker?!? A/C Offcer-Nutter Joan Belden only issued Mabry a written warning after the first attack!
In the first media coverage of this story, Mabry claimed to be a full-time nursing student as a measure to show herself as a productive member of society. Later, the college stated they had no record of her ever being enrolled.
Somewhere out there Revlon's breeder is still pumping out "family dogs"
Oh yes, I am familiar with the way pit bulls are frequently--even desperately--mislabeled, thanks almost entirely to CD & Co.'s excellent blog posts on the subject. And the way mixes skew the stats at petfinder. I agree though--petfinder is a valid source of info--I see no reason why it's data could not be used in peer-reviewed research, as long as the limitations of the data are clearly and intelligently discussed.
The mislabeling of pit bull type dogs drives me nuts. Especially when nutters say that "most people" can't ID a pitbull, as if the nutters have some mystical dog-identifying powers the rest of society lacks. I think that SRUV nailed it best when he said to a reader who offered that inane arguement: "Everyone I know can identify a pit bull. Are you serious?" Indeed, SRUV, indeed. The variation between pit bull type dog breeds in truly a distinction without a difference.
The serious attacks have had an uptick lately (over the past month or so starting a little before Napora). Not sure why, maybe a change in season and the pits being more crazed than usual because they aren't outside as much (not an excuse just an explanation). This brings up the question, what exactly would need to happen for pit nutters to change their mind about this breed? We saw Greg Napora being offered the ultimate personal evidence and anecdote. These folks love their personal anecdotes, but seem only to learn from the ones that conform to their previous conclusions.
I think that the havoc created by this breed group could double immediately, and this would have little effect on the nutter core. It would perhaps shave a few off the edge or keep a few from becoming nutters, however. I'd estimate that pit attacks could increase (without any change in attack rates by other breeds) by a factor of 10 and Bad Rap would still be around. In fact, they would find a way to use it to show how abuse has increased, and they need more donations.
That's one ugly mutt... doesn't even look like much of a Ambull (not even a Johnson type), certainly not an "american pitbull". Look at the face at the end; it's some kind of boxer mix.
Typical ignorant redneck posting on youtube...
What's aggressive about the dog in that video, though? Looks like he's just have a tug session. That's a lot less noise than my pup makes when he's tuggin' on the end of a rope-toy we hold.
And despite human population increases and dog ownership increases since the 80's, yearly dog bite fatalities for all dogs except pit bulls averaged 12 per year for 2008-2010.
And we all have seen many of the deaths referred to as accidents and we know better, death by pitocide is never an accident. http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/animal-rights/there-such-thing-accidental-death-pit-bull#comment-115609
Can anyone tell me if the the 'pittybritty' that craven refences in the taylor blog, is the same pittybritty known to advocate the pitbull breed that has hospitalized after a brake in resulting in her injuries and the death of her APBT? This is a nonlocal story and i cant seem to find anymore info on it...... When i did a search, your site popped up along with a few of this woman mother, claiming "cravens desires and dogsbite.org is is responsible for the attack on her daughter and loved family pet, the bloggers on CD and DBO are aggressive criminals, giving out persons personal info, addresses etc....". Can anyone give me alittle more detail?
that is aggressive.
ReplyDeleteCompletely legitimate question, what's the difference between that and THIS:
http://youtu.be/aWNn6tOi7kM
actually, i didn't post this for the aggression or really the gripping. i was hoping that someone would catch the owner referring to his gripping dog as both an ambull and a pit bull. i hate to spell everything out all of the time.
ReplyDeletebut yes, i watched the malinois. i know someone involved in schutzhund and they say that GSD are still preferred over malinois because the belgian doesn't like to let go. did you know that some malinois breeders are using APBT to increase the athleticism and prey drive in the malinois?
There's another big difference - the elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about: The stats on people mauled to death by dogs!
ReplyDeleteJust since the early 80s, over 200 North Americans have been mauled to death by pit bulls. Zero have been killed by Malinois.
To recap:
Pit bulls: 200+
Malinois: 0
See the difference?
One breed is smart and the other is dumb as a rock?!?
ReplyDeleteFuzzyZuft, there is quite a bit of difference but I won't explain because it would be well over your head.
ReplyDeleteThe bite suits are now being changed. It was discovered that the trained dogs react to the stuffing that is inside the suit and have been reacting in the home and public. Seems the smell does it so now they are stuffing those suits with something different.
I think there is a very legitimate answer to your question, FU. The difference between the Malinois and the pit is that that particular Malinois is a herding dog trained to bite and hold - you'll notice that he attacks the leg of the decoy with all 4 feet firmly on the floor.
ReplyDeleteThe AmBull - like all AmBulls and pit bulls - is a gripping dog with an instinct to jump up for the face/neck and bite, shake, and hold. There is no training required.
I can guarantee you that the Mal, if trained correctly (and without pit blood), will release immediately on command, the AmBull won't. An untrained Mal in attack mode will bite, release, and retreat multiple times but almost always attacks the extremities. Their goal is to drive away what they perceive to be a threat, they are not trying to kill.
The danger from a Malinois is therefore much less, and that is reflected in the fatality stats, isn't it? I love Malinois, it's too damn bad that some idiot breeders are contaminating their lines with pit blood. Way to ruin a truly noble breed.
Anyone else notice that every time Nu-zupf shows up with his nutter gibberish that someone dies?!?
ReplyDeleteAnother toddler "Nannied" to death in Connecticut last night:
http://www.necn.com/10/01/11/Toddler-killed-in-pit-bull-attack-in-Con/landing_newengland.html?blockID=570480&feedID=4206
you're so funny vintage :-)
ReplyDeleteRepellent.
ReplyDeleteAnother difference, if tangential--the Malinois is both expensive and exceedingly rare. I've lived in both NYC and the West, and to the best of my knowledge, I've never seen a Malinois that wasn't a law enforcement dog. According to a search on petfinder, there are 265 Mals up for adoption out of 185,213 total dogs. A rough estimate of the total number of just 3 (three!) pit bull type dogs is over 26,000.
The odds of being attacked by a Malinois are exceedingly small. Most people do not even know they exist.
Dawn, you post reminded me of something I came across on Terrierman's blog and the Pedigree Dogs Exposed blog--see the link here:
http://pedigreedogsexposed.blogspot.com/2011/09/vets-tough-talk-on-pedigree-dogs.html
and
http://www.leavittbulldogs.co.uk/#/the-leavitt-bulldog/4533026277
See the link for Leavitt bulldogs? They claim to be breeding healthy, functional bulldogs without squashed, flat faces. I'm reading the website now, so I hope I'm not asking a self-evident question, but does anyone know if they're making these bulldogs through outcrosses with pit bull type dogs?
Thanks again
Vintage, I just read that article you linked, and in it there was a question of whether the child had been alone or not at the time of the attack. As far as the severity, I don't think it would have made much difference. I've read stories where the adults were right in the same room and could not stop the dog from killing the toddler.
ReplyDeleteRo,
ReplyDeleteI read somewhere that current English bulldogs were a cross with pug. That sounds a bit far fetched because they come from different continents and the current version has been around for a while. Still, maybe they could cross them with puggle ;)
From the Leavitt website:
ReplyDelete"I’ve used breeds that all have old Bulldog in their background. My dogs are half English Bulldog, and the other half Bullmastiff, Pit Bull, and American Bulldog"
So a treble dose of pit fighting "breeds" in this concoction. Friggin genius move.
As to the videos. The videos themselves tell part of the story. In one you have well trained belgian breeds engaged in protection work training under the handling of savy owners. On the other, Bubbatard gets his pit fighting breed dog to chomp on a rope and suspend from a fence. Inept owner doing nothing more than demonstarting how his penis extension, oops, I mean fighting dog can really grab, growl and hold.
And generally speaking the ownership of these types of dogs could hardly be more disparate. Belgian breed enthusiasts warn prospective buyers about the intense drive, physicality, and intelligence of their breed. They advise against novice ownership and bringing the dog into a home with young children when temperament and conditions are not suitable. Pitagandists would have the public believe the myth that it is 100% nurture (all in how you raise them) and that their breed(s) are "nanny dogs" and just all kitten loving and rainbows come out of their butts.
It is silly to make the comparison, but Fuznuts is a pretty silly guy.
re: leavitt bulldogs, it is hard to say if they are crossing APBT, they probably are using ambulls. i haven't researched this bulldog but if they are breeding these dogs for a function like hunting or protection, most likely. sorry, i can't tell because that UK breeder page won't load.
ReplyDeletehere are examples of bulldog pit bull crosses
re: malinois and petfinder, i like to use petfinder in the same way. although not perfect, you get a better picture of dog numbers and popularity. there are a couple of problems with accuracy on petfinder. the first is the nutter tendency to mislabel pits as lab mixes and the other problem is counting a dog more than once. a pit bull lab cross will be listed under both breeds, which i assume affects that 185,213 number.
re: pedigreed dog expose in the UK, EXCELLENT documentary
re: pugs, i have read they crossed the original english bull baiter with the pug to get the current english bulldog.
well, looks like jim has the answer. i couldn't get that bulldog breeder page to load.
and speaking of malinois and rainbows, here's a blast from the craven past
(click on marji beach in the labels and read while marji farts even more rainbows)
you're funny jim, vintage has competition :-)
Now they are reporting the "Nannied" toddler was left with her aunt. Wouldn't surprise me if the Aunt administered the "Nanny Dog Sermon" to the mother to get her babysitting money.
ReplyDeleteAnother legalized murder...
PREVENT THE DEED, BAN THE BREED
GREAT BSL POSTERDOGS IN HISTORY:
ReplyDelete1994 New London CT: Melanie Mabry's neutered Pit "Revlon" mauls 71 year old Sylvia Richmond so badly she loses a leg. In August 1993, Revlon attacked 71 year old Ralph Minar who was walking his dog. After his leg injuries weakened him he died of a heart attack two months later.
The kicker?!? A/C Offcer-Nutter Joan Belden only issued Mabry a written warning after the first attack!
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=DKpGAAAAIBAJ&sjid=W_gMAAAAIBAJ&pg=4772,3577891&dq=melanie+mabry+pit+bull&hl=en
In the first media coverage of this story, Mabry claimed to be a full-time nursing student as a measure to show herself as a productive member of society. Later, the college stated they had no record of her ever being enrolled.
Somewhere out there Revlon's breeder is still pumping out "family dogs"
Disclaimer**You can't make this stuff up!
Oh yes, I am familiar with the way pit bulls are frequently--even desperately--mislabeled, thanks almost entirely to CD & Co.'s excellent blog posts on the subject. And the way mixes skew the stats at petfinder. I agree though--petfinder is a valid source of info--I see no reason why it's data could not be used in peer-reviewed research, as long as the limitations of the data are clearly and intelligently discussed.
ReplyDeleteThe mislabeling of pit bull type dogs drives me nuts. Especially when nutters say that "most people" can't ID a pitbull, as if the nutters have some mystical dog-identifying powers the rest of society lacks. I think that SRUV nailed it best when he said to a reader who offered that inane arguement: "Everyone I know can identify a pit bull. Are you serious?" Indeed, SRUV, indeed. The variation between pit bull type dog breeds in truly a distinction without a difference.
RO MARTINET
I thank you:
ReplyDeleteVintage,
P,
and special thanks to BB for answering my question.
http://peters.patch.com/articles/news-nearby-canceled-wedding-turns-into-a-fairy-tail
ReplyDeleteWeird nutter gathering.
that is a little weird.
ReplyDeleteAnother baby Nannied to Death in Texas ...Way to go Nu-Zupf!
ReplyDeleteThey oughtt to call them "Child Endangerment Dogs"!
The serious attacks have had an uptick lately (over the past month or so starting a little before Napora). Not sure why, maybe a change in season and the pits being more crazed than usual because they aren't outside as much (not an excuse just an explanation). This brings up the question, what exactly would need to happen for pit nutters to change their mind about this breed? We saw Greg Napora being offered the ultimate personal evidence and anecdote. These folks love their personal anecdotes, but seem only to learn from the ones that conform to their previous conclusions.
ReplyDeleteI think that the havoc created by this breed group could double immediately, and this would have little effect on the nutter core. It would perhaps shave a few off the edge or keep a few from becoming nutters, however. I'd estimate that pit attacks could increase (without any change in attack rates by other breeds) by a factor of 10 and Bad Rap would still be around. In fact, they would find a way to use it to show how abuse has increased, and they need more donations.
Including Napora (Aug. 11 date of attack) and going forward to today there have been 8 dog bite related fatalities in the U.S.
ReplyDeleteOne involved a rott and another involved a group of dog, at least one of which was a pit. The other six were pits and pit mixes.
If people were dying at this rate from tainted tylenol, it would be all over the news and congress would have held a hearing about it by now.
http://news.yahoo.com/nj-jail-inmate-saves-shelter-worker-pit-bull-113430640.html
ReplyDeleteI am left shaking my head in wonder. As Vintage would say, you can't make this stuff up!
That's one ugly mutt... doesn't even look like much of a Ambull (not even a Johnson type), certainly not an "american pitbull". Look at the face at the end; it's some kind of boxer mix.
ReplyDeleteTypical ignorant redneck posting on youtube...
What's aggressive about the dog in that video, though? Looks like he's just have a tug session. That's a lot less noise than my pup makes when he's tuggin' on the end of a rope-toy we hold.
US Pit Fatalities are right on track at 16 for 2011 with three months to go. The average has been 17 annually for last 5 years.
ReplyDeleteBack in the 80's the US only had 10-12 fatalities from ALL breeds combined.
Yet somehow, the Tax free, $Billion a year Pit Breeding, Dog Fighting and Pit Advocacy Industry flourishes without liabilty...
http://www.fatalpitbullattacks.com/
And despite human population increases and dog ownership increases since the 80's, yearly dog bite fatalities for all dogs except pit bulls averaged 12 per year for 2008-2010.
ReplyDeleteAnd we all have seen many of the deaths referred to as accidents and we know better, death by pitocide is never an accident.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/animal-rights/there-such-thing-accidental-death-pit-bull#comment-115609
Can anyone tell me if the the 'pittybritty' that craven refences in the taylor blog, is the same pittybritty known to advocate the pitbull breed that has hospitalized after a brake in resulting in her injuries and the death of her APBT? This is a nonlocal story and i cant seem to find anymore info on it......
ReplyDeleteWhen i did a search, your site popped up along with a few of this woman mother, claiming "cravens desires and dogsbite.org is is responsible for the attack on her daughter and loved family pet, the bloggers on CD and DBO are aggressive criminals, giving out persons personal info, addresses etc....". Can anyone give me alittle more detail?
I'm sure homeland security will arrest the perp when they try to re-enter the US...
ReplyDeletePredicting Fundraising plea within 24 hours..