Blogger Scorched Earth reviews all eleven pit bull fatalities of the first 4 months of 2013 and gathers together the excuses:
"from the foot soldiers in the pit bull advocacy army. Who are the generals? Jane Berkey, heiress, literary agent, owner of the Animal Farm Foundation and its subsidiary the National Canine Research Council headed by Karen Delise. Berkey's money funds pit bull advocacy on the highest levels through grants and subsidies. Ledy Vankavage, head of the legal department at Best Friends Animal Society. Best Friends lobbies anywhere that BSL exists or is being considered. Ms. Vankavage is also a board member of the Animal Farm Foundation. How do these people sleep at night? What kind of soap do they use to wash the blood off their hands?"Scorched earth included excuses made by new pit bull advocate, Victoria Stilwell who is quoted as saying: “We’ve got to look at behavior, not breed.”
Scorched Earth also notes that Stilwell has no training in animal behavior.
That might explain her on camera, for fame and money intervention of a moron and his intact presa canario. I'm going to spoil it for everyone. Before you even watch the video, know that after this episode aired, the still intact presa canario attacked someone in a parking lot outside the owner's condo. Also note that in the video she did think breed played a role in the dangerousness of a dog. Also note that for all her tsk tsking and eye rolls to the camera, she feels it's better to allow the intact presa to stay with the moron than to have it put down.
Read here how Stilwell's training as an actress in no way prevented an idiot from allowing a fighting dog to attack an innocent person.
I'm guessing that it is on the merits of this video that Stilwell was voted into the pit bull advocacy army.
Thank you Scorched Earth!
Why would any fighting breed dog owner submit to muzzling their Presa, pit, whatever? That would make the dog safe.
ReplyDeletePffft, you ask for too much. I assure you, Casper's owner had a sad when he found out Casper's nuts were a thing of the past.
I watched the video with Molly Darden and Colleen Lynn. I find it disgusting that Molly firmly states nobody can identify a pit bull then turns around and tells Lulu's story of woe. How she got this tiny generic puppy and it grew into a PIT BULL she couldn't handle.
Yep, she called it a PIT BULL, but hey, they don't exist right? I'm sure she never ran a DNA test on it.
If she ever reads this, I'd like to say, "I thought it was all in how your raise them...bitch *smile*."
So she's proven, without even trying that it's NOT "all in how you raise them" and YOU CAN identify a pit bull dog.
Everyone can identify a pit bull except pit nutters - unless they are getting free pit bull stuff.
ReplyDeleteReferring to this, Rump.
ReplyDeletehttp://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/segment/pit-bull-stigma-abandoned-dogs/515b26d62b8c2a17ca0000cb
I'm a few minutes in and already hearing the nanny dog thing (which Colleen handled well), and now Molly Darden is speaking against generalizations in general. Yeah, she is making generalizations about generalizations ;)
DubV,
ReplyDeletePit nutters pretty much talk in circles.
It's not a pit bull unless, like Orangedog says, it includes free or discounted shit.
You can't identify a pit bull unless you go to the pro shit bull websites bitching about how BSL is so unfair to their mauling machines and the all too common pit bull dog fan boy sites, WITH PICTURES OF PIT BULLS, spreading all the pit bull propaganda including the ludicrous nanny dog myth, dog fighters culled the human aggressive shit, etc, ad nauseam.
You know the people like Carla Ann Thomas, such an outstanding citizen with 3 animal cruelty charges, and one dead non-pit dog (that we know of), recently ejected by the AKC for reasons we don't know...people like that.
Then there's people like the neighbors of pit bull fighting dogs and victims of pit bull fighting dogs, sane people, and Colleen Lynn who have to deal with idiots like the Canine Research Council, which is just another pit nutter propaganda machine under the guise of a "research council" and the other 2 pro pit idiots in that debate. I agree, she did handle them well. It's not difficult since any claim that pit bulls are "safe" is overshadowed by the blood and violence where pit bull dogs are very eager and willing instigators and participants. MORE THAN ANY OTHER BREED.
The disturbing thing about the debate I just saw was that pit nutters still regurgitate the nanny dog bullshit. They think they can still make the claim unless someone uncovers a statement from king dog fighter John Colby saying, "Pit bulls are not nanny dogs." They continue to regurgitate the "nanny dog" statement, even when the pit bull breed is the top killer of children by dog.
That's why it's Schrodinger's Pit Bull. It's a Pit depending on whether or not there is random free shit. ;)
ReplyDeleteOh, and there were a few more attempts at "Pit Bull Math" where they read the statistics wrong so as to fit into their worldview. Unfortunately, the only stat that matters (and that they have no answer for) is 11 out of 11.
ReplyDelete11 deaths by Pit Bull TYPE dogs
0 deaths by "all dogs bite" dogs
But a (40 lb) Pomeranian once killed a baby.
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ReplyDeleteOrangedog,
ReplyDeleteI just call them pit bulls. Pit bull owners call them pit bulls. If you wonder how I can identify them so well it's because I've been on pit bull fanboy websites. It's very well documented what a pit bull dog looks like.
It's not just pit bull math, it's pit bull nutter logic. Just a vicious circle of shit logic.
The vet brought up the DNA tests as a check on breed ID, without realizing that those tests aren't accurate. They should be trying to visually determine mixed breeds with registered parentage. Vets aren't necessarily trained in research techniques however (although a minority are), and for that reason it is odious when they are carte blanche cited as experts in all things animal related.
ReplyDeleteThe thing the vet and other's parroted about not being able to exactly ID all pits just pushing things back one level. A series of questions would then be: what percentage of fatal/disfiguring attacks are caused by dogs that could reasonably be identified as a pit bull? what percentage of dogs in the general population could be reasonably identified as a pit bull? how do these two percentages compare? based upon this comparison, are you at increased risk if you adopt or are around a dog that could be reasonably identified as a pit bull?
DubV,
ReplyDeleteYou're right. There is no guarantee and I seriously doubt those DNA tests can be used in court. From what I've heard, the procedure itself is flawed and I believe they even have a disclaimer about the breed identification.
Here's one of their FAQs
Does Wisdom Panel® test for “Pit-bull”?
The term "Pit-bull" is a bit of a misnomer and does not refer to a single, recognized breed of dog, but rather to a genetically diverse group of breeds which are associated by certain physical traits. Pit-bull type dogs have historically been bred by combining guarding type breeds with terriers for certain desired characteristics – and as such they may retain many genetic similarities to the likely progenitor breeds and other closely related breeds.
Due to the genetic diversity of this group, Mars Veterinary™ cannot build a DNA profile to genetically identify every dog that may be visually classified as a Pit-bull. When these types of dogs are tested with the Wisdom Panel®, we routinely detect various quantities of the component purebred dogs including the American Staffordshire terrier, Boston terrier, Bull terrier, Staffordshire Bull terrier, Mastiff, Bullmastiff, Boxer, Bulldog, and various other terriers. Additionally, there are often other breeds outside of the guard and terrier groups identified in the mix depending on each dog’s individual ancestry.
-----
Dog fighters bred dangerous dogs with other dangerous dogs. They were not concerned necessarily with purity of the breed itself, just a dog that could kill.
Here's a cute "non-pit bull dog" named Baby Hercules:
http://photogallery.wisdompanel.com/photos/profile/2184.html
Tell me that ain't a fucking pit bull!
Here's her comment:
"I recieved nothing but COMPLAINTS FROM NEIGHBORS etc. because Herk looked like a "pitbull". I got DNA done to find out that he is NOT a pit. He is Great Dane, Bull Terrier and boxer mix! THANK YOU=)
Baby Hercules' ancestry contains a minor amount of Great Dane, Bull Terrier and Boxer"
-----
No shit, really? I'm not surprised she received nothing but complaints. LOL! That has to be one of the ugliest pit bull dogs I've ever seen! OMFG!
People hear DNA test and they think it DNA fingerprinting similar to what is used in forensics. It is very different and not nearly as accurate, as can be seen.
ReplyDeleteYup, I thought the same thing until I actually read a little about the test. The canine DNA tests work best for pure breed dogs. I may run mine through just for fun.
ReplyDeleteRegarding the DNA tests.
ReplyDeleteHere is a perfect video with a dog- a Purebred Champion Am Staff and his DNA results-
This sums up the "accuracy" of the Canine DNA tests
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a4CDvK868w
As for watching the video with Victoria Stillwell, there is not enough Mylanta and Prozac on the planet for me to endure something like that.
PS to the above post-
ReplyDeletePlease note in the Am Staff video description the owner identifies the dog as a
"Savvy is a purebred American Pit Bull Terrier / American Staffordshire Terrier (dual UKC / AKC registered)"
This story is all over the Internet and TV right now. When I kept hearing Xena referred to as just a "puppy" with no hazard at a breed guess, I just had a feeling what I was going to end up seeing with this little autistic child.
ReplyDeletehttp://m.now.msn.com/xena-the-warrior-puppy-adopted-by-jonny-hickey-autistic-boy
Sure enough. Stunt pitting reaches new lows.
There is a huge diversity of appearance because (pit) bulldogs were never bred for their appearance but only for their performance at the one and only thing for which they have ever been bred. They can range in size from -20 lbs to the Italian mastiff mix giants. There phenotype can range from very terrier to very bulldog. Guess what? You can easily tell any of them from other breeds if you have seen enough bulldogs from across their appearance spectrum. It's not rocket science, it's just experience. I would expect any pitiot worthy of the breed to have read everything they could get there hands on including those books published by the sporting fancy. Can't identify one? They are lying.
ReplyDeleteTS, Dawn did a blog post about this:
ReplyDeletehttp://cravendesires.blogspot.com/2011/06/find-pit-bull-part-two.html
Here are some more blogs on the DNA tests.
http://www.mnn.com/family/pets/blogs/dog-breed-tests-do-they-really-work
http://news.vin.com/VINNews.aspx?articleId=23206
One author alludes to something I'd read before about these tests, they are very crude and rely on the fact that dog breeds are a closed gene pool. The test can much more accurately identify some breeds that are both old and highly inbred than they can others. And they used AKC dogs to build their profiles so it can't identify a purebred springer spaniel bred in Australia. And they allude to the fact that show and working lines of some breeds have diverged widely.
They've developed separate tests for purebreds, designer 50-50% crosses and mixes.
If you're doing the designer dog test they want you to tell them what cross its supposed to be.
If you test a purebred dog with a purebred test and it comes up pure bred, other mixes will show up if you test it with the mixed breed test.
The mars company is trying to prevent people from retesting their dogs for accuracy - they evidently are trying to identify dogs that have already been tested, then the results from the first test will be used as a check for the second test! This both prevents consumers from doing their own accuracy check and makes Mars look more accurate without doing anything to improve the test.
It is like fortune telling, tell me all about yourself first, and then I'll magically tell you something about you.
And certain less popular breeds turn up a lot. Tons of tibetan spaniels and Ibizan hounds and Glen of Imaal and norfolk terriers seem to have gotten around, big time.
UC Davis Veterinary Genetics Laboratory is developing a profile for fighting line pit bulls using DNA from fight bust dogs if responding law enforcement choose to send it to them. Ledy is foursquare against developing a pit bull profile and UC davis has promised not to use their information for BSL.
http://blog.dogsbite.org/2010/10/dna-paradox-hired-gun-ledy-vankavage.html
pit bull advocate dawn capp aka chako.org proving DNA tests are worthless.
ReplyDeleteSnack, I'm surprised that the DNA test companies don't ask for a picture of the dog.
ReplyDeleteI found a site where they actually submitted dogs of known heritage, including mixes of known parentage.
ReplyDeletehttp://news.vin.com/VINNews.aspx?articleId=23206
It is interesting, but I'd like to see more studies like this and a larger sample.
Long story short, the DNA tests aren't the silver bullet nutters squawk about.
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ReplyDeleteIn this blog post, scorchedearth presents an emerging nutter trend:
ReplyDeleteclaim that all of this dog behavior and the stats are Soooo complex that we must listen to "experts" of their choosing. Yes, of course, it is all sooo complicated in a way that you can't pen down that we must all bow to your superior experience.
They can't pin down this usually because the holes in it will be seen once it is made concrete.
It's a bullshit exercise: you disagree with experts and this is soooo complex that only experts can understand it. too bad when they explain their reasoning it doesn't make sense.
So, the vets and trainers speak of dogs with their own framing and talk of complexity (when much of science is about distilling complicated things down to a few factors that can be understood), but then that intersects with the larger framing of what they say within society.
So, these vets and other experts give us their take on dogs AND then give society advise. In other areas, it is considered bad form to mix advocacy with an intellectual pursuit. The reason for this is obvious.
DubV,
ReplyDeleteThe education pro pit bull experts give is completely useless.
They want to educate the people who don't own pit bull dogs. That does nothing to prevent the harassment, aggression, and attacks by pit bulls and their dumb ass owners. I almost forgot, the pro pit experts want to "educate" us and give pit bull owners free and discounted shit.
It boggles my mind how this has gone on for so long.
Molly Darden mentions a Yorkshire Terrier attack, as if everyone is well aware of this. I went looking online for said attack, and found a story from a tabloid.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/10329798.Dog_attack_leaves_Blackburn_boy__9__afraid_to_go_out/
http://newsiclenews.blogspot.com/2013/04/yorkshire-terrier-attack-on-boy-9.html
I hope she isn't serious that this is the attack that sent a boy to the hospital.
DubV, the only stat they need to know is 11 out of 11. 100%
ReplyDeleteSo simple even a nutter can understand.
Oh, can't wait until the Yorkie attack is disseminated to the nutter army. I bet I'll be seeing it in the comments sections soon right along side "A Pomeranian once killed a baby."
ReplyDeleteI always wonder if these morons have ever seen a picture of the 40 lb "Pomeranian" or do they just regurgitate everything they get from their Pit pusher leaders. Obviously, that's a rhetorical question. ;)
I bet the Yorkie attack becomes "A Yorkie once killed a child."
It already has been picked up by the nutter nation. Senior Social Media writer, Laura Goldman, has posted the story on ilovedogs.com.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ilovedogs.com/2013/04/yorkie-bite-sends-boy-to-hospital/#.UX55-aLkp6t
http://www.ilovedogs.com/2012/01/i-love-dogs-writer-receives-pet-blogging-honor/#.UX56PqLkp6s
In the Huffpost Live Interview, "Leroy's Mom" links to the ilovedogs website, quoting this vicious, fictitious Yorkie attack.
no hater claims that yorkies can't be aggressive and bite. but there are a lot of differences between yorkies and pits. obviously, a yorkie can't slaughter a sheep or even a lamb. a yorkie won't chew through the fence to attack the neighboring teacup poodle. a yorkie doesn't leap out of a second story window to attack the beagle walking the down street. a yorkie can't send 5 cops to the hospital...
ReplyDeletebut maybe the biggest difference between yorkies and pits is their owners:
“Both the owner of the dog and the parent of the child that was bitten agreed that the dog should be destroyed.”
there is no place in society for this yorkie.
In this blog post, scorchedearth presents an emerging nutter trend:
ReplyDeleteclaim that all of this dog behavior and the stats are Soooo complex that we must listen to "experts" of their choosing. Yes, of course, it is all sooo complicated in a way that you can't pen down that we must all bow to your superior experience.
They can't pin down this usually because the holes in it will be seen once it is made concrete.
It's a bullshit exercise: you disagree with experts and this is soooo complex that only experts can understand it. too bad when they explain their reasoning it doesn't make sense.
So, the vets and trainers speak of dogs with their own framing and talk of complexity (when much of science is about distilling complicated things down to a few factors that can be understood), but then that intersects with the larger framing of what they say within society.
So, these vets and other experts give us their take on dogs AND then give society advise. In other areas, it is considered bad form to mix advocacy with an intellectual pursuit. The reason for this is obvious.
this is the best comment i've seen in a long time. it really does cut to the heart of the matter. where people who pursue truth and understanding of the world through science, the pit bull apologists are going in the opposite direction. they seem to be setting themselves up in the world of magic and superstition like priests and shamans.
note to the 20 yr old idiot's girl friend: RUN AWAY!
ReplyDeletei can't stop watching this stilwell video. mind blowing in every way. so sad that she thinks cutting off those testicles will go a long way towards fixing the problem. STILWELL hasn't heard of the (at least) TWO gripping mutants that killed their OWNERS shortly after being neutered. stilwell actually had the brains to see some of it (selling a presa to an 18 old) but she missed so many opportunities. WHY would she argue in favor of this idiot keeping this mutant on steroids. WHY didn't she ask this clown to define the drive in this thing that he values? how exactly does he plan to channel that drive?
i hope that i get to read about casper killing or maiming this punk. destroying the condominium and putting his girl friend and neighbors at risk. forcing his neighbors to endure that smell, depreciating their property values. i'd like to know how this ends, and hopefully it's in the hospital guarded by a cop.
regarding the tour of urine, i just spent a couple at a motel where my next door neighbors had a NEUTERED rottweiler. one morning i watched from my room while they walked him outside. in the span of less than 5 minutes and less than 100 feet, he lifted his 18 times. i counted them. and that was only the time that he was within my view.
VICTORIA STILWELL coming to pit nutter blogspot soon! great find snack. i added her comment about presas being BRED for fighting and inherently difficult and dangerous to the experts and linked to your blog post, although i know it is stretch to consider her an expert.
i also posted a link to your blog post on vickie's facebook page ;-)
ReplyDeleteI see on the video comments someone arguing that Casper is not a Bully breed, he's a Molloser. Technically true, but don't Presas have lotsa Pit in them along with Mastiff? Either way, a highly dangerous breed.
ReplyDeleteIt sounds like his thug-life owner has rich parents who are fighting the condo association to allow their weaponized dog to stay.
pit bulls are not terriers, they are bulldogs, they are mastiffs they are molossers.
ReplyDeleteThis says the presa canario, even the ones from Spain today are a reconstructed breed. Geez, look what is in these things:
ReplyDeleteThese breeds may have included the Bullterrier, the American Pit bull Terrier, the Great Dane, the Neapolitan Mastiff, the Fila Brasileiro, the American Bulldog, the English Bulldog, the Bullmastiff, the Spanish Mastiff, the Doberman, the Dogue de Bordeaux, the Spanish Alano and the Perro de Ganado Majorero.
http://www.sanderskennels.com/presas-canarios/breed-standard.html
DubV said...
ReplyDeleteSnack, I'm surprised that the DNA test companies don't ask for a picture of the dog.
LOLOL!
"In other areas, it is considered bad form to mix advocacy with an intellectual pursuit. The reason for this is obvious."
!!!!!
LOL Dawn, posting on vickie's page. I hope she sees it!
i am obsessing on this case a little bit.
ReplyDeletethe punk kid is judgment proof but his daddy and mommy are not. i am a little bit surprised the parents are indulging this punk's fantasies of being some kind of dangerous dog owner.
i can't imagine going into $80K debt to save a dangerous dog. wow. either too much income or not wrapped tight.
this old case was in the news in late january
court records
80K must be chump change to Thug-life's parents.
ReplyDeleteHola amig@ bloguer@: veo que tienes un blog genial, con buenos e interesantes datos.
ReplyDeleteQuisiera compartir contigo y tus lectores más información relevante sobre la raza de perro Alano Español (Spanish Alano) y un video de imagenes del Alano Español.
Espero que te guste mi espacio de "Perros y Gatos" y dejame un comentario si te apetece
Saludos desde España