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pitbulls tend to get passed around a lot among the retards that like beer , pizza and brawling. at least the punks idiot uncle had enuf brain cells left to dirt-napp the mutant bitch. love it when lady karma's bitch turns around to bite buttheads on the butt.
I named a bunny vicious as a joke about stupid pit bull names. If there ever was a clue about why people get pits its the names. No one names their pit something normal, its always some shit like "problem" or "felony" or "patron". jesus christ.
the punk thot it a funny story that his cat was almost killed and his pit-bitch got its eyeball scratched. what a turd . of course it was all down to his mom being inattentive and letting the mutant out . fucking stupid hideous looking white trash.
punk doesnt think his tattoos will keep him from getting jobs , lol, @ self-deluded losers . chris ten years down the road will still be a fucked up kid without pit or a pot to piss in . nice tattoos though , best thing he ever did . lol.
obtw chris , learn to make your bed , it looks like a pitbulls breakfast.
yes he is and i love reading comment from pitterphools cuz they cant help advertizing their bad breeding and ignorance but i usually dont have to look at them too.
i agree with with you rumpelstiltskin! i gave his video a thumbs up. he is not only telling us what mutants are like, he is telling us what pit nutters are like. good times.
but i would like to know what college/university is allowing this fucktard to take up precious classroom space.
Someone should grab the video before the poster takes it down.
One of the easiest ways is to simply add the word kiss in front of the video url and you can save a video.
I think this is definitely a pit bull owner classic video, worthy of some sort of award even. Does Craven have a yearly video award, if not perhaps its time!
hes only being halfway honest cuz he doesnt realize or care that its not just his idiot buddies that might see his scummy vid . i gave him the thumbs down as though he was in a pit with a pit at his throat .
just want to point out that its not ok to promote dogs just because they are supposedly not human-aggressive . you hurt someones pet and chances are you are hurting the owner as well , maybe even a pit owner although unlikely a pitter cares too much as in the case of the above punk.
well yeah , someone just wanting a pet , a companion to give and receive love would have to be a bit thick to get a pitbull. its a bit like getting a tiger when u just want a cat .
it didnt just die , it was dirt-napped for killing another dog and for biting its then fucktard owner. sure the owner was a fucktard for taking the dog in the first place and thinking he might be ok caged with another mutant(of a kind).....but at least he did the right , even noble thing in the end. live by the tooth , die by injection , drug , knife or bullet , it matter little as long it puts an end to it .
dogs are definitely annoying, barking shit factories. the perfect species to accompany humankind toward oblivion. who can explain primates coming down from the trees and allying themselves with wolf-like creatures only to eons later mutate into pitnutters and their undogs.
is there a town in north america that doesnt have little tattooed tossers and crazed freaky dingbats and their fourlegged unfriends? please tell where and if they have B.L.S.
OBTW : the term "little tattooed tossers" does not refer to little league ball players , rather backward capped and backward thinking cretins of the baby pit-nutter persuasion.
UGH - about the breastfeeding pug. That really made me nauseous.
I agree with Dawn about DHU. I can TOTALLY see why peole don't like them and it is outrageous that people assume that everyone must be OK with theirs.
Jerry Seinfeld did a bit where he said if you came from outer space to study this planet, and you saw two different species walking down a sidewalk together, and one species was carrying the other species' shit in a bag, which species would you assume was in charge?
yea , but i love the show "life after humans" becuz it recognizes that we humans are like a slow cancer thats killing off its host animal. humans like to think they are above other species and deserve to have our way but i see the human race as two legged mutants in many ways far worse than the four legged ones.
I think if you did a demographic profile of pit bull owners, you would find that kids like this represent a majority.
I also think that its losers like this BREEDING the majority of pit bulls we see in the community. I notice the one topic pit bull fanatics all like to avoid is the topic of pit bull breeders. This young man admits his pit bull had bitten people and killed other animals, but then said she was "great with kids". Why do you suppose his uncle wanted her? I am guessing he thought he could breed her and make some quick cash.
Let's see....do you think there are any Irish Water Spaniel owners like this kid out there? Do we have any tatooed English Setter owners living in filth, bragging about their dog attacking people and killing animals on YouTube? Anyone ever see a guy like this walking a collie?
This young creep represents the source of the pit bull problem....its people like him who are PRODUCING THESE DOGS! And there is not one person in pit bull advocacy who can deny this simple truth.
I completely agree with you and did not buy my pitbull I almost ran it over in a parking lot. I dont encourage irresponsible breeding and it is the reason that almost ever cage at the shelter is full, but seriously it's not the dogs...it the f*ed up people like that skinny excuse for a man in the video who create this problem , bc they are small and think a animal they can't control because they lack the mental and apparently physical capability to do so, will solve their problem.
I've seen a lot of gross things following this issue, but the breast feeding bitch is the worst. Nearly lost my breakfast.
I agree with snarky on the cancer metaphor. In fact, I was wondering how much trouble I'd get into for starting a CHU blog, where C stood for child. Seems like the same issues we've got with Pits we've got with kids. Listen to the mama thugs defend their brats when they get hauled off for randomly murdering someone.
Branwyne i never met an english setter or owner i didnt like and its mostly down to the breeding and good breeding cuts both ways . nice person plus a nice dog eguals a victim for an asshole with a shit-bull.
I'm gonna enter a dissident voice here. I think there is something seriously wrong with humans who don't like other animals. I reject everyone who blanketly hates dogs...which BTW doesn't mean I expect everyone to love my dogs.
Pit bulls aren't dogs. They are (as snarky says) four-legged genetically engineered mirrors of human mutants. PBs are as much like dogs as Kony is like real humans.
The only real, big, huge problem on this planet is that there are way too many of us...and that we behave like humans. It's also a real, big, huge problem that so many mothers are raising children like this entitled piece of shit in this video.
Which brings me to Cazz's comment. I don't inflict my dogs on people who don't like dogs. It would be nice if all these anti-barkers and dog-haters did the same with their children -- including not raising them to be entitled princes and princesses and aside from that as imbecilic as this idiot in the video. Because it's these entitled princes and princesses YOU raised -- you who think that you alone are entitled to use of this planet -- that are inflicting barking and pit bulls on all their neighbors.
Maybe if y'all were, yourselves, a bit less entitled, we'd have less of these disgusting stupid children and barking dog neighbors around?
Snarky, you are right....when I think of all the bird dog owners I know, they are all incredibly nice people. I just took my dog for a walk, and we passed a house with a field bred springer spaniel...she was off leash and barked at us, but never left her owners side. He was a nice guy in his thirties, we chatted for a moment. I also passed a guy walking a border collie mix, very nice, smiled, said hello, told me I had a "good looking dog". Lots of nice, repectful, friendly people own nice, non-aggressive, dogs.
There is definitely a correlation between dog breeds and the types of people that own them. I don't think you will see any Portuguese Water Dog owners flashing gang signs, with the waist band of their pants just above their crotch. And the reality is that there are many, many breeds of dogs that very seldom end up in shelters. The "homeless dog crisis" is pretty much a regional phenomenon, and generally limited to specific breeds and mixes common to the area, byber fads, like chiweenies and, universally, pit bulls. So while some rural southern shelters may get heelers hounds, labs, and their mixes, they will RARELY see a purebred sheltie, and probably never see a flat coated retreiver.
Nice people, who love animals, do not breed fighting dogs, and there are many breeders of many different breeds who manage to be great stewards of their breed and are able to keep them out of the hands of bad owners and certainly out of the U.S. shelter system. the pit bull situation is fairly hopeless, since breed stweardship doesn't exist.
P.S. If you can't empathize with animals, it's impossible that you can really empathize with -- and understand, and care well for -- a human neonate. Human neonates are non-verbal, primitive, helpless, with brains that will only start to outpace various non-human animal species between three and six years of age (depending on the non-human animal you compare them with). 'Loving' it because it's your own and because it will eventually become a cognitive human doesn't mean you can understand and meet its needs while it's still in that helpless, pre-verbal, primitive developmental stage. If you lack the curiosity to understand what an animal is about, then you lack curiosity to really understand the pre-verbal, primitive, helpless human neonate too. You just do this or that, whatever some popular books tell you. The child will be FANTASTIC just simply because it's the narcissistic extension of you.
No wonder the present generation is so unconcerned when their consumer article (the dog) barks incessantly or their fashion item (the pit bull) kills anything but them.
what would get if you put a horrible person with a setter with a nice person with shitbull? two very confused dogs not knowing whether to lick you or rip you to death.
no seriously,.. i was at the lights waiting and an elderly woman pulled up with a bishon fris . i motioned for her to turn down the music as i hate rap musick and instead she flashed me the double up-yours . i nearly died from surprise until i read the bumper sticker ..... MY SECOND DOG IS A RED-NOSE SHIT-BULL.
Sputnik, I don't think these folks are saying that they hate every single dog without exception and would like to take steps to eradicate all dogs from the planet. That strong of a statement would be perverse. Also, I don't think they are stating they hate all animals. I have had positive and negative experiences with dogs. In my case, the positive has far outweighed the negative, and so I consider myself a dog lover. I can totally understand how someone with a different set of experiences could come to the conclusion that, in general, they dislike dogs. Stating that you dislike (even hate) cats, cows, horses, squid, or other animals does not generally illicit the response these folks get. I don't think it is reasonable to expect them to continually caveat their statements to death (such as "I hate dogs in general, but recognize their are fine dogs that I might like if I gave them a chance and that would not cause me trouble....).
lets see, do we have any tatted to rat-shit, setter owners living in filth , bragging about their setters killing other bird dogs and biting fellow church members on the ass?
when was the last time you saw golden retriever owner walking out into traffic trying to flag down a red-neck pig to sell oral sex to ?
shitbulls really arent like the normal dogs ive known who could never be made to attack other dogs or people but they are a lot like the violent and crazy people i seem to meet almost daily . peops like the baby pitnutter in the video who is surely as common as those green bags of dog shit you see almost everywhere. so yeah , i have to agree that mutants are not real dogs but are a kind of pig engineered to please their pig owners.
@DubV said... Sputnik, I don't think these folks are saying that they hate every single dog without exception...
Take a real look at the DHU blog. The woman writing it is a full-blown narcissist (amateur diagnosis here). At some point, Animal Uncontrol wrote a post pointing out that it's okay to complain, but you also need to take action -- write letters and such. AU included lots of useful tips about what we can do.
DHU came back with a truly venomous post. She said all she wants to do is complain but not do anything, and who the fuck is AU to suggest differently? She said AU was trying to drive traffic to his/her own blog by mentioning hers...and various other delusions of grandeur fantasies. She said 'at least I don't post here about how to knit booties for a service dog like you do at AU'.
Then when AU didn't respond by getting into the fight mode narcissists love so much, DHU trotted over to his yard to piss there -- more than once. She left a number of comments as yet trying to start a fight and win.
The 'I'm not against service dogs' is likely the narcissist's bow to a slap in the face from public opinion. The narcissist realizing her public self didn't go down so well.
This person is, if she has children, raising them to be entitled pieces of shit just like the kid in the blog -- is my guess -- since she is, in her own way, not much different from this PB-kid in the video as far as the narcissism goes.
I stick adamantly by my comments about human neonates as mammalian animal young in their first years, whom you can only raise well if you are willing to understand general mammalian developmental processes and needs. S/he who feels no empathy with animals will only see that animal human baby as an extension of their narcissistic self. Sometimes it'll maybe work out okay, but there's a reason we're in so much trouble now with what's being raised by this kind of mother. There is also a reason that child abuse and animal abuse are so closely related statistically. It is apparently much easier for those who feel no empathy with an animal to also abuse a human child.
And again: the main problem is too many of us -- and maybe consider not reproducing. And if you do, maybe consider that I don't feel like running into your screaming, spoiled children in the restaurant (or any public place) anymore than you want to hear my dog bark.
The people in this discussion not only lost me, but also revolted me, -- yes, YQN, I also mean you -- when they were pleased about a dog being hanged to death. If it comes out that the hanged dog was a pit bull, I won't mourn. But this is because a pit bull presents a life and death danger to everything within at least a five mile radius, besides being extremely insensitive to pain and utterly indifferent to any and all social relations (anything that lives is up for killing).
A normal dog that barks all day is telling that he's extremely lonely and unhappy. I think it's disgusting that people would smile at such an already unhappy animal hanging to death -- no matter their frustration. Comes a point where 'understanding' the frustration stops, because a boundary is crossed. It's been crossed with me.
Everyone else here can and will of course make up their own minds. But I don't at all like seeing a blog that's about mauling, maiming, dismembering and killing attacks being diverted to say 'gee, barking is just as bad, dogs suck in general.' I understand that the barking problem needs addressing -- but if this blog becomes a coalition against dogs and a platform for pure whiners, I'll be...let's just say disappointed and sad.
ive come across full-blown dog haters and they seem to not understand the difference between them and us . most of us have dogs and dont let them bark and crap everywhere and injure and kill things and people. dog haters though, hate all dogs equally and would even keep a pit-bull for killing other dogs if they were not so compulsively opposed to them . i also suspect that pitters are often a type of dog or cat hater because they freely profess their hatred after their pit kills something . these people though , are like that baby pit-nutter above , in that they have no real love for their dogs , they keep them for other reasons .
I wasn't commenting directly about DHU blog, which I haven't read. I was commenting on what I thought were general statements like "I think there is something seriously wrong with humans who don't like other animals." So, it seems we are writing at cross-purposes here. I'll check out the blogs you mentioned as time allows.
"The people in this discussion not only lost me, but also revolted me, -- yes, YQN, I also mean you -- when they were pleased about a dog being hanged to death. If it comes out that the hanged dog was a pit bull, I won't mourn."
I don't hate pit bulls in the sense that I wish to see them injured and to suffer. I "enjoy" videos like justice mule because it represents the aggressor being stopped. It is like the guilty pleasure of watching a scrawny kid catch a bully with a good upper cut and leveling him. I couldn't watch a video where a pit bull was hung anymore than I could one where a mule jumped a fence and stomped to death a pit bull that was minding its own business at the time. I view pit bulls as I do Frankenstein's monster. They are still dogs to me, but among the undesirable breeds that would be rare to nonexistent if cooler heads prevailed because they are a net negative for human and dog society.
My four legged partner was attacked by a pit as well. We were both injured, he got the worst of it by a long shot. Up until that day I had no specific thoughts on pits at all, they were just not on my radar. I suspect most folks are the same. Once you see pit bull violence you can never unsee it. This is where public safety advocates come from.
"I "enjoy" videos like justice mule because it represents the aggressor being stopped"
that's is an important distinction. i don't condone violence against pit bulls who are safely contained on their property anymore than i condone hanging the neighbor's dog for barking. i do understand how people can be driven to solve a problem that the system is unable or unwilling to address.
dog lovers, mutant haters unite and fight this scourge of bull-shite . reject the gutless officialdom that would have us living in fear and danger just so the entitled minority can keep their mutants without regard for the rest of us .
april 29 theres nothing like a mutant attack to educate a person on the subject of fighting dogs out there as pets for the great un-washed . its really irksome to be told by some brainless dingbat or baby pit-nutter or knowitall snot-yuppy that we need educating on the subject of shitbulls, when we already have , in this harsh unforgiving way. fuck em .
THE GREAT UNWASHED not sure exactly where i heard that but it stuck in my mind i guess. every town has em , raggedy ass bizzarre folk hanging around mooching for their next fix of whatever it is . dont buy them food though cuz that will just enrage them, cold hard cash is what they need. if you have a heart that bleeds just remember what these folk breed ..... pit-bulls and baby pit-nutters in need.
First of all that person should be put down and his friend and his friends uncle. Second I work at a shelter and that retard is the exact reason we are forced to euthanize so many pits and pit mixes and why we do thorough background screening before we allow pit adoptions. That being said I grew up with Irish setters, pointers, retrievers, a chow beagle mix, a whippet, border collie, cockapoo, bull dog, boxer lab, Pitts, and German Shepards. I have never not had a dog in my life. The smallest dog we've owned is a 4lb chihuahua and the largest was a 160lb male Shepard. I have encountered many different dog personalities and traits than most. Each breed has signature attributes that make them desirable and indesirable at times. The only dogs we have owned that have ever bitten (whether a family member or a stranger) have been chihuahua, border collie, and whippet and they were not without their reasons. But I will say this .... I currently have a 60lb unaltered male pit whose name is Benson. We found him in a parking lot he only weighed 20lbs at ~6months of age and had ever worm imaginable, along with mange and several life threatening illnesses. The week we found him we were told he would not survive and that was 2 years ago. We brought him into our house that already had 2 other large grown dogs. Since that time he has been an amazing addition to our lives. I am not crazy. I have NO tattoos. I do have pierced ears ;). I don't have crazy streaks in my hair. I graduated with honors and a biology degree from USC. I worked as a Nursery Supervisor throughout college where my Pitt bull was a regular and a favorite ... Especially around this time of year because the kids loved to dress him up in costumes. I am the daughter of a doctor and a landscape architect, who is on her local humane society board. I recently became an Aunt to a sweet boy whom both my dogs adore. My pit bull sleeps in my bed (normally with more room than I or my husband have). So I guess I am one of these nutters that owns a mutant dog. But when I walk down the street with my dog do I left random strangers run up to either of my dogs? No. Because being a responsible dog owner means that I am cautious. My dogs are both over 60lbs and Benson's ancestors were bred to bring down bulls 10x his size. Could he knock someone over? Yes! Can he jump 5 feet in the air? Yes! But I know this and have trained him to act appropriately. I do not let strange dogs run up to him or large men approach me thay he doesnt know when I am walking him, because he is the most loyal dog I ever met and would protect me to the death. Would I be proud of him if someone attacked me and he but their hand off ? Hell yes! But would I ever left myself get in that position... Much less post a YouTube video about it? No! My dog is a lover because he was raised that way and in more cases of dog attacks than not there are underlying circumstances. If you threaten any animal, it will protect itself. And I know you all think I'm crazy but I am exposed to new pitbulls everyday at the shelter and it sickens me when I see what they have been subjected to.
I truly feel for all of those people and animals that have harmed or even killed by pit bulls. It is terrible and I would never forgive myself if my dog did this. I hope more parents teach their children to approach dogs with caution and always ask permission before petting a dog. I have picked up several pit bulls off the street and taken them to shelters and never been attacked .... I have been around enough dogs in my life to respect their size, nature and body language. I have no doubt that any dog is capable of attacking and the larger their size the greater the potential for damage, but seriously, do you think ownership and training have nothing to do with it? Half the dogs in the shelter I work at are 80+ lb labs who were never taught so much as sit or stay as a puppy and end up being so destructive the family just gives up on them. All because they didn't train them properly and spend time with them expending their crazy amount of energy. I think that if more restrictions were placed on who could own what dogs and who could breed them, things would be very different.
The kid in that video shouldn't be aloud to own any dog. He clearly can't afford it if his house is I'm foreclosure and he can't offer it a stable living environment. His ignorance speaks for itself. But please DO NOT lump me in any category with that kid.
erin , i do agree that "that person",the baby pit-nutter? should be put down , but i find that a strange comment coming from an honor student , daughter of a doctor and professional mother. i do believe you when you say the mutant sleeps with you and hubby and hogs the bed. lol
erin , my dog has been trained as a "dingbat alert dog " and when i just turned on my computer he pricked his ears , howled and tried to pull me away from the computer. i shit you not .
Benson isn't altered because he has masticatory myositis (called MMM) and extraocular myositis (EOM). It is most common in King Charles and Goldens, but any dog can have it. It is a condition that results in his immune system attacking his masseter and temporal muscles, causing inflammation and destruction. Luckily it is treatable with prednisone (yes my pit is on steroids), but the damage that occurs is irreversible. We had a wonderful vet who conferred with experts that believe male dogs with the condition have better prognosis when they remain unaltered. The research we have found is inconclusive, but we trust the vet we saw for the problem because they had seen many cases before. The side affects of the drug make him inhale water and bloat, but we keep him very active so he doesn’t become overweight. We have tried to taper down his dosage; unfortunately this has always caused relapses, which are very painful to him. He is currently on a very small maintenance dose every other day and seems to feel great, but we always look for warning signs of a flair-up. He still has some facial muscle but will never look as boxy as he should. This combined with the fact that he was extremely malnourished as a puppy means that he is on the small side… he doesn’t lack strength (or energy) though. Long story short… my Husband and I decided not to alter him unless we had reason to. Our boxer-lab is fixed and all of our family dogs are as well. We keep him in our yard which is fenced. We don’t leave our dogs out without supervision for long periods of time, so Benson running off to find a mate isn’t a problem. We keep him on leash in public and at dog parks incase he did find a lady he liked. But he has also never humped anything in his life. He is now almost 3yrs old and I think we are out of the woods in that respect.
@snarky… We lived in a city setting at our last home and not far from a bus stop. My husband worked in a different city during the week and I was home alone M-F. Homeless people and other creeps would come in the middle of the night and sit on our porch swing or come up to me asking for money, etc when I would be in my yard. Neither of my dogs would let these people near me and all I had to do was leash either or both of them and go out on my porch and the people got the message. However my dogs know (just like any animal) when there is a threat or not. I could have 25 people in my house and my dogs would be mingling and enjoying the extra attention with 0 issue. I cut his nails, brush his teeth (that’s the future dentist in me), give him shots and have never seen a single sign of aggression. He is my shadow and if I have been running around the house cleaning or what not and finally sit down he typically collapses in my lap. I can’t explain this to someone who doesn’t get it, but a lot of people do get it … he is a lover, but a loyal protector too. I don’t let him jump up on our friends or give them kisses unless they say it is okay and I put both dogs up when I have someone over who is uncomfortable around dogs. I won’t push my dogs on anyone, but I genuinely enjoy coming home to them. And quite frankly I have met more people with less redeeming qualities than most dogs.
I'm not enraged and I see what you see. But I just mean to explain to you that ownership has a lot to do with actions of an animal. And I feel like your opinion is similar to ... "Because you are the offspring of two alcoholics, you will be an alcoholic and do not deserve to exist....sorry about your luck."
The pitbull was bred by people to be lethal to bulls. Any pit today is the result of a lethal design, but it doesnt mean it will always be lethal. Stupid people should not be allowed to own them and stupid people should be educated on how to approach them or avoid them. If you cant just walk a bull down a city street, maybe we should consider who should be allowed to do so with the animal designed to kill one.
Your alcoholic parent analogy is busted, for obvious reasons. Also, you got the breed history mostly wrong. The main reason for the current form/function of a pit bull is to fight other dogs. If origins meant as much as you think on current form, then why not keep gong as far back in evolutionary time as possible to get the real scoop? In that case, a pit bull was actually originally a single-celled organism.
Further, the point isn't that a pit bull must necessarily be dangerous, it is that it is MORE LIKELY to be. Using your drinking theme, not all drunk drivers are equally dangerous. Some that are mildly inebriated are probably still more safe than the average driver, if that mildly inebriated person is being very careful and is an excellent driver in general. However, decisions and laws don't work that way, for obvious reasons. That should explain why the possibility of a safe pit bull shouldn't change too many minds.
Exactly. Just like the child of an alcoholic wont necessarily be an alcoholic ... Just more likely to be.
This conversation won't make me look at my dog differently and chances are it won't adjust your opinion either. I am just exposed to many of these dogs everyday and feel that your view is obscured by your prejudice ... And my only intention was to maybe shift your aim to the people responsible .... Rather than the dog.
I couldn't possibly subject myself to reading your large, paragraph break free, walls of rambling text.
From skimming though, you likely can't predict events based upon cause-and-effects chains well enough to safely keep a power breed. You will be continually surprised by it, is my guess.
Also from skimming, you are basically trying to give us your life story with dogs and pit bulls. Why do you think that reading something from a single person who has a pit bull should modify our stances? I know that personal testimonies like yours are used in commercials all the time, and they work on people because our emotions are often more powerful than our intellects.
Still, it is narcissistic for you to think that your experience should matter to anyone in the face of mountains of evidence that pit bulls are a breed not fit to live near people and pets.
"Exactly. Just like the child of an alcoholic wont necessarily be an alcoholic ... Just more likely to be."
Yes Erin, but this isn't a point in your favor. When making decisions about the future without full knowledge (we never have enough knowledge to fully predict the future, obviously), then you make decisions based upon the probability of various outcomes.
For instance, if I do action X how likely are all possible outcomes and how desirable are each outcome?
This method of decision making is the backbone of an entire field of study related to making good decisions (decision theory).
We don't make decisions based upon mere POSSIBILITY. I could be struck by lightning today. Should I stay in? That shark might not be interested in me. Should I go for a swim with it?
Yes, it is possible for pit bulls to be harmless, but only a fool wants to find out.
"And my only intention was to maybe shift your aim to the people responsible .... Rather than the dog."
This is where your framing, and that of the larger humane community, goes off the tracks.
A dog does not have moral agency and therefore things like blame, fault, responsibility, etc. ring hollow when attached to them. Therefore, it follows that humans are always to blame, and if you can't blame the dog, then the dog and its breed had no part in it.
That is the slight of hand that you are playing or having played on you.
A dog and its breed can very well be a causal factor when it comes to a bad outcome. Whose teeth are biting anyways? Also, the human and their decisions around the dog can contribute to the physics of what actually happened.
That is the conversation about reality that I am interested in having.
The emotional one from the humane orgs is not helping.
I cited my experience because I have and do come in contact with numerous pits on a daily basis and am not basing my stance on news articles about irresponsible pet owners that bite off more than they can chew and pay the price or in the worst cases , other people or animals pay the price. I originally responded to this blog because it bothered me that you saw all pit bull owners as you see this kid in the video, when I just don't see the similarities.
"But I just mean to explain to you that ownership has a lot to do with actions of an animal."
Have you read anything here where someone stated that the owner has ZERO effect?
Erin, two things can be true at once. Pit bulls can be more dangerous on average and also owners can have an influence. In a specific attack, two things can both be true and interact. The owner might stink and the dog might be unsound genetically as well.
You are coming here to educate us with the spin job you've gotten, one that we've heard so many times that we can anticipate the next part of it while reading.
This goes all the way up to top behaviorists and vets. It is hard for nutters to believe, because it sounds good to them, that these educated folks are seeing this incorrectly and that a group of people they met on the internet have figured them out.
Right so shouldn't people on this blog be calling for harsher punishment or better laws regarding irresponsible dog ownership? Instead of getting all excited when a dog is hung and burned? It's sick.
"I cited my experience because I have and do come in contact with numerous pits on a daily basis and am not basing my stance on news articles about irresponsible pet owners that bite off more than they can chew and pay the price or in the worst cases , other people or animals pay the price. I originally responded to this blog because it bothered me that you saw all pit bull owners as you see this kid in the video, when I just don't see the similarities."
Where did you read a universal statement that ALL pit bull owners are like this kid? I didn't see one. All pit bull owners are misguided in some way that causes them to own a pit bull, but they aren't all so bad.
Here's the thing, Erin, experience is not enough. Why would I trust your daily experience and what you have synthesized from it? Personal experience like this can actually be the most misleading. Experience is not enough, you must understand common traps in thinking and how your emotions color your observations and conclusions, among other things.
If experience were so primary, then all 60 year olds would be wiser than all 40 year olds, and it just isn't the case.
It's interesting though that people who seem to learn the least reliable information from their experience are also those most likely to play the experience card to try and get their way.
"Right so shouldn't people on this blog be calling for harsher punishment or better laws regarding irresponsible dog ownership? Instead of getting all excited when a dog is hung and burned? It's sick."
Were you not aware that this blog is several years old, and to get a full sense of its history in terms of writers and commenters, you would need to look around a bit?
I didn't read anything in the original post about dog burning and excitement. I haven't mentioned dog burning and anything positive. You did know that this is a public blog and that views expressed here do not reflect some hive mind, right?
As far as better laws, we do advocate for those, but many of us also feel that tea cup yorkies and fighting breeds should be treated differently. We lose most of the "educated" dog folks with that cruel twist, however.
"Then help me understand your ideas better. What would you do to resolve this?"
1. accurate information and proper framing of this problem, and destruction of dog related propaganda and bad arguments
2. let an informed public make decisions in a democratic process
3. what would I specifically suggest? the best thing that could happen to pit bulls and the pubic is to make their breeding slow to stop. common sense policies that recognize the difference among breeds of dogs should be enacted. first bite is free laws and other ways that dogs and dog owners get away with things should be demolished
erin , i cant understand u rescue dingbats getting so worked up about a mere breed of dog .!!!!!!!!! with all the murderers and diddlers out there preying on our future pit-nutters you should be blogging for the death penalty of diddlers not baby pit-nutters.
I'm thinking your just a tragic accident waiting to happen.
You said, "Neither of my dogs would let these people near me and all I had to do was leash either or both of them and go out on my porch and the people got the message."
You said, "However my dogs know (just like any animal) when there is a threat or not."
First, it's YOUR JOB to protect YOUR DOGS. Don't put them in a situation where they are required to make a life-threatening decision based on your lack of preparedness. If it's true, "It's all in how you raise them", if your pit mauls or kills someone, what should happen?
Second, Pit bulls, because of the reason they are pit bulls, have a lack of discrimination and that could prove fatal for yourself or someone close to you.
You said, "I won’t push my dogs on anyone"
I doubt that! I've read your comments, I don't see modesty about your pit bulls in any of your comments. In fact, I've been reading this blog for some time and I think you've spoken more about your pits in this one thread than I have the entire time I've been posting here.
Also, you have a "boxer-lab" mix. From my experience, it's just another pit bull. There seems to be an awful lot of "lab-boxer" mixes in this world, more than any other mix. Usually, pit nutters love putting the "lab" part first, implying that the mutant is more likely to behave like a lab, than a "boxer". That is until the nanny dog "locks on" to someone's 10 lb. companion. I think pit nutters just like to think pit bulls more closely resemble a lab and they think they can get away with saying that tired phrase "he/she is a lab-boxer mix *self-entitled smile*".
Pit bulls are, by a long shot, the most dangerous breed around. Statistics prove this. If you really want protection, why not ask your parents contribute $15k-25k for a REAL protection dog? Or how about a $20 can of MACE? It would make more sense because, for whatever reason, if your pit goes into "protection mode" unprovoked and even provoked, it could cost you much more and $15k would seem like chump change after that.
In case you do decide to get a real protection dog and not let your self-trained "protector" make decisions for you, any reputable protection dog trainer does not and will not train a pit bull for the purposes of protection.
erins mutant has been trained to be a lover but would defend her to the death.
sure , maybe half of thats true or none of it , either way ive heard it all before . dingbats defending their bad choices in life and expecting others to go along .
Erin, sometimes the pit bull protection dog protects you...
from you. Pit bull owners and pit bull rescue angels end up dead far more frequently that say, Poodle owners, or Beagle owners, or Chihuahua owners. You get the drift here.
Be careful with Benson. Darla Napora thought Gunner was safe too, she trusted him with her life and he ended it.
I would invite Erin to look into exotic pet ownership and the issues surrounding that. People own non-domesticated predatory animals and spend every day around them. They typically say the exact same thing pit owners do (about how their lion or bear is "harmless" because they have been raised lovingly). Do you think their perception of things is any less valid than yours? Of course not. They just have a hard time dealing with what they see each day and how they feel about the animals vs the fact of what the animals are. Animals are unpredictable, and predatory ones can be dangerous to other animals (or humans if they are big enough). Selective breeding helps lessen the risk of death with animals (domestication), but unfortunately pit bulls have been selectively bred to be unpredictably dangerous rather than to be consistently tame.
As far as asking what can be done- the breeding of fighting dogs needs to end. There is not any reason to breed fighting dogs in a society that rejects dog fighting for being inhumane. Making dogs that will subject themselves and others to pain is a terrible thing, it is proof of the depth of human depravity.
my little bird dog has been trained to not like birds but if i ever told him to , boy , he sure would . good thing i dont shoot birds no more and the dog understands this .
Erin is a responsible pit bull owner...who took her unaltered pit bull with an unknown history to her job in a nursery school and allowed the children to dress it up.
Erin is the university educated daughter of a doctor yet can't spell "allowed".
Sorry blogging on your phone can do that. There were several grammatical errors in several blogs. What's your degree in?
@dawn here's an actual scientific article http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1385419/pdf/immunology00137-0065.pdf Testosterone suppresses the immune system. My dog suffers from MMM, which causes immune-mediated inflamation of the facial muscles. Testosterone is produced in the testicles. Castration is the removal of the male reproductive organ. This would allow his immune system to increase its activity. Does that help? Also I was just making a joke about the steroids thing... Thought it may get a laugh ... Sorry.
Skeptifem reminded me on Dude's comment. I re-post it here every few months.
"Count me as a "hater" because of what I love!
I love when communities make public safety a priority. I love the freedom to move about without being menaced by pit bulls. I love when children can play in their own front yards, without the risk of pit bulls in their neighborhoods. I love when a grandmother can go to the mailbox, or garden around her home without being mauled.
I am not a hater for hates sake, but for the love of security and freedom for those least able to defend themselves. I’m a hater of willful ignorance. I’m a hater of lies and deception. I’m a hater of cowards. I’m a hater of depraved indifference. I’m a hater of evil creations. If we lived in a world without depravity and evil, pit bulls would have never come to exist!
I’m a hater out of love and respect for the victims of pit bulls – those who endure the scars without fairness or justice, and those who rest in peace. I’m a hater out of love and respect for all those who will become victims of pit bulls: children, mothers, grandmothers, war heros, and thousand upon thousands of innocent pets.
So long as evil exist, selfishness, cowardice, depravity – everything that constitutes the perverse infatuation and advocacy for dogs created by the scum of the earth, I will steadfastly remain a hater. I am a “hater” out of love - my love for the innocent and my desire to keep them safe."
@rumpel I don't own my dogs for protection but when a scary black man comes on my porch I let him believe he could be lunch. I see no harm in that. If he got close enough to me that my dogs could touch him that's his problem. Do people not respond differently when approached in a threatening manner? Luckily that is not an everyday occurrence. I do protect my dogs, they are trained and vaccinated and not neglected and chained outside my house. They play very well with other dogs because they were socialized properly.
@BB would it have been okay if it had been a different dog breed? And why would the fact that he was unaltered have mattered? I did not pick him up off the street and walk him straight into the nursery.
And I felt the need to list my credentials as well as my lack of tattoos and piercings because people in this blog felt that all pit bull owners are hoodlums and irresponsible dog owners that live in squaller and I just didn't see the similarity.
Pit bull related deaths this year =27 as of yesterday.
Also this is a very interesting article that you may have missed. And, yes, pit bulls are rated 3rd in serious aggression toward unfamiliar dogs, but notice the owner/stranger related aggression.
I don't feel that I have been bragging, but I apologize if it seemed that way. Just stating facts about my background and also personal experience with the breed, that most of you appear to be lacking. We obviously have differing viewpoints, but I appreciate the discussion...especially responses that critique things other than my spelling or background.
If any if you have been attacked by put bulls or any other breeds I am truly sorry to hear that.
The difference is we are controlling the mosquito population but not to much the pit bull population. Where are those mosquito lawyers and mosquito apologists?
bees, spiders, snakes, mosquitoes, hippos, crocodiles, sharks, leopards are all a part of NATURE. you can't compare the west nile deaths to the death by a man made man controlled fighting dog.
But do you seriously walk outside in fear that you will die from pit bulll attack. That is the point I was trying to make. If your children are playing in your front yard they are more likely to be bitten and killed by a mosquito than a pit. I'm not saying there is any comparison in the bite.... But they are not even the most likely breed to attack. I understand wanting to avoid a large breed that you fear, and that is obviously your God given right, but to call for the extinction of an entire breed is ridiculous. How about just the extinction of the irresponsible breeders and those cruel people that enjoy watching animals destroy each other for sport.
We don't keep mosquitoes as pets, we actively try to thwart death by mosquito, there is no apologia for mosquitoes, mosquitoes either kill you or you recover fully usually (there is no life changing mauling by mosquito), and one thing being more dangerous does not make another insignificant (otherwise, the only thing we'd all be worrying about would be asteroid impacts).
Erin, this article has been bandied about quite a bit. There are two portions of the study. The second part is the one that includes pit breeds at all. The data collection method was anonymous internet survey that could be taken multiple times and lied on easily. Therefore, it has zero credibility.
"f your children are playing in your front yard they are more likely to be bitten and killed by a mosquito than a pit."
And hence the invention of mosquito spray. Actually, west nile does not usually kill those over and under certain ages.
Are you aware of the concept of conditional probabilities?
What is the main concern of a parent living near a pit nutter? What is the main concern of a parent with a toddler living in an area where west nile is common?
"I understand wanting to avoid a large breed that you fear, and that is obviously your God given right, but to call for the extinction of an entire breed is ridiculous. How about just the extinction of the irresponsible breeders and those cruel people that enjoy watching animals destroy each other for sport."
Again, please point to the specific calls for extinction.
How would we get rid of irresponsible breeders yet maintain this breed? The vast majority of pits are breed by the irresponsible. In fact, the entire breed was developed by the irresponsible and sadistic. As Dude's comment that I quoted points to, if people were always virtuous, then pit bulls would not exist.
Future pit bulls do not care whether or not they are ever born. What good reason could you possibly have for wanting this breed to continue, let alone as a somewhat common breed?
"I don't own my dogs for protection but when a scary black man comes on my porch I let him believe he could be lunch. I see no harm in that."
gross erin. you're either a troll or a terrible human being. You came here to argue about how pit owners are not all horrible people and you let this bit of violent racist nonsense go, along with a bunch of other shit about how *your* fighting dogs are okay, its everyone else's that are the problem. Do you even read what people say after their pits attack? They all say that same fucking thing. They "somehow" escaped, they were "great with kids", they "must have been provoked", etc. No one thinks they are a bad owner. You're proving exactly what you didn't want to- that pit bulls tend to attract stupid people who behave in an antisocial manner. People who actually know what they are doing are an extreme minority and they tend to be people who understand the extra safety concerns involved with fighting dogs, not the people who deny that extra concerns exist. You're one more nutter in a series that show up here to prove how different they are from those "bad" owners. They generally are given the benefit of the doubt until they decide to talk about how they are backyard breeding or helping a known fighting ring or how their pits get into horrible fights all the time or whatever the fuck it is. This time its about how you think your dogs are there for your safety instead of the other way around, and how its totally kosher to characterize black people as violent criminals to justify having a dangerous animal. You've said some impressively stupid things in this thread- why should anyone give a fuck about anything you have to say at this point?
I was talking about an actual situation that occurred and it would have been no less scary if the person had been blue pink white or black. I was just talking about a very real thing that happened and it was more ab an invasion of property than race . Sorry for offending you.
Did you not see anything ab how closely I monitor my dog? He is never left unattended where he could escape. He was properly social and has been trained. If I tell him to sit and stay, you could walk by all day long and he wouldn't move. I put him away around people who are uncomfortable and don't let strange people or animals approach him with our permission. how is this wrong?
Also of all the attacks the dogs involved mostly likely fall in 3 categories: 1. Fighting dog (actually trained to attack and fight to the death) living at home as family dog. 2. Pit bull never trained, or exposed to various types of people and made to feel threatened by new situations, strangers or strange animals. 3. Rescued dog, past the critical period, given just food, water, and love and expected not to show signs of former abuse or neglect. Rescue dogs need the most work.
@garnet if you don't think a dog can tell a threatening situation you have no knowledge of the animal. Any dog will respond to threats, some submissively some aggressively, across all breeds. Many breeds including many toy breeds aren't considered "good with children" because anything that quick moving children do, is considered a threat. Just because what scares you doesn't scare them, doesn't mean they can't feel threatened.
My parents have nothing to do with the matter. Other than I was lucky enough to be raised with an open mind. And I am not saying that in your shoes I would be able to reopen my mind. If my dog was attacked by another dog I would probably hate that specific dog or their owner for not being responsible, but I don't think I could judge the whole breed. But I see my dog everyday and stray pits on a regular basis and many are capable of being great companions that need a lot of direction. And just because I'm out there saying Benson is great, doesn't mean I'd want all my friends to go buy dogs just like him. Also I definitely think you had great ideas about how to remedy the situation.
Erin boy , skeptifem sure hit the nail on the head with that characterization of you and most other pitluvers that come here. you all pretty much have similar stories and viewpoints and seem to think you can come here and somehow educate us poor sinners and ignorants. never works though, cuz words are just so much hot air and when youre wrong youre wrong . im snarky for a good reason obtw , i just dont have the patience or desire to banter with you pitterine folk. i content myself with a snark instead of the pitbull style grab and hold . lol.
"And I am not saying that in your shoes I would be able to reopen my mind. If my dog was attacked by another dog I would probably hate that specific dog or their owner for not being responsible, but I don't think I could judge the whole breed. "
I don't agree with you, so you think my mind is closed. It is not.
My dog being nearly killed was an important event, but I had seen and heard enough negative about this breed prior to that. After the attack, I began to investigate further. That attack was not sufficient reason for me to come to my current conclusion. My dog was attacked twice prior by shepherd mixes. I harbor no particular dislike against GSDs as a result, although they are a bit more dangerous than the average dog.
"Did you not see anything ab how closely I monitor my dog? He is never left unattended where he could escape."
Famous last words. You cannot guarantee that your dog will not get away from you ever. When your dog does, it is much better to not have a fighting breed.
"Also of all the attacks the dogs involved mostly likely fall in 3 categories: 1. Fighting dog (actually trained to attack and fight to the death) living at home as family dog. 2. Pit bull never trained, or exposed to various types of people and made to feel threatened by new situations, strangers or strange animals. 3. Rescued dog, past the critical period, given just food, water, and love and expected not to show signs of former abuse or neglect. Rescue dogs need the most work."
Erin, this is where your exposure to shelter folks is actively harmful to your thinking process.
People who are involved with pit bulls do not actually track bad attacks on a large scale and know anything about them. With your little checklist, you could look at any attack that happened for another reason, and find a way to click one of your three boxes. You would then move along content that you had once again confirmed your pre-conclusion.
Your list leaves out the main victims of pits, that is other dogs. Pits have elevated levels of dog-directed aggression simply because of selective breeding. It's curious that people concerned with dogs often don't mention the attacks on other dogs by pits when discussing them. You'd think this would be a bigger concern.
Also, you are neglecting that two things can be true at once. A dog can attack someone because it was a pit AND something on your list. 2 and 3 occur in other breeds regularly, yet these other dogs do not attack at the same rates. There is often an interaction of several things.
Pit bull advocates insistence on all these things being done especially for pits means they realize these dogs are more dangerous, all else being equal.
Consider that you have an emotional attachment to a particular animal and that your thinking around the entire breed has been colored, just as you thought my attack closed my mind.
And you are right there could be some freak accident where somehow my dog breaks free and roams the neighborhood. I would worry more ab him getting hit or finding some wandering cat then attacking a human or another dog. Would he not have acted on this predisposition to maul and kill other dogs and humans at the dog park? Not every pit bull is a killer.
Do you feel that you has a less negative view toward GS because they are bred less recklessly and typically owned by people who have the sense to train their dogs? They have the same ability to be destructive and same aggressive nature. But does it not have more to do with obedience, owner control, and breed control?
And I hope you don't feel that I'm being disrespectful ... I genuinely have appreciated your discussion and opinions and am very interested.
"if you don't think a dog can tell a threatening situation you have no knowledge of the animal. Any dog will respond to threats, some submissively some aggressively, across all breeds. Many breeds including many toy breeds aren't considered "good with children" because anything that quick moving children do, is considered a threat. Just because what scares you doesn't scare them, doesn't mean they can't feel threatened."
It is ridiculous to think an animal can tell a real threat and act preemptively with the correct force level. You admit as much when you state that small breeds often feel threatened and attack. You have admitted that a dog's since of threat usually doesn't match what I person would evaluate it as. That dogs that attack out of fear are fearful at the time is simply a circular argument and isn't a point.
I would never trust my dog to think with any subtlety. The only time I would want him to bite is if he or I were being violently attacked.
"Would he not have acted on this predisposition to maul and kill other dogs and humans at the dog park?"
Nearly every pit bull org states it is a horrible idea to take a pit to a dog park, regardless of your observations of the animal.
You knew you had a fighting breed but thought you'd try out the dog park. Works for you because your dog isn't likely to be the one that gets hurt if your experiment goes awry.
"We keep him on leash in public and at dog parks incase he did find a lady he liked."
Do you take your dog to dog parks? Even with a leash, that is not prudent.
Also, the evidence that pit bulls constitute a public health problem is overwhelming and persuasive, with data and findings coming from multiple independent parties that have no political agenda regarding dogs. I think that you do the readers here a disservice when you chalk their opinions about pit bulls up to having a traumatic experience with a random "bad apple" pit bull.
"Do you feel that you has a less negative view toward GS because they are bred less recklessly and typically owned by people who have the sense to train their dogs? They have the same ability to be destructive and same aggressive nature. But does it not have more to do with obedience, owner control, and breed control?"
GSDs do not have the same aggressive nature nor innate destructive ability as a fighting breed.
Much of the rest of what you asked can be broken into two questions:
Do I think nurture has an effect? Of course.
Do I think poor nurture (training, etc) explains what we see with fighting breeds? No.
Remember, 2 things can be true at once. Pit bulls are more dangerous, and (partly because of this) they often attract bad owners. The two things interact.
Now, you brought up reckless breeding of pit bulls. I agree, there is no breed stewardship, but the entire history of the dog was bad breeding. Fighting breeds were created by sadists. If good and responsible breeding had always been the case, then pit bulls would not exist.
I do believe that I am partial and I believe that we all are allowed our opinions. And I did say that pits were high on the list of dog-related aggression. And you are right they have been selectively bred for this in many cases. Which is why I don't let strange dogs run up to Benson without supervision. But I wouldn't let a strange dog run up to any of my dogs or family dogs without supervision no matter what their breed is. I choose to be cautiously optimistic based on my experience with him. If a dog ever acted aggressively toward my dog or my self I would remove myself and my dog from the situation and I pay other animal owners the same respect.
@dubv I am sorry that question was not intended to be upsetting I was just curious. was not going to make comments ...
I feel that people who lack experience with Shepards talk about them in the same way people talk about pits. I owned 3 Shepards growing up, but I had friends that would not come over because we owned Max (160lbs, male). He never bit anyone and only growled at the ups man. He could not over just about anything but that was the extent of his damage. However there are restrictions to owning Shepards in some apartment complexes just like pit bulls citing their "size , jaw strength, and natural instincts". I think that you are right ab breeding and I don't condone it. But I don't agree with breeding of a lot of dog varieties due to recklessness.
YES I AGREE that some people ruin it for all pit bull owners, but those are the scum and trolls. Do you think I would laugh like the kid in the video if my dog bit someone's hand? God, no. I would hope that my dog would protect me in a life threatening situation as I would protect him. But would I get in a fist fight in my front yard? Or let someone crate Benson with another dog known also for dog-related aggression. I did not buy my dog for his size, jaw strength, or aggression. I found him. And he was on the street bc of people like that kid in the video.
I do take my dog to dog parks, our boxer lab is extremely social and has a lot of energy so the dog park was a great outlet for her. When benson was young we would let him play off leash too, but being an intact dog means that I keep him on leash because those are the rules and that's what is right even if he has never humped anything . Now that we have a fenced back yard we do not go as much but I still take benson out for walks on the pedestrian trail by our house. It is a very beautiful trail and has alot of traffic. Out of respect for other owners and dogs I don't let my dogs run up to other dogs without consent, and I appreciate it when people treat me the same way.
I have lots of comments to catch up on but I have flames coming out of my ears after reading this from the "educated" Erin
" Just stating facts about my background and also personal experience with the breed, that most of you appear to be lacking. We obviously have differing viewpoints, but I appreciate the discussion...especially responses that critique things other than my spelling or background.
If any if you have been attacked by put bulls or any other breeds I am truly sorry to hear that."
Erin, we DO have experience with the breed. We were going on about the legal and peaceful details of living when pit bull violence randomly chose to change our lives. We don't get our peaceful lives back... ever. Mostly, if victims shut up and take their mauling quietly they will pay all their own medical expenses and suffer with lifelong pain and/or disfigurement and/or disability. Pit bull advocacy will take no further notice of us. If we have the nerve to consider this an unfair response to our mauling and we make reasonable requests for law to protect public safety (and I realize that my sentences run on but that happens when the flames come) pit bull advocacy turns on us with the same violence of the original attack.
Here is something that you may have missed Erin, every victim says the same thing when a reporter holds a microphone in front of our stunned, dirty, bloody faces and asks for a comment. We all say "nobody should have to go through this."
I am personally offended and enraged by pit bull advocates who tell me that I lack "personal personal experience with the breed." I am one of the luckiest pit bull victims ever, my scars so not show, my lifelong disabilities are relatively minor, my four legged partner lived but also suffers lifelong disability, I was compensated for my losses and expenses. Think long and hard before you have the nerve to tell me, or any other victim, that we "lack personal experience with the breed."
Take your self satisfied comments to pit-bullchat if you want a positive response.
to listen to this type of pitter gives the impression of master dog trainer , full time dog handler and person without distractions or other complicating factors in life. the real situation is somewhat different, im sure . these women talk as though they have every thing well under control and i think we all know that is just not the case.
i may seem like a troll but im just as serious and committed to this issue as any of the other cravenites. i just prefer to leave the reasoned and reasonable responses to those other dedicated victims and concerned folk who have the stomach for dealing nicely with assholes and idiots .
"Because you are the offspring of two alcoholics, you will be an alcoholic and do not deserve to exist....sorry about your luck."
Just saw this again from Erin. A potential genetic tendency for a trait in a human is not the same as selective breeding in dogs over 100s of years.
A closer analogy would be if we had selectively bred the worst alcoholics that showed onset early and horrible severity and did this for a few hundred years. Yes, children born of that line would, if there is a significant genetic component to alcoholism, be hobbled by their lineage.
good grief, Erin is such a piece of work, I tried to read bits and bobbles of her BS, but really grew so sick and tired of it so quickly. Gotta wonder how why she was trying to act like such a pit hero and come to Craven's blog and try and "educate" these souls. What a freak. I, like April29, get beyond insulted, and quite frankly beyond pissed off reading their "go get educated comments" my education in the world of pits and their asshole owners came after my child was attacked. And the difference between my education, and yours Erin, is mine is based on truth, your is based on fooling yourself, then passing on your bullshit advice to others, so you can cloud the glasses they look at you through. You are an ego maniac choosing to own such a dangerous breed, especially if you have kids. If your pit attacks you, well...but if it attacks any kids you may have, well, imagine living with that...or can you allow your ego to take that kind of journey, likely not!
I love it when pitnutters get on here! OMG you guys kick ass! That's why I love reading on here! I'm in great hands because of the cravenites. AU could call me a "free rider" n he would b correct. For now....just on here reading n gettin my edumacation...
Yep, pit nutters are always screaming education. Like YOU and I need an education to take a walk on the public streets. Somehow YOU and I have no clue about how to behave around pit bull dogs, who of course are "like any other dog".
Next time I take a flight to Texas, I'll make sure to get a course on MIG fighter jets too...in case one attacks my plane.
She is trying to "educate" us but if you read some of the comments, we're educating her, LOL!
Remember, we're not the ones with pit bull dogs, SHE IS and from the responses, she got educated. I doubt she will heed any of our advice.
I hope that Erin thinks more clearly than she writes. That shit was hard to follow. I felt like I was grading papers, except that I wasn't getting paid for it.
pitnutters , they come here all idealistic , thinking they will put us in our places, show us the error of our ways but instead they find they have not done their own homework and they are made to see themselves as we do and usually get uppity and beligerent and piss off back to where they came from , thankfully cuz we are, by then ,sick and tired of them. lol
"in the zombie apocalypse, i expect pit bulls to do well; their owners are not so likely to survive since planning, teamwork, and intelligence seem to be required. inability to control a dog (or put it on a leash) suggests inability to control oneself. i'm not preparing for the z'apoc, but fiction that eliminates idiots and rewards organizers continues to appeal. and the 1% would have to join the rest of humanity...maybe...."
Also of all the attacks the dogs involved mostly likely fall in 3 categories: 1. Fighting dog (actually trained to attack and fight to the death) living at home as family dog. 2. Pit bull never trained, or exposed to various types of people and made to feel threatened by new situations, strangers or strange animals. 3. Rescued dog, past the critical period, given just food, water, and love and expected not to show signs of former abuse or neglect. Rescue dogs need the most work.
which one of these categories summarizes the darla/gunner scenario?
I'm kind of amazed to see what's happened here. Thinking of the picture at The TRUTH About Pit Bulls, 'If you repeat a lie often enough it becomes truth'.
Dawn, you don't have to train pit bulls to fight (your 1 above). The 'bait dog' thing is more a culling than a training process. A pit bull that has fought (be it in the pit or in the neighborhood by mauling a dog or child) might, may be more likely to do it again because it's discovered how good it feels. Given the number of pits that maul and kill upon their very first attack, I'm not sure any prior experience is necessary.
The unsocialized pit bull doesn't attack because it's frightened (your 2 above). You can socialize and desensitize a pit bull all you like, it will still attack just for the joy of it if you give it a chance to mate (for example) or it gets too excited because you're petting it, or someone sneezes, etc. Pit bulls attack without any emotional engagement at all except for the joy of doing what they were engineered to do. Fear has nothing to do with it, although that can of course be one of the hundreds of other triggers (such as air in the room).
Rescued DOGS (which pit bulls are not) aren't prone to attack. They are the ones that do 'bites' of the kind just enough to open an escape route. The main problem with second-hand DOGS is discovering what someone did to them. I've seen dogs panic when I picked up a stick to throw for them. Others if I showed them a leash. Yet others only if a man took over the leash. These aren't dogs that are just waiting for some excuse to attack cos attacking is such fun. They've learned that certain human actions are a signal that a beating or other torture is coming.
Well, and so on. Let's not let discussing with the millionth idiotic nutter make us lose sight of what real dogs are.
I wanted to ask people here who have children if they felt anxiety at the thought of trick-or-treating with their kids. Last year was fine but i was oblivious to the issue with pitbulls. This year i am full of anxiety about it because there are so many pb's in this area. With the attitude of the owners being so lax (they're just sweet and loving etc) i know these people probably wont take precautions, except for a minority of them. Part of me wants to cancel but i dont want to disappoint my kids. My anxiety is compounded because I have a fear of dogs to begin with because of past trauma. I imagine someone on here has felt this way. Any advice?
You said "It is ridiculous to think an animal can tell a real threat and act preemptively with the correct force level."
Well, I certainly wouldn't say it's "ridiculous" to think an animal can evaluate and respond appropriately to a threat, though there might be some differences of opinion on the matter. Livestock guardian dogs have been employed for centuries in Europe and Asia to do just that.
These livestock guardians are given autonomy in their role, working and making decisions independently. They spend their days and nights chilling with the herd, just hanging out. When a possible threat surfaces, they bark a warning. If the threat continues to approach, they approach the threat to try and discourage further encroachment. They engage in a gradual escalation up to the point killing the attacker if necessary, be it wolf, coyote or pit bull.
That's not to say nothing has ever gone wrong, but neither could one say that about humans, and overall their record over the centuries has been good.
Of course, we're not talking about mutants here, just normal working dogs. As we know, mutants are not livestock guardians. They are livestock torturers.
Has anyone noticed the wierd similarities between a lot of these alleged "educated" pit bull fans who come onto craven and try to engage posters here?
The first step usually involves condemning the actions of a pit owner being discussed on the blog, with a disclaimer, "I own a pit, but I am not like that, I am reasonable and aggree with you".
Next comes the wierd, rambling self disclosure, which involves numerous details about themselves and their dog and their life. There is usually a lot of narccisistic self-promotion regarding their knowledge of dogs thrown in. At this stage, the poster is usually quite formal and overly polite.
They are quick to point out that they are "educated", and continue their pointless discussions with endless attention-seeking behavior. It soon becomes apparent that they are
1. Involved in pit rescue and have the typical fetish for the breed we see so often.
2. Are irresponsible pit bull owners who will justify their personal decisions (taking a pit bull to a dog park) despite the fact that ALL bully breed experts insist that that is a HORRIBLE idea.
After a while, when the craven posters fail to be swayed by what they believe is their brilliant rhetoric, they start to get nasty. I would say that phase is coming soon with Erin.
"Well, I certainly wouldn't say it's "ridiculous" to think an animal can evaluate and respond appropriately to a threat, though there might be some differences of opinion on the matter. Livestock guardian dogs have been employed for centuries in Europe and Asia to do just that."
Jake, you have a good point. I was thinking more in terms of dogs (especially the untrained variety) handling a threat from a human appropriately. I know there are police dogs, etc that have training in that role. Still, if a livestock guardian overreacts and kills a coyote that could've been driven off, it isn't in the same realm as overreacting to a meter reader that walks into the backyard. Just my thoughts.
Oh my, Dawn, thank you for alerting me to the action on OMS. That really brightened up my afternoon.
From the raving nutter (who, hilariously, wants to become a psychiatrist):
"I promise you..tomorrow I will tear this shit up. From beggining to end I will PROVE beyond a doubt that vintage is a fucking idiot that doesn't know shit. I'll stop with the swearing and the dumbass remarks and I'll spell check and everything. Also, I'll list links to legit sights..not wikapedia or some bullshit but actual scientifically proven shit and shit written by people that do more than write blogs for a living that will prove my point."
Pure, pure comedy gold. In fact, I almost wonder if one of the regular commenters here at CD is playing a practical joke.
My favorites: "actual scientifically proven shit" and "..and I'll spell check and everything!"
The "Do YOU know PLATO???!" challenge great, too. Actually, we could coin it as a joke term for whenever an "educated" nutter throws out their alleged intellectual expertise: The "Do YOU know Plato?!" gambit.
"My favorites: "actual scientifically proven shit" and "..and I'll spell check and everything!""
It might end up being a good thing. A lot of people I've met who are former believers in psychics/homeopathy/mormonism/whatever started their journey out of the nonsense by insisting they would prove everyone wrong. They did the research and eventually came to the conclusion that they had been mistaken. I'm glad they will be searching for scientific data, its an opportunity for them to change.
TreeC- maybe you could bring a utility knife or a crowbar or something just in case. OR you could knock on the door first and leave if you hear dogs barking, avoid houses that you know have pits in them, etc. You can take precautions instead of abstaining.
Tree-C perhaps can you take your children to a really upscale neighborhood to Trick or Treat. Not that there might not be a mutant in that kind of neighborhood, but they sure would be few and far between.
--------- Branwyne, that was a wonderful analysis, spot on.
I commend all the regulars here for doing a superb job with your rebuttals to the current nutter who has come here to spout their nonsense.
As for OMS, I was wondering when their might be some similar conversation with the poster there.
PutMe Incharge, the aspiring psychiatrist (haahaha) nutter at OMS is too damn crazy for me to want to tangle with. Did you see the length and content matter of his rantings? This is the sort of loon who'll send you babbling hatemail for years after you get his attention.
As for the aspiring psychiatrist, never has this saying been more true- "physician heal thyself"
I actually thought it was quite amusing that the poster just keeps adding to his own rant. He actually does not need a response to his own debate- he seems to be satisfied with only himself participating. I guess you could call him a masterdebater...............
This is exactly the type of people who own pit bulls, but should never own a breed of dog with aggressive tendencies.
You have to wonder how they treat their dogs. I've read a few pit nutter comments from there and the pit nutters all seem unstable, just like their pit bulls. Both ready to snap at the slightest provocation.
I do actually now carry a knife. Ill be sure to have it in a front pocket though instead of my purse. I dont think people would like me approaching their door with a tire iron so I'll leave that in my trunk :) I think the upscale neighborhood is a great idea. That's what I'm gonna do. Can't avoid them cuz I see them there too but they are more plentiful here. I wish pits had to be registered in a national database like pedos, then i could at least look on a map and see where they are to avoid them. Erins typical attitude about these dogs is what reminded me how anxious Ive been about Halloween because I picture someone opening their door and an unsecured mutant flying out. Im fearful and tend to anticipate stuff like that. Oh well hopfully we'll find a nice pitbull free neighborhood. Thanks guys!
guess there will be thousands of mutants dressed up for halloween . some of those frankenmaulers might turn out to be real and those poor tricker treaters gonna sure get more than they bargained for.
If you can't have a gun then pepper spray, knife, and a large metal flashlight might suffice if you can't travel to a safer area. Also having several adults with you and your child should help, if possible.
Erin D states : my pitbull is harmless but he would defend me to the death.
Pit bull owners often repeat this misconception. In saying this they do not seem to be aware of how often pit bulls attack and maim or kill their owners.
Pit bulls have a genetic imperative to attack, for no other reason that that it feels good to the creature to do what it was bred for. Although a pit bull may go years without this behavior being triggered, there is no way to predict or prevent it. When pit bull owners see this violent behavior, they often excuse it by saying that the pit is being "protective".
But no, rather than "protecting" anyone, the pit bull is just expressing it's genetic blueprint. Since pit bulls attack their owners so frequently, an action which is virtually unheard of with normal dogs, it begs the question "who are they supposed to be protecting when they kill their owners?"
you just know these dingbats will have a ready excuse if their harmless mutant kills something/someone. yet when their mutant gets dirtnapped they cant understant why .
when a dingbat sez her mutant is a sweety and an adorable lovebug she is not seeing things from the point of view of a black man on her veranda who is frozen in fear of said love bug.
DURANT OK - NEIGHBOR'S 2 PIT BULLS CAME THROUGH A FENCE AND ATTACKED A BELOVED CHIHUAHUA "JETHRO" - THE OWNER FOUGHT THE PIT BULLS TO SAVE JETHRO AND SHE WAS INJURED ALSO
I think the problem with most pit bull owners is that they cannot comprehend the phrase "beloved chihuahua" or beloved a non-power breed, especially a smaller one. Fuck pit nutters. They are all covering in some way for the worst of their ranks.
blogger changed that feature a while back. you need to paste the url into your profile list of blogs you follow but now that blogger had forced every one into their new and improved interface, i don't know how to do it anymore.
"This is were all the inbred methheads come on here and tell us that Pit Bulls are the kindest dogs on earth but the media just targets them and not other breeds. I say, go back inside your trailer house and continue having whoopie with your cousin. The fresh batch of tweaker powder will be ready soon and you can stay awake for the next week and enjoy your Pit Bull that you have to keep on a 3/8" chain as well as inside a make shift chain link fence. Yeah I know, your sweet little pit bull wouldn't hurt a fly but somehow I have trouble believing you and I don't know if it's because your dog just ate a poodle or the fact that you only have 3 teeth left in your mouth. Stay classy..................."
TreeC, the pit bull that terrorized my nice suburban neighborhood belonged to a college student. After she moved away and got marrried, she would come back to her parents on Halloween with her small children, AND HER PITBULL to trick or treat. She would also bring her young friends with their two pit bulls, one year they had one off leash!
We sometimes dress my dog up and leash him to the porch railing to sit outsdie with my husband, while my husband gives out candy...I have a lot of steps, and we don't want to make the little ones climb them. My dog just likes to sit up on the landing. This group of pit owners walked by, and one pit bull saw my dog....from about 20 feet away, the pit started that high pitched whining and pulling on the leash...the way a lot of dogs act when they see a squirrel, hyper-focused, hard stare, whining and straining and barking. He clearly wanted to get at my dog, and the young owners were clueless...this pit was dog aggressive and should NEVER have been out walking around on Halloween.
I agree with the posters who say find an affluent neighborhood and trick or treat there. I started walking my dog in a very beautiful, affluent part of my town, and there are absolutely NO pit bulls. Your chances of encountering pit bulls in nicer neighborhoods are much lower than in middle and working class neighborhoods.
I always have to laugh when a dog owner claims that "my dog loves everyone, but would protect me with his life". Erin claims that her dog's aggression toward an unfamiliar stranger is because of his love for, and loyalty to, her. That's hogwash. Most of the time, when a dog puts on an aggressive display, it's because of fear. The man who seemed scary to Erin also seemed scary to the dog...he looked wrong, he smelled wrong, his voice was wrong, etc. The aggressive display had nothing to do with protecting his master, and everything to do with protecting himself. I know that's really hard for young narccisissts to wrap their heads around....that their dog is acting in his own best interests, and really doesn't spend any time worrying about you. The aggressive display is meant to make the person who makes the dog uncomfortable, go away. That's it.
And if the dog is allowed to decide that people that make him uncomfortable can be driven away with aggression, and that behavior is reinforced with praise from a delusional owner who believes the dog is acting out of "love" for her, you can soon end up with an animal who is more and more comfortable using aggression to stop a human from doing ANYTHING he doesn't want them to do....deliver a package to your house, come in the house to repair an appliance, jog too close while the dog is out on a leash walk.
It's similar to all the "hero" dog stories of dogs alerting their masters to a house fire. The "Dog Saves Family from Fire" headlines are harmless, but in reality the dogs frantic barking that woke the family (who surely would have perished in the fire) was because HE wanted to get the hell out of the burning house! If the dog could talk, he would be screaming "Wake up you idiots and open the door and let me out! If I had opposable thumbs I would do it myself!"
It seems part of the personality profile of pit bull owners....they anthropomorphize these dogs and project magical qualities onto them.
Branwyn I was thinking of a small affluent town called Wenham where my older children's grandfather lives. It would be less likely to see them there but still all the propaganda is even affecting the more educated and I see pb's in the nicer neighborhoods too :/ My fear is that I'll see one and go into a panic as happened on the beach in NH over the summer. There were a few pit mixes but they seemed okay and preoccupied with their owner. Then one came bounding onto the beach and ran past us, owner was six or eight feet behind it. I told my husband to get the kids and I ran to the car. I sat in the car shaking and crying. It pisses me off that these people have no forethought that perhaps some people have had bad experiences with dogs. And as in your case, no forethought about other dogs. Even if I, or your dog, wasnt attacked theres still a measure of victimization there imo.
DubV I wish I had a gun. I have a knife but not sure if I could actually plunge it into anything....eeek! My husband cant go with us this year. My oldest son and daughter will be there but my daughter is very petite and my son isnt very physical, more the cerebral type. I can see us al now scrambling and trampling each other to get away lol. The only thing in my favor is a have a temper. When that kicks in, watch out. But yeah a gun would be ever so nice and less messy too.
One more thing I would like to share...in Sue Sternberg's wonderful book, "Successful Dog Adoption" she describes a certain type of adopter who is attracted to "abused animal" stories. She tells the story about a case they had where a group wanted to transfer a white german shepherd dog to her facility who was a cruelty victim of neglect and was supposedly "emaciated". Sue put the word out about the dogs availability and story, and soon had what appeared to be an ideal candidate who wanted to adopt him.
But when the dog showed up at her facility, he was in a lot better shape than they had been led to believe...a little thin, but overall a robust, playful, happy dog full of energy, who wanted to play ball.
The adopter came out to meet the dog; she had made all sorts of preparations, including buying high caloric, nutritionally dense food to nurse him back to health. But when she saw him, instead of being happy his condition wasn't that bad, she was crestfallen. She was apparently deeply disappointed that her pity rescue turned out to be a happy, relatively healthy, normal dog. She didn't want a normal dog, she wanted a sick, abused dog...perhaps to feed her own ego, or for bragging rights over the fact that she "saved" this animal. She left without adopting the dog.
Erins tale of finding her sick, abused pit bull, which she felt so compelled to share with us early in her narrative, seems very common with pit bull fanatics. It seems like part of the appeal of owning a pit bull for many women....they seem attracted to the fact that they "saved" a very sick or injured dog, and enjoy telling the story. I imagine it gives them a lot of credibility with other pit bull advocates. Going to a shelter and adopting a healthy, friendly retreiver mix wouldn't allow you to keep repeating the self-congratulatory story about how you saved a very sick, abandoned dog from death.
I think that is actually part of the appeal of the breed for many of these women...they don't want a healthy, happy, easy dog as a companion animal....the want a story, they want to feel like martyrs, they want to feel needed and special, they want attention....even negative attention.
TreeC you are from Mass! I am from Mass also, in the Greater Boston area! I know exactly what you mean!
When my children were young, for years I could not walk around the block...I never knew when the young owner of the pit bull would be home, and the dog loose. The pit bull had already attacked other dogs...it had once come after my almost three year old son, stalking us and keeping us frozen on the sidewalk while I screamed at the owner to call it off.
Pit bulls aren't that common in my town, but the few that do exist cause enormous problems. The MSPCA and other humane groups are relentlessly pushing these dogs on people, especially first time dog owners, and people who don't know anything about dogs. Many times they will lie to adopters and label pit bulls other breeds...lab mixes(black pit bull) Weimaraner mixes (blue pit bull), vizla mixes (red nose pit bull) border collie mixes (black and white pit bull) dalmation mixes (spotetd pit bull), etc.
I have met suburban families who were tricked into adopting a pit bull.....some end up returning them when the dogs genetics kick in and they start to show aggression toward other animals.
Hamilton-Whenham would be a better area to bring the kids....I can't imagine the folks up at the Myopia Hunt Club and that aear would for a moment tolerate any threat to their horses. (we don't care much about children in this country, but if a pit bull took down a polo pony, THAT would inspire action).
......I'm speechless
ReplyDeleteHe's real good with people + he bit my friends ass when we were fooling around in the yard = one big idiot
ReplyDeletepitbulls tend to get passed around a lot among the retards that like beer , pizza and brawling. at least the punks idiot uncle had enuf brain cells left to dirt-napp the mutant bitch. love it when lady karma's bitch turns around to bite buttheads on the butt.
ReplyDeleteThis is your brain on drugs.................
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeletejust watched "my first tattoo"... laughed my socks off.
its the same idiot with the dirt-napped bluenose. that punk is one sic motor-mouth.
I named a bunny vicious as a joke about stupid pit bull names. If there ever was a clue about why people get pits its the names. No one names their pit something normal, its always some shit like "problem" or "felony" or "patron". jesus christ.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeletethe punk thot it a funny story that his cat was almost killed and his pit-bitch got its eyeball scratched. what a turd . of course it was all down to his mom being inattentive and letting the mutant out . fucking stupid hideous looking white trash.
Yes, they walk among us. And they breed.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeletepunk doesnt think his tattoos will keep him from getting jobs , lol, @ self-deluded losers . chris ten years down the road will still be a fucked up kid without pit or a pot to piss in . nice tattoos though , best thing he ever did . lol.
obtw chris , learn to make your bed , it looks like a pitbulls breakfast.
Guys,
ReplyDeleteHe's sort of entertaining. At least he's telling it like it is. LOL!!!!!
It's very rare you hear any pit bull owner just explaining honestly what his dog is like.
It was entertaining to watch and a few of the comments are funny.
ReplyDelete"hes sort of entertaining"
yes he is and i love reading comment from pitterphools cuz they cant help advertizing their bad breeding and ignorance but i usually dont have to look at them too.
i agree with with you rumpelstiltskin! i gave his video a thumbs up. he is not only telling us what mutants are like, he is telling us what pit nutters are like. good times.
ReplyDeletebut i would like to know what college/university is allowing this fucktard to take up precious classroom space.
the comments on the video are great. its a bunch of fur mommies objecting to the idea that pit bulls are bred to kill.
ReplyDeleteDawn,
ReplyDeleteI hear ya! These days, they'll let anyone into college.
Someone should grab the video before the poster takes it down.
ReplyDeleteOne of the easiest ways is to simply add the word kiss in front of the video url and you can save a video.
I think this is definitely a pit bull owner classic video, worthy of some sort of award even. Does Craven have a yearly video award, if not perhaps its time!
no worries about this video or any future videos. i have them covered :)
ReplyDeleteoff the top of my head, i'd have to give the video award to the brazilian dude and phlebotomy dog.
hes only being halfway honest cuz he doesnt realize or care that its not just his idiot buddies that might see his scummy vid . i gave him the thumbs down as though he was in a pit with a pit at his throat .
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeletejust want to point out that its not ok to promote dogs just because they are supposedly not human-aggressive . you hurt someones pet and chances are you are hurting the owner as well , maybe even a pit owner although unlikely a pitter cares too much as in the case of the above punk.
i think you are onto something snarky.
ReplyDeletethey don't care when our dogs are injured or killed because they don't really about the welfare of their ugly mutant shit bulls. it's all a façade.
ReplyDeletewell yeah ,
someone just wanting a pet , a companion to give and receive love would have to be a bit thick to get a pitbull. its a bit like getting a tiger when u just want a cat .
" how my pitbull died "
ReplyDeleteit didnt just die , it was dirt-napped for killing another dog and for biting its then fucktard owner. sure the owner was a fucktard for taking the dog in the first place and thinking he might be ok caged with another mutant(of a kind).....but at least he did the right , even noble thing in the end. live by the tooth , die by injection , drug , knife or bullet , it matter little as long it puts an end to it .
This site Rocks!
ReplyDeletehttp://doghatersunite.com/tag/pit-bull-attack/
i added the blog to the list in the side bar.
ReplyDeleteThanks Vintage, you're very kind.
ReplyDeleteAnd thank you Dawn, I added Craven Desires to my site as well.
DHU is for people who find dogs annoying, often dangerous, and highly overrated as pets. Service and working dogs are acceptable.
ReplyDeletedogs are definitely annoying, barking shit factories. the perfect species to accompany humankind toward oblivion. who can explain primates coming down from the trees and allying themselves with wolf-like creatures only to eons later mutate into pitnutters and their undogs.
go figure
Her name was Vicious and she didn't get along with animals. And it goes downhill from there...
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeletethis stupid drive to be just like everyone else has hit rock bottom when it becomes cool to be a fuck-up with a fucked up dog .
doghatersunite,
ReplyDeletehere's a good one for you.
btw, i don't hate dogs but i understand why people do and i support your right to hate them and freely & openly express your hatred.
ReplyDeletei hate dogs when they happen to be three beserking mutants in a rednecks pickup with the window open.
ReplyDeleteis there a town in north america that doesnt have little tattooed tossers and crazed freaky dingbats and their fourlegged unfriends? please tell where and if they have B.L.S.
ReplyDeleteB.S.L. RATHER ......BLS stands for breed leglislation sucks and thats definitely NOT what i mean .
ReplyDeleteOBTW : the term "little tattooed tossers" does not refer to little league ball players , rather backward capped and backward thinking cretins of the baby pit-nutter persuasion.
UGH - about the breastfeeding pug. That really made me nauseous.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Dawn about DHU. I can TOTALLY see why peole don't like them and it is outrageous that people assume that everyone must be OK with theirs.
Jerry Seinfeld did a bit where he said if you came from outer space to study this planet, and you saw two different species walking down a sidewalk together, and one species was carrying the other species' shit in a bag, which species would you assume was in charge?
ReplyDeleteyea , but i love the show "life after humans" becuz it recognizes that we humans are like a slow cancer thats killing off its host animal. humans like to think they are above other species and deserve to have our way but i see the human race as two legged mutants in many ways far worse than the four legged ones.
I think if you did a demographic profile of pit bull owners, you would find that kids like this represent a majority.
ReplyDeleteI also think that its losers like this BREEDING the majority of pit bulls we see in the community. I notice the one topic pit bull fanatics all like to avoid is the topic of pit bull breeders. This young man admits his pit bull had bitten people and killed other animals, but then said she was "great with kids". Why do you suppose his uncle wanted her? I am guessing he thought he could breed her and make some quick cash.
Let's see....do you think there are any Irish Water Spaniel owners like this kid out there? Do we have any tatooed English Setter owners living in filth, bragging about their dog attacking people and killing animals on YouTube? Anyone ever see a guy like this walking a collie?
This young creep represents the source of the pit bull problem....its people like him who are PRODUCING THESE DOGS! And there is not one person in pit bull advocacy who can deny this simple truth.
I completely agree with you and did not buy my pitbull I almost ran it over in a parking lot. I dont encourage irresponsible breeding and it is the reason that almost ever cage at the shelter is full, but seriously it's not the dogs...it the f*ed up people like that skinny excuse for a man in the video who create this problem , bc they are small and think a animal they can't control because they lack the mental and apparently physical capability to do so, will solve their problem.
DeleteGAG
ReplyDeleteI've seen a lot of gross things following this issue, but the breast feeding bitch is the worst. Nearly lost my breakfast.
I agree with snarky on the cancer metaphor. In fact, I was wondering how much trouble I'd get into for starting a CHU blog, where C stood for child. Seems like the same issues we've got with Pits we've got with kids. Listen to the mama thugs defend their brats when they get hauled off for randomly murdering someone.
cazz
ReplyDeleteBranwyne
i never met an english setter or owner i didnt like and its mostly down to the breeding and good breeding cuts both ways . nice person plus a nice dog eguals a victim for an asshole with a shit-bull.
I'm gonna enter a dissident voice here. I think there is something seriously wrong with humans who don't like other animals. I reject everyone who blanketly hates dogs...which BTW doesn't mean I expect everyone to love my dogs.
ReplyDeletePit bulls aren't dogs. They are (as snarky says) four-legged genetically engineered mirrors of human mutants. PBs are as much like dogs as Kony is like real humans.
The only real, big, huge problem on this planet is that there are way too many of us...and that we behave like humans. It's also a real, big, huge problem that so many mothers are raising children like this entitled piece of shit in this video.
Which brings me to Cazz's comment. I don't inflict my dogs on people who don't like dogs. It would be nice if all these anti-barkers and dog-haters did the same with their children -- including not raising them to be entitled princes and princesses and aside from that as imbecilic as this idiot in the video. Because it's these entitled princes and princesses YOU raised -- you who think that you alone are entitled to use of this planet -- that are inflicting barking and pit bulls on all their neighbors.
Maybe if y'all were, yourselves, a bit less entitled, we'd have less of these disgusting stupid children and barking dog neighbors around?
Snarky, you are right....when I think of all the bird dog owners I know, they are all incredibly nice people. I just took my dog for a walk, and we passed a house with a field bred springer spaniel...she was off leash and barked at us, but never left her owners side. He was a nice guy in his thirties, we chatted for a moment. I also passed a guy walking a border collie mix, very nice, smiled, said hello, told me I had a "good looking dog". Lots of nice, repectful, friendly people own nice, non-aggressive, dogs.
ReplyDeleteThere is definitely a correlation between dog breeds and the types of people that own them. I don't think you will see any Portuguese Water Dog owners flashing gang signs, with the waist band of their pants just above their crotch. And the reality is that there are many, many breeds of dogs that very seldom end up in shelters. The "homeless dog crisis" is pretty much a regional phenomenon, and generally limited to specific breeds and mixes common to the area, byber fads, like chiweenies and, universally, pit bulls. So while some rural southern shelters may get heelers hounds, labs, and their mixes, they will RARELY see a purebred sheltie, and probably never see a flat coated retreiver.
Nice people, who love animals, do not breed fighting dogs, and there are many breeders of many different breeds who manage to be great stewards of their breed and are able to keep them out of the hands of bad owners and certainly out of the U.S. shelter system. the pit bull situation is fairly hopeless, since breed stweardship doesn't exist.
P.S. If you can't empathize with animals, it's impossible that you can really empathize with -- and understand, and care well for -- a human neonate. Human neonates are non-verbal, primitive, helpless, with brains that will only start to outpace various non-human animal species between three and six years of age (depending on the non-human animal you compare them with). 'Loving' it because it's your own and because it will eventually become a cognitive human doesn't mean you can understand and meet its needs while it's still in that helpless, pre-verbal, primitive developmental stage. If you lack the curiosity to understand what an animal is about, then you lack curiosity to really understand the pre-verbal, primitive, helpless human neonate too. You just do this or that, whatever some popular books tell you. The child will be FANTASTIC just simply because it's the narcissistic extension of you.
ReplyDeleteNo wonder the present generation is so unconcerned when their consumer article (the dog) barks incessantly or their fashion item (the pit bull) kills anything but them.
ReplyDeletewhat would get if you put a horrible person with a setter with a nice person with shitbull? two very confused dogs not knowing whether to lick you or rip you to death.
ReplyDeleteno seriously,.. i was at the lights waiting and an elderly woman pulled up with a bishon fris . i motioned for her to turn down the music as i hate rap musick and instead she flashed me the double up-yours . i nearly died from surprise until i read the bumper sticker ..... MY SECOND DOG IS A RED-NOSE SHIT-BULL.
Sputnik, I don't think these folks are saying that they hate every single dog without exception and would like to take steps to eradicate all dogs from the planet. That strong of a statement would be perverse. Also, I don't think they are stating they hate all animals. I have had positive and negative experiences with dogs. In my case, the positive has far outweighed the negative, and so I consider myself a dog lover. I can totally understand how someone with a different set of experiences could come to the conclusion that, in general, they dislike dogs. Stating that you dislike (even hate) cats, cows, horses, squid, or other animals does not generally illicit the response these folks get. I don't think it is reasonable to expect them to continually caveat their statements to death (such as "I hate dogs in general, but recognize their are fine dogs that I might like if I gave them a chance and that would not cause me trouble....).
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeletebird dog vs turd dog ?
lets see, do we have any tatted to rat-shit, setter owners living in filth , bragging about their setters killing other bird dogs and biting fellow church members on the ass?
when was the last time you saw golden retriever owner walking out into traffic trying to flag down a red-neck pig to sell oral sex to ?
Meanwhile Eric Hobdy walks...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nhregister.com/articles/2012/10/17/news/metro/doc507f7a29080f3121213086.txt?viewmode=2
She was being sued by a mail carrier for a previous attack when the Nannicide occurred.
ReplyDeleteshitbulls really arent like the normal dogs ive known who could never be made to attack other dogs or people but they are a lot like the violent and crazy people i seem to meet almost daily . peops like the baby pitnutter in the video who is surely as common as those green bags of dog shit you see almost everywhere. so yeah , i have to agree that mutants are not real dogs but are a kind of pig engineered to please their pig owners.
After a string of Nanni-cides and Nanni-maulings, the OMS Nannydog piece has been updated:
ReplyDeletehttp://occupymaulstreet.blogspot.com/
*Disclaimer...I wish I was Making This Up!
@DubV said...
ReplyDeleteSputnik, I don't think these folks are saying that they hate every single dog without exception...
Take a real look at the DHU blog. The woman writing it is a full-blown narcissist (amateur diagnosis here). At some point, Animal Uncontrol wrote a post pointing out that it's okay to complain, but you also need to take action -- write letters and such. AU included lots of useful tips about what we can do.
DHU came back with a truly venomous post. She said all she wants to do is complain but not do anything, and who the fuck is AU to suggest differently? She said AU was trying to drive traffic to his/her own blog by mentioning hers...and various other delusions of grandeur fantasies. She said 'at least I don't post here about how to knit booties for a service dog like you do at AU'.
Then when AU didn't respond by getting into the fight mode narcissists love so much, DHU trotted over to his yard to piss there -- more than once. She left a number of comments as yet trying to start a fight and win.
The 'I'm not against service dogs' is likely the narcissist's bow to a slap in the face from public opinion. The narcissist realizing her public self didn't go down so well.
This person is, if she has children, raising them to be entitled pieces of shit just like the kid in the blog -- is my guess -- since she is, in her own way, not much different from this PB-kid in the video as far as the narcissism goes.
I stick adamantly by my comments about human neonates as mammalian animal young in their first years, whom you can only raise well if you are willing to understand general mammalian developmental processes and needs. S/he who feels no empathy with animals will only see that animal human baby as an extension of their narcissistic self. Sometimes it'll maybe work out okay, but there's a reason we're in so much trouble now with what's being raised by this kind of mother. There is also a reason that child abuse and animal abuse are so closely related statistically. It is apparently much easier for those who feel no empathy with an animal to also abuse a human child.
And again: the main problem is too many of us -- and maybe consider not reproducing. And if you do, maybe consider that I don't feel like running into your screaming, spoiled children in the restaurant (or any public place) anymore than you want to hear my dog bark.
The people in this discussion not only lost me, but also revolted me, -- yes, YQN, I also mean you -- when they were pleased about a dog being hanged to death. If it comes out that the hanged dog was a pit bull, I won't mourn. But this is because a pit bull presents a life and death danger to everything within at least a five mile radius, besides being extremely insensitive to pain and utterly indifferent to any and all social relations (anything that lives is up for killing).
A normal dog that barks all day is telling that he's extremely lonely and unhappy. I think it's disgusting that people would smile at such an already unhappy animal hanging to death -- no matter their frustration. Comes a point where 'understanding' the frustration stops, because a boundary is crossed. It's been crossed with me.
Everyone else here can and will of course make up their own minds. But I don't at all like seeing a blog that's about mauling, maiming, dismembering and killing attacks being diverted to say 'gee, barking is just as bad, dogs suck in general.' I understand that the barking problem needs addressing -- but if this blog becomes a coalition against dogs and a platform for pure whiners, I'll be...let's just say disappointed and sad.
ReplyDeleteive come across full-blown dog haters and they seem to not understand the difference between them and us . most of us have dogs and dont let them bark and crap everywhere and injure and kill things and people. dog haters though, hate all dogs equally and would even keep a pit-bull for killing other dogs if they were not so compulsively opposed to them . i also suspect that pitters are often a type of dog or cat hater because they freely profess their hatred after their pit kills something . these people though , are like that baby pit-nutter above , in that they have no real love for their dogs , they keep them for other reasons .
Sputnik,
ReplyDelete"Take a real look at the DHU blog."
I wasn't commenting directly about DHU blog, which I haven't read. I was commenting on what I thought were general statements like "I think there is something seriously wrong with humans who don't like other animals." So, it seems we are writing at cross-purposes here. I'll check out the blogs you mentioned as time allows.
"The people in this discussion not only lost me, but also revolted me, -- yes, YQN, I also mean you -- when they were pleased about a dog being hanged to death. If it comes out that the hanged dog was a pit bull, I won't mourn."
ReplyDeleteI don't hate pit bulls in the sense that I wish to see them injured and to suffer. I "enjoy" videos like justice mule because it represents the aggressor being stopped. It is like the guilty pleasure of watching a scrawny kid catch a bully with a good upper cut and leveling him. I couldn't watch a video where a pit bull was hung anymore than I could one where a mule jumped a fence and stomped to death a pit bull that was minding its own business at the time. I view pit bulls as I do Frankenstein's monster. They are still dogs to me, but among the undesirable breeds that would be rare to nonexistent if cooler heads prevailed because they are a net negative for human and dog society.
"S/he who feels no empathy with animals will only see that animal human baby as an extension of their narcissistic self."
ReplyDeleteAre you aware of mirror neurons?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_neuron#Empathy
They are fascinating, having many functions, and I think they should be studied heavily among populations with different empathy levels.
" most of us have dogs and dont let them bark and crap everywhere and injure and kill things and people."
ReplyDeleteI think quite a few readers find craven because their peaceful dog was attacked by a pit. That's the case for me.
My four legged partner was attacked by a pit as well. We were both injured, he got the worst of it by a long shot. Up until that day I had no specific thoughts on pits at all, they were just not on my radar. I suspect most folks are the same. Once you see pit bull violence you can never unsee it. This is where public safety advocates come from.
ReplyDelete"I "enjoy" videos like justice mule because it represents the aggressor being stopped"
ReplyDeletethat's is an important distinction. i don't condone violence against pit bulls who are safely contained on their property anymore than i condone hanging the neighbor's dog for barking. i do understand how people can be driven to solve a problem that the system is unable or unwilling to address.
ReplyDeletedog lovers, mutant haters unite and fight this scourge of bull-shite . reject the gutless officialdom that would have us living in fear and danger just so the entitled minority can keep their mutants without regard for the rest of us .
ReplyDeleteapril 29
theres nothing like a mutant attack to educate a person on the subject of fighting dogs out there as pets for the great un-washed . its really irksome to be told by some brainless dingbat or baby pit-nutter or knowitall snot-yuppy that we need educating on the subject of shitbulls, when we already have , in this harsh unforgiving way. fuck em .
Thank you Snarky, your understanding of the problem is perfect. You are the king of common sense.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteTHE GREAT UNWASHED
not sure exactly where i heard that but it stuck in my mind i guess. every town has em , raggedy ass bizzarre folk hanging around mooching for their next fix of whatever it is . dont buy them food though cuz that will just enrage them, cold hard cash is what they need. if you have a heart that bleeds just remember what these folk breed ..... pit-bulls and baby pit-nutters in need.
First of all that person should be put down and his friend and his friends uncle. Second I work at a shelter and that retard is the exact reason we are forced to euthanize so many pits and pit mixes and why we do thorough background screening before we allow pit adoptions.
ReplyDeleteThat being said I grew up with Irish setters, pointers, retrievers, a chow beagle mix, a whippet, border collie, cockapoo, bull dog, boxer lab, Pitts, and German Shepards. I have never not had a dog in my life. The smallest dog we've owned is a 4lb chihuahua and the largest was a 160lb male Shepard. I have encountered many different dog personalities and traits than most. Each breed has signature attributes that make them desirable and indesirable at times. The only dogs we have owned that have ever bitten (whether a family member or a stranger) have been chihuahua, border collie, and whippet and they were not without their reasons.
But I will say this .... I currently have a 60lb unaltered male pit whose name is Benson. We found him in a parking lot he only weighed 20lbs at ~6months of age and had ever worm imaginable, along with mange and several life threatening illnesses. The week we found him we were told he would not survive and that was 2 years ago. We brought him into our house that already had 2 other large grown dogs. Since that time he has been an amazing addition to our lives. I am not crazy. I have NO tattoos. I do have pierced ears ;). I don't have crazy streaks in my hair. I graduated with honors and a biology degree from USC. I worked as a Nursery Supervisor throughout college where my Pitt bull was a regular and a favorite ... Especially around this time of year because the kids loved to dress him up in costumes. I am the daughter of a doctor and a landscape architect, who is on her local humane society board. I recently became an Aunt to a sweet boy whom both my dogs adore. My pit bull sleeps in my bed (normally with more room than I or my husband have).
So I guess I am one of these nutters that owns a mutant dog.
But when I walk down the street with my dog do I left random strangers run up to either of my dogs? No. Because being a responsible dog owner means that I am cautious. My dogs are both over 60lbs and Benson's ancestors were bred to bring down bulls 10x his size. Could he knock someone over? Yes! Can he jump 5 feet in the air? Yes! But I know this and have trained him to act appropriately. I do not let strange dogs run up to him or large men approach me thay he doesnt know when I am walking him, because he is the most loyal dog I ever met and would protect me to the death. Would I be proud of him if someone attacked me and he but their hand off ? Hell yes! But would I ever left myself get in that position... Much less post a YouTube video about it? No! My dog is a lover because he was raised that way and in more cases of dog attacks than not there are underlying circumstances. If you threaten any animal, it will protect itself. And I know you all think I'm crazy but I am exposed to new pitbulls everyday at the shelter and it sickens me when I see what they have been subjected to.
I truly feel for all of those people and animals that have harmed or even killed by pit bulls. It is terrible and I would never forgive myself if my dog did this. I hope more parents teach their children to approach dogs with caution and always ask permission before petting a dog.
ReplyDeleteI have picked up several pit bulls off the street and taken them to shelters and never been attacked .... I have been around enough dogs in my life to respect their size, nature and body language. I have no doubt that any dog is capable of attacking and the larger their size the greater the potential for damage, but seriously, do you think ownership and training have nothing to do with it? Half the dogs in the shelter I work at are 80+ lb labs who were never taught so much as sit or stay as a puppy and end up being so destructive the family just gives up on them. All because they didn't train them properly and spend time with them expending their crazy amount of energy. I think that if more restrictions were placed on who could own what dogs and who could breed them, things would be very different.
The kid in that video shouldn't be aloud to own any dog. He clearly can't afford it if his house is I'm foreclosure and he can't offer it a stable living environment. His ignorance speaks for itself. But please DO NOT lump me in any category with that kid.
erin, if your dog would defend you to the death , how does that make him a lover ?
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteerin , i do agree that "that person",the baby pit-nutter? should be put down , but i find that a strange comment coming from an honor student , daughter of a doctor and professional mother. i do believe you when you say the mutant sleeps with you and hubby and hogs the bed. lol
ReplyDelete" THEY WALK AMONG US ....AND THEY BREED "
LOL , not
ReplyDeleteerin , my dog has been trained as a "dingbat alert dog " and when i just turned on my computer he pricked his ears , howled and tried to pull me away from the computer. i shit you not .
Benson isn't altered because he has masticatory myositis (called MMM) and extraocular myositis (EOM). It is most common in King Charles and Goldens, but any dog can have it. It is a condition that results in his immune system attacking his masseter and temporal muscles, causing inflammation and destruction. Luckily it is treatable with prednisone (yes my pit is on steroids), but the damage that occurs is irreversible. We had a wonderful vet who conferred with experts that believe male dogs with the condition have better prognosis when they remain unaltered. The research we have found is inconclusive, but we trust the vet we saw for the problem because they had seen many cases before. The side affects of the drug make him inhale water and bloat, but we keep him very active so he doesn’t become overweight. We have tried to taper down his dosage; unfortunately this has always caused relapses, which are very painful to him. He is currently on a very small maintenance dose every other day and seems to feel great, but we always look for warning signs of a flair-up. He still has some facial muscle but will never look as boxy as he should. This combined with the fact that he was extremely malnourished as a puppy means that he is on the small side… he doesn’t lack strength (or energy) though. Long story short… my Husband and I decided not to alter him unless we had reason to. Our boxer-lab is fixed and all of our family dogs are as well. We keep him in our yard which is fenced. We don’t leave our dogs out without supervision for long periods of time, so Benson running off to find a mate isn’t a problem. We keep him on leash in public and at dog parks incase he did find a lady he liked. But he has also never humped anything in his life. He is now almost 3yrs old and I think we are out of the woods in that respect.
ReplyDelete@snarky…
We lived in a city setting at our last home and not far from a bus stop. My husband worked in a different city during the week and I was home alone M-F. Homeless people and other creeps would come in the middle of the night and sit on our porch swing or come up to me asking for money, etc when I would be in my yard. Neither of my dogs would let these people near me and all I had to do was leash either or both of them and go out on my porch and the people got the message. However my dogs know (just like any animal) when there is a threat or not. I could have 25 people in my house and my dogs would be mingling and enjoying the extra attention with 0 issue. I cut his nails, brush his teeth (that’s the future dentist in me), give him shots and have never seen a single sign of aggression. He is my shadow and if I have been running around the house cleaning or what not and finally sit down he typically collapses in my lap. I can’t explain this to someone who doesn’t get it, but a lot of people do get it … he is a lover, but a loyal protector too. I don’t let him jump up on our friends or give them kisses unless they say it is okay and I put both dogs up when I have someone over who is uncomfortable around dogs. I won’t push my dogs on anyone, but I genuinely enjoy coming home to them. And quite frankly I have met more people with less redeeming qualities than most dogs.
ReplyDeletesomeone also said:
dont try to reason with them, it will just enrage them.
ReplyDeleteErin? did something happen to you when you were small?
the night whisperer
I'm not enraged and I see what you see. But I just mean to explain to you that ownership has a lot to do with actions of an animal. And I feel like your opinion is similar to ...
ReplyDelete"Because you are the offspring of two alcoholics, you will be an alcoholic and do not deserve to exist....sorry about your luck."
The pitbull was bred by people to be lethal to bulls. Any pit today is the result of a lethal design, but it doesnt mean it will always be lethal. Stupid people should not be allowed to own them and stupid people should be educated on how to approach them or avoid them. If you cant just walk a bull down a city street, maybe we should consider who should be allowed to do so with the animal designed to kill one.
i just hope you are not too surprised if and when your mutant kills something or someone.
ReplyDelete@Erin "Stupid people should not be allowed to own them"
ReplyDeleteErgo, you should not be allowed to own a pit bull.
Please explain?
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteMUNCHUASENS BY PROXY
pls explain
sick pitbull puppy
His condition was diagnosed after a muscle tissue biopsy confirming the disorder. So Munchausens by Proxy doesn't apply.
ReplyDeleteErin,
ReplyDeleteYour alcoholic parent analogy is busted, for obvious reasons. Also, you got the breed history mostly wrong. The main reason for the current form/function of a pit bull is to fight other dogs. If origins meant as much as you think on current form, then why not keep gong as far back in evolutionary time as possible to get the real scoop? In that case, a pit bull was actually originally a single-celled organism.
Further, the point isn't that a pit bull must necessarily be dangerous, it is that it is MORE LIKELY to be. Using your drinking theme, not all drunk drivers are equally dangerous. Some that are mildly inebriated are probably still more safe than the average driver, if that mildly inebriated person is being very careful and is an excellent driver in general. However, decisions and laws don't work that way, for obvious reasons. That should explain why the possibility of a safe pit bull shouldn't change too many minds.
ReplyDeleteyou shouldnt play this game erin . stick to dialogue with vet techs , shelter volunteers , childhood regression therapists ect
Exactly. Just like the child of an alcoholic wont necessarily be an alcoholic ... Just more likely to be.
ReplyDeleteThis conversation won't make me look at my dog differently and chances are it won't adjust your opinion either. I am just exposed to many of these dogs everyday and feel that your view is obscured by your prejudice ... And my only intention was to maybe shift your aim to the people responsible .... Rather than the dog.
Erin,
ReplyDeleteI couldn't possibly subject myself to reading your large, paragraph break free, walls of rambling text.
From skimming though, you likely can't predict events based upon cause-and-effects chains well enough to safely keep a power breed. You will be continually surprised by it, is my guess.
Also from skimming, you are basically trying to give us your life story with dogs and pit bulls. Why do you think that reading something from a single person who has a pit bull should modify our stances? I know that personal testimonies like yours are used in commercials all the time, and they work on people because our emotions are often more powerful than our intellects.
Still, it is narcissistic for you to think that your experience should matter to anyone in the face of mountains of evidence that pit bulls are a breed not fit to live near people and pets.
"Exactly. Just like the child of an alcoholic wont necessarily be an alcoholic ... Just more likely to be."
ReplyDeleteYes Erin, but this isn't a point in your favor. When making decisions about the future without full knowledge (we never have enough knowledge to fully predict the future, obviously), then you make decisions based upon the probability of various outcomes.
For instance, if I do action X how likely are all possible outcomes and how desirable are each outcome?
This method of decision making is the backbone of an entire field of study related to making good decisions (decision theory).
We don't make decisions based upon mere POSSIBILITY. I could be struck by lightning today. Should I stay in? That shark might not be interested in me. Should I go for a swim with it?
Yes, it is possible for pit bulls to be harmless, but only a fool wants to find out.
"And my only intention was to maybe shift your aim to the people responsible .... Rather than the dog."
ReplyDeleteThis is where your framing, and that of the larger humane community, goes off the tracks.
A dog does not have moral agency and therefore things like blame, fault, responsibility, etc. ring hollow when attached to them. Therefore, it follows that humans are always to blame, and if you can't blame the dog, then the dog and its breed had no part in it.
That is the slight of hand that you are playing or having played on you.
A dog and its breed can very well be a causal factor when it comes to a bad outcome. Whose teeth are biting anyways? Also, the human and their decisions around the dog can contribute to the physics of what actually happened.
That is the conversation about reality that I am interested in having.
The emotional one from the humane orgs is not helping.
I cited my experience because I have and do come in contact with numerous pits on a daily basis and am not basing my stance on news articles about irresponsible pet owners that bite off more than they can chew and pay the price or in the worst cases , other people or animals pay the price.
ReplyDeleteI originally responded to this blog because it bothered me that you saw all pit bull owners as you see this kid in the video, when I just don't see the similarities.
"But I just mean to explain to you that ownership has a lot to do with actions of an animal."
ReplyDeleteHave you read anything here where someone stated that the owner has ZERO effect?
Erin, two things can be true at once. Pit bulls can be more dangerous on average and also owners can have an influence. In a specific attack, two things can both be true and interact. The owner might stink and the dog might be unsound genetically as well.
You are coming here to educate us with the spin job you've gotten, one that we've heard so many times that we can anticipate the next part of it while reading.
This goes all the way up to top behaviorists and vets. It is hard for nutters to believe, because it sounds good to them, that these educated folks are seeing this incorrectly and that a group of people they met on the internet have figured them out.
Right so shouldn't people on this blog be calling for harsher punishment or better laws regarding irresponsible dog ownership? Instead of getting all excited when a dog is hung and burned? It's sick.
ReplyDelete"I cited my experience because I have and do come in contact with numerous pits on a daily basis and am not basing my stance on news articles about irresponsible pet owners that bite off more than they can chew and pay the price or in the worst cases , other people or animals pay the price.
ReplyDeleteI originally responded to this blog because it bothered me that you saw all pit bull owners as you see this kid in the video, when I just don't see the similarities."
Where did you read a universal statement that ALL pit bull owners are like this kid? I didn't see one. All pit bull owners are misguided in some way that causes them to own a pit bull, but they aren't all so bad.
Here's the thing, Erin, experience is not enough. Why would I trust your daily experience and what you have synthesized from it? Personal experience like this can actually be the most misleading. Experience is not enough, you must understand common traps in thinking and how your emotions color your observations and conclusions, among other things.
If experience were so primary, then all 60 year olds would be wiser than all 40 year olds, and it just isn't the case.
It's interesting though that people who seem to learn the least reliable information from their experience are also those most likely to play the experience card to try and get their way.
"Right so shouldn't people on this blog be calling for harsher punishment or better laws regarding irresponsible dog ownership? Instead of getting all excited when a dog is hung and burned? It's sick."
ReplyDeleteWere you not aware that this blog is several years old, and to get a full sense of its history in terms of writers and commenters, you would need to look around a bit?
I didn't read anything in the original post about dog burning and excitement. I haven't mentioned dog burning and anything positive. You did know that this is a public blog and that views expressed here do not reflect some hive mind, right?
As far as better laws, we do advocate for those, but many of us also feel that tea cup yorkies and fighting breeds should be treated differently. We lose most of the "educated" dog folks with that cruel twist, however.
Then help me understand your ideas better. What would you do to resolve this?
ReplyDeleteI agree that is a good point. There is a difference between the nip of a 4lb dog and that of a 150lb dog.
ReplyDelete"Then help me understand your ideas better. What would you do to resolve this?"
ReplyDelete1. accurate information and proper framing of this problem, and destruction of dog related propaganda and bad arguments
2. let an informed public make decisions in a democratic process
3. what would I specifically suggest? the best thing that could happen to pit bulls and the pubic is to make their breeding slow to stop. common sense policies that recognize the difference among breeds of dogs should be enacted. first bite is free laws and other ways that dogs and dog owners get away with things should be demolished
ReplyDeleteerin , i dont really think baby pit-nutters should be dirt-napped but you do have a very good idea there...lol
erin , i cant understand u rescue dingbats getting so worked up about a mere breed of dog .!!!!!!!!! with all the murderers and diddlers out there preying on our future pit-nutters you should be blogging for the death penalty of diddlers not baby pit-nutters.
ReplyDeletei know , i know , this getting really weird .
ReplyDeleteErin,
ReplyDeleteI'm thinking your just a tragic accident waiting to happen.
You said, "Neither of my dogs would let these people near me and all I had to do was leash either or both of them and go out on my porch and the people got the message."
You said, "However my dogs know (just like any animal) when there is a threat or not."
First, it's YOUR JOB to protect YOUR DOGS. Don't put them in a situation where they are required to make a life-threatening decision based on your lack of preparedness. If it's true, "It's all in how you raise them", if your pit mauls or kills someone, what should happen?
Second, Pit bulls, because of the reason they are pit bulls, have a lack of discrimination and that could prove fatal for yourself or someone close to you.
You said, "I won’t push my dogs on anyone"
I doubt that! I've read your comments, I don't see modesty about your pit bulls in any of your comments. In fact, I've been reading this blog for some time and I think you've spoken more about your pits in this one thread than I have the entire time I've been posting here.
Also, you have a "boxer-lab" mix. From my experience, it's just another pit bull. There seems to be an awful lot of "lab-boxer" mixes in this world, more than any other mix. Usually, pit nutters love putting the "lab" part first, implying that the mutant is more likely to behave like a lab, than a "boxer". That is until the nanny dog "locks on" to someone's 10 lb. companion. I think pit nutters just like to think pit bulls more closely resemble a lab and they think they can get away with saying that tired phrase "he/she is a lab-boxer mix *self-entitled smile*".
Pit bulls are, by a long shot, the most dangerous breed around. Statistics prove this. If you really want protection, why not ask your parents contribute $15k-25k for a REAL protection dog? Or how about a $20 can of MACE? It would make more sense because, for whatever reason, if your pit goes into "protection mode" unprovoked and even provoked, it could cost you much more and $15k would seem like chump change after that.
Erin,
ReplyDeleteIn case you do decide to get a real protection dog and not let your self-trained "protector" make decisions for you, any reputable protection dog trainer does not and will not train a pit bull for the purposes of protection.
erins mutant has been trained to be a lover but would defend her to the death.
ReplyDeletesure , maybe half of thats true or none of it , either way ive heard it all before . dingbats defending their bad choices in life and expecting others to go along .
Erin, sometimes the pit bull protection dog protects you...
ReplyDeletefrom you. Pit bull owners and pit bull rescue angels end up dead far more frequently that say, Poodle owners, or Beagle owners, or Chihuahua owners. You get the drift here.
Be careful with Benson. Darla Napora thought Gunner was safe too, she trusted him with her life and he ended it.
"I am just exposed to many of these dogs everyday and feel that your view is obscured by your prejudice"
ReplyDeleteDITTO!
"All pit bull owners are misguided in some way that causes them to own a pit bull, but they aren't all so bad."
some are worse.
in addition to DubV's suggestions:
mandatory liability insurance
special containment
license owners and dogs
restricted from dog parks
restricted from service dog work
i looked but i can't find anything about surgical castration and the illnesses you listed above i can't find anything about neutering and prednisone.
ps prednisone is a corticosteroid. do you realize there is a difference between corticosteroids and anabolic steroids?
"I think it's disgusting that people would smile at such an already unhappy animal hanging to death -- no matter their frustration."
ReplyDeletewhat did i miss? who is smiling about a dog hanging?
ReplyDeleteyea , carefull you let benson have the lions share of the marital bed even if it means hubby sleeping on the couch .
ReplyDeletecraven , did u miss something ?
just a mutant hanging and burning
I would invite Erin to look into exotic pet ownership and the issues surrounding that. People own non-domesticated predatory animals and spend every day around them. They typically say the exact same thing pit owners do (about how their lion or bear is "harmless" because they have been raised lovingly). Do you think their perception of things is any less valid than yours? Of course not. They just have a hard time dealing with what they see each day and how they feel about the animals vs the fact of what the animals are. Animals are unpredictable, and predatory ones can be dangerous to other animals (or humans if they are big enough). Selective breeding helps lessen the risk of death with animals (domestication), but unfortunately pit bulls have been selectively bred to be unpredictably dangerous rather than to be consistently tame.
ReplyDeleteAs far as asking what can be done- the breeding of fighting dogs needs to end. There is not any reason to breed fighting dogs in a society that rejects dog fighting for being inhumane. Making dogs that will subject themselves and others to pain is a terrible thing, it is proof of the depth of human depravity.
ReplyDeleteerin :
my little bird dog has been trained to not like birds but if i ever told him to , boy , he sure would . good thing i dont shoot birds no more and the dog understands this .
Erin is a responsible pit bull owner...who took her unaltered pit bull with an unknown history to her job in a nursery school and allowed the children to dress it up.
ReplyDeleteErin is the university educated daughter of a doctor yet can't spell "allowed".
Hmmmmmm. I've seen this before, somewhere...
Sorry blogging on your phone can do that. There were several grammatical errors in several blogs. What's your degree in?
ReplyDelete@dawn here's an actual scientific article http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1385419/pdf/immunology00137-0065.pdf
Testosterone suppresses the immune system. My dog suffers from MMM, which causes immune-mediated inflamation of the facial muscles. Testosterone is produced in the testicles. Castration is the removal of the male reproductive organ. This would allow his immune system to increase its activity. Does that help?
Also I was just making a joke about the steroids thing... Thought it may get a laugh ... Sorry.
@BB let me know if you find any errors :)
"Erin is the university educated daughter of a doctor yet can't spell "allowed"."
ReplyDeleteThat pit nutters often feel the need to spell out some supposedly impressive resume speaks volumes.
When you have reality on your side, there is no need to mention anything about yourself.
Skeptifem reminded me on Dude's comment. I re-post it here every few months.
ReplyDelete"Count me as a "hater" because of what I love!
I love when communities make public safety a priority. I love the freedom to move about without being menaced by pit bulls. I love when children can play in their own front yards, without the risk of pit bulls in their neighborhoods. I love when a grandmother can go to the mailbox, or garden around her home without being mauled.
I am not a hater for hates sake, but for the love of security and freedom for those least able to defend themselves. I’m a hater of willful ignorance. I’m a hater of lies and deception. I’m a hater of cowards. I’m a hater of depraved indifference. I’m a hater of evil creations. If we lived in a world without depravity and evil, pit bulls would have never come to exist!
I’m a hater out of love and respect for the victims of pit bulls – those who endure the scars without fairness or justice, and those who rest in peace. I’m a hater out of love and respect for all those who will become victims of pit bulls: children, mothers, grandmothers, war heros, and thousand upon thousands of innocent pets.
So long as evil exist, selfishness, cowardice, depravity – everything that constitutes the perverse infatuation and advocacy for dogs created by the scum of the earth, I will steadfastly remain a hater. I am a “hater” out of love - my love for the innocent and my desire to keep them safe."
@rumpel
ReplyDeleteI don't own my dogs for protection but when a scary black man comes on my porch I let him believe he could be lunch. I see no harm in that. If he got close enough to me that my dogs could touch him that's his problem. Do people not respond differently when approached in a threatening manner? Luckily that is not an everyday occurrence.
I do protect my dogs, they are trained and vaccinated and not neglected and chained outside my house. They play very well with other dogs because they were socialized properly.
@BB would it have been okay if it had been a different dog breed? And why would the fact that he was unaltered have mattered? I did not pick him up off the street and walk him straight into the nursery.
"I don't own my dogs for protection but when a scary black man comes on my porch I let him believe he could be lunch."
ReplyDeletewoopsie
And I felt the need to list my credentials as well as my lack of tattoos and piercings because people in this blog felt that all pit bull owners are hoodlums and irresponsible dog owners that live in squaller and I just didn't see the similarity.
ReplyDeleteAnd propaganda works both ways guys. You are much more likely to suffer a deadly bite from a mosquito than a pit bull.
ReplyDeleteYes, "woopsie" indeed.
ReplyDeleteAnd intelligent/educated people don't have to brag about their (supposed) credentials. The way that they present themselves speaks for itself.
As Erin is doing here, for our edification.
So she is "educating" us, after all!
"And propaganda works both ways guys."
ReplyDeleteThis makes no sense.
"You are much more likely to suffer a deadly bite from a mosquito than a pit bull."
Citation, please...?
http://www.privatemdlabs.com/blood-testing-news/Infectious_Diseases/2012-was-second-worst-year-for-West-Nile-Virus$800889053.php
ReplyDeletePit bull related deaths this year =27 as of yesterday.
Also this is a very interesting article that you may have missed. And, yes, pit bulls are rated 3rd in serious aggression toward unfamiliar dogs, but notice the owner/stranger related aggression.
http://www.greyhoundpets.org.au/publications/ResearchArticleWhichBreedsareMostAggressive.pdf
Again sorry if you find any spelling errors :/
I don't feel that I have been bragging, but I apologize if it seemed that way. Just stating facts about my background and also personal experience with the breed, that most of you appear to be lacking. We obviously have differing viewpoints, but I appreciate the discussion...especially responses that critique things other than my spelling or background.
ReplyDeleteIf any if you have been attacked by put bulls or any other breeds I am truly sorry to hear that.
Miss Margo,
ReplyDeleteThe difference is we are controlling the mosquito population but not to much the pit bull population. Where are those mosquito lawyers and mosquito apologists?
I was curious and looked it up.
http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/23/fast-facts-on-west-nile-virus/
2012 - 2,636 cases of the West Nile Virus have been reported in 48 states with 118 deaths, according to the CDC.
2011 - 712 cases of West Nile virus are reported in 44 states and the District of Columbia with 43 deaths.
2010 - 1,021 cases of West Nile virus are reported in 40 states and the District of Columbia with 57 deaths.
2009 - 722 cases of West Nile virus are reported in 37 states and the District of Columbia, with 33 fatalities.
Of all the deaths, not one limb or scalp removed by a mosquito.
COCONUTS! You'd think Craven Desires was based in Hawaii, with all these coconuts falling around here!
ReplyDeletedid someone say COCONUTS?!
ReplyDeletebees, spiders, snakes, mosquitoes, hippos, crocodiles, sharks, leopards are all a part of NATURE. you can't compare the west nile deaths to the death by a man made man controlled fighting dog.
ReplyDeleteBut do you seriously walk outside in fear that you will die from pit bulll attack. That is the point I was trying to make. If your children are playing in your front yard they are more likely to be bitten and killed by a mosquito than a pit. I'm not saying there is any comparison in the bite.... But they are not even the most likely breed to attack.
ReplyDeleteI understand wanting to avoid a large breed that you fear, and that is obviously your God given right, but to call for the extinction of an entire breed is ridiculous. How about just the extinction of the irresponsible breeders and those cruel people that enjoy watching animals destroy each other for sport.
We don't keep mosquitoes as pets, we actively try to thwart death by mosquito, there is no apologia for mosquitoes, mosquitoes either kill you or you recover fully usually (there is no life changing mauling by mosquito), and one thing being more dangerous does not make another insignificant (otherwise, the only thing we'd all be worrying about would be asteroid impacts).
ReplyDeleteAnd you were saying?
http://www.greyhoundpets.org.au/publications/ResearchArticleWhichBreedsareMostAggressive.pdf
ReplyDeleteErin, this article has been bandied about quite a bit. There are two portions of the study. The second part is the one that includes pit breeds at all. The data collection method was anonymous internet survey that could be taken multiple times and lied on easily. Therefore, it has zero credibility.
"people in this blog felt that all pit bull owners are hoodlums and irresponsible dog owners"
ReplyDeletePlease show us these universal statements.
"But do you seriously walk outside in fear that you will die from pit bulll attack."
ReplyDeleteThere are people who lost a child to a drunk driver. They advocate against drunk driving, yet, I'm relatively sure they don't fear it continually.
Are you like many children with professional parents that think anything they throw at the wall should be taken seriously?
"f your children are playing in your front yard they are more likely to be bitten and killed by a mosquito than a pit."
ReplyDeleteAnd hence the invention of mosquito spray. Actually, west nile does not usually kill those over and under certain ages.
Are you aware of the concept of conditional probabilities?
What is the main concern of a parent living near a pit nutter? What is the main concern of a parent with a toddler living in an area where west nile is common?
"I understand wanting to avoid a large breed that you fear, and that is obviously your God given right, but to call for the extinction of an entire breed is ridiculous. How about just the extinction of the irresponsible breeders and those cruel people that enjoy watching animals destroy each other for sport."
ReplyDeleteAgain, please point to the specific calls for extinction.
How would we get rid of irresponsible breeders yet maintain this breed? The vast majority of pits are breed by the irresponsible. In fact, the entire breed was developed by the irresponsible and sadistic. As Dude's comment that I quoted points to, if people were always virtuous, then pit bulls would not exist.
Future pit bulls do not care whether or not they are ever born. What good reason could you possibly have for wanting this breed to continue, let alone as a somewhat common breed?
"I don't own my dogs for protection but when a scary black man comes on my porch I let him believe he could be lunch. I see no harm in that."
ReplyDeletegross erin. you're either a troll or a terrible human being. You came here to argue about how pit owners are not all horrible people and you let this bit of violent racist nonsense go, along with a bunch of other shit about how *your* fighting dogs are okay, its everyone else's that are the problem. Do you even read what people say after their pits attack? They all say that same fucking thing. They "somehow" escaped, they were "great with kids", they "must have been provoked", etc. No one thinks they are a bad owner. You're proving exactly what you didn't want to- that pit bulls tend to attract stupid people who behave in an antisocial manner. People who actually know what they are doing are an extreme minority and they tend to be people who understand the extra safety concerns involved with fighting dogs, not the people who deny that extra concerns exist. You're one more nutter in a series that show up here to prove how different they are from those "bad" owners. They generally are given the benefit of the doubt until they decide to talk about how they are backyard breeding or helping a known fighting ring or how their pits get into horrible fights all the time or whatever the fuck it is. This time its about how you think your dogs are there for your safety instead of the other way around, and how its totally kosher to characterize black people as violent criminals to justify having a dangerous animal. You've said some impressively stupid things in this thread- why should anyone give a fuck about anything you have to say at this point?
I was talking about an actual situation that occurred and it would have been no less scary if the person had been blue pink white or black. I was just talking about a very real thing that happened and it was more ab an invasion of property than race . Sorry for offending you.
ReplyDeleteDid you not see anything ab how closely I monitor my dog? He is never left unattended where he could escape. He was properly social and has been trained. If I tell him to sit and stay, you could walk by all day long and he wouldn't move. I put him away around people who are uncomfortable and don't let strange people or animals approach him with our permission. how is this wrong?
Also of all the attacks the dogs involved mostly likely fall in 3 categories:
1. Fighting dog (actually trained to attack and fight to the death) living at home as family dog.
2. Pit bull never trained, or exposed to various types of people and made to feel threatened by new situations, strangers or strange animals.
3. Rescued dog, past the critical period, given just food, water, and love and expected not to show signs of former abuse or neglect. Rescue dogs need the most work.
@garnet
if you don't think a dog can tell a threatening situation you have no knowledge of the animal. Any dog will respond to threats, some submissively some aggressively, across all breeds. Many breeds including many toy breeds aren't considered "good with children" because anything that quick moving children do, is considered a threat. Just because what scares you doesn't scare them, doesn't mean they can't feel threatened.
@dubV
ReplyDelete"...Professional parents..."
My parents have nothing to do with the matter. Other than I was lucky enough to be raised with an open mind. And I am not saying that in your shoes I would be able to reopen my mind. If my dog was attacked by another dog I would probably hate that specific dog or their owner for not being responsible, but I don't think I could judge the whole breed.
But I see my dog everyday and stray pits on a regular basis and many are capable of being great companions that need a lot of direction. And just because I'm out there saying Benson is great, doesn't mean I'd want all my friends to go buy dogs just like him.
Also I definitely think you had great ideas about how to remedy the situation.
*socialized
ReplyDelete* out
Erin
ReplyDeleteboy , skeptifem sure hit the nail on the head with that characterization of you and most other pitluvers that come here. you all pretty much have similar stories and viewpoints and seem to think you can come here and somehow educate us poor sinners and ignorants. never works though, cuz words are just so much hot air and when youre wrong youre wrong . im snarky for a good reason obtw , i just dont have the patience or desire to banter with you pitterine folk. i content myself with a snark instead of the pitbull style grab and hold . lol.
ReplyDeleteah well, old snarkys gettin tired.
one more snot-yuppie down , but tomorrows another day and there a whole fucking world of scumbags , dingbats and festering do-gooders out there.
And I am the troll? ;)
ReplyDeleteErin-
ReplyDeleteYou gotta be a moron if you don't know what kind of troll you are. Seriously, a bit of self examination is in order.
I arrived late to the party, and you're really rather dull, so that's all you get from me.
~another kind of troll
"@dubV
ReplyDelete"...Professional parents..."
My parents have nothing to do with the matter."
Exactly, they have nothing to do with this issue, and yet YOU brought them up.
I was speculating as to why you find your bad arguments so convincing.
"And I am not saying that in your shoes I would be able to reopen my mind. If my dog was attacked by another dog I would probably hate that specific dog or their owner for not being responsible, but I don't think I could judge the whole breed. "
ReplyDeleteI don't agree with you, so you think my mind is closed. It is not.
My dog being nearly killed was an important event, but I had seen and heard enough negative about this breed prior to that. After the attack, I began to investigate further. That attack was not sufficient reason for me to come to my current conclusion. My dog was attacked twice prior by shepherd mixes. I harbor no particular dislike against GSDs as a result, although they are a bit more dangerous than the average dog.
"Did you not see anything ab how closely I monitor my dog? He is never left unattended where he could escape."
ReplyDeleteFamous last words. You cannot guarantee that your dog will not get away from you ever. When your dog does, it is much better to not have a fighting breed.
"Also of all the attacks the dogs involved mostly likely fall in 3 categories:
ReplyDelete1. Fighting dog (actually trained to attack and fight to the death) living at home as family dog.
2. Pit bull never trained, or exposed to various types of people and made to feel threatened by new situations, strangers or strange animals.
3. Rescued dog, past the critical period, given just food, water, and love and expected not to show signs of former abuse or neglect. Rescue dogs need the most work."
Erin, this is where your exposure to shelter folks is actively harmful to your thinking process.
People who are involved with pit bulls do not actually track bad attacks on a large scale and know anything about them. With your little checklist, you could look at any attack that happened for another reason, and find a way to click one of your three boxes. You would then move along content that you had once again confirmed your pre-conclusion.
Your list leaves out the main victims of pits, that is other dogs. Pits have elevated levels of dog-directed aggression simply because of selective breeding. It's curious that people concerned with dogs often don't mention the attacks on other dogs by pits when discussing them. You'd think this would be a bigger concern.
Also, you are neglecting that two things can be true at once. A dog can attack someone because it was a pit AND something on your list. 2 and 3 occur in other breeds regularly, yet these other dogs do not attack at the same rates. There is often an interaction of several things.
Pit bull advocates insistence on all these things being done especially for pits means they realize these dogs are more dangerous, all else being equal.
Consider that you have an emotional attachment to a particular animal and that your thinking around the entire breed has been colored, just as you thought my attack closed my mind.
In what setting has your dog been attacked ?
ReplyDeleteAnd you are right there could be some freak accident where somehow my dog breaks free and roams the neighborhood. I would worry more ab him getting hit or finding some wandering cat then attacking a human or another dog. Would he not have acted on this predisposition to maul and kill other dogs and humans at the dog park? Not every pit bull is a killer.
Do you feel that you has a less negative view toward GS because they are bred less recklessly and typically owned by people who have the sense to train their dogs? They have the same ability to be destructive and same aggressive nature. But does it not have more to do with obedience, owner control, and breed control?
And I hope you don't feel that I'm being disrespectful ... I genuinely have appreciated your discussion and opinions and am very interested.
"if you don't think a dog can tell a threatening situation you have no knowledge of the animal. Any dog will respond to threats, some submissively some aggressively, across all breeds. Many breeds including many toy breeds aren't considered "good with children" because anything that quick moving children do, is considered a threat. Just because what scares you doesn't scare them, doesn't mean they can't feel threatened."
ReplyDeleteIt is ridiculous to think an animal can tell a real threat and act preemptively with the correct force level. You admit as much when you state that small breeds often feel threatened and attack. You have admitted that a dog's since of threat usually doesn't match what I person would evaluate it as. That dogs that attack out of fear are fearful at the time is simply a circular argument and isn't a point.
I would never trust my dog to think with any subtlety. The only time I would want him to bite is if he or I were being violently attacked.
"Would he not have acted on this predisposition to maul and kill other dogs and humans at the dog park?"
ReplyDeleteNearly every pit bull org states it is a horrible idea to take a pit to a dog park, regardless of your observations of the animal.
You knew you had a fighting breed but thought you'd try out the dog park. Works for you because your dog isn't likely to be the one that gets hurt if your experiment goes awry.
"We keep him on leash in public and at dog parks incase he did find a lady he liked."
ReplyDeleteDo you take your dog to dog parks? Even with a leash, that is not prudent.
Also, the evidence that pit bulls constitute a public health problem is overwhelming and persuasive, with data and findings coming from multiple independent parties that have no political agenda regarding dogs. I think that you do the readers here a disservice when you chalk their opinions about pit bulls up to having a traumatic experience with a random "bad apple" pit bull.
"In what setting has your dog been attacked ?"
ReplyDeleteI'm not going there. You'll try to explain each situation to me, and I'll just get pissed off.
"Do you feel that you has a less negative view toward GS because they are bred less recklessly and typically owned by people who have the sense to train their dogs? They have the same ability to be destructive and same aggressive nature. But does it not have more to do with obedience, owner control, and breed control?"
ReplyDeleteGSDs do not have the same aggressive nature nor innate destructive ability as a fighting breed.
Much of the rest of what you asked can be broken into two questions:
Do I think nurture has an effect? Of course.
Do I think poor nurture (training, etc) explains what we see with fighting breeds? No.
Remember, 2 things can be true at once. Pit bulls are more dangerous, and (partly because of this) they often attract bad owners. The two things interact.
Now, you brought up reckless breeding of pit bulls. I agree, there is no breed stewardship, but the entire history of the dog was bad breeding. Fighting breeds were created by sadists. If good and responsible breeding had always been the case, then pit bulls would not exist.
I do believe that I am partial and I believe that we all are allowed our opinions. And I did say that pits were high on the list of dog-related aggression. And you are right they have been selectively bred for this in many cases. Which is why I don't let strange dogs run up to Benson without supervision. But I wouldn't let a strange dog run up to any of my dogs or family dogs without supervision no matter what their breed is. I choose to be cautiously optimistic based on my experience with him. If a dog ever acted aggressively toward my dog or my self I would remove myself and my dog from the situation and I pay other animal owners the same respect.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDelete@dubv I am sorry that question was not intended to be upsetting I was just curious. was not going to make comments ...
I feel that people who lack experience with Shepards talk about them in the same way people talk about pits. I owned 3 Shepards growing up, but I had friends that would not come over because we owned Max (160lbs, male). He never bit anyone and only growled at the ups man. He could not over just about anything but that was the extent of his damage. However there are restrictions to owning Shepards in some apartment complexes just like pit bulls citing their "size , jaw strength, and natural instincts".
I think that you are right ab breeding and I don't condone it. But I don't agree with breeding of a lot of dog varieties due to recklessness.
YES I AGREE that some people ruin it for all pit bull owners, but those are the scum and trolls. Do you think I would laugh like the kid in the video if my dog bit someone's hand? God, no. I would hope that my dog would protect me in a life threatening situation as I would protect him. But would I get in a fist fight in my front yard? Or let someone crate Benson with another dog known also for dog-related aggression. I did not buy my dog for his size, jaw strength, or aggression. I found him.
And he was on the street bc of people like that kid in the video.
I do take my dog to dog parks, our boxer lab is extremely social and has a lot of energy so the dog park was a great outlet for her. When benson was young we would let him play off leash too, but being an intact dog means that I keep him on leash because those are the rules and that's what is right even if he has never humped anything . Now that we have a fenced back yard we do not go as much but I still take benson out for walks on the pedestrian trail by our house. It is a very beautiful trail and has alot of traffic. Out of respect for other owners and dogs I don't let my dogs run up to other dogs without consent, and I appreciate it when people treat me the same way.
I have lots of comments to catch up on but I have flames coming out of my ears after reading this from the "educated" Erin
ReplyDelete" Just stating facts about my background and also personal experience with the breed, that most of you appear to be lacking. We obviously have differing viewpoints, but I appreciate the discussion...especially responses that critique things other than my spelling or background.
If any if you have been attacked by put bulls or any other breeds I am truly sorry to hear that."
Erin, we DO have experience with the breed. We were going on about the legal and peaceful details of living when pit bull violence randomly chose to change our lives. We don't get our peaceful lives back... ever. Mostly, if victims shut up and take their mauling quietly they will pay all their own medical expenses and suffer with lifelong pain and/or disfigurement and/or disability. Pit bull advocacy will take no further notice of us. If we have the nerve to consider this an unfair response to our mauling and we make reasonable requests for law to protect public safety (and I realize that my sentences run on but that happens when the flames come) pit bull advocacy turns on us with the same violence of the original attack.
Here is something that you may have missed Erin, every victim says the same thing when a reporter holds a microphone in front of our stunned, dirty, bloody faces and asks for a comment. We all say "nobody should have to go through this."
I am personally offended and enraged by pit bull advocates who tell me that I lack "personal personal experience with the breed." I am one of the luckiest pit bull victims ever, my scars so not show, my lifelong disabilities are relatively minor, my four legged partner lived but also suffers lifelong disability, I was compensated for my losses and expenses. Think long and hard before you have the nerve to tell me, or any other victim, that we "lack personal experience with the breed."
Take your self satisfied comments to pit-bullchat if you want a positive response.
*do not show*, the flames make me blind, sorry
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteto listen to this type of pitter gives the impression of master dog trainer , full time dog handler and person without distractions or other complicating factors in life. the real situation is somewhat different, im sure . these women talk as though they have every thing well under control and i think we all know that is just not the case.
erin
ReplyDeletei may seem like a troll but im just as serious and committed to this issue as any of the other cravenites. i just prefer to leave the reasoned and reasonable responses to those other dedicated victims and concerned folk who have the stomach for dealing nicely with assholes and idiots .
"Because you are the offspring of two alcoholics, you will be an alcoholic and do not deserve to exist....sorry about your luck."
ReplyDeleteJust saw this again from Erin. A potential genetic tendency for a trait in a human is not the same as selective breeding in dogs over 100s of years.
A closer analogy would be if we had selectively bred the worst alcoholics that showed onset early and horrible severity and did this for a few hundred years. Yes, children born of that line would, if there is a significant genetic component to alcoholism, be hobbled by their lineage.
yes , but i want to elaborate on the term "festering do-gooders ".
ReplyDeletei firmly believe that yeast bacteria in the female brain can cause a variety of nasty disorders and syndromes .
ie: " pitterine dingbatossis "
good grief, Erin is such a piece of work, I tried to read bits and bobbles of her BS, but really grew so sick and tired of it so quickly. Gotta wonder how why she was trying to act like such a pit hero and come to Craven's blog and try and "educate" these souls. What a freak. I, like April29, get beyond insulted, and quite frankly beyond pissed off reading their "go get educated comments" my education in the world of pits and their asshole owners came after my child was attacked. And the difference between my education, and yours Erin, is mine is based on truth, your is based on fooling yourself, then passing on your bullshit advice to others, so you can cloud the glasses they look at you through. You are an ego maniac choosing to own such a dangerous breed, especially if you have kids. If your pit attacks you, well...but if it attacks any kids you may have, well, imagine living with that...or can you allow your ego to take that kind of journey, likely not!
ReplyDeleteI love it when pitnutters get on here! OMG you guys kick ass! That's why I love reading on here! I'm in great hands because of the cravenites. AU could call me a "free rider" n he would b correct. For now....just on here reading n gettin my edumacation...
ReplyDeleteAnne,
ReplyDeleteYep, pit nutters are always screaming education. Like YOU and I need an education to take a walk on the public streets. Somehow YOU and I have no clue about how to behave around pit bull dogs, who of course are "like any other dog".
Next time I take a flight to Texas, I'll make sure to get a course on MIG fighter jets too...in case one attacks my plane.
She is trying to "educate" us but if you read some of the comments, we're educating her, LOL!
Remember, we're not the ones with pit bull dogs, SHE IS and from the responses, she got educated. I doubt she will heed any of our advice.
Hear, hear, Anne!
ReplyDeleteI hope that Erin thinks more clearly than she writes. That shit was hard to follow. I felt like I was grading papers, except that I wasn't getting paid for it.
ReplyDeletepitnutters , they come here all idealistic , thinking they will put us in our places, show us the error of our ways but instead they find they have not done their own homework and they are made to see themselves as we do and usually get uppity and beligerent and piss off back to where they came from , thankfully cuz we are, by then ,sick and tired of them. lol
ReplyDeletepitnutters and snot-puppies
ya gotta luv em....not
Great comment..
ReplyDelete"in the zombie apocalypse, i expect pit bulls to do well; their owners are not so likely to survive since planning, teamwork, and intelligence seem to be required. inability to control a dog (or put it on a leash) suggests inability to control oneself. i'm not preparing for the z'apoc, but fiction that eliminates idiots and rewards organizers continues to appeal. and the 1% would have to join the rest of humanity...maybe...."
from here
http://albany.patch.com/articles/dogs-in-custody-after-alleged-village-attack
found via dogs bite decatur al
Also of all the attacks the dogs involved mostly likely fall in 3 categories:
ReplyDelete1. Fighting dog (actually trained to attack and fight to the death) living at home as family dog.
2. Pit bull never trained, or exposed to various types of people and made to feel threatened by new situations, strangers or strange animals.
3. Rescued dog, past the critical period, given just food, water, and love and expected not to show signs of former abuse or neglect. Rescue dogs need the most work.
which one of these categories summarizes the darla/gunner scenario?
Dawn,
ReplyDeleteI think it's that pitbulls were bred to be nanny dogs and was only trying to play with the baby? ;)
I'm kind of amazed to see what's happened here. Thinking of the picture at The TRUTH About Pit Bulls, 'If you repeat a lie often enough it becomes truth'.
ReplyDeleteDawn, you don't have to train pit bulls to fight (your 1 above). The 'bait dog' thing is more a culling than a training process. A pit bull that has fought (be it in the pit or in the neighborhood by mauling a dog or child) might, may be more likely to do it again because it's discovered how good it feels. Given the number of pits that maul and kill upon their very first attack, I'm not sure any prior experience is necessary.
The unsocialized pit bull doesn't attack because it's frightened (your 2 above). You can socialize and desensitize a pit bull all you like, it will still attack just for the joy of it if you give it a chance to mate (for example) or it gets too excited because you're petting it, or someone sneezes, etc. Pit bulls attack without any emotional engagement at all except for the joy of doing what they were engineered to do. Fear has nothing to do with it, although that can of course be one of the hundreds of other triggers (such as air in the room).
Rescued DOGS (which pit bulls are not) aren't prone to attack. They are the ones that do 'bites' of the kind just enough to open an escape route. The main problem with second-hand DOGS is discovering what someone did to them. I've seen dogs panic when I picked up a stick to throw for them. Others if I showed them a leash. Yet others only if a man took over the leash. These aren't dogs that are just waiting for some excuse to attack cos attacking is such fun. They've learned that certain human actions are a signal that a beating or other torture is coming.
Well, and so on. Let's not let discussing with the millionth idiotic nutter make us lose sight of what real dogs are.
Dawn was quoting Erin with that list.
ReplyDeleteBLUSH! Thanks, DubV. I missed it because I didn't bother to read the nutter's walls of the usual functional illiteracies.
ReplyDeleteDAWN, my heartfelt apology. I thought it was kinda strange.
I think I need a break for a few days. See you guys in a bit, recomposed some I hope.
sorry for the confusion. i should have linked her gibberish to her original comment.
ReplyDeletei don't read most of nutter comments anymore, they rarely add anything new to the discussion. it's all copy and paste from the hivemind.
I wanted to ask people here who have children if they felt anxiety at the thought of trick-or-treating with their kids. Last year was fine but i was oblivious to the issue with pitbulls. This year i am full of anxiety about it because there are so many pb's in this area. With the attitude of the owners being so lax (they're just sweet and loving etc) i know these people probably wont take precautions, except for a minority of them. Part of me wants to cancel but i dont want to disappoint my kids. My anxiety is compounded because I have a fear of dogs to begin with because of past trauma. I imagine someone on here has felt this way. Any advice?
ReplyDelete@DubV -
ReplyDeleteYou said "It is ridiculous to think an animal can tell a real threat and act preemptively with the correct force level."
Well, I certainly wouldn't say it's "ridiculous" to think an animal can evaluate and respond appropriately to a threat, though there might be some differences of opinion on the matter. Livestock guardian dogs have been employed for centuries in Europe and Asia to do just that.
These livestock guardians are given autonomy in their role, working and making decisions independently. They spend their days and nights chilling with the herd, just hanging out. When a possible threat surfaces, they bark a warning. If the threat continues to approach, they approach the threat to try and discourage further encroachment. They engage in a gradual escalation up to the point killing the attacker if necessary, be it wolf, coyote or pit bull.
That's not to say nothing has ever gone wrong, but neither could one say that about humans, and overall their record over the centuries has been good.
Of course, we're not talking about mutants here, just normal working dogs. As we know, mutants are not livestock guardians. They are livestock torturers.
Has anyone noticed the wierd similarities between a lot of these alleged "educated" pit bull fans who come onto craven and try to engage posters here?
ReplyDeleteThe first step usually involves condemning the actions of a pit owner being discussed on the blog, with a disclaimer, "I own a pit, but I am not like that, I am reasonable and aggree with you".
Next comes the wierd, rambling self disclosure, which involves numerous details about themselves and their dog and their life. There is usually a lot of narccisistic self-promotion regarding their knowledge of dogs thrown in. At this stage, the poster is usually quite formal and overly polite.
They are quick to point out that they are "educated", and continue their pointless discussions with endless attention-seeking behavior. It soon becomes apparent that they are
1. Involved in pit rescue and have the typical fetish for the breed we see so often.
2. Are irresponsible pit bull owners who will justify their personal decisions (taking a pit bull to a dog park) despite the fact that ALL bully breed experts insist that that is a HORRIBLE idea.
After a while, when the craven posters fail to be swayed by what they believe is their brilliant rhetoric, they start to get nasty. I would say that phase is coming soon with Erin.
a brilliant summation branwyne.
ReplyDeletethis was playing out on occupy maul street a couple of days ago
"Well, I certainly wouldn't say it's "ridiculous" to think an animal can evaluate and respond appropriately to a threat, though there might be some differences of opinion on the matter. Livestock guardian dogs have been employed for centuries in Europe and Asia to do just that."
ReplyDeleteJake, you have a good point. I was thinking more in terms of dogs (especially the untrained variety) handling a threat from a human appropriately. I know there are police dogs, etc that have training in that role. Still, if a livestock guardian overreacts and kills a coyote that could've been driven off, it isn't in the same realm as overreacting to a meter reader that walks into the backyard. Just my thoughts.
Oh my, Dawn, thank you for alerting me to the action on OMS. That really brightened up my afternoon.
ReplyDeleteFrom the raving nutter (who, hilariously, wants to become a psychiatrist):
"I promise you..tomorrow I will tear this shit up. From beggining to end I will PROVE beyond a doubt that vintage is a fucking idiot that doesn't know shit. I'll stop with the swearing and the dumbass remarks and I'll spell check and everything. Also, I'll list links to legit sights..not wikapedia or some bullshit but actual scientifically proven shit and shit written by people that do more than write blogs for a living that will prove my point."
Pure, pure comedy gold. In fact, I almost wonder if one of the regular commenters here at CD is playing a practical joke.
My favorites: "actual scientifically proven shit" and "..and I'll spell check and everything!"
The "Do YOU know PLATO???!" challenge great, too. Actually, we could coin it as a joke term for whenever an "educated" nutter throws out their alleged intellectual expertise: The "Do YOU know Plato?!" gambit.
"My favorites: "actual scientifically proven shit" and "..and I'll spell check and everything!""
ReplyDeleteIt might end up being a good thing. A lot of people I've met who are former believers in psychics/homeopathy/mormonism/whatever started their journey out of the nonsense by insisting they would prove everyone wrong. They did the research and eventually came to the conclusion that they had been mistaken. I'm glad they will be searching for scientific data, its an opportunity for them to change.
TreeC- maybe you could bring a utility knife or a crowbar or something just in case. OR you could knock on the door first and leave if you hear dogs barking, avoid houses that you know have pits in them, etc. You can take precautions instead of abstaining.
ReplyDeleteTree-C perhaps can you take your children to a really upscale neighborhood to Trick or Treat. Not that there might not be a mutant in that kind of neighborhood, but they sure would be few and far between.
ReplyDelete---------
Branwyne, that was a wonderful analysis, spot on.
I commend all the regulars here for doing a superb job with your rebuttals to the current nutter who has come here to spout their nonsense.
As for OMS, I was wondering when their might be some similar conversation with the poster there.
PutMe Incharge, the aspiring psychiatrist (haahaha) nutter at OMS is too damn crazy for me to want to tangle with. Did you see the length and content matter of his rantings? This is the sort of loon who'll send you babbling hatemail for years after you get his attention.
ReplyDeleteWait, I stand corrected. Upon closer examination, the nutter is almost certainly a Freshman or Sophomore female undergrad.
ReplyDeleteAnd unhinged. Seriously, this is waaay beyond "Lay off the adderall; midterms are over."
She very well spend time in a "loony bin."
But she won't be on the staff.
Miss Margo,
ReplyDeleteAs for the aspiring psychiatrist, never has this saying been more true- "physician heal thyself"
I actually thought it was quite amusing that the poster just keeps adding to his own rant. He actually does not need a response to his own debate- he seems to be satisfied with only himself participating. I guess you could call him a masterdebater...............
The pit nutters posting on OMS are all in a rage.
ReplyDeleteThis is exactly the type of people who own pit bulls, but should never own a breed of dog with aggressive tendencies.
You have to wonder how they treat their dogs. I've read a few pit nutter comments from there and the pit nutters all seem unstable, just like their pit bulls. Both ready to snap at the slightest provocation.
"It's all in how you raise them", really?
I just skimmed the OMS thread. I'm speechless. A haunting catch-22 is how to use logic to convince the stupid that they are in fact dumb.
ReplyDeleteI do actually now carry a knife. Ill be sure to have it in a front pocket though instead of my purse. I dont think people would like me approaching their door with a tire iron so I'll leave that in my trunk :) I think the upscale neighborhood is a great idea. That's what I'm gonna do. Can't avoid them cuz I see them there too but they are more plentiful here. I wish pits had to be registered in a national database like pedos, then i could at least look on a map and see where they are to avoid them. Erins typical attitude about these dogs is what reminded me how anxious Ive been about Halloween because I picture someone opening their door and an unsecured mutant flying out. Im fearful and tend to anticipate stuff like that. Oh well hopfully we'll find a nice pitbull free neighborhood. Thanks guys!
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteguess there will be thousands of mutants dressed up for halloween . some of those frankenmaulers might turn out to be real and those poor tricker treaters gonna sure get more than they bargained for.
I hope not Snarky but I guess we'll be hearing some horrible story more than likely. Happens every other day of the year so.....
ReplyDeletea halloween story
ReplyDeleteErin D states :
ReplyDeletemy pitbull is harmless but he would defend me to the death.
snarky states :
the finely crafted tool i carry is not a weapon but it will stop a charging mutant in its tracks .
Treec
ReplyDeleteIf you can't have a gun then pepper spray, knife, and a large metal flashlight might suffice if you can't travel to a safer area. Also having several adults with you and your child should help, if possible.
ReplyDeletedont dress up as a black man even in a good neighborhood , you might encounter a harmless mutant and his dingbat owner.
@snark -
ReplyDeleteErin D states :
my pitbull is harmless but he would defend me to the death.
Pit bull owners often repeat this misconception. In saying this they do not seem to be aware of how often pit bulls attack and maim or kill their owners.
Pit bulls have a genetic imperative to attack, for no other reason that that it feels good to the creature to do what it was bred for. Although a pit bull may go years without this behavior being triggered, there is no way to predict or prevent it. When pit bull owners see this violent behavior, they often excuse it by saying that the pit is being "protective".
But no, rather than "protecting" anyone, the pit bull is just expressing it's genetic blueprint. Since pit bulls attack their owners so frequently, an action which is virtually unheard of with normal dogs, it begs the question "who are they supposed to be protecting when they kill their owners?"
ReplyDeleteyou just know these dingbats will have a ready excuse if their harmless mutant kills something/someone. yet when their mutant gets dirtnapped they cant understant why .
ReplyDeletewhen a dingbat sez her mutant is a sweety and an adorable lovebug she is not seeing things from the point of view of a black man on her veranda who is frozen in fear of said love bug.
ReplyDeleteOOPS
from
ReplyDeletehttp://www.dogsbitedecatural.com/2012/10/durant-ok-neighbors-2-pit-bulls-came.html
a headline
DURANT OK - NEIGHBOR'S 2 PIT BULLS CAME THROUGH A FENCE AND ATTACKED A BELOVED CHIHUAHUA "JETHRO" - THE OWNER FOUGHT THE PIT BULLS TO SAVE JETHRO AND SHE WAS INJURED ALSO
I think the problem with most pit bull owners is that they cannot comprehend the phrase "beloved chihuahua" or beloved a non-power breed, especially a smaller one. Fuck pit nutters. They are all covering in some way for the worst of their ranks.
I can't find how to follow occupy maul street. Has anyone found the correct button to push or is not follow-able?
ReplyDeleteblogger changed that feature a while back. you need to paste the url into your profile list of blogs you follow but now that blogger had forced every one into their new and improved interface, i don't know how to do it anymore.
ReplyDeletecomment of the week may have to go to..
ReplyDelete"This is were all the inbred methheads come on here and tell us that Pit Bulls are the kindest dogs on earth but the media just targets them and not other breeds. I say, go back inside your trailer house and continue having whoopie with your cousin. The fresh batch of tweaker powder will be ready soon and you can stay awake for the next week and enjoy your Pit Bull that you have to keep on a 3/8" chain as well as inside a make shift chain link fence. Yeah I know, your sweet little pit bull wouldn't hurt a fly but somehow I have trouble believing you and I don't know if it's because your dog just ate a poodle or the fact that you only have 3 teeth left in your mouth. Stay classy..................."
from
http://www.kxii.com/news/headlines/Pit-Bulls-kill-bite-woman-and-kill-small-dog-175316071.html
TreeC, the pit bull that terrorized my nice suburban neighborhood belonged to a college student. After she moved away and got marrried, she would come back to her parents on Halloween with her small children, AND HER PITBULL to trick or treat. She would also bring her young friends with their two pit bulls, one year they had one off leash!
ReplyDeleteWe sometimes dress my dog up and leash him to the porch railing to sit outsdie with my husband, while my husband gives out candy...I have a lot of steps, and we don't want to make the little ones climb them. My dog just likes to sit up on the landing. This group of pit owners walked by, and one pit bull saw my dog....from about 20 feet away, the pit started that high pitched whining and pulling on the leash...the way a lot of dogs act when they see a squirrel, hyper-focused, hard stare, whining and straining and barking. He clearly wanted to get at my dog, and the young owners were clueless...this pit was dog aggressive and should NEVER have been out walking around on Halloween.
I agree with the posters who say find an affluent neighborhood and trick or treat there. I started walking my dog in a very beautiful, affluent part of my town, and there are absolutely NO pit bulls. Your chances of encountering pit bulls in nicer neighborhoods are much lower than in middle and working class neighborhoods.
I always have to laugh when a dog owner claims that "my dog loves everyone, but would protect me with his life". Erin claims that her dog's aggression toward an unfamiliar stranger is because of his love for, and loyalty to, her. That's hogwash. Most of the time, when a dog puts on an aggressive display, it's because of fear. The man who seemed scary to Erin also seemed scary to the dog...he looked wrong, he smelled wrong, his voice was wrong, etc. The aggressive display had nothing to do with protecting his master, and everything to do with protecting himself. I know that's really hard for young narccisissts to wrap their heads around....that their dog is acting in his own best interests, and really doesn't spend any time worrying about you. The aggressive display is meant to make the person who makes the dog uncomfortable, go away. That's it.
ReplyDeleteAnd if the dog is allowed to decide that people that make him uncomfortable can be driven away with aggression, and that behavior is reinforced with praise from a delusional owner who believes the dog is acting out of "love" for her, you can soon end up with an animal who is more and more comfortable using aggression to stop a human from doing ANYTHING he doesn't want them to do....deliver a package to your house, come in the house to repair an appliance, jog too close while the dog is out on a leash walk.
It's similar to all the "hero" dog stories of dogs alerting their masters to a house fire. The "Dog Saves Family from Fire" headlines are harmless, but in reality the dogs frantic barking that woke the family (who surely would have perished in the fire) was because HE wanted to get the hell out of the burning house! If the dog could talk, he would be screaming "Wake up you idiots and open the door and let me out! If I had opposable thumbs I would do it myself!"
It seems part of the personality profile of pit bull owners....they anthropomorphize these dogs and project magical qualities onto them.
Pit bulls found in nicer neighborhoods are probably more likely to be covered by insurance.
ReplyDeleteBranwyn I was thinking of a small affluent town called Wenham where my older children's grandfather lives. It would be less likely to see them there but still all the propaganda is even affecting the more educated and I see pb's in the nicer neighborhoods too :/ My fear is that I'll see one and go into a panic as happened on the beach in NH over the summer. There were a few pit mixes but they seemed okay and preoccupied with their owner. Then one came bounding onto the beach and ran past us, owner was six or eight feet behind it. I told my husband to get the kids and I ran to the car. I sat in the car shaking and crying. It pisses me off that these people have no forethought that perhaps some people have had bad experiences with dogs. And as in your case, no forethought about other dogs. Even if I, or your dog, wasnt attacked theres still a measure of victimization there imo.
ReplyDeleteDubV I wish I had a gun. I have a knife but not sure if I could actually plunge it into anything....eeek! My husband cant go with us this year. My oldest son and daughter will be there but my daughter is very petite and my son isnt very physical, more the cerebral type. I can see us al now scrambling and trampling each other to get away lol. The only thing in my favor is a have a temper. When that kicks in, watch out. But yeah a gun would be ever so nice and less messy too.
One more thing I would like to share...in Sue Sternberg's wonderful book, "Successful Dog Adoption" she describes a certain type of adopter who is attracted to "abused animal" stories. She tells the story about a case they had where a group wanted to transfer a white german shepherd dog to her facility who was a cruelty victim of neglect and was supposedly "emaciated". Sue put the word out about the dogs availability and story, and soon had what appeared to be an ideal candidate who wanted to adopt him.
ReplyDeleteBut when the dog showed up at her facility, he was in a lot better shape than they had been led to believe...a little thin, but overall a robust, playful, happy dog full of energy, who wanted to play ball.
The adopter came out to meet the dog; she had made all sorts of preparations, including buying high caloric, nutritionally dense food to nurse him back to health. But when she saw him, instead of being happy his condition wasn't that bad, she was crestfallen. She was apparently deeply disappointed that her pity rescue turned out to be a happy, relatively healthy, normal dog. She didn't want a normal dog, she wanted a sick, abused dog...perhaps to feed her own ego, or for bragging rights over the fact that she "saved" this animal. She left without adopting the dog.
Erins tale of finding her sick, abused pit bull, which she felt so compelled to share with us early in her narrative, seems very common with pit bull fanatics. It seems like part of the appeal of owning a pit bull for many women....they seem attracted to the fact that they "saved" a very sick or injured dog, and enjoy telling the story. I imagine it gives them a lot of credibility with other pit bull advocates. Going to a shelter and adopting a healthy, friendly retreiver mix wouldn't allow you to keep repeating the self-congratulatory story about how you saved a very sick, abandoned dog from death.
I think that is actually part of the appeal of the breed for many of these women...they don't want a healthy, happy, easy dog as a companion animal....the want a story, they want to feel like martyrs, they want to feel needed and special, they want attention....even negative attention.
TreeC you are from Mass! I am from Mass also, in the Greater Boston area! I know exactly what you mean!
ReplyDeleteWhen my children were young, for years I could not walk around the block...I never knew when the young owner of the pit bull would be home, and the dog loose. The pit bull had already attacked other dogs...it had once come after my almost three year old son, stalking us and keeping us frozen on the sidewalk while I screamed at the owner to call it off.
Pit bulls aren't that common in my town, but the few that do exist cause enormous problems. The MSPCA and other humane groups are relentlessly pushing these dogs on people, especially first time dog owners, and people who don't know anything about dogs. Many times they will lie to adopters and label pit bulls other breeds...lab mixes(black pit bull) Weimaraner mixes (blue pit bull), vizla mixes (red nose pit bull) border collie mixes (black and white pit bull) dalmation mixes (spotetd pit bull), etc.
I have met suburban families who were tricked into adopting a pit bull.....some end up returning them when the dogs genetics kick in and they start to show aggression toward other animals.
Hamilton-Whenham would be a better area to bring the kids....I can't imagine the folks up at the Myopia Hunt Club and that aear would for a moment tolerate any threat to their horses. (we don't care much about children in this country, but if a pit bull took down a polo pony, THAT would inspire action).
I wrote two responses to branwyn and dubv and both poofed >(
ReplyDeleteAnyway thanks for the advice!
April29, it's good to know that I or my kids will be covered if we need our scalps sown back on. That shit gets expensive ;)