Monday, October 31, 2011

Proof it is not just the owner

The naive, desperate-to-belong, young Junior Nutters have been out in force, claiming it's not the breed, its the owner.


Below is a video that shows just how wrong these naive young things are, but first here's a description of how these genetically determined, breed-specific behaviors work.

Read here how Viszla's get high on chromosomes and then express their joy by performing a man-made, genetically determined, unnatural behavior.


This is a man-made exaggeration of one portion of a wild predator's hunting sequence that is really quite bizarre when removed from the context of the specific man-made job of bird hunting.(p. 71 Semyonova) It has been noted elsewhere that it would not be unheard of for a pointing breed owner to walk in on his pointer frozen stiff in front of a feathered hat. Here are other weird things pointers have pointed.

Retrievers also have been bred to have a bizarre, genetically determined behavior that was developed by exaggerating another segment of the wild predator's hunting sequence. If, as an irresponsible owner of a retrieving breed dog, you let your retriever get out of your yard, you might be presented with this:

This behavior is guided by the dog's man-made, genetically determined love for looking for dead things to carry gently and bring back to a beloved two-legger.

When you look at the following video, you will first note that owner is a moron who's dressed himself to look like a female baboon in heat presenting to a male. But, that's somewhat beside the point.


Obviously, he's a highly incompetent and irresponsible pit bull owner who just let his dog attack unprovoked, and is completely unable to stop the attack.

But, watching this video also makes it clear that it's not just the owner. The pit bull's behavior is extremely bizarre and unique to gripping dogs. The pit bull is completely oblivious to what's going on around it. It is in its own little world. It is high on chromosomes.





Yes BR, Dawn is serious:



My wish for baboon draws owner before baboon draws owner drops the leash one day and someone really gets hurt:


Thanks to Branwyne for finding this video!

65 comments:

Decatur AL livin nt to 4 pits said...

I needed a good laugh today and the baboon thing did it !!!! Pictures speak louder than words sometimes.

dawn james said...

omg! female baboons in heat presenting to a male!!!

Snack, you outdid yourself, AGAIN! thank you. and thanks BR for resurrecting nutter linda blair's blog post. i need to add her to the famous pit nutter blog.

any takers on that generous lick you to death offer made by BR?

bitbypit said...

Such a fine portrayal of selectively bred dog traits (pointers point, retrievers retrieve and pit bulls latch on and do not let go -- a bite style found only in the gripper breeds). The spectacular addition of the baboon photos elevates this "classic pit bull owner" to heights beyond Mnt. Everest -- So well done!

BRAVO!

DubV said...

Awesomely done.

truthbird said...

The victim APPEARS to work in a hospital -- note the scrubs? If you blast the volume you can hear him say: "OH MY GOD!" and "OH MY GOD!" after entering the bus.

vintage said...

These ethereal Nutters not knowing what they own is hurting a lot of people and pets:

COLBY'S PINCHER AND TIGE.
Among the prominent Pit Bull Terriers of the last decade Colby's Pincher and Colby's Tige may be mentioned. The names of these dogs appearing in present day pedigrees are heralded as of exceptional value, and Pit Bull Terrier history will record their owner, John P. Colby, of Newburyport, Mass., as one of the leading and most successful breeders in America. Pincher was a 75-pound dog and said to be the best known catch-weight dog in New England, as well as one of the largest game dogs in America. Mr. Colby says Pincher killed or stopped over twenty dogs and never met a dog that could stay with him forty minutes. He was a close descendant of Turk, Pilot and Danger.

Tige was a wonderful sire of game dogs, and was himself considered the champion 35-pound dog of America. His greatest battle was over the Connecticut dog, Captain, lasting three hours and twenty-seven minutes, near Hartford, Nov. 26, 1898, Tige being the winner.

This is from a fighting dog rag...notice how it glosses over the most significant DBRF in American history when Colby's nephew was killed in his "family" dogyard.

It's really too bad that Colby never served time for manslaughter. We would probably have avoided many maulings.

FU Zupf said...

"If breed is truly irrelevant and the problem is truly irresponsible owners..."

1. Corgi attacked boy
http://www.wowt.com/news/headlines/132475943.html

2. Border Collie mauled a 12 yr old girl. (I guess it was trying to "herd" her.)
http://www.coolum-news.com.au/story/2011/10/25/surgery-for-dog-bite-girl/

3. A real life "Cujo" attacked and trapped a man and his daughter.
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Bernard+attacks+father+nine+year+daughter/5604549/story.html

4. A GSD mix attacked and nearly took off the leg of a friend of the owners.
http://www.kirotv.com/news/29507231/detail.html



Does your statement ONLY refer to pit bull types?

Jim said...

The first two stories the problem was a lack of parental supervision (second one also had an off lead dog not under the owner's control) and in neither of those stories do we have anything even approaching what gripping dog instinct causes in their attacks

second two stories wouldn't load for me so I can't comment

what I will say is this; environment can put a thin veneer over genetics, but that is about it

you own and promote a type of dog that has been genetically programmed to attack and kill

so go play with your fuznuts someplace else, I'm kinda sick of your crap

FU Zupf said...

C'mon Jim, you know I won't just go away. :)

This is interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXeuAp3WI-E&feature=related

The Rott didn't pull the "attacker" down, but the Golden Retriever did. (Also note, the violent shaking the GR displays.....must be mixed with a pit bull.)

Or this:
(note, the pit bull in the background is just chilling with a stranger hovering over him.)

The following is a TRAINED dog at an airport that attacked a little girl, unprovoked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKUsxV9z5AU&feature=related

And finally THIS one:
(note, the GSD is totally oblivious to its surroundings as it's attacking the smaller dog.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HovG4TkWKPA&feature=related

dawn james said...

where do i begin...

okay, let's start with one of my favorite breeds, the GSD.

in the street attack, i will present my argument in classic pit nutter fashion so you will be able to grasp it. the video started rolling after the attack started. we don't know what could be the precipitating factor here, maybe the pit bull started it by staring down the GSD? click here for a refresher on pit bull language.

regarding the leg nearly taken off by a GSD in seattle, i saw the video a little bit ago but now it now it won't load. i will tell you what's in it jim. there is a woman hobbling along for the news crew on monday, she was bitten on last friday. no injuries were shown, yet we are to believe that her leg was nearly tore off 4 days ago while she walks around, albeit with a limp for a tv interview. i think the reporter at kiro tv must be a member of FABB.
*btw, i do think the victim should sue the GSD owners and the GSD should be euthanized.

check out these injuries. i wonder if this victim would up to a walking tv interview 4 days after her attack?

regarding the TRAINED dog at the airport, it is a malinois. time and time again, i have said that pit bulls are being crossed into the malinois to increase prey drive and athleticism. i know somebody in schutzhund who says that these dogs don't like to let. total hearsay, i haven't see it with my own eyes.

i'll try to get to the rest of these later on.

FU Zupf said...

Dawn there just so happens to be a Schutzhund club near where I live. I've actually met the guy in charge, Steve a few times. Well, I called him up regarding the Malinois statement.
He stated this was the first he had ever heard of such a thing.

(Here's his website BTW: http://www.dogsamerica.com/index.htm

He added, if people wanted a bigger, faster, gamier Malinois; just breed the bigger and more athletic ones, and for the pit and malinois owner that DID cross breed....good luck with that one!

He also said he has owned a 100+ GSD, and a 80 lb Malinois before.
(I think he also said a 90 lb SWAT Malinois....but I'm not sure on the weight.)
He would like to know the source of your information because this is what he does.

He continued on saying that Schutzhund is primarily for the GSD and Malinois working breeds. In other words, he wouldn't allow Chihuahua owners to sign up.

Oh well, that's my 2 cents on the whole malinois/crossbreed myth.

dawn james said...

i have posted this link before but here it is again.

It should be noted that the practice of outcrossing in the working dog world is more common than many would like to admit and some Malinois lines are no exception in this regard, having been periodically enriched with the blood of the Dutch Shepherd, English Bullterrier, American Pit Bull Terrier and other breeds, with intentions of increasing the prey drive, physical strength and overall agility.

i have another breeder link somewhere too. it might take me awhile to find it. if you don't see it in a day or two, please remind me.

Jim said...

Fuznuts, did you think people wouldn't check? you give a web address for what is basically a puppymill (none of the dogs have any health certs and few are titled to any appreciable level) that mentions this Steve Legambi, trainer, who, when googled, does not show up on any reputable club sites.

This is your proof of assertion? Really?

Desperate, aintcha :)

Bagheera Kiplingi said...

Fuzzy's back. He must have been drawn to the female baboon in heat.

I found Steve's Schutzhund club. There must be one hundred photos.
Where is America's Dog?

Jake said...

Hehe, nice tactic fuzzy - find several isolated cases of attacks from non-pit breeds, and shazam! It looks like all dogs are the same, right?

Not so fast.

A noob might be fooled by looking at these few stories, but if you look at the 10,000 foot view you see that serious inuries and deaths from pit bull attacks outnumber not only any other breed, they outnumber *all* other breeds combined.

Not surprisingly, pit bulls also have the dubious distinction of killing their owners more often than any other breed; they are in a whole different category from other dogs. But could that possibly come as a surprise to anyone, considering the purpose for which the breed was created?

Some might maintain that pit bulls are just like any other dogs, only stronger, so their attacks cause more damage. They would be wrong. There are a number of dogs larger and stronger than the pit bull, with stronger bite force, who don't kill their owners. It's not that they can't; it's just that they simply have no interest in doing so.

Which begs the question - why do pit bulls kill their owners so often?

Jim said...

Steve's "Schutzhund Club" isn't affiliated with the regional organization. It looks like a BYB's way to phony up a colorful history for its badly bred dogs.

Did you see the pics? LMAO
http://temeculaschutzhund.com/tranning.htm

Can't even spell training corrctly much less actually train correctly.

But this is Fuznuts... birds of a feather flock together and all that

snack sized dog said...

"Fuzzy's back. He must have been drawn to the female baboon in heat." AH HA Bagheera!

C'mon Jim, you know I won't just go away. :)

No you won't you'll just annoy us with the pointless strawman "no other dog ever attacks."

But, it is fun watching Jim, Jake and Dawn smack FuzNuts down, and kind of fascinating that he just doesn't know when he's licked.

http://youtu.be/qq0OQBdIhsc?t=24s


What the original video shows, fuzzy, is the extremely unique, bizarre inbred spontaneous desire to grab and not let go no matter what. That pit never let go, they just tore the pant leg away.

Interesting that you include a bitework training demo in your videos. One of the things dogs need to be taught and conditioned for when training is to not let go in the face of distractions - they even tap the dogs with a stick to CONDITION them not to let go when being hit.

The point of the original video is - PIT BULLS NEED NO SUCH TRAINING. They go into a "zone" and it takes extraordinary means to get them to let go.

In your bitework video, notice how easy it was to get the rott to release?

Here's an example of a DEAD pit bull that would not release its police officer victim. And they say locking jaws is a myth.

http://pitbullattacksinillinois.blogspot.com/search/label/locking%20jaws

Bagheera Kiplingi said...

The female baboon is a seductress that no man can resist.

FU Zupf said...

Snack sized.....funny how you mention the Rott in the training video, what of the golden retriever and the violent take down of the "attacker??" If Golden's can be trained to be guard dogs, can pit bulls be trained to be therapy dogs?


To everyone--- it's funny how I present videos or articles that are relevant to a specific topic, this being, is it breed and owner) and all of you ALWAYS jump on me, call me names, and tell me of pit bull attacks along with other pit hater web sites.

Jim-- I KNOW all of you were going to check on the website. I posted it for that reason, if I didn't WANT you to look him up...I would've never gave you a link to his website. HELLLLOOO?

THEN, all of you proceed to point out EVERY SINGLE little sentence that might be questionable. Is it because fuznuts...a stupid, white trash piece of shit pit bull owner posted it? Therefore, it MUST BE A LIE?


The point is, Dawn posted a statement regarding cross breeding Malinois' with APBTs. I wouldn't ask a person that owns a gerbil, I went to an expert that trains Malinois' and GSDs.
Point is, he's never heard of cross breeding.

And Jim again, thanks but no, I'm not desperate. Dawn posted the Malinois cross breeding statement at 1559, yesterday. Temecula Valley Schutzhund Club was the fastest, easiest way I could get an answer to the question.
If you REALLY want me to, I'll research and give you all the references, telephone numbers, and emails regarding this. (but it'll take 1-2 days.)

Jim said...

The point is he is NOT an "expert"

He is a fringy hanger on and from the site you posted he appears to be a BYB/pupymill

Hardly the type of "expert" that is likely to carry weight here.

As to the Golden, you did happen to notice that the dog was trained to bite work. It grabbed and did not release the hold. It did not pull the person down, release, and move in for a deeper hold or a facial mauling. Both of which are typical pit manuevers. (punny)

A TRAINED dog versus the genetic propensity for violence that is inherent with gripping dogs.

They are not comparable.

If you want to waste your time with what you consider to be reasearch, be my guest. But find better sources. Bubbatard's Badly Bred Shepherds doing bite work INCORRECTLY in a trailer park setting doesn't exactly instill a lot of confidence.

Jim said...

Take a close look at Balzac in the first photo :(

http://bayareadogtrainer.wordpress.com/2011/05/16/note-to-the-american-public-belgian-malinois-look-dont-touch/

You can clearly see someone has been fooling around with that dog's bloodline (probably following in the footsteps of those genius Tosa breeders who thought adding APBT would improve drive)

Jake said...

LOL @ fuzzy: "If Golden's can be trained to be guard dogs, can pit bulls be trained to be therapy dogs?"

Um, pit bulls have been trained as therapy dogs. Just off the top of my head, a specially trained, certified "therapy pit" tried to kill a horse. There are other horror stories.

In the same vein, does anyone suppose that putting a frilly dress on a pit bull and giving it a silly baby name will keep it from killing its owner? Sadly, that has been proven not to be the case...

snack sized dog said...

Jim - I was looking at that same supposed maliois! totally looks like its got some block headed ancestors!

Jake, while i was writing a rant, you beat me to it with a much better response. Therapy dog attacks horse says it all much better.

You seriously think that one clip proves anything about the Golden vs the Rott? Cmon. You think it makes a statement because you can get a golden to bite a suit and pull down the girl inside the suit, as far as you know, one time. I guess if I knew that the only bad guys out there were 17 year old girls, I might consi...no.

You're seriously asking, if I was in the market for a trained protection dog for actual work, and someone said, got a great GOLDEN, watch this video, would I pay big money for that or any other golden?

That is a STUNT just like any pit therapy dog is a STUNT. You do understand that even with that conditioning, you need a dog that has been heavily bred to be extremely bold, hard mouthed, driven, fearless to be able to depend on the dog in the real world in the face of real bad guys, right?

I suppose it could even be said that depending on a protection trained golden in a seriously threatening environment is as stupid and dangerous as using a pit therapy dog.

In real life, legitimately trained protection dogs are EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE. No one who really needed to depend on their dog would waste that much money on a dog that was bred for a century to have traits that are practically the perfect inverse of the necessary traits for protection work.

You probably know that people who REALLY depend on working dogs BREED FOR THE TASK. Both the Seeing Eye and military rely on specifically bred GSDs. And the military wouldn't find the Seeing Eye bred GSDs acceptable nor would the Seeing Eye find "working line" GSDs acceptable for their work.

That's how important genetics are. And that's why pit therapy dogs are DANGEROUS STUNTS -that backfire.

FU Zupf said...

Oh and Jim, if someone that has 30 yrs of dog training experience doesn't make him an "expert"

Then why the heck is a web graphics designer with 5 yrs of keeping tabs on pit bull attacks in the news articles (as a hobby) considered one?

BB said...

I want to address the Golden Retriever being used for protection displays. FU, you do understand that that dog has been trained to do what it is doing, right? And you do understand that it probably had a temperament that fell to the outside of the bell curve for its breed to begin with? I have seen video of a pit bull trained to herd cattle without attacking the face and neck. It was a highly trained dog and its temperament likely also fell to the outside of the bell curve for the pit bull breed. MOST retrievers cannot be reliably trained for protection. MOST pits cannot be reliably trained for herding. The fact that the rare few can is not proof that retrievers have the innate aggression or the bite style of a pit nor is it proof that pits carry some innate herding drive. It is simply proof that nurture can sometimes override nature, particularly when that nature is weak.

But what does it prove to you? That Golden wasn't latched on to a stranger on the street. Can you provide a video where one is? Have you honestly ever heard of a Golden Retriever involved in an attack like the one in the video? Ever?

And do you honestly think that a dog with the innate aggression and bite style of a pit bull should be owned by the kind of people that are in that video? Do you give a thought at all to what the outcome would have been if that dog had latched onto the man's leg instead of his pants? Do you care about what will happen if that dog decides to attack a child walking by? Do you really think that a Golden owned by those losers would have done the same thing? Do you honestly think that pits are equivalent to retrievers? Honestly?

How do you watch and read and see what pits do on a daily basis and continue to support their ownership by the masses? By fools and criminals? I don't think you are an idiot like most here do, but I don't understand your disingenuity at all.

dawn james said...

"FU, you do understand that that dog has been trained to do what it is doing, right? And you do understand that it probably had a temperament that fell to the outside of the bell curve for its breed to begin with? "

my exact thoughts BB. can you post a link to pits herding cows? i haven't been able to find one. i did find a single youtube video of a pit herding sheep in a very small pen with the nutter excessively giving the pit time outs. it seemed to me, he was keeping the pit from getting too excited and possibly attacking the sheep.

"Do you really think that a Golden owned by those losers would have done the same thing? "

that was actually the original point in the blog. fuzupf didn't address the outcome of any dog owned by brian pennington.

good comment BB.

snack sized dog said...

I agree, BB, thanks for bringing the argument back on topic!

I think FuzNut's argument in showing attacks by other breeds relies on the fact that there's a distribution curve for all breed behavior, and some animals fall to the extremes or even outside of it.

Selective breeding is not like manufacturing widgets.

By bringing in the golden trained for bite work, FuzNuts was trying to deflect from the original question Dawn asked - could Rosie Humphreys have continued to be "everybody's grandmother," as her neighbors called her, for the rest of her natural life if Brian Pennington had owned a golden retriever NOT trained for bite work?

DubV said...

Fuzzy clearly suffers from dunning-kruger effect and an inordinate pride or other defect. He won't change his mind. He is incapable of realizing when any point of his has been thwarted.

Earth to fuznuts, it is not necessary for all pit bulls to be monsters and all individuals of other breeds to be gentle lambs in order for the following to be true: pit bulls should be very rare because their average temperament makes them an unjustifiable risk to others and their pets given that other breed choices exist.

FU Zupf said...

Dawn...why didn't you post my comment that I sent to you around 3pm pst? Stating, if having 30 yrs of dog training experience isn't enough, than how can a web designer with a hobby, have 5 yrs of picking out only pit bull attacks from the media give her "expert" status from numerous: lawyers, journalists, and columnists from news media with no formal education?

And BB, I DO think ANY breed owned by that "baboon" character would've been aggressive. ANY.

Snack sized--- I do agree with, it's both dog and owner.
In regards to the Brian Pennington statement, she asked to substitute pit bull for any of the mentioned breeds.
Although, not brian pennington and not that particular incident with Ms. Humphreys, there was a Collie attack article to show that it's not unheard of for a collie to attack.
Then with the Golden Retriever bite work video, I thought I'd give you a, "It is in its own little world. It is high on chromosomes."

BB or ANY OF YOU-- I can ask you the same thing, How can all of you support the 2nd Amendment and:
"continue to support their ownership by the masses? By fools and criminals?"

-In 2007, guns took the lives of 31,224 Americans in homicides, suicides and unintentional shootings. This is the equivalent of more than 85 deaths each day and more than three deaths each hour.

-So, 1 pit bull victim every 21 days, is the equivalent to 1,785 victims of gun violence in 21 days.

-Firearms were the third-leading cause of injury-related deaths nationwide in 2007, following motor vehicle accidents and poisoning.

-From 2001 through 2007, over 4,900 people in the United States died from UNINTENTIONAL shootings.


I DO think pit bulls are not for the beginner dog owner.
I DO think pit bull attacks are horrific.
I DO think other large dog breeds are just as capable of doing equal damage with maulings.
I DON'T think "pit bull" is the vicious, number 1 dangerous dog.
There isn't a "most dangerous dog breed"
I DON'T think singling out 1 "type" of dog breed will help with the dog attacks here in the U.S. or world.

BB said...

FU said: "And BB, I DO think ANY breed owned by that "baboon" character would've been aggressive. ANY."

-------

Then why doesn't a single video exist, anywhere, that shows an attack like the original one posted which involves a Golden Retriever? Lots of those "baboons" own Goldens yet we never hear that one has attacked a stranger on the street. Why?

BB said...

WRT the gun issue, the argument is a red herring because guns must be operated directly and intentionally (excepting the very rare accidents). A more realistic comparison is found in recalls:

20 children died in miniblind cords in a 10 year period and the miniblind industry was forced to recall 50 million blinds in order to eliminate the defect which created the additional risk

22 people died in Toyotas over a 12 year period. The company recalled some 14 million vehicles in order to look for and correct a defect which created an "unacceptable" risk

In 12 years pits have been responsible for around 300 deaths. By any standard of judgement it is time for a massive "recall".

Jake said...

Fuzzy said "1 pit bull victim every 21 days, is the equivalent to 1,785 victims of gun violence in 21 days."

Where do you get your figures? I'm seeing 4-5 fatal pit bull attacks per month worldwide.

And Just so we're clear, you do understand that gun ownership is severely restricted, and shooting someone to death is illegal, right? It's not like we are letting deaths by gun slide and cracking down on deaths by pit bull - although I think death by pit bull is more horrific.

You said that you don't think pit bulls are the most dangerous dog. Nobody can tell you what to think, but reality disagrees with you. No other breed comes close to the pit bull in causing serious injuries and deaths to humans - not to mention the prolific slaughter of other animals. You started to make a good point when you mentioned that there are other breeds that are potentially just as deadly. I will go one better and say there are other breeds which are bigger, stronger and with more bite force than pit bulls.

But these other types of dogs don't kill people like pit bulls do. They don't kill their owners like pit bulls do. It's not that they can't - these dogs clearly have the potential to be lethal - but unlike the pit bull, they apparently have no interest in killing their owners.

So why are pit bulls so keen on maiming and killing theor owners? And why are the attacks almost always a complete surprise, with zero warning?

Jim said...

Fuznuts, that 30 years, even if true, doesn't = expert. There are hundreds (possibly thousands) of people who hang out a shingle that says "trainer" and roll with it. Unfortunately it is an unregulated industry. Dogs suffer daily as the result.

And even if a person is a good trainer, that doesn't = expert on breeds, breeding and breeding trends, or even animal behavior. (huge, HUGE difference between trainer and behaviorist)

Stupid people with a very superficial knowledge of a given breed or two and a desire to "create" a "breed" have been combining breeds for a couple of decades now. It was only a matter of time before someone hit on a truly lethal combination, which I believe a Mal-pit cross is. (Worse than the Tosa-pit atrocity because at least that resulted in a dog that looks like the explosion waiting to happen that it is)

Genetics will out. It is as simple as that. A good dog in bad hands can be ruined, but a bad dog even in good hands is a danger. As pits prove damn near daily.

You pitagandists do the type no favors by denying the genetic potential of these dogs. An honest approach would result in fewer human injuries and death as well as protecting the dogs.

Jim said...

Fuznuts, that 30 years, even if true, doesn't = expert. There are hundreds (possibly thousands) of people who hang out a shingle that says "trainer" and roll with it. Unfortunately it is an unregulated industry. Dogs suffer daily as the result.

And even if a person is a good trainer, that doesn't = expert on breeds, breeding and breeding trends, or even animal behavior. (huge, HUGE difference between trainer and behaviorist)

Stupid people with a very superficial knowledge of a given breed or two and a desire to "create" a "breed" have been combining breeds for a couple of decades now. It was only a matter of time before someone hit on a truly lethal combination, which I believe a Mal-pit cross is. (Worse than the Tosa-pit atrocity because at least that resulted in a dog that looks like the explosion waiting to happen that it is)

Genetics will out. It is as simple as that. A good dog in bad hands can be ruined, but a bad dog even in good hands is a danger. As pits prove damn near daily.

You pitagandists do the type no favors by denying the genetic potential of these dogs. An honest approach would result in fewer human injuries and death as well as protecting the dogs.

dawn james said...

"A good dog in bad hands can be ruined, but a bad dog even in good hands is a danger."

i like that.

"And Just so we're clear, you do understand that gun ownership is severely restricted, and shooting someone to death is illegal, right?"

not only a fatal shooting, but a non fatal shooting, threatening to shoot and even brandishing a firearm can be illegal. and i agree with you jake, i would would rather be killed by a gun than eaten alive.

"Dawn...why didn't you post my comment that I sent to you around 3pm pst?"

it landed in spam. comments are open and do not require moderation for blog posts 10 or 14 days (i can't remember which). i do not have the ability to not publish a comment during this open period. since you stated it a second time, i will leave it in spam. tread lightly on this area as i have grown tired of the criticism. and i still may delete that comment.

speaking of baboons...

DOMINICK DONOVAN, breeder of the donovan pinscher, a malinois x pit x GSD x tosa....
and a convicted piece of shit to boot.

i think there is something seriously wrong with people who are creating the man stoppers in our civilized overpopulated society.

i found the breeder site for shit bulls and mals but there is a malware warning on it.

http://vigilantkennels.com/contact.php

vintage said...

GREAT MOMENTS IN PIT BULL HISTORY:

July 25, 1907:

President Teddy Roosevelt's famous Pit Bull "Pete" is banished from the Whitehouse after multiple attacks on diplomats, whitehouse police, military personnel and assorted workers.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=LNlBAAAAIBAJ&sjid=26kMAAAAIBAJ&pg=2619,7819756&dq=pete+the+pup&hl=en

For some reason the Nutters fail to mention Pete's maneating proclivities when citing him as a famous Pit Bull.

**Disclaimer...You can't make this stuff up!

vintage said...

An interesting read about aggression, canine genetics and denial:

http://enews.tufts.edu/stories/601/2004/10/25/DangerousDogs

snack sized dog said...

Dodson before he sold out! Fantastic! I'm surprised they're keeping it up, since Tufts is Nutter U.

skeptifem said...

Regular dog attack tips don't work on gripping dogs. The kid who learned to be "like a rock" learned a tip that only works on dogs who quit after their target submits. Time and time again we see gripping dogs continuing their attack after their opponent submits completely.

Did the dog attack in the video make the news anywhere? I have a feeling that the number of unreported outbursts far outweigh the reported ones...

snack sized dog said...

Jake said:
"You said that you don't think pit bulls are the most dangerous dog. Nobody can tell you what to think, but reality disagrees with you. No other breed comes close to the pit bull in causing serious injuries and deaths to humans - not to mention the prolific slaughter of other animals."

This is why I have no respect for FuzNuts. He's a putz. He reminds me of a woman I once worked with who lived on coke and twinkies. Literally. Someone asked her if she was worried about her nutrition and she said, "I don't believe in vitamins." My jaw dropped. I could not believe the degree of denial there.

Just like fuznuts. But, as soon as I think, ok, he's just a putz in denial who really believes pits are no different than goldens then he says they're not for beginner owners. And then I go back to thinking he's an asshole who doesn't care that kids die horrible deaths because of his fetish and he's just here to be a pest.

snack sized dog said...

Oh, and i too would much rather be shot to death than live the terror of being prey to a worthless shit bull owned by a stupid worthless putz who will say, I didn't know...he's always been nice...it was a accident...I raised him right...and walk away from it.

dawn james said...

sometime after 2004, i imagine a couple of tattooed men in black losers paying dodman a visit shortly before his wiggle butt "epiphany".

thank you vintage, i will add this flip flopping dodman quote to his other expert for hire quotes.


NICHOLAS DODMAN, BVMS, ACVB, ACVA

Rottweilers were originally bred to guard the money of peasants returning home from the city of Rottweil in Germany, so their fierceness was prized. Staffordshire bull terriers and pit bulls were programmed to deliver a full crushing bite to the noses of bulls. "They're locked and loaded," as Dodman puts it.

on breed profiling
But Dodman defends the practice. "The insurance companies have no ax to grind," he says. They base their decisions on actuarial statistics showing that certain breeds in certain homes are a recipe for trouble and the cause of lawsuits.

dawn james said...

OMG!!!! I DON'T BELIEVE IN VITAMINS!!!!!!!!

FU Zupf said...

Dawn-- (legitimate question) Why can Jim talk down on a dog trainer that has 3 decades of experience, and I ask one question about someone who only has 5....and not only do all of you avoid that like the plague but you threaten to delete the comment?

I'm just trying to ascertain where the line is drawn.

Jake--
"why are the attacks almost always a complete surprise, with zero warning?"

I'm gonna ask you to look at ANY dog attack article and in it, 90% of the time the owner states, "the dog all of a sudden attacked"

If people KNEW their dog would attack, they would stop it. Right? If people knew the warning signs, the majority of dog attacks would be SOLVED.


Dawn---thank you for the link on that asshole that developed the Donovan Pinscher. Interesting dog, but totally goes against "natural"

I read an interesting article about cross-breeding and it mentions the Donovan.

http://www.carnivoraforum.com/index.cgi?board=discussion&action=print&thread=12326

So you were partially correct with, "that pit bulls are being crossed into the malinois to increase prey drive and athleticism."

True, but other breeds including: Mastiff, Akita, GSD, and Japanese Tosa to make the Donovan Pinscher.


SnackSized-- your comment about GRs no different from Pits and that I believe pit owners should be experienced.....Do YOU think ANYBODY can handle a pit bull?
I don't think a 1st time dog owner should, without doing extensive research on the breed and KNOW that dog aggression is in their nature.
I think owners that have pit bull for their 1st dog should go to a cert class that includes: neuter, chip, license, correct leash and collar size and finally at least an intermediate obedience class.


And you guys admit or deny......you like me coming on here, stirring things up.
Or else, it would be just a bunch of people agreeing on the same thing the other person just said.

april 29 said...

fuzzy said...
"you like me coming on here, stirring things up."

fuzzy, again, you are wrong. It is a habit with you.

Jake said...

Well fuzzy, I will admit, it's never a dull moment with you around.

DubV said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
DubV said...

fuznuts said...

"Dawn---thank you for the link on that asshole that developed the Donovan Pinscher. Interesting dog, but totally goes against "natural""

Fuzzy, you do realize that all dog breeds were created via ARTIFICIAL selection and outcrossing right?


Fuzzy then said...

"I don't think a 1st time dog owner should, without doing extensive research on the breed and KNOW that dog aggression is in their nature."


Fuzzy, do you know that you are conceding the argument here? You are euphemistically agreeing that fighting breeds are bad choices for beginners and also for others. Why? Okay, let's say someone is into snakes. Some people own venomous snakes. No one recommends a beginner do this, they'd likely tell them to get a little corn snake or something. Well guess what? That venomous snake is more dangerous to an expert than a corn snake is, no matter what precaution is taken. Now apply this to dogs, and a fighting breed is much more dangerous than any venomous snake because they actively target humans, move more quickly, and are harder to contain. I would rather have a king cobra as a neighbor's pet than a pit.

You are asking us to have some trust that people with pits will be educated, when you know that most of them will not do this and might be in a denial that folks like you fuel.

I don't necessarily want a breed ban, but mandatory spay/neuter and for fools like Fuzzy to be honest so that fewer people get these dogs in a naive way and non-owners no to avoid them and be ready to defend themselves.

Jim said...

Fuznuts,
The AKC has no record of your supposed "30 years of experience" trainer ever putting even a CD on a dog. Nor has he, according to the USCA, ever put a SchH1 on a dog. If you have evidence to the contrary, by all means, post it here.
As it stands I "talked down" on the guy because my 15yo son has a CGC, CD, NA, RN, and is starting to work on hunt test titles on his dog. He's a novice owner and he apparently has more performance dog titling experience than your "expert."
Years mean nothing. I know of a "trainer" who basically sets an e-collar to "stun" to train pets for people in CA. He's been doing this for 15 years. Is he an "expert" because he's been abusing animals for profit for over a decade?
Show me the titles. Show me the long term club memberships. Show me evidence that he's taught beginning obedience for UKC or AKC. Anything besides the club he created for himself to showcase some rather badly bred animals.
To get back on topic, yet another rescue foster labrador in my home from an abuse/neglect situation. Never met a stranger, bomb proof with kids (although I am still very, very careful) not even food protective. Genetics will out. You take a pit from the same background and you have a face eater waiting to explode. A dog that can't take it if people applaud in its presence. Genetics will out.

P. said...

Dubv, the Clayhead on Opposing Views is all over the latest one with the video showing the aftermath of a pit attack. And his picture changes, last night it was a white guy. And BullyBob is back on the same article under the name Bob Croft, I think. http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/animal-rights/3-pit-bulls-attack-texas-woman-graphic-film-shows-bites

They both remind me of the Fuzzy guy - stupid.

Jim said...

Another heartwarming "Nannying"

http://www.news9.com/story/15956032/vicious-pit-bull-attack-injures-vinita-toddler

WestieWest said...

@Craven Desires and Snack Sized Dog(I hope I got your name right)

I have been meaning to get in contact with the two of you. I've been turned away by several Anti-Pit Bull and Anti-Dangerous Dog Breeds people because of my situation. I would mention it on here but if I do I'm certain the Pit Nutters are going to try to tear me apart(pun intended) and use me as a scapegoat. I really need to speak to both of you it's very important and I don't have anyone else to go too. I am not a troll or Pit Nutter I am a person who needs to talk to talk to someone who still has good sense regarding dangerous dogs.

My email is LauraWestieWest@gmail.com. Please contact me.

vintage said...

I think Richard Stratton says it better than any of us ever could:

"The Bulldog is superior to other breeds in areas other than gameness. That is, he is generally more athletic, has more stamina, has more biting power, etc.”

branwyne said...

One thing I notice consistently with every self-appointed pit bull advocate, is that they all know very little about dogs in general. The poster FuZupt demonstrates this once again by posting a byber who claims to be a Shutzhund trainer, but has NO record of actually competing in protection sports, no titles on his dogs, no health screenings, etc. It seems like he cribbed a bunch of general GSD info off the internet and put it on his website. The "training facility" appears to involve a 14 year old boy in a trailer park. Anyone who actually knows anything about dogs would have been embarrassed to put up a link like that. I have also seen "BullyBob", another pit advocate, put up a link in an online comments section to a "responsible breeder" of pit bulls that was an outrageous, for-profit puppy mill.

Its clear that the people standing behind the pit bull breeds don't even understand what responsible breeders do...they are so easily taken in by fake experts, bybers, and frauds out to make a quick buck. It's part of why the pit bull problem just keeps getting worse.

DubV said...

interesting article

http://www.wmctv.com/story/15952186/special-report-the-problem-with-pit-bulls

Jake said...

DubV -

Yeah it's interesting but still contains the usual annoying pro-pit propaganda.

vintage said...

It's getting tiring knowing more about pit bulls than the average pit bull owner and advocate.

Jake said...

Typical annoying excerpt: "I've seen labradoodles that were mean as can be and pit bulls who were sweet as can be," Flinn said.

But he neglected to mention the most important point, namely that "sweet pit bulls" have killed plenty of people, and "mean labradoodles" haven't killed a single soul as far as I can tell.

I don't know if he's a liar, or just dumber than a bag of nails, and taught to spout the party line.

dawn james said...

"Dawn-- (legitimate question) Why can Jim talk down on a dog trainer that has 3 decades of experience, and I ask one question about someone who only has 5....and not only do all of you avoid that like the plague but you threaten to delete the comment?

I'm just trying to ascertain where the line is drawn."

i am not allowing any criticizing of texas web designers or denver city attorneys (although i strongly encourage criticism of me).

thanks for the memphis link DubV. there is a serious problem there.

vintage, i share your frustration!

vintage said...

GREAT PIT BULL MOMENTS IN HISTORY:

Oklahoma, Dec 5, 1914:

Angry Movie theater manager bans dogs after Walter Hodson's Bulldog sees a dog in the film, then subsequently attacks the screen.

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83030193/1914-12-05/ed-1/seq-10/


**Disclaimer..You can't make this stuff up!

DubV said...

Haven't heard of this level of bad assery since the guy with the pitchfork

http://www.news4jax.com/news/Man-kills-pit-bull-attacking-his-dog/-/475880/4600570/-/eimv1t/-/

snack sized dog said...

Ah HAH HAH HAH! Vintage!

DubV that guy is badass and has the bulldog sussed out right:

Jones said he has lost his confidence in pit bulls.

"I don't know if I'll be even able to walk my kids and my dog without some sort of protection because there was no growl, there was no bite, there was no sniffing of each other. It was just walk up and attack," Jones said.

Jake said...

DubV - thanks for sharing. That is how a man takes care of business.

dawn james said...

REPEAT:
SJCO deputies were unable to find the other pit bull after the attack, nor could they find the third dog, a yellow lab, that didn't attack Jones.


the easy peasy dog wasn't involved, imagine that!



i love this guy!

Bagheera Kiplingi said...

Todays word: Bad Assery

What a guy! Bryan Jones is a super hero, PITMAN!!!

I'm so turned on ;-)