Monday, July 14, 2014

the purple testamant of bleeding war part 2

WARNING graphic photos


what was done to this dog is a serious crime, in fact it is a felony in all 50 states.


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the penalties for the owners of the pit bulldogs responsible for the carnage perpetrated against other pit bulldogs are stiff. they face felony charges and sometimes federal charges that can result in prison time, massive fines, automatic and immediate seizure of the pit bulldogs and forfeiture of personal property like vehicles and real estate. justice is aggressively pursued by the state.

by contrast, the owners of the pit bulldogss responsible for the carnage perpetrated against our innocent pets MIGHT receive a citation for dog at large. the prosecutor typically works out a plea, the judge accepts it to move the case quickly through the system and returns the vicious culprits to the same address, IF they were ever removed. where is the justice?

if you want something that resembles justice for your beloved dog or cat or horse the burden will be on you to come up with the money to hire a lawyer, which will be in short supply thanks to those colossal vet bills and even then, you will need to prepare for the onslaught of dangerous dog advocate lawyers like STEVEN WISE funded by raving lunatics who slap up a facebook page and chipin and dangerous dog advocate animal "behaviorists" like TRISH KING hired to whitewash their pit bulldog's behavior and drag it out in the courts in the hopes of wearing you down. sometimes the no kill freaks like the LEXUS PROJECT will step in and work to shuttle the culprit into a "sanctuary". this of course is still the best case scenario given the proclivity for nutters to flee the scene while you scoop up your pile of screaming blood and fur and head for the nearest emergency vet.

every owner of a fighting breed, should be charged with a felony when their dog exercises its DNA.


 
































































the purple testament of bleeding war part 1

84 comments:

april 29 said...

Powerful post, very powerful.

These photos break my heart.

Jake said...

This has been in my heart. It needs to go viral. I think I'll put up a pointer to this article over on 17 barks.

Sputnik2009 said...

Break my heart too, but not as much as seeing this happen in real life over and over with my own eyes.

Everyone needs to see this, to have their nose pushed right into it.

Thanks Craven.

S.K.Y. said...

Wow, Dawn, a very powerful post. How sad to see all these poor animals ripped to shreds by mutants, and the mutant doesn't get any penalty at all, much less a dirt nap.

snarky said...


christ almighty , and some pitters wonder why we despise them .

snarky said...


the dingbats go .....awwww , the poor loves , theyr trained to do that , theyr soooooo misunderstood , oink.

dawn james said...

thanks. i will be adding to the fighting section. you know all of those pits attacking dogs videos that the nutters slam youtube and liveleak about? well, they're sitting on my computer and one day they will be available again.

Meals on Wheels said...

You got me. I'm sitting here, and bawling my eyes out. With few words and photos that screamed at least a thousand each, you spake the root of my outrage and torment. My dog was killed by dogfighters, surely as it's murder regardless if it's a registered handgun or not. There is an intention when somebody decides that for some reason, only a pit bull will do, and then they can't controll the blasted bugger.

Two years ago. Memorial Day is forever emblazed into my heart. I miss my dog, my handsome sweet Rhett, you didn't deserve to suffer as you did.

And since it's been two years withoutany incident, the dog that killed will now have a clean record.

orangedog said...

Oh Meals, I didn't know Rhett was your dog. I got so angry and upset when I read his story. I'm so sorry. :(

Miss Margo said...

This is terrible to see and the photos just went on and on

I remember some of these photos from Craven blog posts and Frankenmauler Roundups...the story of that Borzai on the couch, 4th down, has always stuck in my brain...

And the pictures of the horses, Jesus, fucking nasty pit bulls always going for the face...! These beasts are like something out of a Grimm fairy tale! A pack of wolves would never be so cruel.

I am sorry for your loss, Wheels.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

And pit bull owners wonder why nobody likes their pits.

Pit bulls have lawyers and a psycho advocacy group. That's why they get away with this type of thing. They always fuck over the victims of pit bull attacks.

Hepcat62 said...

So many emotions reading this, and looking at these pictures....this has always been the bottom line for me. There are NO humane organizations speaking up to protect the animal victims of pit bull attacks, which probably outnumber human victims by 100 to 1. It's appalling as a dog lover to see these photos, knowing they are a small sampling of what is actually happening.

Dawn, I honestly think that you may be the only person in the US who is advocating for the canine victims of pit bull attacks.

The self-serving cowards at the SPCA's, HSUS, and every other major humane organization, when faced with this type of carnage, pour salt on the emotional wounds of the dead dogs owners by chalking it up to "irresponsible dog ownership", and doubling down on their efforts to promote pit bulls as pets.

What should be a felony is owning a dog capable of doing this in a totally unprovoked attack. Instead, pit bull fanatics celebrate dog aggression as an inherent "part of the breed".

I hope this post is distributed widely......

vintage said...

These are windfalls for a local veterinarian....Each one of these represents retiring a month earlier.

"Humane orgs"...Blood suckers!!!

snack sized dog said...

Brilliant post - this is a simple idea that should be obvious - but it wasn't until you put it together graphically.

tropical storms said...

Dawn, ferociously powerful imagery. My position is simply this : if you keep a fighting breed that then attacks another animal you are guilty of animal fighting. No one who keeps these dogs can plead ignorance, the availability of resource information negates that claim. Idiocy is not a viable legal defense and should not be allowed as a social defense. I actually think this is excellent court material the next time someone's animal is attacked and the bulldog owner is trying to claim the animal version of "I didn't know the gun was loaded " defense. If you know what it is an what it is capable of doing you are criminality culpable. This is no less true of a lethal dog than it is a gun. My heart goes out to all these victims and their survivors.

tropical storms said...

Dawn, ferociously powerful imagery. My position is simply this : if you keep a fighting breed that then attacks another animal you are guilty of animal fighting. No one who keeps these dogs can plead ignorance, the availability of resource information negates that claim. Idiocy is not a viable legal defense and should not be allowed as a social defense. I actually think this is excellent court material the next time someone's animal is attacked and the bulldog owner is trying to claim the animal version of "I didn't know the gun was loaded " defense. If you know what it is an what it is capable of doing you are criminality culpable. This is no less true of a lethal dog than it is a gun. My heart goes out to all these victims and their survivors.

snarky said...
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dawn james said...

miss margo, that borzoi attack is seared into my memory too. it was not by accident that i led that long list of "no felony" with mika. that is probably the most hideous attack i have read about.

snarky, the dog you are referring to was matty. he is the cream colored dog lying on the turquoise colored blanket.

thanks for the positive feedback everyone.

TreeC said...

I never realized until now but the video for the song RADIOACTIVE by imagine dragons
seems to be pro pit.......what do you think?

TreeC said...

What i meant was pro pit FIGHTING. what else could explain this video???)

Packhorse said...

That's a strange video TreeC. If you want to see another, check out "What's my name " by DMX. The most pro pit fighting video I've seen. Watch those pretty pitties scratch! http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_uri=%2F#/watch?v=4FFK5Oh10os

TreeC said...

Packhorse, I watched it. Oh yeah! Pro Pit fight vid for sure.

dawn james said...

i just watched the video of radioactive and it looks like a statement against blood sport.

the DMX video was sad funny and disgusting all at once.

snarky said...


cool irony craven. kinda like the the irony of the spca pimping out pits as pet .

snarky said...


seems like some of your chewed up pits are old and wimpy . bait animals sacrificed to the pit gods ? just like our normal pets dogs , cat and horses. why do peops not see something sinister here ?

snarky said...

gypsy ....lol

wonder what her vet bills came out to?
im sure lily-white do-gooders shed angry tears where-ever she goes. lol

snarky said...

poor hideous gypsy ( tears here) she has no ears ...but she can still hear the whispers of "bait dog , mikey vick, its so..ooooo wrong , ect" lol.

shes got a face only a dingbat could love , a frankenmauler ....a personal lapdog for frankenstien

but i bet shes living the good life now ,being petted and cooed over by idiot kids , hefty vet techs and other simpering rescue geeks , all going a bit green around the gills at the spectacle of poor rescued gypsy .

course she shoulda just gone to the incinerator ....lol

snarky said...


thought i would look up gypsy so i googled GYPSY ,THE BAIT PITBULL and up pops ...GYPSY , THE MOST BEAUTIFULL DOG IN THE WORLD . lol

YEP , she healed up pretty good , minus her ears and a front leg . and shes got a song about written about her now , .....sweet . pitbulls eh? ya gotta luv em .

snarky said...


sadly GYPSYS no more (tears again).

her dingbat , sorry , i mean rescuer , claims she had a seizure and died but i think not . pretty hard to admit that she was hit chasing a cat cross the road ...or something.

anyhoo , i quess shes now in pittie heaven , rompimg sweetly with nasty chi's and deranged weiner dogs . watching over toddlers and newborns , i woundnt doubt . lol . quess her ears are back uncropped even , and she has all four legs again . such a beautifull girl , after all shes been through .
R.I.P. run in peace pittie

love you forever ....lol

Packhorse said...

Bookmark this post. This is the one you show to everyday animal lovers who have come under the sway of Best Friends' pretty pictures. "Why do you hate dogs?" "They're just like any other dog."

This is the post for people who identify as animal lovers or animal rights/welfare supporters. Share it far and wide.

TreeC said...

Dawn, I didnt see that at all but I asked my husband to watch the video (he hates the song) and tell me what he felt the video was portraying and he felt it was anti as well because of the underdog/weak winning in the end. I agree.

Too much of my thoughts are pit related. I need to be more objective I guess.

It just breaks my heart what has been done to innocent people/pets because of these human-made monstrosities.

Anonymous said...

Wow FUCK all of you. You call yourselfs animals lovers and yet hate certain breeds? Fuck you.

Anonymous said...

This is one of the most disturbing websites I have ever seen. You refer to pitbull owners as "nutters." But I think you're just as insane.

I agree that what has happened to these dogs via pitbull attack is heart breaking. The fact of the matter is that dogs get attacked and it is not always a pitbull.

Not every pitbull is aggressive and violent. The one who should be ashamed of vicious attacks and cruelty is you. You've made it clear that you believe every one of these "monsters" should die.

What about the cases where pitbulls have saved their owners or other dogs? It's pretty uneducated of you to ignore the side of the story that doesn't suit you.

I take my twenty pound dog to the dog park every day where the majority of dogs are pit or pit mixes. I have never once felt afraid, in fact they are usually more gentle with her than some of the other dogs.

You have got to be one of the most ignorant people on the planet to think that wiping out an entire species is justifiable. The swastikas on your page are really classy too.

I know you won't allow this comment to be posted because you want to make sure readers think every one hates pits. I just wanted the message to come to you: open your eyes. People's attitudes toward pits are changing, and not in the way idiots like you would want. People are seeing them as loyal and gentle pets.

How can you ignore the fact that these dogs have been mistreated for decades? That would naturally effect any breed. I agree that people who breed their dogs to fight and kill should rot in hell. But the fact that you feel no empathy toward these animals is sickening.

Years ago people felt the same way about pitbulls as they do about labs now. They felt the same way about German Shepherds, Dobermans, and Rottweilers as people like you think of pitbulls. Pitbulls are going to stick around and you need to accept that. It would be indefinitely more effective to post about what one could do to prevent abuse against pitbulls and tips for being a good owner of any breed.

You should be disgusted with yourself. People like you are more dangerous than any animal because you promote hate and ignorance.

Anonymous said...

What a disgusting human being you are. No dog should be mistreated. You have some issue with some animal cruelty then take it up with the HUMANS that make the laws. ANY dog can become aggressive and dangerous, it's not just the bully breeds. Dalmatians are vicious dogs. People think of them as the firehouse dogs, but don't realize they were used in the old days to guard the carts and prevent theft because they were so vicious. One Disney movie and people suddenly think they are these wonderful family dogs. You have the audacity to call others nutters, but just reading your articles makes me sick to my stomach. I hope no one takes someone who uses swastikas on their banner seriously, but sadly I am sure there are many people as crazy as you are. Thank god the good far out weight the idiots.

D.L Trostem said...

Theses are sad pics indeed :( BUT I have seen dog attacks like those pics on big dogs as well as small & not even a 16th of them pitty attacks.. You are a seriously biased person.. Your following is seriously miss informed by your bias attitude.. Its so not fair to judge a specific breed because of an ill trained few.. Almost every big breed has had a bad reputation at 1 time or another .. Any animal can be violent .. ANY animal.. Especially 1 that is treated badly or trained to be mean.. ANY ANIMAL .. Humans are the most violent animal I have EVER seen.. If not for greed then for some other superficial reason they hurt each other as well as other creatures ! In humans its a choice .. Some DOGS are violent inherently .. These have to be taught firm but gentle .. Taught that its unacceptable behaviour .. They don't choose.. They are taught.. Bans on some breeds is ridiculous ! Outright murdering , maiming & abusing is human .. How about banning some out right horrifying ppl !! Seriously !!

dawn james said...

you started out sounding like a normal person with compassion for all of the innocent victims of pit bulls and you quickly spiraled into a raving lunatic. bravo nutter.

Anonymous said...

These pictures break my heart.If there are more dogs out there right know getting hurt by getting abused or doing dog fighting is wrong and dogs were never ever meant to do dog fighting or being abuse there meant to cuddle with and have fun but NEVER EVER ARE THEY FOR MONEY THERE FOR CUDDLING.!!!!! AND IF I EVER CATCH SOMEBODY ABUSING A DOG I WILL PRESS CHARGES ILL ALSO DEAL WITH IT MY WAY WHEN ITS MY WAY YOUR GONNA REGREAT THAT YOU NEVER ABUSED A DOG EVER!! I MEAN IT!!!!

Anonymous said...

Only dogs it seems who are legally protected are the Pit bull breeds.
I have a service dog and have had to fend of many a PB attack over the past 20 years . And now with the proliferation of the PB ambassador service dogs I now deal with this fear every other time I go out to a public place , with some mauler PB type barking and yanking OR slamming as hard as it can inside some vehicle windows to get to my mobility service dog ( a retriever by the way) as the proud owner goes OH I have a service dog too.... placed by so and so rescue org... Yea sure ..

Barking Mad NC said...

When a human commits such heinous crimes against another animal all the rescue freaks including the PB nut jobs are outraged and want the human hung, shot, locked away for life, etc. But if a PB commits the same crime they want to save it. WTF. Such hypocrites.

Anonymous said...

Seeing this pictures everyone jumps to the conclusion a 'Pitbull' (which isn't even a breed it's a term that refers to up to 75 different breeds). How you do know it was a pit? How you do know it wasn't a hound x lab that looked like a Pit? How do you know it wasn't a Spaniel that attacked one of those dogs? How do you know it wasn't a human that did that? Screw drivers and resemble the holes caused by dog teeth.
Please get SOLID proof before jumping to conclusions, such as a DNA test on said attacking dog to make sure there is even 'Pitbull' in it.

craven said...

the spaniel tore the leg off. yeah, that's the ticket.

LOL! fucktard!

DNA testing? you mean like this one?

LOL again fucktard!

Anonymous said...

The only thing canine DNA tests would be good for is to find family lines of killer/maulers and eradicate every last one of them, I don't care WHAT the owners claim their poochie is.

CULL THE MAN BITERS, and the dog/horse/cat maulers/killers as well.



Dayna Hamilton said...

I fucking HATE pitbulls. And I hate their idiot owners as much. The ones that comment after an article where a harmless dog or person was mauled and defend them are the most vile of all.

Anonymous said...

Anon, 2:29,

You prove that these attacks aren't caused by pit bulls. I love how DNA testing is necessary to conclude whether or not a pit bull did what pit bulls were bred to do. The very thing that defines pit bulls is the fact that they rip apart living beings.

It appears that you want to continue to live in a fairy tale land, where pit bulls are wiggle butts, would lick you to death, are just like regular dogs, and man biters were culled. You might not like reality, which is why you want to deny that pit bulls are responsible for the carnage presented here, but the fact remains. All of the animals were brutally attacked by pit bulls.

Saying otherwise, shows how delusional you are. Which is why we call pit bull apologists, nutters.

scorched earth said...

One of your most powerful posts ever. Thank you for remembering the peaceful creatures killed by pit bulls.

Anonymous said...

Holy shit! I hate these pit nutters so much.

craven said...

you can thank that lunatic nutter theorizing that a SPANIEL could TORE off the faces and limbs of these animals for this blog post being bumped front and center.


i hate the people who create and defend this hideous breed of dog even more than the hideous breed of dog.

PIT DISPATCHER said...

You know the saying-
ALL the money, and resources, are available when a pit is hurt.
NONE of the money, nor the resources, are available when anything is HURT BY a PIT.

In fact, if you defend your dog/kid from a pit bull attack and you may even get charged with cruelty! Heaven forbid you use whatever you can to stop the raging monster from rendering your loved ones! (And yes, any animal that's ripping up another IS a monster)

Its ridiculous, but we are NOT gonna stand by and watch our LOVED ones get mauled. NO MORE.

NUTTERS- I am putting YOU on notice, so read this very carefully:

IF YOUR MAULER ATTACKS ANYTHING WHILE I AM AROUND, I WILL KILL IT.

IF YOUR MAULER IS LOOSE AND MENACING SOMEONE/SOME ANIMAL, I WILL KILL IT.

IF YOUR MAULER KILLS/MAULS, BUT IS RETURNED HOME ANYWAY, I WILL KILL IT IF ITS LOOSE.

DON'T LIKE THIS?
HERE IS A SIMPLE SOLUTION-

KEEP YOUR MAULER PROPERLY CONTAINED AND CONTROLLED, AND THERE WILL NEVER BE AN ISSUE WITH YOU OR YOUR ANIMAL.

Really think about this- wouldn't YOU do the same if your dog was being killed in front of you?
Hell, nutters want to kill/rape/decapitate/muder the kids of people just for saying they don't like pits because they are dangerous. But you all will get pissed that I am willing to defend MY loved ones from an ATTACKING pit! Its insanity.

Besides- IF YOU are a "responsible owner", like most of you claim to be, than this DOES NOT APPLY TO YOU. Responsible people keep their dogs from harming others. YOU responsible owners should be going after those PB owners that make YOU look bad by having dogs that are out there killing and maiming, instead of getting all incensed that people like me are willing to fight to save our loved ones (human or animal)

This is actually a breed neutral promise (not a threat). I DON'T CARE WHAT KIND OF DOG IT IS, IF IT ATTACKS AND KILLS ITS GOING DOWN. But anyone with eyes and a brain knows that pits are the main culprits.

*They were and still are bred for dog fighting*, and were created to be the very best at shredding their opponent (or the innocent, whatever), what do you think the results of that breeding are going to produce? Pits are exactly what they were meant to be- killing machines. Just because SOME never flex their DNA, does not mean that they aren't a breed designed to kill. You never know which will attack until its way too late.

I swear, WE know pit bulls much better than nutters do. WE know the history. WE know the bloodlines, better than almost every nutter out there.

RSM said...

And get a clue- we know what pits are. People know what pits are. They are not hard to identify, and the term pit bull only covers a small handful of breeds (NOT 75), all directly related, all bred for the same purpose- fighting.

You all play this game whenever you don't like what PITS have done.

But, if a pit does something good, there are no arguments about its identity as a pit, no demands for DNA before the story is printed.
If someone says they don't like a particular pit, there is no argument about its identity as a pit. You defend it without asking for a DNA test.
When there are FREE programs just for pits, there are no arguments about what dogs are pits. No one fights about their identity, nor asks for DNA, when freebies are involved.

NOPE. You all deny a pit is a pit when they KILL, maim, or otherwise act like PITS DO.
Instead, you prefer to throw all dogs under the bus, pretending that all dogs leave the carnage that pits do, in order to normalize the vicious actions of your monsters.

Even if half of these were misidentified (nope!) there would STILL be thousands more than any other breed. And you all know it.

RSM said...

You see all the mangled pets left by pits and all you can do is bleat about "Prove it, get DNA". Ridiculous.

*There is NO conspiracy against pits! If any breed did the damage pits do, we would fight against them too.*

As you say- its been Dobermans, GSDs, and now pits, as if this doesn't prove OUR point that we would oppose ANY breeds that leaves such death and carnage.

You know why those breeds were hated? Because they killed, and maimed, and everyone knew it- In the decade that each was hated, the Doberman killed ONE person, GSDs killed ONE person. Before pits were killing at a rapid rate, this was horrific to the public!

Do you know why they are no longer hated? Because the breeders clamped down and realized there was an issue. They did what they needed to do to make their dogs safer.

So now its pits, and its PITS because THEY KILL, and they are killing and maiming at a pace never seen before! EVERYDAY at least one person gets put in critical condition, and more are attacked and sent to the ER. On average, pits KILL A HUMAN every 9 days, though this year it is more like 6 days. PITS rip the faces off children, tear the limbs off of adults, even brutally maul and kill their own owners!

What are Pit owners doing about it? What are they doing about irresponsible breeding, and over population, and idiots owning them? NOT A DAMN THING. While other owners and breeder of dogs that can be dangerous said "Uh oh, this is bad, we better fix this, we don't want others harmed!", pit owners doubled down. Instead of fixing the issues with their breed, they put out propaganda saying their dogs are sweet, safe, nanny dogs and great pets.

IF YOU STOPPED THE DAILY KILLING, MAULING, AND BREEDING SO THERE ARE THE MILLIONS IN SHELTERS, WE WOULD NOT CARE ONE BIT ABOUT YOU OR YOUR ANIMALS!

We do not think they are dangerous for no reason! We don't want them banned/ restricted/extinct because they are so sweet and misunderstood. We want BSL because you all have done NOTHING to stop THIS blood shed. You do nothing to end the PROBLEMS youselves, SO THE LAW MUST STEP IN protect the innocent.

YOU are all to busy sending death threats to those that lost kids to pits, threatening rape and mauling to those that want BSL, and otherwise pushing lies about your animals to bother FIXING THE ISSUES.

And this is why I say the only thing as horrible as a pit is a nutter owner. You all hate dogs, other animals, and generally hate people too. You show it in everything you do. Instead of protecting others, you spread propaganda. ITS SICKENING

B Cazz said...

Well done, RSM. Clear, to the point and a fantastic answer to the "first it was GSD, then it was dobermans..." battle cry.

craven said...

"Besides- IF YOU are a "responsible owner", like most of you claim to be, than this DOES NOT APPLY TO YOU. Responsible people keep their dogs from harming others."

harm is also fear. if run up on people wielding a gun, a knife, a pitchfork, i i would be charged with a crime.


"I swear, WE know pit bulls much better than nutters do. WE know the history. WE know the bloodlines, better than almost every nutter out there"

that's the problem, isn't?


the DECADES according to KAREN DELISE

Anonymous said...

Bravo Dawn! This post made me ill, physically ill. I strongly suggest that all the sane people out there who want to be able to protect themselves and their normal companion dogs do a few things. Carry a big sharp knife. And a Tazer. And some pepper spray. A gun, if you are able to legally. If you even THINK a mutant is a threat to you or yours, spray it and Taze it, them stab or shoot the shit out of it. Make sure it's dead!

Anonymous said...

Get these rats before they get you!

People need to figure out they need to do it before the deed.

Don't wait around for ac

Packhorse said...

Is craven in hiatus?

I was wondering about all of the older posts.

craven said...

"Is craven in hiatus?" yep.

Anonymous said...

You most likely have herd of the Internet celebrity cat "Lil' Bub." If not, here is a description of her from Wikipedia:

Lil Bub is a "perma-kitten," a dwarf and a polydactyl cat.[2][7] Her tongue always hangs out because of her short lower jaw and toothlessness but her appetite is unaffected.[2][7]

Lil Bub also suffers from a bone disorder called osteopetrosis for which she takes medication.[9][10] In late 2012, during the filming of Lil Bub & Friendz, she had a serious health episode and was diagnosed with osteopetrosis by a specialist in Indianapolis.[9][11][12] Bridavsky has studied reiki to care of her.[9][11] Lil Bub's short legs and osteopetrosis restrict her movement but she is "a fantastic waddler."[2][7][10]

Well, Lil' Bub's owners have also adopted a dog. I will give you one guess what kind of dog it is.

http://one-vibration.com/group/animal-encounters/forum/topics/meet-lil-bub?commentId=2127676%3AComment%3A1463728&xg_source=activity&groupId=2127676%3AGroup%3A1116142#.U8l6qpRdV94

Think about this. ANY large dog would be dangerous around this disabled cat, as she simply isn't agile enough to avoid being trod on. But to put a pit with this disabled, slow, and toothless animal...it sickens me.

Anonymous said...

one of the saddest posts ever.

Anonymous said...

Sorry if this is a bit unrelated but I wasn't sure where to post it. The "pit bull advocates" are praising themselves over a debate with Merritt Clifton. http://www.swaylove.org/talking-with-merritt-clifton?fb_comment_id=fbc_701384356600649_701611649911253_701611649911253#f40c58ea4
I found this blog because Lisa Marie Cusamo or whatever her name is started blathering on about how she challenges BSL supporters for a debate and they never take her up on it. On the contrary it seems she is the one ducking out when the challenge is accepted.

Anonymous said...

Sorry if this is a bit unrelated but I wasn't sure where to post it. The "pit bull advocates" are praising themselves over a debate with Merritt Clifton. http://www.swaylove.org/talking-with-merritt-clifton?fb_comment_id=fbc_701384356600649_701611649911253_701611649911253#f40c58ea4
I found this blog because Lisa Marie Cusamo or whatever her name is started blathering on about how she challenges BSL supporters for a debate and they never take her up on it. On the contrary it seems she is the one ducking out when the challenge is accepted.

craven said...

i tried to watch that ambush discussion. it was painful.

lisa camuso is a character isn't she?


i will have more to say on the topic of "character" at a later date :-)

Anonymous said...

So the felony laws are focused on dogfighting and not protecting neighborhood assaults? I agree it should be a felony in either case, but when I was reading the article it sounded like laws were designed to protect pit bulls. Correct me if I'm wrong, but any owner who takes any dog for the purpose of fighting would be charged a felony, and if a pit bull was attacked and mauled to death by an Akita there would be no felony charges against the owner of the Akita? Regardless of the confusing way it was written (or any mistake I had in understanding it) I'm absolutely in favor of felony charges for the owner of any dog that causes serious harm to another pet except for the cases such as when the dog is protecting itself or owner from an assault, home invasion etc Jump the fence, dig a hole through the yard, get loose from the leash - whatever the excuse - an owner should be responsible. In addition, I'd like restrictions and accountability contracts signed before anyone owns one of the powerful dog breeds.

Dog Education said...

I'd go father than Craven - why limit the felonies of owners to just fighting dogs? Be responsible and accountable for whatever dog you have. Let's focus on public safety for everyone and not over-concern ourselves with one breed or type of dog. Sure pit bulls are more dangerous, but a kid with a gun is dangerous if he has a pistol or a machine gun. Why overlook the pistol? When you can have sweeping laws that are just as effective why over-focus on one type of dog? I understand trying to ban the dog, but at the same time let's get practical laws on the books that hold all dog owner's accountable for whatever dog they own.

Anonymous said...

Ha! The delightful L Camuso, dented and wobbling and walking in loopy circles after offering her beefy biceps to this blog, yet, on she goes, oblivious and aimless as an unanchored bubble algae. Please come back, Camuso, the entertainment was.. it was...Truth! That's it!

craven said...

LOL anon 11:06!


dog education, i don't have a problem with your suggestion of expanding the felony charges to include all dogs, i was simply pointing out the discrepancy and how the nutters AND the system favors only the prosecution of people who with malice aforethought FORMALLY pit dogs against one another. formally is the operative word here because i am convinced that some of these nutters parade their mutants around in the hope that their ego extensions will attack our normal dogs.

Anonymous said...

Yes, good point, but pit bulls are the most immediate, visible, numerous and lethal of possible canine menaces, attenided by hordes of loathsome owners and idiotic disinformation. I've been a groomer for decades, also an employee in in a large boarding kennel. That doesn't say much for my intellectual calibre, but I do know a bit about dogs.The worst injury I got from a dog was from a German Shepherd, who partially severed a tendon in my leg with a few munches.He then stopped and I slipped out. Went on with our very busy 10 hour work day. Wasn't freaked out by GS's or other dogs . just wiser and sorer. Pit bulls, they annihilate. Their zeal in cause agony and obliteration sickens me. I've seen the aftermath on our gentle, overweight, loving old office cat, who would jump up to give every new arrival a friendly cudgel. Yeah, he died horribly at the age of nearly 17. I've seen a pit bull massacre a foolishly trusting mutt puppy, something I'd never witnessed before, and nearly 30 years later, still wrenches my stomach and heart. Pit bulls have NO PLACE in a sane society. They are the product and the intention of sadism. The very sight of them should shame us. The message is diluted, to rank these monstrosities with other dogs. They are royally irredeemably fucked up and they wear their maniacal ugliness like a sub-canine Caliban.
And yes, it would be a novel, good idea to make everyone accountable for the actions of their dogs. We had a neighbor that would stroll his big dog over so it could take a liesurely dump in our pristine middle-class front yard. My dad, being a Navy chief as well as a ridiculously gracious southern gentleman, was in a quandary about how to address this insult. People use thier dogs as blameless projections of themselves, and it's atrocious. We've all been driven nearly demented by a barking dog, or threatened or harassed by a loose one. No one should have their peace or property disrupted by another's dog. We're already drowning in legislation concerning every aspect of our lives. What's the answer? Teach the damn kids civility and consideration! And THEN fine or jail them!

Anonymous said...

Has anyone not seen the commercial with the baby crawling over the head of the prone Dane-type dog? Has the whole damn world become infected with massive sucking stupidity? Christ!!!

Dog Education said...

Craven, Great point - these dogs are an extension of criminals - without the consequences - not just attacking other dogs, but being let loose on innocent neighbors or perceived enemies. Many of the owners of these dogs have no impulse control. Piss them off somehow and whoops their dog got out - terrible mistake, sorry officer…They could care less whether the dog is shot or not.

But why would anybody oppose these laws apply to all dogs? So if pit bull advocates are serious about public safety and the laws won't affect other dogs because 99% of these attacks are pit bulls anyway it seems a terrible distraction to focus on laws targeting pit bulls. The laws will target pit bulls because pit bulls are the problem.

But if the so called pit bull advocates were so interested in public safety they would spend a lot less time defending their dogs and you would see them leading the charge on this issue to hold dog owner's responsible.

If it's just as easy to pass a law holding all dog owner's responsible I don't think owners of Beagles and Poodles are going to rise up and lobby because their dogs aren't running around mauling people, pets and livestock.

It seems there is an obvious solution if both sides agree on public safety - hold all dogs owner's accountable - that would target pit bulls (and the 1% or so of other dog breed incidents) and the pit bull advocate lobby couldn't fight it based on some discrimination, hard to identify a pit bull or whatever the excuse of the day is. Time for them to put up or shut up.

Forgive the rant, I'm new to the topic so there's probably something obvious I'm missing. I guess it's just my ignorance on how these laws are passed. Maybe it's easier to get a law passed reacting to the most obvious threat?

MSGT Dick Johnson said...

"Dog education" - so, what you're saying is basically the same thing as "why single out drunk drivers? why not hold all drivers accountable?"

At the very least all owners should be held accountable. That is a mandatory first step.

But like drunk drivers, people who choose to endanger their neighborhoods with a type of dog created to commit atrocities against helpless animals should be appropriately regulated, with special penalties, because they present a special risk and inflict an obscene level of suffering on innocent animals every day.

"Why punish only drunk drivers?", you ask. If you think only drunk drivers are punished when they get in accidents, you haven't been paying attention. But drunk drivers present a special risk and cause an undue share of accidents.

"Why single out pit bulls?", you ask? "Why not hold all dog owners responsible?" Again, all dog owners should, at a minimum, be held accountable. That would be a refreshing and sensible change.

But to continue playing whack-a-mole, waiting for the inevitable victims of pit bull attacks and dealing with each and every case on a piece-meal basis is insane. We can't afford to keep doing that. The victims deserve better.

Dog Education said...

Proactive laws and restrictions like you are talking about are important also.
I think in this article Craven is talking about felonies for dog owner's if they hurt or kill a person or pet. What he said was "every owner of a fighting breed, should be charged with a felony when their dog exercises its DNA."
I think he has qualified that to what you and I agree with that all dog owners should be responsible.
My point is if someone's dog jumps over my fence and rips my dog's throat out, I'd rather not have to determine whether or not this was a "fighting breed" or had some kind of DNA or genetic component that caused the dog to do that. Maybe it was registered as a Boxer mix at the vet and suddenly the dog is gone and I don't get to put someone away for the crime of a felony because I can't prove it was a fighting dog. It seems like an extra unnecessary loophole.

Anonymous said...

Anon 12:17,

Excellent post! I get so tired of reading posts from vet techs, and other "dog experts" that talk about how vicious (insert random dog breed here) are compared to pit bulls. You speak the truth, and it is refreshing.

Sonja Marmeladov said...

"Dog education" -

I'm not sure what your point is here. It sounds like you're trying to make the case that it's too much trouble to penalize owners of torturer breeds that exercise their genetic blueprints.

I can just imagine you wringing your hands and agonizing over how difficult it would be to "prove" the dog that went pit bull was a pit bull.

Here's an idea: If it quacks like a duck... right?

We know that there are vets who will lie and claim a pit bull is something else to allow people to traffic them into areas where they are not allowed.

We know that pit bulls that do their thing and rip up some poor animal or vulnerable human routinely have their breed identification changed to "mutt" after the attack.

We also know that there is no such thing as a pit bull DNA test.

But one thing we do know is that pit bulls look like pit bulls, just as GSDs looks like GSDs, Akitas look like Akitas, and Beagles look like Beagles. Funny how that works, isn't it?

Odds are the neighbor left a long and messy trail of evidence that he had a pit bull type dog and knew it. If the mutant goes missing, that shouldn't let the owner off the hook. It's like a parking garage. You can't "lose" your ticket and get out for free. Would you consider the ticket an "extra unnecessary loophole"?

Starving Opposite said...

That was the point about the lying vet.
If a vet stands in front of a judge and says "That dog is not a pit bull" after it killed someone's dog, then the person might not get a felony.
But if you have a law that targets all dog owners it would not allow that loophole.
Sounds easier to enforce and more comprehensive.

Anonymous said...

If you want to read a lying, sickening article (or blast it apart) written by a serious rescue angel, this one in Esquire Magazine it is. (ling below) In one part of the article the author's young daughter and her mother are spreading the word door to door about how wonderful grippers really are and this kindly old man comes out with his little Shih Tzu come out and he welcomes them on his porch. The gripper immediately gets away from the mother and goes for the helpless little dog and then bites the elderly man before they, thankfully, get him off. The small dog's leg was broken and the man needed treatment for his hand. At least rescue angels can afford to pay the other dog's and human's medical bills. Of course it wasn't the grippers fault, or the fault of grippers in general. That dog was trying to protect the little girl from the evil fluffy dog she was approaching.

http://www.esquire.com/features/american-dog-0814

Dwayne Johnson said...

"Starving opposite" aka "dog education" aka "hopeful one" -

It doesn't matter what a corrupt vet says. As long as the pit bull type dog looks and acts like a pit bull type dog, it's game over.

Take a look at the way the BSL guidelines are written in cities with successful safety initiatives, and you'll typically see language something like:

"pit bull type dog i.e. staffordshire terrier, american staffordshire terrier, american pit bull terrier, american bulldog, or any dog which substantially conforms to this type..."

So, no flaky DNA test (an accurate test does not yet exist), no testimony from corrupt vets, do not pass go, do not collect $200, go straight to jail, game over.

Anonymous said...

Dog Education-
It took me awhile to get this too, but the point of BSL is this, pit bulls are more dangerous that other dogs. Do some searching photos of dog bite victims. Try Linda Henry first. Should a breed of dog, designed for maximum aggression, tenacity and minimum bite control be allowed in our society? One whose sole selection criteria was for generations and generations to fight and kill?

Yes, I agree we need better laws and better enforcement to keep all dog owners in line, but you have to also understand the "Zero Margin of Error" required for safe pit bull ownership. Here, I'd refer you to the blog by Dax's Father.

Read up on all the babysitter "accidental" deaths that have happened due one factor, the babysitter owned a pit bull, not another type of dog.

Also, look up "Kissy Face", and ask yourself what good better punishment AFTER THE FACT would do for her owners?

I see this is an issue that requires fighting on multiple fronts, BSL AND better dog control legislation. Personally, I will fight for better dog control legislation, but after a ton of research, that I recommend you do as well, I will no longer criticize the folks that promote BSL>

Starving Opposite said...

I'm not against BSL. It makes sense to have proactive BSL laws.

However, the topic is making dog owners accountable for a felony after the fact.
When you have reactive laws it makes sense to make them breed neutral for the reasons already stated - more comprehensive, easier to enforce.

On the one case (BSL) you are working towards preventing people from having a semi-automatic weapon in the first place. That makes perfect sense. Nobody should have that weapon (according to most people.)

But in the example of a reactive law you are talking about someone who has already killed. So if you apply BSL after the fact you are only punishing those that used a semi-automatic weapon. Then there is the added burden of proving a semi-automatic weapon was used.

I'm failing to see the logic of applying BSL for a reactive law holding an owner accountable for his pet that killed another pet.

Craven said he doesn't "have a problem with (my) suggestion of expanding the felony charges to include all dogs."

But when I say it people have a problem with it.

Although the source can have some bearing on whether an idea is valid or not it should not be the only way people form their opinions.

Ideas should stand alone as valid or not based on their own merit.










craven said...

i hate the either or approach.

on the one hand, our side wants to single out specific breeds or as i prefer, gripping types. while the other side wants to hold all dog owners accountable.

why not do BOTH?

why can't we single out ugly gripping dogs AND hold all dog owners responsible for the horrific deeds of their dogs?

Starving Opposite said...

I agree Craven - I've been thinking about that because someone who has a pit bull should be accountable for the added risk they are taking.

I think you can do both.

For example, if BSL does not ban pit bulls altogether, when people purchase/register their dogs there can be added liability, mandatory jail time if the dog kills, etc. Existing problem pit bull owners can be served these contracts, sign them or lose their dogs.

We could debate how difficult it is to prove it was a pit bull type dog that killed after an incident (I think it will be much trickier than most people here have expressed) but I'm fairly certain it is an added unnecessary step that will allow some pit bulls to escape accountability.

I think if you want to accomplish both you can, but my idea is to get there by 2 different paths. This doesn't mean abandoning BSL or taking an either or approach. It just means working towards 2 things at the same time.

Cardinal said...

RSM, PIT DISPATCHER, you are amazing.

Thank you for your July 15 posts. As for RSM's take on Doberman and German shepherd fanciers stepping up to the plate. As ideal as it would be, I don't think there's a way to make pits not disproportionately aggressive and unpredictable. If there were, it would take generations and how many more people and animals would be lost to the cause? Because pit bulls were made for fighting, and no matter how hard you try, a dog's DNA is going to be there. No one denies collies compulsively herd when they don't have a job. But when it comes to pit bulls and their killing instinct, it's all in how you raise them.

Reforming a breed would likely change its physical form. Look at the taut muscle on a pit, the shape of the jaw...was THIS a dog that was meant to babysit kids?

GregK9 said...

Nice plate of fear mongering and sensationalism.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

blah blah blah

JamesPolymer said...

Sweet Jesus, man. Where to start?

First of all, can you identify a Pit bull on sight? Chances are, no, you cannot. The ability of armchair activists and news reporters to correctly identify a given breed is mediocre at best: http://www.toledoblade.com/image/2012/03/17/800x_b1_cCM_z/Pit-Bull-label-often-wrong-DNA-testing-shows.jpg What you refer to as a "pit-bull" can be any number of distinct breeds, such as the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, American Pit-Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, etc.

Second, do you have any scientific basis for your assumption that Pit-Bulls are "unpredictable"? I'll tell you who does have that authority; the National American Canine Temperament Testing Association. According to their data, the Golden Retriever, Poodle, Border Collie, English Setter, etc. are all more likely to show aggressive and unpredictable behavior than the Pit Bull. Do you see any media campaigns devoted to banning any of them? How about the scores registered on the nationwide behavioral testing of 231 breeds done by the same organization? Pit Bulls scored an average of 86% in these trials, compared to the average score of only 82%.

The National Canine Research Council conducted an independent study that goes far in explaining the preponderance of "Pit Bull" attacks in the media: http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/uploaded_files/publications/230603563_Pit%20Bull%20Placebo.pdf

Finally, pit bulls are used as police dogs, rescue dogs, and therapy dogs, even after suffering years of abuse in dog fighting rings. Look up "Hector", one of the dogs rescued from Michael Vick's fighting ring: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/22844052/ns/health-pet_health/t/underdogs-second-chance/ He went on to serve successfully as a beloved companion to children and senior citizens confined to hospitals.

There is much more to this breed than meets the eye. Please don't judge a book by its cover, and tear loving pets away from their families for no good reason. Punish the DEED, not the BREED.

Anonymous said...

I hate all dogs, absolutely hate them, for all the examples I just saw. They are always biting, barking, or smelling up a room. I hate the way they look and how dirty they are. I really feel sorry for the horses and cats that were attacked by the raging monsters, and I don't care what effing goddamn breed the beasts were. End of rant.