Thursday, September 6, 2012

location location location

this is true when it comes to real estate and even truer when it comes to pit bull attacks.

these are the top three best places to be menaced or attacked by pit bulls.

detroit michigan two pit bulls attacked a hospital employee in the parking lot. the mutants received dirt naps from hospital security guards.

“They’re good at getting out. No matter how good you tie them up and everything, they still find a way of getting out.” ~ a man who lives in the neighborhood


san diego california
an attempted mutant attack on a teenager walking his dogs was thwarted by the by off duty police officers who heard the barking while at the TARGET RANGE! both mutants were shot but unfortunately are still alive. LOL!


within 20 yards of stinger a mutant attacked and killed a jack russell terrier. a good Samaritan turned pittie's lights out with his bow and arrow before it could inflict anymore damage. :)

114 comments:

Jim Reeve said...

When pitters attack, they deserve to be put down. Lucky the guy had a bow and arrow, sad that the other pup had to die.

snarky said...


"when pitters attack, they deserve to be put down."
i totally agree .....the mutants too. lol

Stinger said...

For the first month after the attack, I kept asking myself "If I had been faster getting to my bow, would her dog have survived?"

Having had time to think about it, I would have to say that I have my doubts. The pit bull had the JR terrier by the back of the neck and everytime the JR yelped or squirmed the pit bull bit down harder. And to be completely honest, my thoughts were centered on the pit bull turning on her after it was finished with the JR terrier. I held her life to be more valuable than that of her dog, and I don't feel any shame for that whatsoever.

S.K.Y. said...

Stinger, I'm a lifelong dog fanatic and competitor, but I don't blame you a bit for waiting so you could head off the potential attack on the JRT's owner. I'm sure the whole thing happened so fast and your response at getting your bow was probably a lot faster than it seemed at the time. I don't blame you for not wanting to leave the JRTs owner out there alone with the pit while you went to get your bow, and who could blame you for waiting until the situation was somewhat stable before you did it. You're a hero!

DubV said...

Sorry I'm chronically off topic but I just read the best reply to this type of comment:

"and still to date the most dangerous,unpredictable animal on the streets is a human being,now what have you to say?"

and the reply?

"Good point, I will not get one as a pet."

found at

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2b8_1336523206#comment_page=4

vintage said...

GREAT PIT BULL MYTHS EXPLORED MOMENTS IN HISTORY:

San di Letgo-my-Leggo Bite Rate Data:

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/16/grappling-with-dog-bites/?page=1#article


Highest rate in the analysis:
Pit bull, 8.85 bites per 100 pit bulls

“Pit bull” does not include the American Staffordshire terrier, which had 2.37 bites per 100.Pit bulls had by far the highest rate of reported bites — almost three times more than the next highest breed’s.

Second-highest rate in the analysis:
Rottweiler, 3.03 bites per 100 rottweilers

An average rate in the analysis:
Bichon frise, 1.57 bites per 100 bichons frises

Lowest rates in the analysis:
Pug, 0.35 bites per 100 pugs
Golden retriever, 0.34 bites per 100 golden retrievers

Source: San Diego County Department of Animal Services

* 3 of these "bites" were actually DBRFs!

ADDED BONUS!

IDYLLIC CALGARY INCIDENT RATES BY BREED:

Calgary data from 2003 indicate that certain breeds are overrepresented when it comes to aggressive incidents such as bites, chases and injuries. Nearly two per cent of German Shepherds, five per cent of Rottweilers and their crosses, and 15 per cent of pit bulls had been involved in an incident http://www.calgaryherald.com/life/Police+probe+whether+vicious+attack+deliberate/7119098/story.html#ixzz24A3ZOZ8s

SayWHAT?!?

Remember, Pit Bulls bite less than other breeds.....


*DISCLAIMER...You Can't Make This Stuff Up!

Putme Incharge said...

Dub V, I love that comeback comment. Priceless.

Clearly the San Diego PD needs more target practice since both pit bulls survived. Anyone want to bet if an owner comes forward they will sue for vet bills?

I now have one of the neighborhood yentas walking their pit bull by my ranch every ecening. The other day the dog locked its eyes on me as I was doing chores. Lovely. Normally I have two of my dogs with me when I do my evening chores. Now the Pomeranian stays at the house in the evening.

Last but not least do they have a CAPTCHA for those who have 40+ year old eyeballs....sigh it usually takes me three times to get one right....lasik surgery here I come

DubV said...

I wish that San Diego and other cities with bite stats would categorize bites per breed into a few categories based upon severity and whether or not the biter was registered. The first want has an obvious reason. The second would get around the pit nutter screed of misidentification and their claims of lowest rates for pit bull registration among breeds. You could state the rates as registered biters among registered population and control for nutter excuses.

dawn james said...

stinger, normal people don't think you have any reason to feel shame.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Vintage,

The odds of finding pit bulls or APBT or whatever they're calling them this week, is limited. I've noticed a trend to call their dogs Boxer-mix or Lab-Boxer mix. Realistically, pit bulls are still not being fully accounted for. Of course, to other pit nutters, they are pit bulls, to every one else, they're a mix of lab and boxer, especially when they attack.

DubV said...

blogged by dogs bite decatur al

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20120907/NEWS/309070102/Woman-sues-Belmont-kennel-after-pit-bull-attack?odyssey=nav%7Chead&nclick_check=1

So-called "dog people" lack the common sense to be trusted with your dog. My vet likes to take the dogs in the back for exams, but I make her treat my dog in the exam room with me present. I don't trust a vet tech that doesn't breed discriminate to NOT walk my dog right by a fighting breed in the backroom.

snarky said...

in spite of protestations of hate and prejudice and even "doggy racism" against their chosen master breed , ive noticed that pitters seem to really hate small dogs. bet stingers scummy neigbor was just itching for his mutant to get that j.r.t. guess he got more than he bargained for ....stupid shit ..lol.

snarky said...

dubv.
yeah, half the problem with pitters is their own ignorance of their chosen master breed , not ours , or the publics , or the medias . if they were half as concerned as we are , there would be little problem. those pits that never have incidents or show aggression are the ones with owners who are proactive and aware of their mutants , not the ones who are sure their mutants are sweet lil darlins. i really think many of these people are just too dumb to realize that what hurts others might end up hurting them too . they just see someone else getting hurt and thats no big deal . however, when it looks like troubles acomin, pitters scurry like cock-roaches ....lol.

Packhorse said...

We were in Petco shopping for dog supplies last night when in came a typical redneck pit-owning couple with their unneutered (of course) male pit and their daughter, who looked to be about 5 years old. The dog was wildly scrambling along the floor, literally pulling the man behind him while the girl skipped alongside the gripper. Sigh...

Putme Incharge said...

Packhorse,
Your comment reminded me of an incident I had at a PetSmart several years ago.

I stopped in with my two obedience titled dogs to buy some supplies.
My dogs were walking next to me in heal position as I pushed a cart.

Unfortunately it was "adoption" day
and what I did not see until I came around the corner to the cash register area was a young teenage girl sitting in a chair and holding a pit bull on a leash. Suddenly the dog lept towards us snarling literally LIFTING the girl off the chair. At the same time I shoved my cart at the lunging dog two adults grabbed at the dogs leash. Thankfully nothing happened to my dogs, but I was shaken up.

I went ballistic, got management and then the "rescue cooridnator" came over and tried to insert herself. I told her that dog had no business being out of a crate or in public and if out should be on a pinch collar as well. She sputtered at how a pinch collar would make the dogs aggression problems worse. I said OH so you are allowing a child to hold a dog in public that has known aggression issues. She sputtered off.

I called and e mailed Pet Smart. I got was an apology, and they said they would not allow the dogs to be out of crates at that point.

I can say I have never been back on "adoption" day to check.

Someone commented that so many "dog people" lack common sense. That is so true. You have to chalk that up to todays click and treat trainers who have everyone convinced that if you love em and "socialize" them they will ignore their genetic predispotision. I used to spend time on the worst site in the world for nutters- Yahoo Answers.
(I have linked Craven, Four Legged Friends and Enemies and DBO so often I even had someone acuse me of being Craven...I was quite flattered)
If I had a dollar for every time people said that they wanted to take their dog aggressive pit bull to the dog park I would be rich.
It really does blow my mind.

Rumplestiltskin is spot on about the blatant mis-labeling of dogs passing them off as Boxer Mixes, Rhodesian Ridgeback Mixes, Shar-Pei Mixes.... it makes me sick.
However by doing that the shelters make their dogs more salable (call it what it is only children are adopted-dogs are bought and sold)
Just yesterday on our morning news they were ooohing and awing over a puppy who came from South Central LA that was available and called it a Boxer mix, yep and I am Miss America.

DubV said...

Packhorse, things like that is why I stopped taking my dog to pet stores long ago. He's a non-pit and acts fine besides wanting to hike his leg where other dogs have already. I don't want to run into a nutter. I remember a few attacks by grippers in various pet stores in the news.

70dd0968-b7d2-11e1-92d9-000bcdcb5194 said...

@Putme incharge
This is so true, it's not even funny "Someone commented that so many "dog people" lack common sense. That is so true. You have to chalk that up to todays click and treat trainers who have everyone convinced that if you love em and "socialize" them they will ignore their genetic predispotision."

It was a similar incident to these last two that put me the camp of "We've got to get rid of these dogs, people are too stupid to own them". I was at the vet with my 5 yo bc when a pb yanks his cityboy owner out of his chair in an attempt to get at a tiny puppy that was sitting on its very rotund middle-aged owners shoulder. What flashed through my head was, "Where to I stash Alice, so she's safe?", "Where's my knife?" and "Can I get around the large lady to help before the stupid dog knocks her down and kills her puppy?"

Just a week before I'd seen a flyspeck of a man being hauled around by two of these dogs and I've just had it. I do not believe human beings are smart enough to own these types of dogs, period.

I'm sure some of you know this, but there used to be a type of dog known as a "Spit Dog" (not spitz dog) that's job was basically to run constantly in a contraption that looked like an over-sized gerbil wheel that was rigged up to turn a spit cooking large hunks of meat over a fire. When that method of cooking lost favor, that type of dog disappeared. That's not a surprise to me, because to do that kind of job, the dog had to be more wired than a flyball playing border/jack.

Nobody mourns the passing of the spit dog. It didn't have its own lobby and rescue organizations. How is it we're so stupid about the pitbull?

DubV said...

Putme in charge,

Have you been accused of being a paid lobbyist for BSL yet?

A twerp named Clay Hund likes to throw that out. And I think Bully Bob too. Kind of ironic seeing how there is an actual paid lobby for pits, and those two I'm guessing are part of it.

DubV said...

Wow, thanks for the tidbit of knowledge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turnspit_Dog

After reading this, I feel bad for the turnspit dogs of the past.

snarky said...

theres so many of these "master race" dogs now that petstores and vets and even spca's feel they have to turn a blind eye to what these dogs are. obviously as money speaks louder than blood its up to us to not deal with these establishments. the concept of a master race is a flawed now as it was during the nazi regime . i quess skinheads can hardly own poodles so i quess we need B.L.S.as much as we need hate laws.

DubV said...

Great comeback to the pit nutter screed:

"I was bit by a chihuahua!"

"ts funny to read these stories and see all the comments people post comparing the ferocity of chihuahuas to pit bulls. I guess one thing that really stands out to me is that when a chihuahua bites, you live to post a comment. Silly to compare the 2 breeds guys...get real!"

70dd0968-b7d2-11e1-92d9-000bcdcb5194 said...

That's it, turnspit dogs. Sorry for mis-remembering the name. Yeah, they probably had horrid lives, as fighting dogs have horrid lives. I still wouldn't want to own either.

Good comeback to the chihuahua bite stories. It might have more punch if it could be compressed a wee bit.

I've been thinking about comebacks to pitters' stock lines a lot lately. Maybe it'd be fun to have a friendly contest.

Here are a couple:
"Punish the Deed not the Breed."
response: "Improve the Breed, Cull the Manbiters!"

and then they'll say:
"It's not the breed, it's bad owners!"
response: "Incarcerate the owners!"

Just a thought.
Now here's a serious question for all you bright people.

Let's say, hypothetically, you know some guy who's told you on two occasions that he knows another guy who fights dogs, and that the first guy "should probably turn him in". You're pretty sure the first guy hasn't turned the dog fighter in because he's afraid of retaliation.

What would you do? Also, is this an AC issue, or a police/sheriff issue?

cazz

USMC Vet said...

So just a comment and im sure im going to be crucified for this but i dont care.... Pitbulls are not all mutants and frankenmonsters or whatever you call them...... many people that get these dogs have no idea what they are getting into and they are not properly cared for.... these dogs have a high energy level and need to be exercised they need a direction for their energy they need RESPONSIBLE owners that wont treat them with the idea that they will be a good dog on their own... im not saying you people are closed minded or anything of that nature but to put all dogs together as a danger and calling them mutants is NO DIFFERENT than saying all of a particular race of people are criminals or low lifes or what have you.... i see in some of the postings that aside from having a poor look on the breed of dog you also like to group the owners into a congregation of felons and drug dealers while some people that own them may be a such... not all APBT owners are in that category.... your blog postings are nothing more than prejudice banter

70dd0968-b7d2-11e1-92d9-000bcdcb5194 said...

Hey, USMC Vet-
Border Collies have the same high energy and require intelligent, active owners to channel that constructively. Problem is, most owners aren't and when BCs go bad, you get a neurotic dog that digs up your yard and shreds your house. Pits dig up your yard and shred your neighbors and their animals.

If you all Pit apologists would step up and PAY THE PRICE when your dogs go bad AND call your brethren on their poor ownership skills, we Mauler Haters would have never started calling you names.

cazz

dawn james said...

cazz, i would strongly advise against contacting AC. the overwhelming majority seem to be worthless when it comes to investigating common every day complaints. i think very few of them are qualified to lead such an investigation. they should be used only in their capacity as dog catcher during the raid. my preferred contact would be the state police, if i didn't get a good response, i would start working backwards - county then city LE.

usmc vet, i don't think every single pit bull is a ticking time bomb. i don't think every single pit bull owner is a felon or drug dealer. in fact, some of the most dangerous pit bull owners are the law abiding fur mommies, the no kill freaks, the rescue angels, the vegan animal rights kooks - like DARLA NAPORA. thankfully, her stupidity and naivete only killed herself.

i don't understand why the pit bull defenders insist on equating the inalienable rights of humans to dogs. why limit yourself to dogs, why not domestic house cats? how about horses? have you ever really thought that sentiment through? it is legal to chain dogs but not people. i bet you support chaining too. how on earth can you people equate dogs and humans?

USMC Vet said...

Delete comments of a person that was trying to see your side of the story??? Cmon... enlighten me on why every pitbull is a "mutant"

dawn james said...

oh yeah, and that turnspit dog, what a sad pathetic existence, even more so than a pit fighter living on a chain but not as pathetic a dog in a puppy mill or a dog bred for research.
the end of that breed was a good thing.

USMC Vet said...

Apologies fot thinking my comment was removed.... i am using my phone and didnt see it up there... ok i see your point in if a pitbull g:ets out and if thqt dog attacks someone or some thing then i wouod agree that whatever is on the defensive side would have a serious problem on its hands, however a properly socialized animal no matter what breed will more than likely not be a "mauler or attack" someone or some thing... my homeowners insurance was canceled once because the insurance company did an inspectiob and saw my rottweiler laying by the sliding glass door to my back yard.... they even said he didnt even bark at them but they canceled my policy because he was there. That was total BS but anyhow IN MY OPINION to condemn a breed of dog and its owners as "mutant maulers and criminals" is unfair.

Miss Margo said...

Hi Cazz;

Do they have "Secret Witness" in your community? It's the program where you can turn someone in anonymously, or leak info to the cops anonymously. You can even get paid sometimes if you drop a dime on someone or something the police are really looking for.

I would urge the first guy to call secret witness, or call secret witness yourself. And if he's/you're still worried about doing it anonymously, most communities still have a few working payphone downtown.

I think I'd go with the cops before the AC. Dog fighting is not super high on their priority list, but I bet that any creep who gets busted for it has priors. The cops will know him.

Good luck with it

Rumpelstiltskin said...

USMC Vet said,

"So just a comment and im sure im going to be crucified for this but i dont care"

That's a big part of the problem, pit bull owners don't care. They repeat the pit bull propaganda while more victims pile up. If their pit decides to maul a dog or human, they make excuses for the mauling or killing and claim no responsibility.

There are many pit bull owner quotes from news articles about how their pit "never showed signs of aggression" or "the other dog started it"...on and on and on.

Then there's the most recent about the 2 year old bulldog who had its eye ripped out by a pit bull. The kennel claims the Bulldog (victim) was aggressive, yet somehow the pit bull seems to have come out unscathed. That kennel is getting sued by the Bulldog's owners, and rightfully so.

I would never put my dogs in a kennel who housed pits.

Miss Margo said...

USMC Vet: "..im not saying you people are closed minded or anything of that nature but to put all dogs together as a danger and calling them mutants is NO DIFFERENT than saying all of a particular race of people are criminals or low lifes or what have you...."

Actually, USMC Vet, discrimination against people according to their race is very, very different than discriminating against dogs according to their breed.

Besides being WRONG, your comparison is shallow. Like, 6th-grade shallow. All prejudice is not equal under the law. Humans have civil rights and enjoy legal protection; dogs have practically zero rights...the right not to be tortured, perhaps, if and when that is even enforced. The most rights a dog has is as a piece of property...

Your insurance company cancelled your policy because you lied about your Rottie or otherwise failed to inform them of her. Them's the rules. I would feel mad too, if I were you, but the facts are that Rotties are a liability. Your insurance company has no political agenda against Rotties or Pits. They just want to maximize profit and minimize liability. They hired lots of statisticians to crunch the numbers, and they all--independently--reached the same conclusion: Rotties are a liability. Even if YOURS is sweet and good as gold. You must understand this, surely.

70dd0968-b7d2-11e1-92d9-000bcdcb5194 said...

Ah, USMC Vet, you obviously missed the lecture about probabilities in boot camp. Let me explain, insurance is like gambling, except in a topsy turvy way. YOU bet your premium that something bad WILL happen and the insurance company agrees to pay out X amount if it does. Your premiums are set according to the insurance companys' number crunchers estimates of dog X's propensity and ability to do something horrible and cost them a bundle of money.

Statistically speaking, your rottie's ability cause expensive damage is equivalent to Seattle Slew's ability to out run a bunch of Shetland ponies. A pit would be more along the lines of Secretariat outrunning those ponies, just for perspective.

It's the same as if a 18 year old boy gets handed the keys to his brand new Ferrari, he's probably going to have a tough time getting insurance, even though he's got a perfect driving record and has never shown ANY tendency for aggressive driving.

Do ya follow?

Oh, and PLEASE don't drop back to equating animals with people, it makes you sound like a third grade girl.

cazz

DubV said...

USMC Vet,

My position is that pits and a few other breeds are significantly more likely to cause a problem for humans or other pets. Also, pit owners tend to be rather irresponsible and a few other things as well.

You are casting the message as a universal statement (all pits are like X, all pit owners are Y), and it simply isn't honest. If we were making universal statements and the entire argument was based upon them, then it would be an easy job for you to refute them. However, that is not the case.

Do you agree that for most traits, there is a breed specific average and some variation around it? Do you agree that the selective breeding of fighting breeds over time has shifted their average for important traits and so makes them (again, on average) a greater liability?

DubV said...

Also, because no one has yet said it, generalizing about a dog breed is not like generalizing about human races for a few reasons already brought up but also because dog breeds were created so that we could stereotype dogs so that we could pick the right puppy for certain things. Discriminating among things (type of liquids or rocks or dogs) is absolutely necessary, you do it everyday, and the very reason the idea of having dog breeds was specifically so that we could discriminate among puppies. Not all greyhounds are fast, but the average greyhound is faster than the average beagle. If you want a dog to race, then choose the greyhound pup over the beagle one. Further, with other choices available, if you want a very safe dog, don't choose one that is of the breed with a bad rap to fight, that is constantly in attack reports, seems to be killing more people than any other breed, and was bred to kill other dogs.

Living a long and trouble free life that does not negatively influence others requires NOT compounding unnecessary risk. When you choose a more dangerous dog it is a double whammy morally because YOU get almost all the positives, while you force others around you to share the risk. Not cool.

Miss Margo said...

People pay, USMC Vet. They pay even for the things they didn't do.

How can you legitimately complain about the stigma pits and rotties carry, when pits and rotties have mauled and killed so many people...? Your attitude ought not be: YOU'RE WRONG AND PREJUDICED AGAINST MEEEEEE! but I UNDERSTAND, YOU ARE RIGHT, AND I WILL BE SURE MY DOG NEVER DOES THAT.

I used to have guns and a CC permit before I moved to NYC. A few times, someone found out and got into my face about it. Was I defensive? No, because they HAD A POINT. Can you look at the big picture--not just your own experience with your own dogs? That might help you understand the arguments you see from people here.

snarky said...

usmc vet didnt really get crucified ..... words are not like spikes and whips but being chewed by a pit bull is getting pretty close . pitters like to get their knickers in a twist about their rights and their chosen master breed but they seem oblivious to anyone elses rights .

Miss Margo said...

excellent point(s), Snarky.

I have seen a cartoon of a pit bull crucified for propaganda purposes.

DubV said...

Yeah...um...take it from me....don't google

crucified pit bull

to try and find that image. You won't find it in the first page of google image hits, and you'll feel very disturbed at what you just waded through and quit early.

Sputnik2009 said...

Ms. USMC still believes socialization and training can remove genetically determined motor and behavior patterns. End of discussion about this girl being some kind of responsible pit-owner. [Sorry, but I don't believe it's really a vet or a man. And BTW, if it is a male, and he's insulted by being called a girl, then he better check his sexism before he accuses anyone of racism, doggie or otherwise.]

DubV, you mentioned before the continuum fallacy. I'd like to quick point out the bell curve fallacy an awful lot of academics are using to say most PBs will be just like any other dog. Sure, there is a bell curve -- but the overlap is almost nihil. Even the slowest of greyhounds will still outrun the very fastest of beagles. It's in the genes -- the body structure, the way the brain drives that special body (running by leaps rather than steps, the leaps longer than any beagle can do even if it does leap, depth of chest and size of lungs relative to body thus efficiency of oxygen exchange, etc).

Even if we believe people should be allowed to have *licensed* guns (which at this point I do), there's no sane reason why a citizen not living in a war zone needs an AK47 or a howitzer. Hahaha, unless that reason be because pit-type dogs often survive and keeping attacking despite several ordinary rounds to the head or body.

But what I mean to say is, a watchdog is supposed to alert humans so they aren't taken by surprise. The humans can then handle the situation. There's no need to have a dog that will maul and kill some intruder. Even less need to have an unpredictable grenade dog whose hair-trigger is invisible so we never know whether or not it's engaged (until it happens). BTW, if the intruder has a gun, your PB or Rott is a goner anyway -- and by the time the burglar has shot the pit/Rott, he'll likely be so full of adrenaline that he's more likely to shoot you too.

It's all just such a futile exercise, nothing to do with sane realities, everything to do with personal angst, inferiority complex, narcissism, etc.

Putme Incharge said...

Sputnik2009 said...
Ms. USMC still believes socialization and training can remove genetically determined motor and behavior patterns. End of discussion about this girl
--------------

So many of you touched on points that popped up in my brain as I read USMC's post.

I have assisted with dog training classes for the last eight years.
I have seen PLENTY of pit bulls who were raised from puppyhood by very nice people. They loved them, they "socialized" them and did everything that would be right by a NORMAL dog. Then adulthood sets in. We see it all the time usually about a year and a half to two years old these dogs become who they were bred to be. The owners are honestly SHOCKED that their wiggle butt wants to attack other animals. They act insulted that their love is ignored by their doggy. Our most recent- and worst case came to class after the click and treat classes had failed.
Dog raised from a puppy and now at almost two years old -well they came to the class for "dog aggression" issues BUT the dog was so bad the instructor set up a private session where the lovely young couple came clean and told us how the dog was now wanting to go after people. They related two stories that made my blood go cold.
The day they were talking to their neighbor out on the sidewalk, dog on a leash. The dog knew the neighbor and yet the dog suddenly went ballistic and tried to eat said neighbor. The other story was how they were out talking to someone they knew and a five year old on a bike went by and it was all they could to to stop the dog from getting to her- but did.
They ignored the advice that was given to them by the instructor and their money was refunded. If they kept that dog we will sadly read about it in the paper one day.

Thanks to this site and others that I constantly send to them, I have slowly but surely convinced the trainer that they should band these kind of dogs from training classes.

Bottom line as I have said so many times before- I can no more love out my herding dogs genetically predisposed instinct to herd then anyone can love out their fighting dogs instinct to fight and kill.
The day I believe I can is the day I need to stop owning dogs.

DubV said...

Sputnik,

I'm glad you brought up the "bell curve fallacy". There are a few ways this is referred to that I've seen. First, is assuming things have a bell shaped curved. The second is being unfamiliar with what happens when very rare events at the edges of the curve, or downplaying those rare events in your math or mental models. I think both fit.

As far as shifting a bell curve, many distributions, most famously the normal or bell curve, drop off exponentially as you move from the mean, giving them a characteristic concave shape. This means something interesting happens as the distribution is shifted left or right.

For illustration, take as an example this bell curve for IQ scores.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IQ_curve.svg

Imagine our threshold is a score of 140 and this is the minimum score for those that could be potential nobel prize winners. In the standard population, about 0.38% of the population will score at or above that threshold.

Now, let's say in half the US population an early childhood nutrition and education program is initiated that shifts their mean score to the right by 10 points. If the variance does not change, then about 2.27% of their population will beyond our threshold.

2.27/0.38 = 5.97

By that seemingly moderate change, if all else is equal, there will be 6 potential nobel prize winners in that community for every 1 in the one without the program.

If you can buy that there is a threshold for dog aggression and that breeders of fighting breeds pushed the distribution in that direction, then no wonder we are so much more likely see them in the news and why it is true that most pit bulls do not kill but most dogs that kill are pit bulls.

DubV said...

Putme said...

"They ignored the advice that was given to them by the instructor and their money was refunded. If they kept that dog we will sadly read about it in the paper one day."

Millan is partly responsible for these people thinking all they need is the "right" trainer and their dog will be fixed. This has led to many injuries, I'm sure. It seems to go hand in hand with modern entitlement and the idea that one can have it all. You want your pit bull that turned vicious to be rehab'd so you can love on him and not feel the pain of putting him down? Why, just search the internet and get out the debit card, I'm sure your dreams are just a click away!

Putme Incharge said...

DubV- first let me say I am a big fan of yours. Your posts are so spot on and well written- clear and concise.

Did you have to get me started on Cesar Milan..

A few weeks ago while flipping channels there was a new episode.
The people had purchased a blind and deaf dog from some "rescue", to go along with their pit bull.
Now at about two years old their pit bull was getting more and more dog aggressive as they took the two dogs out on walks.
The fur mommy and daddy decided that it was like that because the pit bull had to "protect" the blind and deaf dog.

Do you think Cesar addressed that it was the dogs breeding/heritage that made it want to attack other dogs......of course not. I forget what lame excuse he used, but both dogs were magically cured by the end of the episode..........cut to butterflies, rainbows and unicorns and the birds singing in the trees
(well the one dog was still blind and deaf so it was not a complete cure- if only the producers of the show could have pulled off that story line)

Dayna Hamilton said...

I think it's hilarious when we are called racist for discriminating against a BREED of dog when the people doing the name calling are the ones who discriminately choose a particular breed, for whatever reason.

DubV said...

Thanks Putme! I enjoy your comments as well.

From four legged friends and enemies shown on craven's side bar...

http://fourleggedfriendsandenemies.blogspot.com/2012/09/winston-salem-woman-attacked-by-five.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+FourLeggedFriendsandEnemies+%28Four+legged+friends+%28and+enemies%29%29

The link to the original article is at the bottom of the post and a video is found there.

My hats off to the man who ran out half naked to defend his helpless neighbor. I'm glad the bat worked, it often doesn't.

Also, I'm glad the neighborhood seemed to come together and was going to take these mutants out themselves before LEO showed up.

DubV said...

Nutters on millan

http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?74430-what-are-your-thoughts-on-Cesar-Millan

DubV said...

Stand up comedian Charlie Murphy (Eddie's brother) on Millan...


http://www.comedycentral.com/video-clips/avp42j/live-at-gotham-charlie-murphy---the-dog-whisperer

Rumpelstiltskin said...

DubV,

I've read a few pit bull message threads before and what they discuss is exactly what they don't talk about in public. At first, most bash Cesar Milan (surprising because I thought they love him for being a pit bull advocate). Then they discuss breed specific traits, dog aggression, and game. Dog aggression and game is what gets the pit bulls in so much trouble.

A few of them state that "the only way to test gameness is in the PIT". Oh boy, what a shocker. Also I read some few stories about how dog aggressive their pits are and how even pit bull puppies will sometimes try to kill each other off. What sweet pibbles.

This is all the stuff the National Canine Research Council won't talk about because pit bulls are "just like any other dog". Yeah right.

It's disgusting to see that this pit bull double-talk has gone on for so long.

I'm willing to bet the same ones who acknowledge the dog aggression and game genetic traits of the pit bull dogs are also the ones who state pit bulls are "just like any other dog" in public.

snarky said...


when a pitter says their dog is sweet and loving , what it means is the pit loves its owner or the owners kids or friends . the pitter doesnt mention the times that the mutant did show aggression . or the pitter means the dog is generally nice with people . the pitter leaves out the part called dog aggression. many of these pitter types dont consider dog aggression to be a concern .....all dogs bite and fight ect. so its a case of half truths and omission rather than being honest and straight forward. when i hear these people talk , i know to take it all with a grain of salt . the pitter talk is just so much brown stuff from the dogs back end and its the front end that means business.

Miss Margo said...

I love pitbull-chat. The first time I went there, I almost crapped my pants. It was like a confirmation of my paranoid fantasies. I mean, just the stories about peoples' dogs starting to get aggressive with family members, or embarassing them in public, or killing the neighbors' dogs. I started to do searches like "lawsuit from neighbor" and "my dog bit me." The stories, my lord...

There are other common themes. One which annoys me is outrage directed towards normal unleashed dogs and their owners. Of course I agree that dogs should be leashed, but pit nutters seem to think that just because their dogs need to be kept on lockdown or tight control 24/7, everyone else's dogs should be, too.

And then the constant outrage and hurt feelings that some people dislike or are afraid of pitbulls. There are threads and threads about it. They like to play discrimination olympics with threads like, "What is the meanest thing anyone ever said to you about your dog or pit bulls?"

DubV said...

I would be interested if the pitbull-chat crowd say one thing there and then lie in public forums, or if it is a different set of nutters. It is amazing how many nutters will even flat deny the history of the breed, common characteristics, have never heard of break stick..etc. And then they call us ignorant, uneducated, and in need of research. I'm not sure what is going on there.

I have a feeling that the more honest pit bull forums will go non-public the more we use them for show and tell. Too bad their whole site just can't be downloaded at once to a hard drive, and then it will be cached for keeps.

Anyone have an idea if that is possible? Jake might know.

Jaloney said...

Problem is many LOCATIONS are pitbull holes now.. There is no where to move...

Jake said...

DubV that is an interesting idea. I will have my people look into it.

dawn james said...

i am looking forward to jake's response. i have a massive collection of incriminating threads from various forums. about 4 gigs worth. if there is an easier way, i am all for it.

dawn james said...

there are some pit nutters who have bought into the dog whisperer. i think the majority don't approve of him though.

pit bull-chat is slightly better than most of those forums. pitbullforum.com and pb-smiles are the worst.

but hey, the world is a little bit safer today. another gripper snuffed out their owner. go arkansas dingbat. the damn dogs recently sent the 45 yr old hybristophiliac to the hospital before delivering the fatal blow.

idiots. this one truly DESERVED it.

Jake said...

So far I'm told that this would involve a lot of manual labor. Programs exist to download sites, but these work best on static html, and are often unable to navigate the transient links typical of forum software, where static content consists only of boilerplate, headers etc, and the real meat of the page is dynamically generated with database queries.

Star said...

Okay, really people. I agree that if any dog attacks it needs to be put down. I don't care if its a Chihuahua or Doberman. If my Pit Bull attacked someone or another animal (unless that other animal is a cat) I would put him down myself. But, not all dogs that are Pit Bulls or dogs of the like are demonic or evil or viscous at all. Yes, there are Pit Bull hubs, where you find more of them then any one single breed and that has harmed the overall ownership of these dogs. Then there are the thousands of people who shouldn't own any dog and decide that they can handle and control a Pit Bull. 99% of the time they are proven wrong and someone or some animal ends up suffering or dead because of it. Stupid people shouldn't be allowed to be dog owners period. There needs to be harsher punishment for owners if a dog attacks or bites, regardless of the breed or type. You people seem to forget that all dogs have teeth and all dogs bite. If we, as decent human beings, worked together to save all dogs from horrible people, had more spay/neuter programs and went after anyone who had a dog that PROVED to be dangerous there would be less attacks and bites on record. Let's go after stupid, horrible, irresponsible people before we kill potentially innocent animals. We as people created them, we need to take care of them.

Stinger said...

Star said: "If my Pit Bull attacked someone or another animal (unless that other animal is a cat) I would put him down myself."

So you don't care if your pit bull slaughters someone's cat? This just shows that you are no different than the other pit bull owners who love to watch their fighting dogs kill other animals. I am of the opinion that it is a mental defect of some sort, not certain exactly which kind of defect though.

You also say we should go after stupid, horrible people, irresponsible people. Let's start with you: You have already shown yourself to be irresponsible, perhaps even horrible in that you would enjoy watching your dog kill a neighborhood cat. I do not know if you are stupid or not, though. I will reserve that judgement for later.

One thing that I will say: If you lived near me & I saw your pit bull killing a neighborhood cat, he would get the same treatment (perhaps with the same arrow & broadhead) that the other attacking pit bull recieved.

I have absolutely no use for this breed of dog, other than fertilizer. Or an archery target...

dawn james said...

it's those mean stupid horrible irresponsible abusive neglectful INDECENT people that are the problem. yeah, right.

i don't have a problem with holding ALL dog owners responsible for the actions of their dogs. i doubt that any of the craven readers would have a problem with it either. so answer this. why are the pit bull owners the only ones to come out and fight against NON breed specific legislation?

we as people created them, we as people need to UNCREATE them. because let's face it, the good ship lollipop scenario that you paint, ONLY goes after the stupid horrible people AFTER their dog is PROVEN to be dangerous. that means people and their pets will continue to destroyed while slick harvard educated bottom feeding scumbag lawyers like STEVEN WISE tie up the system with their frivolous appeals, while DECENT law abiding people are ruined financially and psychologically.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Star says, "Okay, really people. I agree that if any dog attacks it needs to be put down. I don't care if its a Chihuahua or Doberman. If my Pit Bull attacked someone or another animal (unless that other animal is a cat) I would put him down myself."

Doubt that. Most pit bull owners hide their pits and make excuses. Even when family members have been harmed. There's just something wrong with people who choose to own a pit bull.

Historically, you'll follow the path of all the pit bull owners behind you and if your pit kills something, you'll try and save it anyway. Moving it out of state, making excuses, or blaming the victim(s).

All the pit bull propaganda is old, tired, and prevents anyone from truly becoming educated about what a pit bull is, why it exists, and why they are still around.

If you can take away the tone of this pit bull blog (I understand why pit bull owners would not want to read this blog) you'd see there is so much information and education, your head might explode or you can ignore it and live in ignorance about the true purpose of the pit bull dog.

When I look at a pit bull (yes, I can identify one), I don't see why people would want to look at one every day. I think they are ugly, but I would not judge someone based solely on the appearance of their dog. What I find repulsive is someone who would own a breed of dog who's propensity to maul and kill is so much higher than other breeds of dogs.

When you understand genetics and the concept of working dogs and the why and how other breeds exist, maybe you can go back to your side and educate other pit bull owners on what pit bulls are supposed to be, why they maul and kill so often, and why extra care should be taken when owning breed of dog who's main purpose is to kill other dogs.

Branwyne Finch said...

Star, here in Massachusetts we have NO problem with dog overpopulation. We have few strays, as spay and neuter education worked here....most people in the Northeast have their dogs fixed, and provide veterinary care, unlike some areas of the country. We are a strict liability state for ALL dog breeds, so people CAN be held responsible when their dog bites someone...there is no "one free bite." Dog fighting is a felony here, as is "animal abandonement". Dumping a dog or cat on the street can result in felony animal cruelty charges.

Regardless of Massachusetts progressive climate for animal welfare, pit bulls and their owners are STILL a big problem. Because, Star, people who are involved with this breed are DIFFERENT than the owners of "normal" dogs. Pit bulls still flood animal shelters here in record numbers....despite the fact that numerous programs exist for low cost, or even FREE spay and neuter for pit bulls, low cost training FOR PIT BULLS, and all kinds of promotions done by groups like the MSPCA....free shots, free leashes and collars, etc. Pit bull owners receive all sorts of BREED SPECIFIC benefits, yet nothing helps. The dogs are aquired, bred, and dumped... they terrorize neighborhoods attacking people and pets.

No other breed of dog, including Rotts and GSDs, are abandoned in such large numbers, and no other breed of dog gets singled out for free services and benefits. Pit bulls are now a landrace breed bred by criminals, drug dealers, gang members, and losers looking to make a quick buck...they are bred for dog fighting, guarding illegal activities, or as thug fashion accessories. They are commonly selectively bred for aggression toward dogs and/or humans. There is no legitimate pet market for them, they seem to change hands primarily amongst people living on the margins of society, as part of an underground economy.

If you want to insist they are just like any other dog breed, then you need to explain why you can't be happy with another dog breed. If they are "just regular dogs", then you shouldn't care if they are spayed and neutered out of the pet population. You can just pick another "regualr dog" for a pet.

Star said...

I have put one of my Pit Bulls down for being aggressive and it doesn't bother me. I have kids and pets, my pets have to be safe. And yes, I don't care if a dog attacks a cat, they are nasty creatures that I simply don't care about. My dogs are in secure enclosures when they are outside so I have no worry about them attacking anything that isn't on my property. If my neighbor's cats decide to wonder onto my property and my dogs go after them, oh well. Just like if someone comes on my property who isn't welcome.

And I don't hide my dogs, the police in my area know who I am and know what pets I keep. I work with law enforcement in a small community. All of my neighbors know me and my dogs, the Pit Bull goes with me to get my 5 year old from the bus stop daily. THAT'S RIGHT! I take a Pit Bull around my neighbor's kids every day. He is also being trained to be a medical service dog so I would love to go to these places like where you live and go shopping with my "dangerous" dog.

dawn james said...

Star writes
"And yes, I don't care if a dog attacks a cat, they are nasty creatures that I simply don't care about. My dogs are in secure enclosures when they are outside so I have no worry about them attacking anything that isn't on my property. If my neighbor's cats decide to wonder onto my property and my dogs go after them, oh well. Just like if someone comes on my property who isn't welcome."


aah, there it is. the qualifiers. the exceptions to the rules. the ready made excuses when your loving never shown any signs of aggression before pibble flexes it genetics.

1. cats are nasty creatures and undeserving of consideration.

reality check: the majority think that pits are nasty creatures. that's why the majority voted to keep the pit bull ban in miami-dade. that's why when polled, the majority says they don't want to live next to a pit bull.


2. "unwelcome" people on your property are shit out of luck.

define "unwelcome". mailmen, UPS/FEDEX, your neighbor knocking on the door to borrow a tool, someone stopping for help or directions, an address mix-up, girl scouts selling cookies, a friend of your kid, a friend or relative? ALL of the above have been scapegoated as "unwelcome" by nutter freaks when their mutants act like, well mutants.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Dawn,

Exactly! She's already making excuses. If her "service pit" is killing cats or being aggressive towards humans, it makes it a horrible service dog. She's just setting her pits up for failure and already has excuses ready.

Just an "tragic accident" waiting to happen.

Star said...

Okay, how many fully trained service dogs attack things? He is being trained as any other dog would be. You are such sad people. You are worried about things that don't effect you.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Star,

Sorry star, I did a search for the past month on:

pit bull "service dog" attacked

and all I get are volumes of pit bulls ATTACKING SERVICE DOGS. A truly repulsive act, but who are we to judge when a pit bull acts on its genetics, passed down from other fighting pit bulls.

Star said...

In 154 years less then 500 people have been killed by Pit Bulls or Pit Bull Type dogs world wide. Out of hundreds of thousands of these dogs and only 500 kill... 500 deaths is a reasonable number to me. Yes, Pit Bulls do damage when they bite and attack, this is due to their size and strength and it is tragic when people have to live mutilated or a family has to bury someone. But I am not going to get bullied into putting my dogs down because you are paranoid. I'm not gonna let bible thumping, self righteous, vanillas force me to get rid of my dogs, or let any responsible dog owner get rid of their's. I don't care what the type or breed of the dog is! I won't ever own a small breed dog especially dachshunds or chihuahuas but I would never condemn somebody else who wants to own them.

Tolerance, learn some!

Branwyne Finch said...

Folks, I would not bother with "Star"...it's not worth arguing with her. She's a typical pit bull "crusader"....25 year old community college product with two kids, trying to get attention and scrape together some pennies from web hits on her Examiner and Hub pages. She doesn't appear to work with "law enforcement", I am guessing she has some menial job.

Typical sad life of someone who calls herself a "free lance writer", but didn't have the self discipline to actually pursue a BA, or even master English grammar and conventions.

As most pit bull crusaders do, she seems to have a streak of cruelty in her....she hates cats, and "doesn't care" if her dogs maul them. She also seems to enjoy the fact that one of her dogs is dangerous, as she posts on her Facebook page...

"So i may have anger issues! I just took my not-so stranger friendly dog outside with me when my dumbass neighbor decided to yell at me about dogs barking"

As I have said before, most of these pit bull advocates seem to live on the margins of society...their obsession with the breed is simply an indicator of bigger problems in their lives.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Star,

You don't address the people who've been mauled and permanently disfigured by pit bulls. That number is much higher. Not sure if you realize how hard it is for a dog to kill a human. Even a pit bull "gripping dog". You seem to treat the frequent attacks by pit bull...acceptable.

It's irrational to say anyone is "bullying" you. You're the one with the "bully breed". From your previous comments about cats, strangers, and pretty much anyone or anything that happens to wander onto your "territory", free game for your pit. How about a child playing near your street? Will you justify your pit bull mauling any child within sight...acceptable and excusable? With that said, you're the one who seems more like a bully. But ignorance is a bliss, eh?

What is a "vanillas"?

And now a self-admitted small dog breed and cat hater pit nutter...classy. What is it with you people and small breed dogs? Do they provoke your mauling machines? Do you blame small breed dogs and cats for your pit bull's instability? Are they tormenting and teasing your pit bulls?

I have large dogs and I enjoy the company of small dogs and large dogs alike. If my dogs were to kill a cat, I would be ashamed, but you justify your pit bulls killing a cat? You are okay with your pit bulls killing a cat and I am not. Can you see the difference in our mentalities?

Don't think if your pit bulls are killing cats, that it's only limited to cats. Also, nobody here considers a dog who kills cats a "service dog". You're truly a piece of work.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Star said, "And yes, I don't care if a dog attacks a cat, they are nasty creatures that I simply don't care about. My dogs are in secure enclosures when they are outside so I have no worry about them attacking anything that isn't on my property."

WHAT THE FUCK KIND OF SERVICE WILL YOUR PIT BULLS PROVIDE?

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?

Star said...

In my house the safest animal is my Pit Bull. My rats bite my kids and my Chocolate Lab mix has aggression issues. My dogs have not YET attacked a cat but I wouldn't be bothered if they did. Its called nature, I don't have cats and never will so my animals aren't socialized with them. Cats are not allowed on the property or in the house so yeah, my dogs may not be cat friendly and that is perfectly fine. My dog is socialized with people and dogs, that is all that I need for my service dog. The other dog is the family pet and she doesn't like people she doesn't know. So yeah, if someone comes on to my property who isn't welcomed she will kindly show them the way out. And she in NOT Pit Bull at all!

LOL Vanilla, plain, simple, overly paranoid, afraid of your own shadow.... Get it?

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Star said, "In my house the safest animal is my Pit Bull."

After your previous comments, I doubt any dog you own is "safe".

Star said, "My dogs have not YET attacked a cat but I wouldn't be bothered if they did. Its called nature, I don't have cats and never will so my animals aren't socialized with them."

You have not clue what a SERVICE DOG really is, unless by service dog you mean CAT ERADICATING SERVICE. Please, NEVER EVER say the words service dog, ever again. The only time you should say SERVICE DOG is when you explain why your pits attacked one.

I'm so happy I don't associate with pit bull owners.

Please, please, Star, GET EDUCATED.

Star said...

That's so cute... I do know service dogs and have trained them in the past. Just because I show no remorse over certain things doesn't mean that I must have killer dogs. And just because you think you are better then everyone else doesn't mean that you are. Instead of seeing Pit Bulls as the only dangerous type of dog why don't you acknowledge that dogs can't speak, they can't fight with words, they only have teeth. All dogs bite, all dogs can attack. Infants have been mauled by poodles and retrievers as well as by Pit Bulls and rottweilers, they have also been killed by all four breeds. If you want to ban dogs, ban all dogs. They are all dangerous.

Star said...

In one day 2,753 people were killed 11 years ago today. But you are more worried and have more empathy for people who have been attacked or bitten by dogs. No wonder the world is going to shit. Do you also believe that war is pointless, single parents can't raise well rounded kids and that homosexuality is bad?

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Star said, "But you are more worried and have more empathy for people who have been attacked or bitten by dogs."

The topic here is pit bulls but you go off in la la land about 911.

Star said, "Do you also believe that war is pointless, single parents can't raise well rounded kids and that homosexuality is bad?"

The reason for the war which proceeded 911 is because groups of people from other countries wish to harm us. As far as the gay folk, I could care less if 2 men decide to boff each other in their own bedroom. I would have a problem if they were doing it on my front lawn.

But that doesn't explain the fact that you would make a shitty service dog trainer. I've spoken with service dog people and NONE would ever say the garbage you spew so easily. From what I've gathered from your comments, you are truly a revolting person.

Star said...

Surprising that doesn't bother me. But I did notice how you didn't address infants being mauled and killed by poodles, retrievers, and other breeds, not just Pit Bulls. Of course acknowledge those attacks then you would have to admit to the fact that ALL dogs are dangerous and kill.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Star said, "Surprising that doesn't bother me."

That's called YOUR IGNORANCE.

As far as people and dogs being mauled...pit bulls are responsible for a majority of them. There is a difference between a nip, a bite, a mauling, and a killing. Because of your ignorance, you lump them together and say "all dogs can kill", which is a moronic statement.

Branwyne Finch said...

Star, this is not the forum for you. According to your Facebook page, you have FIVE kids....yet you spend copious amounts of time blogging about "pit bull discrimination". You are an irresponsible 25 year old, I am guessing you are either living at home with your parents or on public assistance of some sort. With no college degree, and that many kids, the fact that you have multiple dogs and other pets, like rats, shows you are self absorbed and immature. You should be working, getting a college degree part time, and raising your kids. Most women with five little kids barely have time to take a shower, much less spend all day on selfish hobbies.

And you are as irresponsible a pet owner as you are a parent....you failed to spay your female dog and allowed her to have puppies a few years ago. It is unlikely someone in your position can afford proper vet care for their animals, much less spend the time neccesary to train and exercise them.

I am glad you posted here, though...just to give readers of this blog a good idea as to what the typical pit bull advocate looks like...young, immature, uneducated, attention-seeking narccisists...an irresponsible pet owner and parent, attracted to owning dangerous dogs, who hates other animals (like cats).

You have nothing to offer in this discussion, so consider moving on.

Star said...

Okay, now all of that crap you are spewing is all based on your assumption that all 5 kids came from my vagina and that I am single. When actually they didn't all come from my vagina and I'm married. Now unlike you I don't go total stalker mode to push people around and offend them. Of course I'm not offended so doesn't really matter. The point is that you are an idiot to think that a type of a dog had it bred into them to kill people. There have been millions of Pit Bulls throughout the last 154 years and yet only 500 people have been killed? And maybe a few thousand disfigured? Wow, look at all the numbers not just the ones you want to look at.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Branwyne,

Thank you. I was afraid to look. I could tell for sure she is not a service dog trainer and should never come in contact with a real service dog.

I understand her ignorance much more clearly now. I do think her five children might be better off raising themselves and she is probably only qualified to feed and bathe them at best.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Star,

It does not matter whether or not your birthed five children. It's apparent you care for five children and multiple dogs. We are wondering how you even have time for sitting around spreading the typical pit bull propaganda.

The fact that pit bulls were bred to fight each other makes them a liability. This is proven by all the staggering attacks by pit bulls. Seems human or dog, it really doesn't matter to a pit bull and I'd be willing to bet it didn't matter to dog fighters either.

Star said...

And yet you are probably not allowed within 500 yards of any school or playground. I am only as ignorant as you are. My ignorance is that, I believe that murder isn't genetically in coded in dogs, your ignorance is in that you believe that if you call it a killer it must be a killer. You want people to drink the Kool-Aid and believe you when you say that my dogs are dangerous and that I'm a bad person. Well that's fine you are entitled to your own opinion and I respect that. However, I don't think someone be considered a bad parent who has stated that if one of their dogs was to attack someone and it be uncalled for or the fault of the dog, the dog would be put down no questions asked no second chance. However, you prove my dogs, threaten me, my family or my home, or intend on committing a crime, my dog will bite at minimum. And that is completely within the law! Trespassing, making threats or committing a crime on my property will ensure that you go to the hospital and nothing will come of it in court or when the police show up. Because I am, and my dogs, well within the laws.

Unlike most Pit Bull owners and hell any dog owner, I have read through the local RCW codes for dangerous dogs and dog bites and attacks. I may seem to be just a child as you have pointed out my age a few times, but I don't run straight to insulting your parenting, I have simply stated my opinions and rather then being the adults you think you are, you run right to attacking my work, my life, my family... So mature of you. Your grandchild must be so proud.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Star said, "And yet you are probably not allowed within 500 yards of any school or playground."

Where did you get that from? Just a baseless personal insult.

Star said, "I believe that murder isn't genetically in coded in dogs, your ignorance is in that you believe that if you call it a killer it must be a killer."

It's breed specific behavior that is coded into pure bred working dogs. Pit bulls were specifically bred to kill other dogs.

Knowing what I know about you now, you are far from a dog trainer of any sort and absolutely not a service dog trainer as you claimed earlier. You've implied certain credentials regarding dog training, yet your statements say the exact opposite and completely affirm that you are ignorant, you are a small dog and cat hater (possibly a cat killing advocate), and delusional.

Star said, "Well that's fine you are entitled to your own opinion and I respect that."

Again, you are delusional if you think your comment has an ounce of respect. You sure must be drunk off that pit nutter Kool-aid.

I've never claimed to respect you...In fact, I find your comments repugnant to say the least.

Again, you solidify my theory that your pits are a danger. Thought the dog fighters culled the human aggressive pit bulls, yet you're on here saying they absolutely will attack. Attack pit bulls or service dogs.

MAKE UP YOUR MIND!

I didn't point out your age and you think I am much older than you, but in reality, I'm not as old as you think I am. I just happen to have better communication skills than you. ;)

It's annoying you are trying to educate people where when it's obvious you have nothing new to offer. I think you're attempting to educate the wrong people.

You should educate yourself by reading this blog more closely. Like I said don't take it personal and just absorb the facts.

Star said...

You are right the whole pedophile comment was baseless, just like assuming I don't have a job, assuming I live with my parents, and assuming I'm on welfare of some sort. All baseless and untrue. So just like your thinking, you may not be a pedophile but I don't care I will still throw it out there. You also implied that I am a single mother who has nothing better to do. I assumed you are a predator of small children to prove a point. I have an education, I have a family, I receive a paycheck and yes I have Pit Bulls. Stating facts and actual information, hell even an opinion is fine, but to automatically assume that everyone who has a Pit Bull or Pit Bull Type dog is a horrible, heartless person is just stupid.

Everyone has their opinions and are free to share them, that's freedom of speech. But wanting to kill people's pets just because the way they look? How can you justify murdering those dogs that have never shown aggression? If you don't like them then don't get one and avoid being near them. Is it really that hard?

Branwyne Finch said...

Star, you obviously wanted us to read your blog...you posted here with a profile that linked to your blog, which then linked to your PUBLIC Facebook page. You WANT people to read about your personal life, or else you would have made your facebook page private. You claimed credentials that apparently are not true. If you want to make public claims about being a dog trainer, and tell people who have a lot more experience with dogs than you do, that they are "ignorant" and wrong, then be prepared for a little scrutiny.

Sorry, but no one here takes you seriously. You are just another young, uneducated grifter trying to make a buck "advocating" for pit bulls. You even have a "donate" button on your website.

You certainly have a lot of nasty things to say about the founder of Dogsbite.org on your blog.....and turnabout is fair play, isn't it? Why shouldn't you face the same sort of scrutiny?

Star said...

Okay, so you are verifying all of my contacts and checking my criminal background right? There is a lot on my resume you wont find on my Facebook page... Okay, that facebook page. Since you want to get into my personal information do you want to know about each tattoo and every female I've ever slept with? Not everything is online... Sorry. But hell thanks for checking it out. I always enough hearing about how much your type hates what I have to say.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Star said, "Stating facts and actual information, hell even an opinion is fine, but to automatically assume that everyone who has a Pit Bull or Pit Bull Type dog is a horrible, heartless person is just stupid."

But Star, your previous comments points to yourself as the heartless one:

Some of your quotes:

"Out of hundreds of thousands of these dogs and only 500 kill... 500 deaths is a reasonable number to me."

"If my neighbor's cats decide to wonder onto my property and my dogs go after them, oh well."

"Just like if someone comes on my property who isn't welcome." (implying a similar fate to a human by your human aggressive pit bulls and your attitude is the same for a cat or human)

"Oh well"

"Let's go after stupid, horrible, irresponsible people before we kill potentially innocent animals." (EXCEPT CATS AND SMALL DOGS, THEY ARE OKAY TO KILL?)

Who's the heartless one now Star?

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Branwyne,

I love how this bitch goes on about "innocent animals", referring to pit bulls, but when it comes to animals who wander onto her property, they are no longer innocent and her pit bull dogs needs to terminate their existence.

Last experience I've had with wandering dogs getting onto my property is when a hound dog (normal dog) miraculously appeared in my yard one morning and got to play with my dog. I suspect animal control eventually picked him up because after a few weeks, I never saw him again. There is no way in hell I'd do that with a stray pit bull (mutant).

She does have an unfounded hatred for small dogs and cats. I don't understand what a small dog or cat would have done to deserve such hatred from her and her "service dog" human aggressive pit bulls.

Star said...

A poodle attacked me while I was walking up a flight of stares when I was 3. Broke my collar bone and have scars from its teeth. I am highly allergic to cats and again the service dog Pit Bull isn't human aggressive only Lab is... Hello, learn to read and if you read my facebook like the good little stalkers that you are you would know the difference between the two dogs. Wednesday is the one that attacks :) Copper, the Pit Bull, he is just a stupid dog that runs into things.

Star said...

If you can't control your pets and keep them contained in your own yard then whatever happens is the owner of the wandering pet who is at fault. But then again a neighbor has a beautiful red-nosed Pit Bull who comes over and plays in the yard, wrestles with my kids and comes inside and plops down on my couch. Yeah, if something happened to him it wouldn't be my fault, my dogs are in my yard not wandering around aimlessly. Unlike most owners I know where my dogs are at all times.

Garnet said...

If you already have put down one pit bull for aggression and somehow ended up with an aggressive lab mix, what on Earth makes you want more pit bulls? You clearly have failed at raising dogs yet desire the more potentially dangerous ones.

Whining about people disliking pit bulls when you openly admit you wouldn't care if your dogs mauled cats to death makes you a colossal hypocrite. Is an animal no good to you unless its breed has a long history of being selected to display severe aggression in a fighting pit?

What if your pit bull mauls an 'intruder' who turns out to be a neighbourhood child? Is that okay with you?

Also, spay and/or neuter your pets! Do you have any idea how many dogs just like the ones you bred are killed off each year because people won't pony up $100 bucks to fix their pets?

Also, I have to be the one to break this to you, but reading a few websites on dogs does not make you an expert on anything.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Star,

Your as dumb as you sound. Also, why train a clumsy and stupid "service pit bull"? What kind of "service" do they provide?

You really don't know where your dogs are at all times. Dogs have been known to escape outdoor kennels. You're still dreaming.

Star said...

My dogs can't escape their kennels and both are fixed. Yes my dog is clumsy and pretty stupid but he can alert to others when there is a problem, get items such as medicines and phones, He is a medical alert service dog.

I don't read websites and believe every word as you would assume I do. I have worked with dogs, I worked for a local vet, I have worked with dog rescues and shelters. I have done quite a bit as far as actually being around several different types of dogs and working with those dogs.

Most Pit Bulls that I have worked with needed some obedience training but weren't out of control killers like you say they are. I have also been around Pit Bulls that did need to be put down due to aggression, but I've been around other breeds that have had to be put down for the same thing.

All I am trying to say is that all dogs bite, they all attack, they all can kill. And people like you refuse to acknowledge that EVERY BREED or TYPE of dog is dangerous. Just because they bite small doesn't mean they are harmless either.

Jessie_140097 said...

"All dogs bite?"

No, just because you can't seem to end up with good-tempered dogs does not mean that all dogs bite. Neither of my dogs has ever bitten anyone. They don't kill cats either and I'd be very upset if they did.

You can scream until Hell freezes over that "all dogs bite and kill" and it will not change the fact that pit bulls were selectively bred for aggression and that they kill more Americans than all other breeds combined. Trauma surgeons have noted in medical journals that pit bull attacks tend to be particularly violent and gruesome. Aside from human fatalities, pit bulls are exceptional in their brutal attacks on other animals, which can include tearing the faces off of livestock.

Pit bulls were bred for a violent, sadistic purpose. People screwed up in creating them, and people continually screw up with them to this day. It's illogical for a supposed "dog lover" to promote a breed whose purpose was (and is, for many) to destroy other dogs in a violent spectacle. I do not necessarily promote euthanizing people's pets but this breed should be spayed/neutered out of existence. It would be one thing if pit bull owners kept the carnage to themselves, but they don't.

april 29 said...

Star, please give us the benefit of your vast knowledge and provide links to information on mauling deaths by Poodles, or Yorkies, or Beagles, or Chihuahuas. Yes, these dogs may bite but a bite and a mauling are two very different things. You are attempting to normalize violent canine behavior by claiming that all dogs will kill. This is an outrageous claim. Meanwhile, in North Carolina another toddler was killed by a pit bull this evening while in the care of his grandmother. Here is the question that many people have, how do pit bull advocates wash the blood off their hands? Breed specific advocacy is responsible for failing to regulate breeding of these dogs. Estimates put the number of unwanted pit bull euthanized in American shelters EVERY YEAR at one million pits. Breed specific advocacy is responsible for promoting pit bulls as pets, people die, like the North Carolina toddler, like the pit bull owner just a few days ago. Last year 31 Americans were killed by dogs, 24 of those deaths were from pit bulls. What are we up to this year? Fourteen dead? How many is enough for you?

How do you wash the blood off your hands?

Star said...

OMG I think we may have some common ground! Yes, people who have aggressive dogs need to keep them under control and keep the "carnage to themselves" and many don't do that. If a dog is aggressive it needs to be dealt with, either cage it and train it or put it down. My one dog is aggressive inside our yard and that has nothing to do with the way she has been treated. We also have taken the time to make sure that there is no way for her to have access to the front door or the gate leading to it without being chained or leashed with someone out front with her. But yes, I will use my dog when someone yells and screams at me and one other neighbor about our dogs barking as stray dog at 7pm. I live in a retreat state. That means if that drunk asshole was to get even more pissed off and attempt to assault me, there is nothing I can do except run. But if a dog bites or attacks someone on private property while the person is committing a crime the dog is not at fault. Assault is still a crime.

Dogs do need to be spayed/neutered and that's regardless of breed. There are way too many dogs in shelters and pounds that are unwanted. And there are way too many Pit Bulls that's a given. I think if you have dog that is aggressive or there's danger you need to keep the dog away from people, children and other animals. And that's really no life for a dog. If a dog attacks it needs to be put down, if it bites it needs to be put down. It is impossible to train a dog to not bite or attack after its already done it once.

I am not saying nor will I ever say that Pit Bulls are all sweet loving dogs and that all the owners are good people. I may be hard headed when it comes to my dogs but I'm not an idiot. I don't agree with spay/neuter out of existence but there definitely needs to be way more control over the issue.

The problems that people have with Pit Bulls stem from idiots with these dogs. The worse thing is seeing a Pit Bull attack someone and then the owner plead for the life of the dog. That is just tragic. These people have no remorse for the person attacked and they think that their dog's life is more important then a person's life.

Star said...

There is no blood on my hands, my dogs have never killed anyone or anything. So I am fine with all of that.

dawn james said...


"Pit bulls were bred for a violent, sadistic purpose. People screwed up in creating them, and people continually screw up with them to this day. It's illogical for a supposed "dog lover" to promote a breed whose purpose was (and is, for many) to destroy other dogs in a violent spectacle. I do not necessarily promote euthanizing people's pets but this breed should be spayed/neutered out of existence. It would be one thing if pit bull owners kept the carnage to themselves, but they don't."

excellent comment jessie, i am in complete agreement.

snarky said...


star says "cats are nasty creatures " , later she says "learn some tolerance"

i do hate vicious dogs , but i hate their ignorant ,self-entitled owners more.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Star said, "There is no blood on my hands, my dogs have never killed anyone or anything. So I am fine with all of that."

From some of your previous comments, I can only say you are most likely encouraging and allowing your pits to attack cats and people. You're a very scary pit bull owner, probably one of the worst. You're absolutely ignorant to any type of reasoning and you're very hypocritical. Your pits will fail soon enough. Good to know I am no where near you. Your kind are easy to spot.

And yes, I'm profiling!

Miss Margo said...

Star is a self-centered liar who uses her dogs as a vehicle for self-promotion.

Somebody loves those cats. Who the fuck are you to deprive the cats of their lives and those people of their relationships? How entitled and myopic can you get? Something is wrong with Star's brain.

Nice values system, Star. I pity your children and your neighbors.

I don't pity you at all, however.

Miss Margo said...

Star is very hostile. She "takes out" and "uses" her dog on neighbors who complain about her dog's barking.

She thinks it is funny to intimidate her neighbors with her dog.

She also thinks she is entitled to ruin her neighbors' quality of life due to dog barking.

Star, you do have an anger problem. I concur.

Miss Margo said...

Rumpelstiltskin, you won the "debate."

I only wish that was more complimentary.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Miss Margo,

Thank you. For anyone that knows very little to nothing about dogs, the pit bull propaganda makes sense. You have to sift through all the pit bull propaganda and even at the surface, you have a sense that something is wrong but don't quite know what it is.

Once you able to look under the hood, you start to realize what's going on.

Pit nutter's claim about "educating" hasn't done anything to reduce the pit bull problem because it's all just propaganda. Not only is the "education" bad, the targeted people they wish to educate does nothing. I can educate my neighbor with pit bull propaganda all I want but it won't stop a loose pit bull from attacking him.

Star is a danger to everyone around her.

Star not only uses pit bulls for self-promotion, she uses them as weapons. When it's convenient for her, she calls them service dogs. She's proud of her behavior and can't see past her little world.

Star is the type of person that when the shit hits the fan, she'll be screaming discrimination and blaming the victim. We already know she's the type to harass people with her pit bulls.

AND SHE CARES FOR FIVE CHILDREN (But not all from her vagina as she pointed out so clearly)!

Makes my stomach turn.

Stinger said...

Miss Margo said: "Star is very hostile. She "takes out" and "uses" her dog on neighbors who complain about her dog's barking."

If Star were my neighbor, people would never have to worry about that dog ever menacing anyone again. The first time she used it to threaten me or anyone who lives near me, she would find herself short one dog. A 66lb. draw compound comes in handy for more than hunting.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Stinger,

If Star were your neighbor, I doubt she'd say a word to you. She'd keep her mouth shut. I know many of this type and when they know you mean business, they will either be overly friendly or avoid any confrontation. :)

Miss Margo said...

If only we could all have neighbors like you, Stinger.

TY Rumpelstiltskin!

Opalina said...

Star, pit bulls are disgusting creatures. If my 38 happens to cap one, oh well.

TreeC said...

ok, this is my third time posting. first time disappeared, second time my daughter was signed in....grrrrr!

I wanted to say thank you to miss margo for saying what I was feeling while reading this whole thing.

The world is a better place because of people who post here.

My little girl would be absolutely devastated/traumatized if her Pumpkin (her kitty, who she loves) walked across STAR's back yard.

FUCK those pit loving/people and animal hating assholes!! I'm so done with them!!!!!

TreeC said...

why every time i comment on here it doesnt post????

TreeC said...

Miss Margo, thank you!

I was thinking about my precious kitty, who my daughter loves, the whole time. I waited for someone to say something and then you did. I rarely comment here cuz you guys say every thought I have.

My daughter would be devastated/traumatized if her Pumpkin got out and happened across a yard with someone like STAR.

No thought for the people who own the cats. Just about the poor pit bulls, fuck everyone else's pet.

GRRRRRRRR >(

snack sized dog said...

Posts older than 7 days are moderated and I just got to them!

dawn james said...

thank you snack.

i bumped the moderation grace period to 30 days. we'll see how that works. i might bump it back down.

TreeC said...

I realized after I did about a billion posts that this one was moderated. OMG! So embarrassed. But I have to say that every word is true.