"Lest anyone doubt the geographical confluence of dogfighting, sheet-wearing, cross-burning, & mental retardation due to chronic inbreeding"
thanks to pet-abuse.com for compiling the data and creating the map.
thank you vintage for the fatal mauling map.
146 comments:
HOLY CRAP!!! NO WONDER WE FEEL LIKE STRANGERS IN OUR OWN STATE!!! I'M NOT SURE HOW TO RESPOND TO THIS. I NEED OTHERS WISER THAN ME TO HELP ME WRAP MY MIND AROUND THIS.
Dogfighting is and has always been rampant in the eastern U.S. Fortunately this has provided investigators the best access points for insertion. Laws have been strengthened significantly and as you can see busts are now a common occurrence with fines and jail time at an all time high. My old pal Harry Hargroves could attest to this having been popped three times now. As bad as it looks, as bad as it is, remember that the map is showing busts, and that's a good thing. The problem is disposition of dogs. They should be euthanized when collected and stored frozen for evidence as they once were. Back in the day they did not go up for adoption unless deep cover operatives outside the area were in need of cover augmentation. This really should have been enacted as law at the time. Unfortunately it was thought unnecessary because common sense would prevent people from wanting one as a pet. So much for common sense. I see this map as a positive thing, keep those busts coming.
dont have so much a problem with dog fighting as i have with the spill over into the normal society of people and their pets and animals. idiot rescue types putting these dogs out where they are a danger to others. now thats ignorance . im pretty sure there is dog fighting here where i live but ive never heard about it and the spca put out the attitude that pits make wonderfull pets . so much for them .
Snarky,
I agree, dog fighting is a disgusting "sport", but innocent victims are the ones who are attacked and killed by these types of dogs.
After looking at the map, I notice lots of Democratic states. Either dog fighting is more prevalent in those states or other states are not vigilant enough about prosecuting dog fighters.
one dogfighter woman got charged and got three years probation and 117 dollar fine . wow , thats really sending a message that dogfighting is stupid , cruel and illegal. no wonder idiots think a few chewed up seniors , kids and pets is no big deal.
"Unfortunately it was thought unnecessary because common sense would prevent people from wanting one as a pet."
Great line.
common sense sezs its no longer "common". idiots abound, who think they are experts in everything from raw food diets for mutants to back yard breeders. not to mention the cesar fans who think watching a few episodes of the dog whisperer makes them qualified to own a dangerous dog .2640tvvult
cesar's little army of dog experts. specializing , ironically in one of the few breeds that shouldnt even exist anymore ....shitbulls.
Cesar's a shitty dog trainer too.
Wisconsin is on the verge of passing legislation that abolishes the mandatory euthanization of fight bust dogs and makes it possible to adopt them out.
Its about about dogfight bust dogs, but don't mention dogs or fighting when you call your senator.
GAME ON PEOPLE, IT'S BEGINNING:
Tomorrow, and all next week (daily): Call your WI State Senator. Ask them to kindly co-sponsor Tim Carpenter's Animal Cruelty law. Do not say the words "fighting" or "dog". Just follow this script: "Hi Senator x. Will you co-sponsor Tim Carpenter's legislation regarding animal cruelty"? Then give your name and address.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-Milwaukees-Court-Case-Dogs/283645821674977?sid=0.669253942091018
Snack Sized Dog,
That's disgusting. Here's a quote from their FB page:
"Let's "hound" them. THANKS!!!!"
It's usually something along the lines of "lets pitbully them". That's the usual behavior. This time it's, lets sneak this by and not mention "dog fighting", "pit bulls", and even the naughty word "dog".
Pit bull advocacy is so sleazy.
R, I completely agree. They are hoping that their senators are asleep at the wheel and won't connect the "animal abuse bill" with the recent fatal pit bull mauling in wisconsin if they don't mention that its about pit bulls.
Sadly, they are probably right.
" I see this map as a positive thing, keep those busts coming."
there's a downside to this map that some of us have been discussing behind the blog and that is there seems to be a correlation between the increase in fight busts and an increase in attacks and a decrease in shelter euthanizations of pit bulls. i think the Dark Triad (ledy/jane/karen) are successfully using the plight of the pit fighter to play on the public's sympathy and move these dogs into homes.
i see the map differently rumplestiltskin. i see the map depicting the republican stronghold - the south.
I agree with Dawn. A map showing a high concentration of DUI arrests would indicate an issue for me, for instance. I suppose it depends upon if the % of dogfighters busted was increasing, decreasing, or remaining the same over time. I don't think that information is available, even in principle.
Dawn,
I had to look up Bible Belt to see exactly where it is. I thought it extended further into Texas and Texas would be filled with dog fighting ring busts.
Now that I see it, looks like the busts are predominantly in the Bible Belt and big cities.
Hard to believe dog fighting exists in religious communities as it's such a nefarious activity. But people have a way of justifying this type of behavior.
In SC the cock fighting breeders hide in plain sight. There's one next to my friend. He has about 70-100 of the same breed of rooster (big ones) in plain view. He says he's breeding them for farms that need a rooster. Law enforcement says, "Okie dokie." and looks the other way. At least they are well taken care of - he will let you walk around his farm. Nice friendy guy, but he's into cock fighting.
Humane orgs used to take the sensible view that dogs who have been bred and trained for fighting should be euthanized. Not anymore. You should have heard the terrible squealing from the nutter gallery that bullied most humane groups large and small into support for "rehoming" fight bust dogs. PETA is one of the minority who still hold fast to the belief that these pit fighters are not pets. That's why nutters without exception hate PETA far more than they claim to hate dog fighters.
"Hard to believe dog fighting exists in religious communities as it's such a nefarious activity. But people have a way of justifying this type of behavior."
dog fighting is huge in the middle east. our soldiers, at least the psychopathic ones, really groove on it when they are over there. you be hard pressed to find regions of the world more religious.
You with your pitter posse
I get my dogs from South
We'll take to the pit like a dogfight
Four bites, who's nuttin' now?
the crowd i know likes obama just becuz of the colour of his skin . somehow , i thot we were supposed to be past that kind of thing. if he owned a stable of pitbulls they'd probably like him even more.
I was so glad he got a PWD instead of rescuing a Shitbull like the nutters were campaigning for. The President's dog always causes somewhat of a breed surge, and that's exactly what we don't need.
The PWD people were afraid of it, but it's better than even more pits being bred - although at 900,000 a year, it hardly seems possible they could breed anymore of them.
LOL, my iPhone capitalized Shitbull all on its own. It thinks it's a breed name now.
"Law enforcement says, "Okie dokie." and looks the other way"
That's because they are probably getting a cut of the take. That's why dog fighting was tolerated for so long. Cops were dog fighters, judges were dog fighters, teachers, and that still is the case in some parts of the country. They also were getting a piece of the action to look the other way, still going on in some places.
Also the Agriculture Boards, Farm Bureaus, Departments of Agriculture. Most of them are rotten apples. They see their place as not representing the general public but to help the private profiteers, whether they be big factory farms, puppy mills, or dog fighting. You'd be shocked at the low lifes your department of agriculture people hang out with and slobber over.
A lot of the dog fighting in the South has been generational, families that for a long time have been doing this and handing it on to their spawn. Generational criminals.
At the heart of all of it is a tax free way to make money through gambling.
Though their fronts like Jere Alexanders try to cook up some kind of false cultural mythology in efforts to keep it going, the reason behind dog fighting is gambling. Lots of tax free, racketeering money.
It's another form of organized crime.
That's one half of the whole problem, the extreme right sector that the AKC people also tend to fall into.
The other side of the coin is the New York, California, East Coast Best Friends, stubby, extreme left that has entered into the pit bull market to simply control other people and get a thrill from dominating and hurting people. Also the ones that aren't dog fighters, but are dog dealers and run their own dog sale racket, or the organized crime that represents the conning trainers and behaviorists, or the veterinarians cashing in on all this, etc..
This group doesn't care about the dogs either. The dogs are just a social weapon for them, and a different form of money laundering than the fighters.
The two sides are intersecting and everyone else loses, and that includes the dogs too.
"there's a downside to this map that some of us have been discussing behind the blog and that is there seems to be a correlation between the increase in fight busts and an increase in attacks and a decrease in shelter euthanizations of pit bulls"
Overall the fight bust dogs getting rehomed is small. They should never be resold, but the numbers are small overall.
The big problem is that the breeders have multiplied, thanks in part to the leftist pit bull lobby like the Best Friends crowd promoting and advertising the dogs, and turning them into a fad among the underclass, wherever they are hiding out, in the middle class or the lower depths.
There's a thousand Shanie Dosses for every fight bust group.
The leftist pit bull lobby couldn't have exploited and promoted these dogs as a fad without the collusion of a dirty media.
You got it. I've seen an assortment of l.e. pit side in uniform. Most or the permanent dogpits were permanent because they had l.e. protection.
"I was so glad he got a PWD instead of rescuing a Shitbull like the nutters were campaigning for."
I hadn't heard of this, not surprising though. The nutters work fool (sic) time on this issue.
I love how they always say pit bulls have great temperaments IF.....[insert nutter ramblings].....
Earth to nutters, pit bulls DON'T have good temperaments if it is contingent on so many things. I like Solesky's text where he states that the good breeding of most dogs overcomes the short falls of their owners on a daily basis. This is like any well designed product with inbuilt safety mechanism.
Pit bulls are like a bomb you have to try to difuse - except it's got too many wires you gotta cut and eventually you run out of time. Pittie goes BOOM.
I didn't quite follow the part about AKC people tending to be right-wing. I'm as left-wing as it gets, a lefter-than-Democrat pro-gay-rights atheist. And I compete in AKC events nearly every weekend.
I've been going to AKC obedience, rally & agility trials and run-thrus maybe 3 days a week for the past few months, and have seen thousands of dogs at these events. The closest I've seen to a bully breed at any of these was a very well-behaved conformation-bred bull mastiff doing Excellent level agility last weekend. Not a single pit bull, AmStaff, Dogo Argentino, Cane Corso, Presa Canario, Tosa Inu, American Bulldog or Staffie have been at any of these events.
So I would definitely not link AKC competitors with a fondness for bully breeds.
the AKC's official position on the bull breeds is different from the individuals involved with the AKC.
American Pit Bull Terriers: The Truth Behind One of America's Most Popular Breeds written by "attorney" pit bull advocate Dawn Capp
Page 50
Not even the AKC, an organization that zealously combats breed-specific legislation, is immune from breed discrimination. While handling her female Amstaff in a multi-breed class, a woman in southern California was dismayed to find the judge inspecting every other dog except hers. In fact, the judge seemed downright afraid to approach the lone Pit Bull in the ring. Some AKC Amstaff enthusiasts also grumble about possible breed discrimination in the order of breed classes, since Amstaffs are almost always shown very early in the day. This practice has caused some Amstaff owners to speculate that the AKC wants the Pit Bulls off the show grounds early to avoid scaring members of the public and other handlers who are not afraid of the breed.
also from the same book
Page 26
The three registries also expect different behavior in the ring. The AKC disqualifies any dog that shows aggression in the ring. The UKC recognizes that these dogs tend to be dog aggressive, but judges will often disqualify a dog that growls or lunges at another dog int he ring. In the ADBA show ring, dog aggression is not a reason to disqualify a dog. In fact, dog-aggressive dogs tend to do well in the ADBA.
S.K.Y.
I'm with you on your recently posted thoughts. I have great respect for your skills and opinions. I happen to be on the Conservative side and I was also a bit ruffled by the political generalizations. I was Ring Steward at and AKC Obedience Trial just this weekend, did not see a single bully breed dog.
As a Farm Bureau member I found the "rotten apple" designation offensive.
S.K.Y. I can relate, both politically and philosophically. If you're not already on check out Sulia liberal channel, I think you might enjoy the conversation. Bunch of old lefties as well as the younger generations. Also check out the dogs channel while you're there. I'm impressed the Bull Mastiff was doing so well in agility, I've always thought of them as somewhat lumbering.
I show dogs at AKC events too, and I don't like bullies - except for the English ones (ugly but harmless), Frenchies, and Boston Terriers. Anything still purpose bred to kill other dogs should go extinct or bred down to a non-aggressive state.
I have seen very few pit-type dogs at shows. The last one I saw went over to his handler, who was reading, and pissed all over her legs. I was honestly astonished because show dogs tend to be better trained!
I laughed and told Craven when I got home because it was so bizarre. LOL
Good point, Dawn. I too think the major pit lobbying comes from the backyard breeder/property rights/"I can do whatever the hell I want" wing of the AKC, rather than the people you see at Westminster with poodles.
Their lobbying arm is pretty screwed up--it's all about keeping your puppy millers, BYBs, and pit breeders happy. Pedigree brand dog food was even ousted as a Westminster sponsor because they dared to show shelter dogs and promote the adoption of mutts in their ads.
I'll bet many professional dog breeders would be appalled to see the AKC's actions against animal welfare.
my readers do not realize how many people contact me that find gripping/fighting abhorrent. one such person is a breeder and member of the AKC. s/he tells me that s/he is not alone.
I suspect anyone who has seen one in action or who knows what's up, doesn't like these dogs. The rest just haven't learned yet or are so down the pit nutter hole that they'll never see the light of day again.
@orangedog -
"I suspect anyone who has seen one in action or who knows what's up, doesn't like these dogs"
Exactly. So I think it's important to capture videos of these creatures "in action" and keep them circulating on social media.
If normal people see pits doing what they were bred to do, they will be disgusted and horrified.
There's a pretty awful video just out of a pit running across a wide street to maul a little girl. Hard to watch it shake her all over. The video is nice and clear.
I also saw a vid of a blue pit snarling and huffing and hard staring at the camera man and someone in the comments had the idiocy to post about ATTS.
By "in action" do you mean in the pit or random street violence? I've never seen the latter but I think it would be terrifying beyond belief and should cause any rational person to declare them unfit for a civilized society.
@od -
I was thinking about the random attacks that happen on the street every day. Such videos are often posted, then taken down due to violent threats from the pit freaks.
And that's why it's important to save copies locally when they appear, so that they can be uploaded to places like liveleak.com when the original uploader is intimidated into removing it from youtube.
Random street violence. I think most people upon viewing a pit fight would think, "Oh well, that's not ME. I'm a good owner."
They go on living in lala land until a pit attacks them or they find Craven and the blinders come off.
I dunno, orangedog - I think any decent person would be revolted at seeing a pitbull mauling a helpless victim. Is everybody decent? maybe not, but it would certainly help educate those who, like me, had thought pit bulls just got a bad rap.
I have no idea how that posted twice.
The horror of this is breathtaking
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/03/12/girl-4-attacked-by-pit-bull-in-the-bronx/
This shows exactly how pit bulls are different. There is no miscommunication, no provocation, no territory, the pit picked the easiest target out from across an intersection. We;re being picked off on the streets. This is a public health and safety issue.
here is the video.
thank you dogsbite decatur alabama
dawn, here is what I have to tell you about the AKC, and what I have to fear about this blog and where it is headed.
There is a kind of obvious propaganda that the nutters and freaks use, and the dog fighters. Then there is a sublter kind of propaganda and pressure.
AKC breeders and competitors use the latter. They show up to act as your friend while they guide your sympathies in their direction, and weaken your position.
Each of AKC's competitors and breeders all say, "not us, we're not part of the problem"
They all frequent dog related boards, and post, and post, and profess sympathy, and are quite friendly. Their posting is a form of lobbying.
Then the nonsense starts.
"I'll bet many professional dog breeders would be appalled to see the AKC's actions against animal welfare"
That's a flat out lie. They all know. They all contribute to it. They all support it. The very few who speak out are ostracized by the others, and stop being involved with the AKC.
To claim that AKC breeders would be horrified at such lobbying is simply ridiculous. It defines what the AKC is. It's the center activity of AKC, lobbying for AKC interests. Regulation of any kind is opposed completely, and everyone even remotely affiliated with AKC knows it. Anyone who participates in AKC activities goes right along with it.
The "professional" breeders, the "show breeders" are all involved in lobbying AGAINST any kind of regulation whatsoever, and that includes regulation of gripping dogs.
They always blame the "backyard breeders," in the same way that middle class looks down upon the poor.
It's also a convenient way to deflect attention away from the "professional" AKC participants that are the heart of the problem.
Their kennel clubs lobby against any regulation, and all donate to their lobbying arms like NAIA. They all engage in the battering email and phone campaigns, but in a more behind the scenes way, not as obvious as the nutters.
Who runs NAIA? A chief board member is AKC pit bull breeder Holly Stump of Ipswich Mass, and the other AKC breeders know exactly what Holly and her friends are doing, as she twists the arms of animal control and politicians to bend to AKC will.
The AKC itself donates a lot of money to lobbyists to twist the arms of politicians to oppose BSL, and many other things. Each of the clubs also donates money and support to lobbyists like NAIA.
If you are even a remote part of the AKC or its clubs, you know exactly what the AKC is up to, and being a part of AKC is being a part of this.
They are lying to you Dawn. They want you to be pointing a finger at the underclass that they dupe too.
SKY and orangedog and april 29, you know that without puppy mill money, you would not have your shows or trials. You claim to abhor puppy mills, but you personally benefit from the money that the cruelty provides for your events.
The dog shows are paid for with puppy mill money, the AKC agitates with every person connected with the AKC to lobby against puppy mill or breeder regulation, your clubs includes lobbying against regulation as part of their everyday key activity, but these same AKC breeders claim they don't have anything to do with puppy mills and are horrified at the cruelty? They are feasting off it.
The AKC is also bathed in blood on the pit bull issue. They are a major reason why the attacks go on every day, and nothing happens. Just as the puppy mill issue sits there, and isn't dealt with
That was brutal and pit bulls seem to regularly target children. Pit bull gets triggered and someone's gonna get hurt. Too bad it wasn't the owner.
The pit bull owner left so he could avoid that $100 citation. *rolls eyes*
From what I've heard NYC Animal Control has lots of pit nutters in the ranks.
Westminster can only be held because of the puppy mill registration money that subsidizes it.
Every breeder at Westminster is participating in the puppy mill business, some of them directly (puppy mills as side businesses) or indirectly (benefiting from the puppy mill money because it subsidizes their events.)
"Every breeder at Westminster is participating in the puppy mill business"
i have zero first hand knowledge of AKC/UKC. that's not my world. but here's what i do know. the second you start to speak in absolutes, you lose. every. none. all. never. always.
Every one of these AKC people knows that, Dawn. They are trying to get you to look the other way. They want you to blame the tattoed freaks, and the gangbangers, and the underclass, while the middle class AKC does exactly the same thing, (worse because they get more pull with politicians fooled by the middle class appearance) but with a glossy finish and a ready lie.
Unless you have been involved with the breeder world, and know the lies, it is hard to understand how such friendly people could be part of the problem.
Did you wonder why so many AKC breeders post all the time and why they are contacting you, insinuating themselves into your life, telling you funny stories about their happy events and competitions? To guide you away from the truth, the real problem, and to ensure that nothing is done except talking about how awful it all is and directing you to blame the underclass, and blame the "animal rights people," and not the "professionals" like themselves who really are to blame by their complicity in an organization that exists to protect the elitist interests of its members.
There is a reason that these AKC members are contacting you Dawn. You are being mobbed, so to speak, with friendliness and smiles and they are guiding you away from one of the key reasons these attacks go on every day. The AKC. One of the biggest and longest term lobbyists against gripping dog regulation, against punishment of owners of such dogs that attack.
These people are part of the problem, dawn, not part of the solution. Their claims to be "different" from AKC official position are hollow lies.
They want your blog to be ineffectual so they can go right on with their elitist activities, unbothered by actually having to take responsibility.
They want you to blame the people they hate, just like the dog fighters want you to blame inner city people for dog fighting.
They come here to promote the AKC with their chatter about their events, and protect the AKC, with their empty denials and redirecting the conversation. They are protecting their financial interests. The "hobby" lie is a lie.
I initially thought this blog didn't take this bull, as I've seen others cave in to, but I am thinking that that has already happened.
My last GSD may have been from a BYB puppy mill. I can't say for sure because I'm still not sure what defines a puppy mill. Did I suspect the dogs were neglected or abused? No. Did the puppy's parents look healthy and behave properly? Yes. Did the paperwork look correct? Yes. Did she have a lot of dogs? Maybe. Did I inspect her home and yard? No.
What I got was a lower priced high drive GSD who behaves almost exactly like his parents. Wonderfully annoying, smart, and loyal.
Unless I saw or read a breeder was abusing, neglecting, or hoarding their dogs, I would buy from a BYB. Now that's for GSDs, other breeds...Your mileage may vary.
Suppose I'm one of those, innocent until proven guilty folks.
bentonbergny,
I can see where licensing breeders can possibly deter people from being active members and breeders in the AKC. What I don't see is the AKC funding pit bull type ventures such as pit bull breed rescues and such.
From what I've read on here, Craven Desires is focused on the pit nutter propaganda campaign and all who are involved. Nowhere have I ever seen or read that AKC sponsors pit bull propaganda. The organizations that are involved somewhat in pit bull advocacy seems to be city animal control, "rescue" groups, maybe some dog food companies, pet supply companies, but I have yet to see where the AKC has funded or endorsed such things.
Besides, the American Stafforshire Terrier is 1 out of 161 breeds in the AKC. I'm sure the AKC doesn't want restrictions on breeding, but as far as BSL, I'd think they really don't care unless the AKC is splattered with pit nutters within its ranks, like many animal control agencies.
it is not an issue of looking the other way. it is an issue of hours in the day. there just are not enough hours. i have limits. and given a choice between the under class and the upper class, i would much rather blog about the the latter. i take my scandals where i find them.
"Nowhere have I ever seen or read that AKC sponsors pit bull propaganda."
i have seen the AKC promote the pit bull propaganda. some one forwarded me an email alert from the AKC whipping up a fear frenzy about a city considering BSL. but that wasn't my point. my point was, the AKC has an official position on grippers and BSL but not all of the individual AKC members agree with it.
Dawn says, "i take my scandals where i find them."
And you demolish them! So organized and thorough. Even the photos are first class, LOL!
They couldn't hold Westminster without the puppy mill money, Dawn. Do you understand that. These idiots won't pay higher entry fees and cover the costs themselves.
They knowingly rely on puppy mill income to pay for their shows. Without it, there would be no show.
They knowingly rely on puppy mill income to prop up the whole AKC artifice, from the empty registration paper process, to the clubs, to every event.
That's an absolute.
They don't care. Their income as breeders and their personal interests trump any kind of ethical stand.
They think they are more important than everyone else.
AKC is the bastion of utter selfishness on both the animal and people level.
Did you even read what terrierman has to say? Did you understand his point- that AKC breeders and competitors lie. The whole thing is built on lies and deception. They know exactly what they are doing, but they will try to trick anyone they can into believing they are not part of the problem, or that they "aren't aware."
That's why SKY was here jabbing at breeders like terrierman that exposed AKC hypocrisy and greed and spilled the beans.
This is their BUSINESS, their incomes, where the money come from, why they have the time to sit around and post propaganda on boards.
You don't have to take my word on it. Plenty of other people have exposed the hypocrisy behind the SKYS and orangedogs and april.
april 29, you have been completely dishonest in your interaction here.
You initially showed up professing to be a victim of bully breeds.
You never mentioned that you have a connection to AKC, a financial interest in AKC dealings, but it is much worse.
You are a professional animal agriculture lobbyist through the Farm Bureau.
The Farm Bureau in every state, and nationally, is one of the most fanatical right wing, virulent, anti-animal regulation lobbies in existence.
Farm Bureas have long been under fire for massive corruption and working against public interest, and many people don't even know they exist.
Farm Bureaus are the corporate arm of animal profiteering filtered through state Departments of Agriculture.
Private lobbying money from people like Rick Berman and his wealthy corporate clients like AKC, filters through a pseudo "government" agency like Farm Burea, but Farm Bureau represents no one but the corporate profiteers, including AKC. They then use this money to influence and control politicians and government officials to bend to the will of the animal profiteers.
Farm Bureaus exists to protect the FINANCIAL interests of animal profiteers, at the expense of everyone else.
Farm Bureau opposes any regulation that might impinge on the earnings of its represented businesses, and that includes the breeder and dog fighter lobby.
Farm Bureaus are how anti BSL measures passed in the states they have.
Farm Bureaus prop up the puppy mill, "show breeder," dog fighter interests that trump public safety
The reason that attacks go on, and regulation to prevent more doesn't get passed, is in large part due to the corporate lobbying by the Farm Bureau to shoot down any legislation or rules.
The Farm Bureau, for example, was intimately involved in getting the "anti BSL" sneaky language in the Massachusetts animal control bill.
AKC breeders work with and within the Farm Bureau to keep up the ruelty and the attacks, so that the breeding interests can keep shovelling in the money.
The Farm Burea is little more than organized crime controlling government on these issues, with a slick middle class front and a pseudo professional image that hides its dirt from the general public.
The Farm Bureau is as radical as its gets with regard to business interests trumping public safety.
Farm Bureau is corporate, business animal profiteering lobbying and nothing else. It is awash in the blood of the victims of the animal profiteering lobby, via the breeders.
"Nowhere have I ever seen or read that AKC sponsors pit bull propaganda"
They use corporate lobbyists, and they use lobbying groups like NAIA or PetPac, run by AKC board members. They also insinuate members into things like the Farm Bureau. They also use people like Nathan Winograd and lobby through the No Kill veil.
They are slick, and they don't expect the average citizen to do their research.
The AKC is a front for the breeding business, financial interest hiding behind cutesy dog shows that look ok on the surface, and like corporations, they use many devious ways to veil their lobbying.
Their lobbying is not only direct through the legislative department, which has habitually opposed BSL and supported pit bull interests (because AKC breeders not only oppose all regulation, some breed pit bulls. They just have a nice sounding middle class name on them American Staffordshire Terriers)
"you lose. every. none. all. never. always."
That's what happened dawn. You had power as long as you didn't let the tricksters swarm the blog and befriend you, Dawn. As long as their sneaky tricks didn't work.
As long as you focused on the truths, and not the illusions, you were making headway into the heart of the beast.
That's something that very few people are able to do.
But in the world of canine politics (which is behind the terrible situation of escalating attacks and deaths) no one is a friend.
This is big money breeding business against everyone else, and they will stop at nothing to maintain control over the issue and control the information to protect their financial assets.
They got you by pretending to be sympathetic, playing along. They got you with smiles and pandering.
This is their business. This is what they do. Lobby in many ways to protect their financial interests and put off the truth tellers, and swarming the blogs of is one of the lobbying tactics they do.
As long as they and their lies control the blog, nothing will ever get better.
The only commenters these days are AKC shills, for the most part, with the exception of a good researcher and crap-cutter like snack sized.
Do you understand what happened?
I hope it can go back to being no crap. It might help if the blog got better exposure, and they didn't swarm the comments. I don't know.
Here's something a bit lighter:
The Sheepherder Dog: Kept a sheep ranch by himself for 2 years
In the 1870s, a sheep rancher in New Mexico died alone in his remote home. Two years later, his death was discovered by visitors. Yet his flock of sheep were doing just fine, and had actually increased in number!
His dog had been tending the flocks in his absence. The rancher had trained his dog to drive the flocks to their pasture in the morning, guard them all day, and return them to their fold at night, and he'd continued these duties when the rancher disappeared, killing some sheep as necessary for food but faithfully tending the rest.
I just thought this was interesting!
Here is an example of how the Farm Bureau (in each state and nationally) and the AKC breeders work.
They pretend to care, pretend to go along and be ethical, then pull the rug out from under you.
They are professional liars and professional lobbyists.
All these kennel clubs and exhibitors participate in this lobbying, directly or indirectly.
They do that to victims of pit bulls every day.
They are doing exactly this when it comes to laws preventing dog attacks, or punishing owners of vicious dogs and forcing responsibility, or dealing with the fighting dog breeding. This is why the attacks go on and nothing is done. LOBBYING. The AKC and Farm Bureau, and related interests, want it that way.
This is how they weaken or eliminate legislation that could reduce attacks and death.
"The North Dakota Farm Bureau has pulled a stunt at the Legislature that might come back and bite the organization in the butt. Having been among supporters of legislation that would impose felony penalties for specific definitions of animal cruelty, abuse and neglect, the Farm Bureau backed away after the bill had unanimously passed the North Dakota Senate. The reversal came during a House committee hearing on the bill, SB2211.
To the immense irritation of the bill’s sponsors and supporters, the Farm Bureau abandoned legislation it helped write and was supportive of the felony provision until the surprise testimony in committee. The bureau did a 180, and now wants proposed penalties reduced from a Class C felony (for a third offense) to a Class A misdemeanor. The bureau also wants to limit the definition of neglect to make it almost meaningless in the broader context of abuse, neglect and cruelty.
The last-minute reversal stinks like a rotting dead animal. It suggests the Farm Bureau’s agenda is to keep penalties for animal abuse and neglect as minimal as possible. It flies in the face of the bureau’s previous position on the promise of legislative action, which was one of the reasons farm organizations and other groups opposed Measure 5 on the November ballot. The measure was defeated by 65 percent of voters. The expectation – a commitment, really – was that the Legislature would craft an animal welfare bill that was broader and more palatable to farmers and ranchers, which is exactly what lawmakers did. Moreover, in the bureau’s own 2013 policy issues, members voted to support the bill as it is.
It’s a classic bait-and-switch, which has the prime sponsor of the legislation, Sen. Tim Flakoll, R-Fargo, hopping mad. He reminded the committee the bill was worked on for several years by ag groups, veterinarians and local animal shelter operators. “It’s a bill whose time has come,” he said"
If they can't get away with outright opposing regulation, they go along and present their own deceitful bills that actually enable the attacks but have a slick name to hide it, or pull a stunt like the Farm Bureau did in Dakota and present fraudulent bills then then weaken the bills to the point of uselessness.
Like AKC "show breeder" and "professional breeder" of pit bulls and AKC lobbyist Holly Stump of Ipswich Mass, who got Rep Brad Hill to cook up false "dangerous dog regulations" that ALLOWED attacks and wiped histories of dangerous dogs off the record.
It was actually a dangerous dog ENABLEMENT bill, hiding under a trickstering name designed to fool people and prtetend to care.
It just protected the breeders and those others who had interests in breeding and selling violent breeds.
All her AKC fellow breeders jumped on and pushed it.
When they realized they couldn't jam it down people's throats, they then used AKC breeder Amy Marder of Animal Rescue League in Boston and other AKC affiliates to insert the sneaky language into an animal control bill preventing BSL.
This is the kind of thing that SKY and orangedog and april in the Farm Bureau are doing when they aren't here, dawn, and they are lying to your face.
They want you to believe it's the man behind the curtain at AKC headquarters.
It's them.
This is how they spend their time and make their money, despite all their hobbyist feints.
"They couldn't hold Westminster without the puppy mill money, Dawn. Do you understand that. These idiots won't pay higher entry fees and cover the costs themselves."
no actually i don't. again, the issue is time and i've got my priorities. clearly, this issue is of importance to you. i strongly encourage you to start blogging about it.
rumpelstiltskin, you realize that you did exactly what I described?
Truth starts to leak out, change the subject.
Divert attention away from the AKC and their fighting breed lobbying issue, and instead point the finger at "rescue group" or "pet food companies" (wtf?) as being the sole problem.
Then get in a plug for opposing breeder regulation to protect your interests.
If you think you are fooling anyone, you aren't.
Dawn, you won't find out about the pit lobbying that the local kennel clubs that these people are affiliated with because they keep it hidden. They've gotten caught before in lies, so this activity is kept more submerged from view.
"no actually i don't. again, the issue is time and i've got my priorities. clearly, this issue is of importance to you. i strongly encourage you to start blogging about it"
Their financial interests are what bring them here to control the issue that you do care about, Dawn.
At what point do you realize that you've been had?
You let them control you and you let them trick you.
freya tried it in a less slick, more annoying way and you figured that out.
When they come with smiles and compliments, it is harder to figure out perhaps.
"Dawn, you won't find out about the pit lobbying that the local kennel clubs that these people are affiliated with because they keep it hidden."
i don't know if they keep hidden so much as it just requires you to join the club to gain access to the information. i assume since it's a club, you join, pay dues, attend meetings, receive newsletters and there's the information.
i'm sorry but i am working on a fatality and i can't allow myself to be distracted anymore. maybe we can pick this conversation up later.
"Their financial interests are what bring them here to control the issue that you do care about, Dawn.
At what point do you realize that you've been had?
You let them control you and you let them trick you."
????????
you lose. every. none. all. never. always."
That's what happened dawn. You had power as long as you didn't let the tricksters swarm the blog and befriend you, Dawn. As long as their sneaky tricks and deflections and excuses didn't work.
As long as you focused on the truths, and not the illusions, you were making headway into the heart of the beast.
That's something that very few people are able to do.
But in the world of canine politics (which is behind the terrible situation of escalating attacks and deaths) no one is a friend. The AKC constituency is very much an enemy, a smiling enemy.
This is big money breeding business against everyone else, and they will stop at nothing to maintain control over the issue and control the information to protect their financial assets.
They got you by pretending to be sympathetic, playing along. They got you with smiles and pandering.
This is their business. This is what they do. Lobby in many ways to protect their financial interests and put off the truth tellers, and swarming the blogs of is one of the lobbying tactics they do.
They are guiding you into writing about what they want you to write about, and hiding the truth of their involvement. They are guiding you into limiting your exposure of their guilt and into pointing the finger and blaming other guilty groups for the whole problem so that AKC gets off clean and gets to protect its financial interests.
As long as they and their lies control the blog, nothing will ever get better.
The only commenters these days are AKC shills, for the most part, with the exception of a good researcher like snack sized.
Do you understand what happened?
It might help if the blog got better exposure and they didn't dominate the comments with their deceits. I don't know. It seems to have passed beyond into the hazy world of AKC dom and I'm not sure there is any coming back. Not a point to watching it get worse.
It was great while it lasted though, and you did a lot.
Have fun with your AKC friends, dawn.
Especially the Farm Bureau lobbyist april who was so deceitful she didn't let that slip out until now.
They're chuckling behind your back as they guide you into their protected waters.
You still don't have a clue do you?
GREAT PIT BULL "ACENSION TO WESTMINSTER SHOW JUDGE" MOMENTS IN HISTORY:
Meet Dogfighter and pit breeder William Faversham.....
1888: Homeless Dogfighter:
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F50811FA3D5E13738DDDAC0894DC405B848DF1D3
1891: After William Truss is seriously mauled, Faversham's 30 Pit Maulspawning Operation is ordered out of Atlantic Highlands, NJ within 24 hours by the Mayor.
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F20911F83F5E10738DDDAD0894D0405B8185F0D3
Mentioned in the January 1917 edition of the Dog Fancier as a Westminster Dog show judge for "Bull Terriers":
http://books.google.com/books?id=MqzmAAAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA4&lpg=RA1-PA4&dq=william+faversham+bulldogs&source=bl&ots=GUA23j2GqX&sig=jY8JUHUm8CCx4w6Z98kzoZS-b8k&hl=en&ei=b5yVTZmvI8iugQeRyfjBCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&sqi=2&ved=0CBsQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=william%20faversham%20bulldogs&f=false
* Disclaimer...You Can't Make This Stuff Up!
A woman wrote an excellent blog on puppy mills some years back that really dug into the reality of why mills go on, aren't regulated, and who profits from them (such as AKC and all its affiliates.)
When the AKC breeders got a whiff of that, they swarmed her comments boards with the pretended sympathy and caring. They heaped compliments on her and flattered her, and posted every day.
Then they kept pushing at her that "regulation doesn't work" (the typical line of the animal profiteers who know it sure does) and kept on her to assert that "only education is needed," empty words which meant that nothing whatsoever would ever change, and that the AKC breeders could keep profiting from puppy mills and getting their shows and competitions and judge's and ring steward fees paid for without regulation cramping their style.
They also repeated the same lies they use here.
She succumbed. They weakened her.
The blog became an AKC protection device, and truth and reality disappeared. The cruelty went on, just like the attacks go on now.
They are doing the SAME thing with blogs that expose the pit bull issue, and attack issue.
It was great while it lasted, dawn.
vintage, they are pulling exactly the same thing today.
AKC is rotten to the core.
People who got disgusted with it left, or they fight against AKC recognizing their breed.
The rest of the army keeps it what it is.
I am not going to be posting here any more vintage, but I hope you'll keep up the deceit detection. I found your posts very important to uncovering the miles of lies that are piled onto the pit issue, from all different sectors.
The AKC breeders here are going to be laying it on thick with the lies.
Some of them, like april, blew their cover.
If they get away with it, the victims will keep piling up too.
I am not going to be posting here any more vintage, but I hope you'll keep up the deceit detection. I found your posts very important to uncovering the miles of lies that are piled onto the pit issue, from all different sectors.
The AKC breeders here are going to be laying it on thick with the lies.
Some of them, like april, blew their cover.
If they get away with it, the victims will keep piling up too.
It seems gone, but vintage, I wanted to say that the AKC is still pulling this today, as you posted about Faversham
The AKC is rotten to the core, and from the core to the ranks.
Anyone who isn't involved in this left, or they oppose AKC recognizing their breed.
They want people to believe it is management behind the curtain lobbying against public interest and safety, but they all are a part of the army that's doing it.
Take a look at the dogsbite blog, and see what the AKC breeders are doing to people in Ipswich Mass, Boston Mass, and towns everywhere across the country.
While other people work and take care of their kids and families and live their lives, AKC breeders lobby and protect their financial interests.
Swarming blog comments is one of the ways they lobby.
Headquarters can't do it alone.
They use their willing army of lobbyists locally via the kennel clubs, the exhibitor groups, the judges and ring stewards, the NAIAs, Farm Bureau inserts, and the rest, all push push pushing to protect the beast.
And then lie about it.
It is sad that it happened here.
april, posting here and not revealing that you not only are an AKC profiteer, but also a professional lobbyist for the Farm Bureau that is supporting the pit bull industry is low as it goes, but I am never surprised at what AKC drones pulls
april, not revealing that you not only are an AKC profiteer, but also a professional lobbyist for the Farm Bureau that is supporting the pit bull industry is low as it goes, but I am never surprised at what AKC drones pulls
LOL, what a weirdo. Yeah, we're all secret AKC agents trying to tip over Dawn's blog. Yet you go on to praise Freya the pit bull lover. I think maybe it's YOU we gotta watch out for. See, I think you might be a secret nutter coming here to sow lies about some of Dawn's commenters.
I can make up conspiracy theories too!
Just for the record, I don't give a shit about the AKC. If they didnt exist the clubs would just go back to sponsoring their own shows and keeping track of registrations like they did before their breeds were recognized.
Maybe the reason he's so anti-AKC and points fingers at someone like me, who hasn't given them money in years, is that he's a busted puppy miller.
See? Conspiracy.
And since he said he won't be back, if he comes and responds, he's a big Ol' liar. LOL
P.S. Can we get back to talking about that terrible video now that we've been lead off on this bizarre tangent?
(I'm sure this will be proof to Benton that I am a secret AKC agent.)
Has anyone heard the excuse for the pit attacking that child yet? Wearing red? On the sidewalk? Looked suspicious? Protecting his owner two blocks down? Just wondering what the trigger is this time so I'll know what not to do.
I'm with Orangedog. BentonbergNY's posts are characterized by paranoia and needless hostility.
You're not the old poster "CandorMD," are you...? Because you seem just alike.
I don't care if you are. Maybe you could just cool it with the unsubstantiated accusations.
Regarding the video, it seems that the dog saw a dog sized child the same way he sees another dog...as an opponent. I think children often trigger the fight response in these dogs because of their size, and perhaps the way they move differently from an adult. I think this is very common with fighting breeds, a perversion of prey drive.
This is why the insistence that dog aggression in pit bulls poses no risk to humans is ridiculous. Dogs who have the uncontrollable urge to kill other dogs are NEVER safe to have around people; in particular, children. Since no one in the bully breed world considers dog aggression a temperament fault, and insist these dogs belong in pet homes, I can only conclude that the pro-bully breed movement poses a great risk to child health and safety.
That was no mistake, accident, provocation or play, that was a full on scratch to an opponent.
What s/he's basically suggesting is akin to accusing each and every local councilman in every town in a given state to be knowledgeable of and conspiratorially engaged with federal and state level government corruption.
Some councilmen just want to get the potholes filled. Some people want to participate positive activities with pet dogs.
The AKC lobbies hard and with big money against any and all kinds of regulation regarding dogs including BSL and measures aimed at curbing dogfighting. And they get a lot of money from registering those puppy mill litters. But that in no way means that everyone who participates in AKC sponsored events is in on it.
And as for the farm bureaus, in areas where virtually 100% of the economy is based on farming, such as parts of oh say North Dakota, yes, it does happen that the foxes end up guarding the hen house. But that is, as they say, life down on the farm. You try to get your neighbors to do the right thing and vote restrictions on themselves, and sometimes they come through, and sometimes they fail.
And then there's the simple fact that I believe every regular commenter on this blog has had some kind of horrific encounter with a pit bull and/or is for some kind of BSL.
That video BLOWS ME AWAY. It was like a lion after a baby gazelle. We are in the food chain now.
Hmmm, before we do that, I'd like to say a word in Breton's defence. The AKC (and its European counterparts) at THE ones who get 'American Staffordshire (Bull) Terrier' excepted from pit bull bans when they can. They know perfectly well that this makes such laws unenforceable. They are very happy that everyone who wants a legal pit bull will have to come to them and their members.
The KCs are responsible for registering and introducing new pit bull type breeds and their derivatives. Oooo, the bull mastiff has nothing to do with the pit bull... [just one example]
They put up a pretty strong lobby to scare other 'my breed' people with the 'your breed next' slogan.
I think Breton is also right...not that all AKC participants are lying to Dawn to as to avert her, but that they are lying to themselves about what any participation in the KCs, their breeding, their events means. I think for many it's because being part of it is so much fun. The pit bull problem isn't the only thing the KCs do that most members decide not to see -- witness the BBC documentary about other things the KCs do to dogs.
Phrases like 'If they didn't exist the clubs would just go back to sponsoring their own shows...' are an awful lot like the reasoning 'if you ban our pitties, we'll just make some other breed aggressive'. When I read something like that, I usually bite my tongue, remembering that we're allies on this main point and need each other for that.
I don't agree with Breton that it's on you Dawn to tackle the KCs on top of everything else you do (I'd die without you), or that there's some conspiracy to pervert your thinking -- even less that there's an icicle's chance in hell you would succumb.
Just saying I understand her (his?) anger about what some sometimes post. I'm sorry she (he?) got so mad at you for not getting exactly as mad with her. Woulda been better to challenge issues without beating you up.
For the record: I'm sure I'm in denial about some things about myself, my choices and behavior too. I hope once I got over the emotions of having some blind spot pointed out, I'd be glad someone did that.
*are THE ones
P.S. I hope on one leaves even if they do KC stuff, and I also hope Breton comes back when s/he cools down.
*no one
Typing fingers not working so great today.
Sputnik, my breed has it's own shows that it pays for. That's what I meant about having nothing to do with the AKC should they fold. So no, I guess I don't see how a registry folding is like still breeding a dangerous dog once banned.
I know exactly what the AKC is about: money.
They will take USDA approved (puppy mill in disguise) money because they want registrations. That where the majority of their money comes from. It's not a big secret although some might claim it to be. I'm against many of the laws they oppose, and for some others - in particular the ones where HSUS tries to give themselves police powers to seize any animal they like. I'm not sure how this makes me an AKC agent?
AKC is strange because they will fight HSUS and PETA, but cozy up to them when it comes to pit bulls.
I haven't heard anyone here say any of the things that Benton was ranting about last night.
Well if BentonbergNY is CandorMD - just caught the naming pattern Margo! EXCELLENT- then s/he's sure to be back. If s/he could just tone down the evil master mind conspiracies, that would be great. Go ahead, challenge people to rethink their affiliations with certain groups, but don't try and tell regular commenters they're knowing secret agents in a vast evil conspiracy aimed at infiltrating and destroying Craven Desires. And s/he might want to work on being able to distinguish the inherent weaknesses of self-governance and, again, evil master mind conspiracies.
I simply can't read any more of this conspiracy theory crap with responding.
Benton, as Candormd, you exited this blog previously after straying into territory that pushed very close to anti-antisemitism and were called on it. Now you have come up with this one
" bentonbergny said...
april, not revealing that you not only are an AKC profiteer, but also a professional lobbyist for the Farm Bureau that is supporting the pit bull industry is low as it goes, but I am never surprised at what AKC drones pulls"
I am going to "reveal" a lot more than is any of your business. Please know that I am not an AKC member or drone. I maintain a membership in a local dog training club. That's it.
I have never bred a single litter of puppies, kittens, never bred a single horse. Every animal on the place is neutered, spayed or gelded.
I support Obedience Trials because I think training dogs is critically important. I want people to have the opportunity to compete with their dogs so I contribute a full day of my time twice a year to make the showcasing of trained dogs happen.
I also Ring Master horse shows for the same purpose and have done so for the last 30 years. These are ALL charity events and I'm out there in the ring all day as a volunteer.
"Professional lobbyist" for the Farm Bureau? I am a member of the organization and serve on the local Equine Advisory Committee. We are active with 4H programs, education, rescue of neglected farm animals, raise money for our local Police Mounted Patrol unit, a local historic farm, and the 4H.
You have attacked me personally for volunteering in my community. What is the matter with you?
Switch to decaf.
High-five April. Oops, I mean secret handshake. ;)
I hope he comes back too. I want to see the proof about the lone anti-puppy mill blog hounded to the dark side by AKC agents. A quick Google search will bring up hundreds of anti-puppy mill sites and thousands of forum posts so which one was it? One of the biggest is Pedigree Dogs Exposed and it keeps trucking along. Infiltrating them seems a bit like tilting at windmills. If only we were so lucky and anti-pit blogs were a dime a dozen and Craven wasn't the minority. The only people I see trying to shut this blog down and "educating" are pit bull lovers who scream about freedom while trying to muzzle others.
Even more shocking than the video is this report from the Gothamist....
"As for the pit bull, NBC New York reports that the owner, who lives nearby, was issued a summons for letting the dog off-leash. The dog will not be taken away or put down."
The child was with her grandmother, who was physically unable to fight the dog off....if it hadn't been for the good samaritans, the child would likely be dead. Also, had this been summer time, and the little girl was not wearing long pants and a heavy winter coat, the injuries would have been far worse.
So I guess it is completely legal to assault and attempt to kill a child in New York, as long as you use a dog?
It looks that way Branwyne. The law does not protect the innocent.
Why can't they take the dog???!! Insanity reigns.
I've been thinking for awhile that you could openly murder someone by using a pit, and all you would receive is a $100 fine. This is why these freaks continue to have these dogs, because "punish the deed" is an empty saying with nothing behind it. If these assholes were actually punished financially, pit ownership would drop drastically. Oh, they would still whine and mewl, but in the end they would get rid of their dogs instead of facing financial ruin. I'd love to see them out on the street with nothing but a cardboard box to live in.
This little girl faces a lifetime of nerve damage and pain, her family has to face bankruptcy to pay the bills (unless they are lucky to have good healthcare) and the dog owner walks off with a tiny fine. It's not right, and the smug fuckers know it.
bentonbergny said...
"rumpelstiltskin, you realize that you did exactly what I described?
Truth starts to leak out, change the subject."
Guess I'm just an AKC drone. *rolls eyes*
Any normal human being who saw their dog do that to a child would drive the dog straight to the vet and have it PTS. The fact that the dog targeted the child from a distance, then attacked without any provocation, with the intent to kill that child, would have scared the shit out of any normal person, regardless of the breed of dog.
The owner of that dog is a really hard core criminal, or some sort of sociopath, or both. I will go so far as to say that many men with criminal records would not want a dog that wants to kill small children; child murderers and pedophiles, after all, don't fare well in prison.
There are some social mores that we need to stand firm on, in order to remain civilized....one being that adults have a moral obligation to protect children. We abolished child labor laws, and provide a free, if imperfect, public education for all children in this country. You cannot sell your 12 year old daughter into marriage, you cannot beat and starve your 10 year old son.
Yet the animal welfare lobbyists have created a place where you can essentially use a dog to maim or kill a child, with little more than a small fine as punishment. We have organizations in this country protesting the treatment of women and girls abroad...genital mutilation, sex slavery, forced child marriage....yet how many children are mutilated by dangerous dogs every day in this country? In many cultures, we would be seen as barbarians for allowing a large aggressive animal in our homes, to live amongst out babies.
Dangerous dogs have become a significant public health threat to children, and one that is continuing to grow. While Mayor Bloomberg whines about the dangers of a giant cup of soda, he ignores the suffering of children like the little girl in the video.
bentonbergny wrote:
"SKY and orangedog and april 29, you know that without puppy mill money, you would not have your shows or trials. The dog shows are paid for with puppy mill money."
******
Gosh, and here I thought my shows were paid for by the $18,000 or so in entry fees (for a 3-day agility trial) along with the fact that all labor other than the show superintendent is provided by volunteers like myself. And that trials are held by local agility clubs to earn money for their building rental and equipment, and that AKC only gets a small recording fee of something like $0.50 or $1.00 per dog.
Yes, bentonbergny, the show-giving club gives a small portion of the proceeds to the AKC. The AKC does not give ANY money to the show-giving club.
What a surprise to hear your silly claim that all these agility trials are paid for by the cruelty inflicted on puppies in puppy mills rather than by entry fees!
And that's very amusing, blindly accusing me of being a breeder, just because I happen to compete in dog sports.
I've shown dogs, including dogs from shelters, for 36 years, but I've never bred any animals, of any kind, at any point in my life--not so much as a guppy.
That said, I totally support good breeders--they are saints. I buy from breeders that produce an average of 3 puppies a year, of which 100% go into show/performance homes. Every single dog is accounted for.
And it's a bit hard to wrap my head around your conspiracy theory ramblings about my support of AKC puppy mill policies when I don't belong to a single breed club, AKC-affiliated club, or training center at a local OR national level. I don't even subscribe to any dog-related magazines.
So, ignoring your specious argument about puppy mill money supporting agility trials, how, exactly, am I supporting puppy mills via AKC?
"Any normal human being who saw their dog do that to a child would drive the dog straight to the vet and have it PTS."
That behavior is outrageous, abnormal and unacceptable.
I hate when nutters get offended when people liken pits to lions and tigers. THAT looked like a lion attacking a baby gazelle. EXACTLY like that. It is sickening.
If their arguments were valid, its all about the owner having control of the animal and the dangerousness of the animal itself was no matter, then that would be an argument to keep lions and tigers in residential neighborhoods.
i don't think everything that bentonbergny has to say is insane and conspiratory. i agree with a lot of it. the problem is this person is trying turn everything in extreme black and white and absolutes. and everyone who is not lock step with their position is an enemy combatant. not every pit bull is an IED any more than it is properly raised nanny dog. not every poodle and collie breeder supports the nutter right to own any dog.
in the big picture, AKC breeders and their purebred dogs are ALSO BEING SAVAGED BY PIT BULLS. hence the reason the AKC breeder contacted me.
having one AKC breeder (that i know of) contact me, share information with me, does not put me in cahoots with the AKC. dog fighters contact me, rescue freaks contact me, doctors, vet techs, ACOs, lawyers and cops contact me.
people i don't know forward me all kinds of stuff. at least 3 people have forwarded me email alerts from the AKC rallying the troops against a BSL proposal. at least one of them is a member of the AKC and at least one of them is a mole.
you can't assume that every member of an organization agrees with every single tenet officially laid out by the org. take PETA for example, they don't believe in keeping pets. that's their official party line but i've known dozens maybe 100 PETA members and only one didn't have a dog or a cat or a bird.
i won't defend the AKC. but they are also not in my sights, at least not at the moment. that could change.
"So I guess it is completely legal to assault and attempt to kill a child in New York, as long as you use a dog? "
that is correct.
"Any normal human being who saw their dog do that to a child would drive the dog straight to the vet and have it PTS."
emphasis here really is on NORMAL people. the people who own grippers are about as NORMAL as their "dogs".
"If these assholes were actually punished financially, pit ownership would drop drastically."
financially and criminally. actually i think the criminal charges would go further as many pit bull owners are judgement proof. we really need depraved indifference laws to cover the crimes of grippers. sure, all dogs bite and in the next 100 years IF another "pomeranian" kills an infant, those parents can legitimately claim shock and surprise but not parents who own dogs bred for fighting/baiting/guarding.
Things have changed a lot. I remember when I was in college, my best friend's parents lived in an upper-class neighborhood on the shore of a lake. They had an extremely sweet Golden Retriever, that they (stupidly) allowed to roam around the neighborhood at will. I knew the dog for several years, and would never have considered him aggressive. He was a typical calm, well-mannered and gentle representative of his breed.
One day, he nipped a 12-year old boy that walked through the dog's backyard on his way to the lake. By nipped, I mean that the dog did not break the skin at all.
When my friend's parents heard about this later in the day, they immediately drove the dog to the vet and had him euthanized. At the time, I thought this was a severe over-reaction (still do). I think the appropriate reaction would have been to fence the yard. The dog was obviously able to inhibit his bite, and this was his only nip in five or more years of life.
That said, now things have swung the other way. Now even serious maulings aren't considered grounds for euthanasia.
I'd like to see a little more of the spirit of that Golden's overly cautious owners in the pit bull owners of today...
that is an over the top reaction. very sad.
speaking of bite inhibition, i knew a great dane that put a couple of stitches in a boy's cheek. the boy's head would fit in the dog's mouth.
This is how the bad guys win. They splinter those groups who oppose them. We all have opinions and differences and that is something they can exploit. The one overarching commonality here is the desire to see the damage done by gripping breeds end. My way is the elimination of breeds/types of dog. It doesn't have to be everybody's choice. Registries, breed clubs, etc have issues as well as good points. Let's not allow our differences to cloud the issues or cause ill will among those who support a common goal. There aren't enough of us to spare even one voice.
I never thought I would say this but-
I would rather read Freyas posts then this Benton person. I just could not sift through most of their posts.
I do not believe for a moment that all commercial breeders are bad.
"Puppy mill" is used in such an inflammatory manner by the AR crowd, and of course you never see photos or videos from commercial breeders with nice facilities.
The Westminster comment is so far out there I am speechless.
As for that video of that child being attacked-
I could not believe it as I watched it. That dog was at some distance and yet it had locked and loaded on that child. It was as determined as it could be as it raced across the street to make its attack. It hit that child with such velocity it spun her around and the dogs legs actually came off the ground.
How can anyone justify that this kind of dog needs to exist at all?
No doubt the nutters will have some excuse as to why that dog did that and somehow that walking on a public street is "provoking" the nanny dog.
Can you imagine being hit by that thing? Just bumping into a person can hurt. This is a 50 lb bullet hurling itself at a child that probably weighs less than it does. This video needs to be shown far and wide. I'm speechless that nothing will be done to this dog and owner. It's like since it didnt kill her, it won't be seized. I'm sure it will never be running loose again. Ha.
Oh yeah, and that mutant's tail is wagging up a storm as he chews up that little kid. Nanny happy!
Hey Dawn, is any of this (minus the capable climbers bit) true:
Did you know, that 4 dogs used for search and rescue at ground zero were pit bulls? Bet you didn't they are one of the hardest working dogs and most capable climbers around. It is actually against the law in NY to ban a breed of dog, so they aren't going anywhere.
Well, I haven't heard this excuse before. It's uh... our fault for propagating fear of pit bulls. Not Animal Planet, or Best Friends, Ledy, AC pit nutters, etc... US. When we gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes back, or something. ;)
Snowbird the fruitbat says:
People that want pit bulls banned actually propagate fear, which makes pit bulls more attractive to bad people that we wouldn't want owning dogs. Most people that voice their negative opinions about pit bulls don't understand that they are really just making pit bulls more popular. The pit bull movement is too strong to stop at this point, especially since many good people own them or know someone that does, and they aren't going to allow bans to happen too often anymore. Small towns are the only places you will see new bans enacted.
They aren't going anywhere. Wish what you will."
So I guess we will just have to live with mangled and killed citizens because the pit pushers are too strong now. "The Movement" as it is called. I think this is wishful thinking on the nutter's part. It's been a banner year for vicious pits and it's only partway through March.
"This is how the bad guys win. They splinter those groups who oppose them."
the bad guys also win by banding together, especially when it comes to animal exploitation. the cattlemen support the fur industry, the dog breeders support the hog doggers, the vivisectors support zoos and circuses.
and i think that is what bentonbergny is talking about but BB fails to acknowledge that it is not an absolute, although if rick berman had his way, it would be an absolute. with a wink and a nod, they look other way at the others' behavior. a lot of them will support others exploitation of animals just so they can continue their own exploitation of animals uninterrupted but that doesn't mean they all do.
"I would rather read Freyas posts then this Benton person. I just could not sift through most of their posts."
maybe that explains that overwhelming feeling of déjà vu i had last night. i thought i was just tired or it was possibly due to the stress of having to deal with another DEAD CHILD.
maybe we should refer to freya as scylla and bentonbergny as charybdis.
"Can you imagine being hit by that thing?"
yes, i can. a couple of years ago, my own dog plowed into my knee. and he wasn't going that fast but still i had to wear a knee brace for a few months.
@orangedog -
"Did you know, that 4 dogs used for search and rescue at ground zero were pit bulls?"
um, no. The complete list of 9/11 dogs includes zero pit bulls. The mix of dogs was overwhelmingly shepherds and retrievers, with a few dobies and even a rottie.
Good lord, could you imagine the horror of a victim discovered by a pit bull only to have it do the thing it was bred for and maul the victim to death?
You know, like the guy who had raised pit bulls for years, treated them like his babies, and then when the car jack collapsed and the car trapped him, his pit bulls triggered and mauled him to death.
@orangedog -
Here are the facts about the 9/11 dogs -
9/11 Dogs
I would encourage you to ask for verification of the pit bull story. I've seen pics of a nutter posing with a mutant in front of a 9/11 memorial. Sorry, doesn't mean a thing except that the nutter wants to mislead others.
nice graph! how about i create a little widget and pu tit on the side bard?
That would be awesome Dawn -
The closest thing to a a(p)bt I found on 9/11 SAR dog breeds was a boxer.
I don't know what the pit nutters were hoping to prove with the 9/11 bit, anyway. The first dogs that were called were live find dogs that found nobody (nobody was alive to find).
After that, they called in solely cadaver dogs to search for tiny bits of tissue or stains of blood in the rubble, so they could DNA-test and make a victim list. Cadaver dogs don't have to contact anybody but their handlers, so there is not any particular requirement for the dog to be "friendly," other than the minimum to pass the SAR tests.
As those of us here know, pits and other bullies are much more likely to be RESPONSIBLE for human (or other animal) tissue and blood scattered across the ground than they are likely to be sniffing it out as part of a SAR team...
IMHO, German Shepherds are popular in American SAR work for historical reasons, rather than their abilities. That's because the first couple of national SAR organizations in the U.S. were started by German Shepherd fanciers, and they forbid any other breed from participating. The "father of tracking" and of SAR, William Syrotuck, went so far as to claim that German Shepherds had some kind of elite noses that had exponentially more scent receptors than any other breed.
(In fact, the AKC "Champion Tracker" title, which requires extended tracking on concrete pedestrian thoroughfares,has been obtained by <300 dogs, which include Papillons, Border Collies, Chesapeake Bay Retrievers, Viszlas, Poodles, etc.)
Anyway, the GSD-only rule is still in effect today for those original SAR organizations, though other breeds have always been allowed in the newer SAR groups. Still, many recent books about SAR still inaccurately claim that "only GSDs are allowed to participate in Search in Rescue." Therefore, many people that might have preferred other breeds have been pressured to get a GSD.
In organizations that allow any breed, including some American and most international SAR groups, German Shepherds are a minority. The two most popular breeds on an international basis are Border Collies and Belgian Malinois.
Still no bullies, though... :-)
While I'm on the SAR topic, I thought I'd mention that SAR tests totally favor GSD-sized dogs, even though there are just as many situations where a small dog would be better at the job. I was training my Papillon for the IRO (international SAR) test, and he could do everything except climb a ladder with rungs spaced every 18 inches. My point was that in real life, I could easily carry my 8 lb. dog up the ladder.
He also had to be able to jump over a 2' jump and do other "big dog" things, but those were no problem--only the ladder was physically impossible.
IRO and every other SAR testing body ONLY has tests that a GSD or similarly-sized breed can physically pass, such as clearing a 2' jump or crawling through a 2' high tunnel. But what about when small breeds have an advantage, such as in rubble searching? Why doesn't the test insist that the dog can fit through an 8" hole in the rubble, which is more likely than a 2' hole? (Answer: because then the GSDs would fail and the Papillons would pass!)
Why does the test require the dog to walk across a generous 12" wide board instead of a 4" board? (Answer: Ditto). However, there are plenty of cases where it might be necessary for a dog to walk a 4" cliff ledge to carry a rope to a climber. And think how much easier it would be to rappel to that ledge carrying an 8 lb. Papillon instead of a 90 lb. GSD! :-)
Conversely, for wilderness searches where the dog has to cover a lot of ground, I'd leave the Pap at home and take the GSD any day!
But I just wanted to grumble because I think there should be two certification tracks for SAR dogs, one for bigger dogs and another test that exploits the unique abilities of small SAR dogs.
My over-jumping SAR-wannabe Papillon at an agility trial last weekend. :-)
In the 9/11 SAR/CRD list I saw a dachshund was mentioned as one of the working dogs. No Paps though, sorry. No bulldogs either, no surprise.
how about i create a little widget and pu tit on the side bard?
this is my aging overwhelmed brain trying to multitask. lol.
that is a surprise. bulldogs make outstanding cadaver dogs.
Well good at creating cadavers yes, I don't know how interested they are in finding them as a rule. In James Crenshaw's book there was a bit about a dog of his breeding being used as a recovery dog in GA., especially for water recovery, but that's the only one I've heard of. I also have never seen mention of that dog anywhere else and GA.has quite a few drowning deaths every year.
freya
i been checkin out some good stuff on pit boss . shorty's confession among other wholesome storys . shorty and his service dog that doesnt stereotype midgets . quess size really doesnt matter when u r a pitbull. being an abused , bullied , neglected underdog breed must help a poor sevice dog understand how a little person feels . lol
I figured there were zero pits at ground zero because it came from a nutter and so far everything "good" has been highly exaggerated or a flat out lie. Neat graph though. I had never heard of a Hovawart dog. Looks like a Rott/Golden.
I've never seen a Hovawart in the U.S., but ran into several of them while walking on the streets of Paris and Frankfurt during a trip there a couple of years ago. I had to stop and ask what the first one was, as I'd only seen photos in rare breed books. The ones I met were HUGE males, around 90 lb. They do look a lot like a Rottie/Golden mix.
I dont like the idea of you putting "tit" on the side...that offends me. Maybe just the widget. (im sorry, im a sucker for a laugh).
Ha! But that would bring more people to this site for sure: Pits & Tits
pits, tits and midget poledancing
on animalplanet
for the discerning pitloving intelligensia
freya?
OT, but I just wanted to say: Sharon, your dogs are extremely good looking!
I have no personal experience with your breeds, but I saw a Papillon at Tompskins Square dog park the other day. Charming animal--as pretty as a piece of wedding cake. I loved the huge ears. Reminded me of a kit fox.
I applied for positions as a dog walker. :) I miss having a dog so much that I figure this will allow me to get my dog fix plus earn a little pocket change.
I was very clear on my
applications: will not interact with bully breeds! Sorry, but I've read too many CD and Dogsbite survivor stories...the testimony of an animal-shelter employee who was mauled for an hour by a pit bull and had to have her arms amputated still haunts my brain. Hopefully my prejudice will not disqualify me from employment. Pit Bulls are not common in my area, but I still see a few each day.
LOL Orangedog and Snarky!!!!
oh snarky! when i have the time, i will try to create a photo collage for this. the midget poledancer might be a tough one to pull off.
pits, tits and midget poledancing on animalplanet
for the discerning pitloving intelligensia
S.K.Y. love the picture of your Papillon. They are super dogs. The best agility dog in our area is a Papillon named "Masher", hes been on the world team.
I have little dogs, and I tell people that if you treat them like they have legs and brains you will have a happy, well adjusted little dog.
its all in how they r raised , all dog bite , scalp and deglove . my chihuahua is pure rescue but its my pit u have to watch out for . i raised my chihuahua from 3 days old and shes nevr disembowelled anything but the pit is far worse than any ratdog . its really is all down to the scummy owner to take responsibility when a lap dog kills someone.
Well, this 2nd map is all-telling. I guess this is what I thought all along but there are so many attacks occurring now in Canada and the western U.S. But there's nothing like seeing these maps for me. This is an "EDUCATE YOURSELF" moment. But I'm still not getting the racism and inbreeding part altogether. If you look at the Cockfighting map busts, it is very concentrated in Southern California. Is that because of the Hispanics? But I know that rooster fighting was and is big in the eastern U.S. also, among white people.
The inbreeding has and always will be I guess a subject of jokes about the south. But I can only find 1 relative that married a 1st cousin in all my genealogy work and I've traced ancestors all the way up to New Hampshire in the 1600's that came from Scotland. My husband's grandmother was from a big MORGAN family that trickled down from PA in the 1700's and some settled in N. Alabama. His mother's brother, whose middle name was Morgan, married his 1st cousin. It was during WWII and there was not many men around. They had 2 sons and neither were retarded. I've read about cases of incest from all over where daughters have their father's children and they are normal. I've been reading and getting to know HARVE MORGAN on facebook. He is one energetic busy man and chances are he is a distant cousin to my husband through the Morgans. Genealogy will teach you that we all are distant cousins for the most part. So I'm still trying to "EDUCATE MYSELF" BECAUSE IT IS VERY IMPORTANT. My world was very small in the 50's and 60's growing up and the nightly news lasted all of 15 minutes. We were always outside playing and didn't know about racism and the clan and inbreeding. I saw George Wallace's daughter on 60-minutes last week, she is about my age, and she has apologized and walks over the bridge at Selma every year. She says she was very sheltered from all that was going on around her father.
But we all knew about the clan and it frightened children but my family actually didn't know anyone that was a clan member. In the 60's I can remember a cross being burned in a neighbor's yard that was living an openly gay lifestyle.
The evening news was only 15 minutes long so it was hard to sort information out especially for women and children.
So I've read that blacks keeping and raising pit bulls began in prison and more black men were in prison in the south because of cultural and financial inequalities. Is this one racial aspect?
LOL. @ snarky & orangedog. I can see Dawn is busy because she didn't even TRY to look for midget pole dancers. They're not hard at all to find them...
Text
another one
Well the first one was supposed to say the pixie twins. sheesh
thanks snack
now im reel interested
my scummy little mill town surely has a pole dancing establishment somewhere .
Decatur AL: I'm sure the wisecracks about Southerners get old. For what it's worth, as a transplanted Westerner in NYC, I am considered a barbarian and potential closet white supremacist. New Yorkers can be aggressively parochial.
Anyway, my home state has a significant Latino (most Mexican) community, and yes, they practice cockfighting.
Excellent correlation map. My guess is a rescue map would mirror both.
Dogsbite Decatur AL. I didn't see this post when I posted. You're very right that everyone is inbred if they go back far enough. I did my family history too and found a man who married a first cousin on his mother's side with the exact same name as his mother. In New York in the 1700s.
A couple branches of my family were settlers on frontiers and those records are sketchy, but I know that those settlements they lived in consisted of 2 or 3 families and after a generation, everyone had to be first cousins.
A quarter of my family is from the south, and that family always joked about southern family trees not having very many branches, but that wasn't the case with my direct family that I could find.
The earliest dogfighting was all over the eastern seaboard and though it has strong associations with the south it seems to have gone part and parcel with new immigrant populations, a lot of early fighting dogs were imported from england and ireland with sailors bringing them.
And dog fighting went with poor immigrants to frontier towns. There are early calls for banning bulldogs in Nevada and California (gold and silver rush settlements). Very early Chicago settlement was known for dogfighting in Irish and Italian neighborhoods.
Those maps closely resemble population distribution maps so, just looking at them and not studying populations in detail is seems that what the maps indicate is that, there might be a disproportionate number of dog fight busts in the pink areas of the south, but generally more people=more dogfigthing=more deaths by pit bulls.
http://www.mapofusa.net/us-population-density-map.ht
sorry to ruffle southern feathers. it was just a snarky comment that accompanied the map. i thought it was it funny and so i shared it with the map.
Southern Inbred jokes are funny, Dawn, and I'm the first to laugh at most of them. I love a good joke making fun of ourselves. It's really not about anybody getting ruffled. To me, it's about why these Monster Dogs are allowed to be bred and nuisance and attack people and other animals. I'm sure there are probably multiple reasons why. And according to those maps, it has happened more in the eastern and southern U.S.
Just like dog fighting, slavery and racism was not invented in the southern U.S. Neither were big plantations and cousins marrying cousins, incest, or masters raping slaves. But it did find its way here and festered and grew for multiple reasons. My life began as the south was coming out on the other end of the era - the end of the south's slavery era contains the cultural phenomenon known as "THE HELP". I didn't realize it until I read the book and saw the movie called "THE HELP" that my whole life was shaped by it. My family was not part of the upper society families that could afford "HELP". It was an eye opener to finally understand this extension of slavery and racism. THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE...SOMETIMES!!!
I just want to know the facts as best can be learned. I don't know if there is a correlation between these psychopathic pit bull owners and too many recessive or dominate genes causing abnormalites from humans producing other humans too close in the gene pool.(wow, i'm not sure i said that right) BUT, I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW !!!
Our court case is not over. It was appealed to the appelate court in Montgomery and was dismissed. Now we have learned that it has been appealed to the Supreme Court of Alabama. ALL THIS OVER 4 DOGS THAT WERE ALLOWED TO MAKE NOISES 24 HOURS A DAY AND THREATEN US - THINGS THAT EVEN HUMAN BEINGS WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO DO. To me it's about learning and growing and seeking as much of the truth as I can to help us through. You and Colleen give us the truth the very best that you can. Our lives have been made miserable because of our Pit Bull situation. But our case is minor compared to what others are enduring. It looks like little Anthony Ivey's GGGGrandma ROSEMARY ARMSTRONG, 78,IN MACON GA.IRONING AND WASHING FOR LAWYER,MR.GAY, might be an indication that the phenomenon "THE HELP' still exists.
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