Saturday, June 21, 2014

genetics


border collie, 14 weeks



border collie, 12 weeks



american pit bull terrier puppies
video


video


video




english pointer, 11 weeks



pointer



english setter, 9 weeks





any questions?

46 comments:

Anonymous said...

It's quite moving to watch those instincts come alive in the little ones... well, other than in the case of the pit bull puppies of course, bent on mutual destruction. What normal person could see that sort of viciousness and not be taken aback??

The ridiculous blank slate theory of dog breeds and their character really just needs to die.

snarky said...


if all dogs are the same , why even have breeds that are purpose bred for working traits ... hunting , guarding , tracking , rescue , ect . to choose a purpose bred dog and then deny that its any different makes no sense at all. almost any breed has its distinct constellation of traits , behaviors and characteristics . to say that pitbulls are awesome dogs that are so loving , loyal and protective but really are just like any other dog begs the question: why then have a dog that is so hated by so many .

Anonymous said...

EXACTLY!

Packhorse said...

My dog was retrieving stuffed toys at 8 weeks old.

Sputnik said...

According to the nutters, the pit bull *was* purpose-bred -- to be a babysitter and a pre-industrialization wet-wipe. You know, lick all that coal dust and other dust off the British miners' and American slave drivers' faces.

I'm thinking that when pit bulls maul and kill, it's because everything is too dust-free nowadays, but the pit bull still needs to satisfy that genetic drive to clean something up (blood and carcasses will do).

Am I doing a good imitation of nutter logic here?

orangedog said...

Hey guys, who's ready to fashion some fire extinguisher bandoliers with me??
I thought this was an interesting post from FB so I thought I'd repost:

Merritt Clifton ANIMAL PEOPLE recommends fire extinguishers as the safest and most humane tools for interrupting a dog attack, since using a fire extinguisher does not require closely approaching the dog, it does not have to be aimed very accurately to have a deterrent effect, it does not quickly run out of ammunition, it does not produce an erratic ricochet, and is non-lethal. But if the fire extinguisher is exhausted while the dog attack continues, the empty cylinder can be used as a shield, a club, or a bite stick, as appropriate.
Besides the deterrent effect of the fire extinguisher’s contents, which tend to make animals quickly short of breath without lastingly harming them, most animals, including most dogs, retreat from the snake-like hiss of a discharging fire extinguisher.
There should be a fire extinguisher in every kitchen, near every fireplace, in every car, near the driver in any bus, truck, or taxi, and prominently and visibly located in every public building or place of business.
Fire extinguishers have about a 70% success rate in stopping pit bull attacks. Guns have only about an 80% success rate at stopping the dog with the first shot fired.
Among the other popular non-lethal devices used to stop dog attacks, pepper spray and Mace must be relatively accurately directed, and are typically carried in small containers meant for use at close range. Pepper spray and Mace have about a 40% success rate in stopping pit bull attacks.
Tasers are often useless against fur-covered animals. Tranquilizer darts must be placed very accurately to be effective, difficult to achieve when a dog or other animal is in attack mode, and then the tranquilizer can take several minutes to work, during which time the animal can do significant damage.

orangedog said...

Part 2:

Once a person is bitten, what can be done depends entirely on the severity of the bite. I learned from the late Guy Hodge of the Humane Society of the U.S. many years ago to push against a bite instead of pulling away. This forces most dogs to open their mouths, and enables the victim to avoid the sort of ripping injuries that result from pulling away from a dog's serrated teeth. While Hodge's advice has served me well in many situations, it may not be universally applicable to all dog bites.
In fatal and disfiguring attacks, quite often the first bite disables the victim to some extent, and pulls the victim down. The victim may then not be able to push against the bite, or hunch up and protect his/her face, or do any of the other things that are conventionally advised.
Most dogs bite defensively, and will bite, let go, and retreat, but pit bulls and other "bully" breeds bite offensively, and will not let go. Instead, they bite and shake. This behavior produces the degloving injuries that are so frequent in pit bull & Rottweiler attacks, in which skin and muscle are stripped from the bone. The only effective defense against that attack mode is to prevent the attack from occurring in the first place.
One way to do this is to use any accessible object as a "bite stick," to thrust into the dog's mouth. While the dog is biting the "bite stick," the dog will not be biting anything else.
I often hear of people trying to fend off a dog attack by swinging an object such as a baseball bat or a golf club at the dog. Unless one has major league bat speed and power, this usually will not work. Typically the dog dodges the attempted blow, the person is off balance, and the dog then severely injures the person.
The correct way to use a bat or golf club is as a bite stick, held in such a manner as to keep the dog at maximum distance from oneself.
Incidentally, it is also futile to try to pound on a dog's head to make the dog let go of someone else. Most animals respond to a blow to the head by clenching their teeth, which is why prize fighters wear mouthpieces, & among pit bulls this tendency is even more pronounced. To make a pit bull let go of something, it is necessary to pry the dog's jaws apart with a bite stick -- and to do this safely, the person doing the prying should be behind the dog, with face out of reach of a quick snap.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Strapping a fire extinguisher to all pit bulls should be mandatory. That way if they attack, it's right there ready to use.

Miss Margo said...

I have a question, although it is only tangentially relevant to the videos...

Sorry if it's a stupid question...

When the border collie (or any other herding dog)herds the sheep, how does it know where to herd them...?

Is the point to keep the sheep in a relatively tight flock and prevent stragglers from wandering off?

Or is it to put the sheep into a pen or corral somewhere?

I know what gun dogs are for, but not herding dogs...

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Miss Margo.

It is my understanding that Border Collies tend to gather livestock and put them in an area they desire. People train them to put them in an area designated by the handler. They are very smart and if you don't figure it out for them, they'll figure it out for themselves. They will do this to children also if not discouraged.

It's a modified version of the hunting instinct.

Anonymous said...

I want a try at pit nutterism.

How poorly treated were those border collies and pointers to get them to do what they were naturally bred to do? Were they beaten, kept in a backyard chained up, not socialized properly, starved, used as bait dogs, crate and rotated, mistreated in any way by their owners, or were they provoked by everything around them? I mean, doesn't it take a certain sick individual to make those dogs point and herd?

orangedog said...

I think they strap laser pointers to their backs which forces them to point - sometimes at a whiteboard. It's really cruel to make them point at org charts and this is a known trigger.

dawn james said...

no. they sleep on tempurpedic mattresses, get weekly massages, listen to beethoven, and eat peking duck.

tropical storms said...

I've found that for me the best me

Packhorse said...

Pointers point
Collies herd
Beagles bay
And Setters stay
Greyhounds run
Whippets too
and the Newfoundland rescues

Bloodhounds track
and Huskies pull
and Retrievers fetch, fetch, fetch
But there’s one thing
That no one knows

What does the pit do?
Fighting-ing-ing-ing-inging!
Fighting-ing-ing-ing-inging!
Fighting-ing-ing-ing-inging!
What the pit do?
Growl-growl-growl-growlgrowlgrowl!
Growl-growl-growl-growlgrowlgrowl!
Growl-growl-growl-growlgrowlgrowl!
What the pit do?
Grab n’, Grab n’, Grab n’ hold!
Grab n’, Grab n’, Grab n’ hold!
Grab n’, Grab n’, Grab n’ hold!
What the pit do?
Pull that leg o-o-off!
Pull that leg o-o-off!
Pull that leg o-o-off!
What does the pit do?

Staring eyes
Bricklike jaws
Chasing cats
And breaking skulls
You’ve escaped
Up the hill
Suddenly you’re standing still
Your teeth are red
So beautiful
Like an angel in disguise
But if you meet
a friendly horse
Will you mutilate, of co-o--o-o-o-urse? co-o--o-o-o-urse? co-o--o-o-o-urse?
How will you injure that ho-o-o-o-rse? ho-o-o-o-orse? ho-o-o-o-orse?

What does the pit do?
Bite n’ bite n’ bite n’ growl!
Bite n’ bite n’ bite n’ growl!
Bite n’ bite n’ bite n’ growl!
What the pit do?
Attack-tacka-tacka-tacka now!
Attack-tacka-tacka-tacka now!
Attack-tacka-tacka-tacka now!
What the pit do?
Bite until he bleeds!
Bite until he bleeds!
Bite until he bleeds!
What the pit do?
I’ll b-i-i-ite yo-o-o—ou!
I’ll f-i-i-ight yo-o-o—ou!
What does the pit do?

The secret of the pit
Ancient mystery
Somewhere deep in the woods
I know you’re chained there
What is your job?
Will we ever know?
Will always be a mystery
What do you do?
I’m your rescue angel
Chained up in the woods
What is your job?
Will we ever know?
I want to
I want to
I want to know!

Anonymous said...

Packhorse, I am glad I know what song you're using. This made me laugh so hard! Well done!

Anonymous said...

LOL great job Packhorse :)

For those who don't get the reference, search "what does the fox say" on youtube

Anonymous said...

Miss Margo-
Border Collies aren't just born with a herding instinct, they've been selected for generations for what is known as "bidability" meaning they WANT to do their handler's bidding.

They're bloody amazing creatures who spend their days trying to figure out how to help you, if you're smart enough to realize it.

It took me less than one day to teach my first bc pup to sit, lay down and roll over, and that was at nine weeks, and I hadn't owned a pup in 35 years before that.

Here's a fine demonstration of biddable dogs herding: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpjP3mxv21s

Border Collies taught me what was possible with truly purpose bred dogs, the good side.

S.K.Y. said...

As a Border Collie owner who has AKC Advanced titles and also placed at the Ranch level in USBCHA, I'm happy to answer the Border Collie question. :-)

The primary instinct for BCs is to fetch sheep to a human. This is what any good working BC puppy will attempt to do at some point during his first few minutes with sheep. Imagine that the sheep are in the middle of a clock face, and handler and dog are at 6 o'clock. The dog's natural instinct is to make a wide circle around the sheep to get to 12 o'clock, then to walk the sheep to the handler.

To do this, note that the BC cannot take the shortest path to the sheep, as that would result in chasing the sheep AWAY from the handler. So BCs have the instinct to make a wide circle and sneak up behind, putting them in a position where they can push the sheep towards the handler.

Young puppies like these are really too young to be working--these are just "let's see what we have!" videos. Actual training usually starts around 10-14 months of age. In the videos, the pups can't circle around and get behind the sheep because they aren't fast enough yet--they're too little and slow. So they end up splitting up the sheep. However, you can see their instinct to regroup the sheep and start moving them towards the handler, even if only for a brief moment.

Early training is all based on sending the dog around the clock face to the right or left and having them bring the sheep to the handler. The handler keeps moving and walking around the arena so the puppy has to "wear" right and left to keep balanced at the 12 vs. 6 o'clock positions.

Once the pup gets the concept of fetching the sheep, you can introduce "driving," which is taking the sheep to some point away from the handler. This is much harder for a dog to do (due to the infinite directions available in which to go), and he has to know precision left/right/stop/walk/get back commands to drive correctly.

If you watch a sheep herding competition, different parts involve fetching or driving the sheep through obstacles, as well as putting the sheep in a pen and (at the highest level) splitting a flock into two groups based on collars that the sheep are wearing.

Packhorse said...

Thanks Anon folks!

S.K.Y. said...

I totally missed Packhorses excellent rewrite of "What Does the Fox Say?" I just now played the video on YouTube with the volume down, then sang along with Packhorse's lyrics. BRILLIANT!

If somebody like College Humor could record this, it would be a viral hit and could help the cause. It's much more clever than the current viral cover of "No Woman, No Drive."

Packhorse, why not make the proposal?

Miss Margo said...

Thank you, Anon, and thank you, SKY. This is really fascinating to me and I liked learning about it.

Packhorse said...

SKY, you're making me blush! :*)

Anonymous said...

I think the pointer's behavior is amazing; I'm not used to seeing a dog stand still! (Mine particularly!)

Anonymous said...

Brilliant, Packhorse! The phrasing and parody are razor sharp! Go as far as you can with it!

SF

Demiandogs said...

I`m not here to deny fighting instinct in Pits but I have a video you might like to see. Password: meydan
http://smotri.com/video/view/?id=v1351700c4b7
Yeah those are Akita puppies going at it,not those awful Pitties. Ha!

dawn james said...

interesting videos. what did you think of the dogo vs pit, akita vs pit and cao vs pit? did you like them? was it good for you?

dawn james said...

excellent revision packhorse. i don't know how i missed that.

Rhea Luna said...

These videos are really cool. Unfortunately and I may be alone in this opinion but I have seen too many families who live in the suburbs get border collie dogs as family pets and because they know nothing about the breed except that they are smart they end up with a problem theu want to pawn off.
I think bc dogs are better off with farm owners where their instincts can be met.

My dad has a labxpointer and first it likes to point at the prey then it likes to retrieve absolutely no training went into that instinct because my dads not a game hunter. He wanted the dog for a family pet. Poor mixed up mutt lol.

Dick "Big time" Johnson said...

Jury's out on the "Akitas" - What strikes me right away is that the fur is just too short. They do seem to be at least partly spitz dog, possibly Akita - but crossed with what, pit bull perhaps?

Anonymous said...

I can't watch the akita video and I don't know an akita puppy from an akita mix anyway... BUT, here's the thing...

Akita owners do not try to say their dogs are 'nanny dogs'. They admit they are fighting dogs AND that not everyone can do well with an akita as they are a lot of responsibility. When an akita gets out of hand and seriously injures someone, they don't all gather round to call everyone 'haters'.

An akita mauled someone in Arizona right around that awful Mickey mauled little Kevin. It did make the news or I wouldn't know about it. The akita was pts just as Mickey's owner TRIED to have Mickey pts. But, no ridiculous advocacy group tried to save the akita whereas we all know what happened with stupid Mickey.

I know Mickey is an American Bulldog, not an APBT. But, there is some shared heritage between these breeds. So, Mickey is a pit bull type of dog even if he is not a real pit bull.

The babysitter who had Mickey chained in her yard (on a very long chain, btw) said Mickey shook Kevin "trying to hurt". I guess she was hoping that would shut up these people who thought Mickey was protecting his territory or his fictional bone. Little did she know there is nothing that would shut some people up... not even if Mickey gained the power of speech and made a full confession.

I have never seen ANY akita fanciers acting like this. If pit bull (and similar dogs) fanciers would keep control of their dogs and not call anyone wanting to help victims 'haters' that would help everyone.

Also, notice how the shelters aren't over populated by akitas? This is because everyone doesn't get two and start breeding them like mad. There are way too many people doing this with pits. There are too many of them by a frightening amount so they are getting pushed onto people who can't properly take care of them.

I saw a pit bull owner explain, "They aren't a beginner dog." Most dog owners are beginner owners. They need easy dogs that, if they get loose, can't cause much damage. As well as dogs that are pretty content to stay behind a fence rather than digging or climbing or jumping or chewing their way out like pit bulls 'somehow' do every single day.

Packhorse said...

I recently visited the website of a farm animal sanctuary which I visited about a decade ago.

I am sorry to say that this sanctuary has gone off the deep end into pit nutterism. They now have several pits on the property. On their website I saw multiple photographs of the grippers interacting with farm animals including BABY animals.

This is completely unconscionable. This is no longer a sanctuary I wish to support.

Anonymous said...

Packhorse, that is so sad. There are so many animals that need protecting more than pit bulls. There are so many animals that need protecting FROM pit bulls...

What is it about these mutants that make people want to give them a baby of some sort to drape over? The things are unpredictable. But, I guess the cute baby animals don't matter as long as piiiiibble is happy (law of the nutterverse).

Packhorse said...

I agree. And the fact that these animals have been rescued, primarily from neglect cases, only to be put in danger once again is ridiculous.

And I'm imagining if one of the bruisers is triggered, donors and supporters won't ever hear what happened to the animal victim. It will be "she passed away suddenly...unexplained illness..."

When I visited this sanctuary a decade ago there were a couple of small breed mutts trotting around...definitely no pits...it just shows how quickly nutterism has infiltrated many different levels of animal rescue.

Anonymous said...

I just saw a nutter exclaim, "these are wild animals!"

I mean, I know pit bull act like wild animals, but I thought they were technically speaking a domesticated dog.

I mean.. wild animals?

Anonymous said...

Packhorse, I blame Michael Vick's worthless self for this.

Jenny R. said...

Dog fighting existed before Vick was even born; his culpability in the pitbull problem is not singular.

This could be nothing but... I'd be hesitant to go to the commenters video link. If we've learned anything from nutters calling Susan a drug dealer, signing Jeff up for a gay fetish site, rallying to get Richard and others fired, vandalizing grave sites... Is that there is nothing these sadists won't do to harm truthsayers.

I would not put it past them to try to find a means of hacking our pc's and personal devices.... There's something about the fact that the sight requires a password key that just doesn't sit right with me, for some reason. It could very well be nothing, but be on alert, refresh your IP, and run a virus scan afterwards.

Anonymous said...

What the nutters want you to know is, in the Border Collie population, the man biters were not culled. Please be extremely cautious around Border Collies, Border Collie mixes, and Collies in general.

And, did you know that there is no such thing as a Collie? Collie is not a breed because no one can identify them. Not only that, but they try and lump a whole bunch of different types of dogs into the Collie "breed."

Border Collies were, according to folklore, originally called "Granny Dogs." When Granny came down with a case of Alzheimers and would wander away from home, Border Collies would herd Granny back where she belongs; sometimes with disastrous results. The Border Collie could lead Granny right into traffic, or to the wrong house. It is not recommended that Border Collies be used as "Granny Dogs."

Did you know that lots of famous people have owned Border Collies? Paris Hilton, Zsa Zsa Gabor, and Helen Keller to name a few.

Lastly, if you don't want your Border Collies herding, keep this in mind; it's all in how you raise them. You can totally erase instinct. I taught my Border Collie to be a water rescue dog. She hated the water. Did not like to stick her face in the water, or get wet, or swim even. She'd run away from the hose when I tried to get her wet. But since I raised her, I made her into a remarkable water dog that liked to herd fish. True story.

craven said...

herding fish.... :-)

craven said...

i went to the website when this person first posted the link. it's russian and there are quite a few dog fighting videos there.

and HERE

always follow the cyrillic alphabet.

Jake said...

I've seen Russian videos advertising Akitas and there was something about their appearance that made me wonder if they hadn't added some pit bull to the mix - not a good idea IMHO

Anonymous said...

Packhorse, send an anon note to peta about this fake sanctuary. They are one of the few groups investigating these types of places. They may be letting the dogs prey on the animals.

Anonymous said...

Pit bull breeders are primarily white and consider themselves middle class. Most of the pit bull pimpers and promoters long before Vick are white female dog breeders, especially the AKC variety, who were working hand in hand with people they knew fought dogs and still are. They'd form offshoot groups to try to distance the AKC brand from the pit pimping but this has been going on for a long time and how it got this bad.

Anonymous said...

I know Michael Vick did not invent dog fights or pit bulls, but his dogs got extreme publicity.

Ka D said...

Vick's PIT BULLS got extreme publicity. The beagles got adopted without one million dollar insurance policies and fanfare.

Anonymous said...

yes, this is true. but, due to his pit bulls we hear about bait dogs and dog torture and rescue and 'rehab' and blah blah blah. there are so many things that resulted from his case that didn't result (to the same extent, to the same publicity) prior.