Tuesday, May 19, 2015

craven email: Confessions of a Wolfdog Owner

After reading every word on Craven Desires I feel compelled to share my own menacing dog story.

I grew up in a very rural town in Alaska. When I was about 13 years old, I wanted nothing more in the world than a wolfdog of my very own. This was in the mid-80s, a time before internet, when access to the world's knowledge was limited to what could be found at your local library. The only library to be found in my town was at the elementary school. I did love to read, though, so my head was filled with the heroes of Lad a Dog (in which Lad's wolfy behavior is frequently emphasized), Kavik the Wolfdog, White Fang, Journey of Natty Gann and so forth. Not to mention the similar wild or feral 'friends' found in stories like Gentle Ben or Plague Dogs.

By the time my parents gave in to my incessant whining I thought I knew just about everything there was to know about wolves, dogs and wolfdogs. My wolfdog and I would form a legendary bond and together we would tame the wilds of Alaska, just like Jack London. And so, for a mere $180, I bought myself a wild beast.

Lulu, as she came to be known, was purchased from a local fellow who bred wolfdogs to supplement his income. He had somehow acquired two full-blood wolves from a zoo in Minnesota years before; the rest of his dogs were various breeds of huskies. Lulu was the offspring of the male wolf and a MacKenzie River husky. The huskies all lived on chains, the wolves were in kennels that wouldn't have looked out of place in a zoo. I still remember those wolves, pacing, pacing, pacing, those golden eyes windows into foreign souls that I knew intuitively, even at age 13, I could never truly understand.

But Lulu wasn't like that. She was a curious, blue-eyed little puppy that only wanted to play and explore the world. With the luxury of time that only kids have, I spent every day working and playing with her. In most respects she was great---very obedient, could do every trick in the book and then some, and so on and so forth.

In other ways she was not so great, especially as she got older. By the time she was 6 months old she was extremely neurotic and fearful of anything strange, especially unfamiliar people. She was also impossible to contain; she could climb like a cat and dig like a badger. Her neck ruff was so thick she could easily slip any collar, unless it was tight enough to choke her. As free-ranging dogs weren't unusual around there, I just let her roam.

We had our first physical fight before she was a year old. I bent down to pick up her empty food dish and with a quick snarl she bit my face. It was not a bad bite and it was very fast, but it did leave a scar on the bridge of my nose. Thanks to all my wolfdog book-learnin' I was of the belief that this was a normal attempt to challenge my dominance. I made up some story about running into a tree so my parents wouldn't take Lulu away. We had countless minor 'disputes' like that over the following years.

Not long after the face bite, Lulu killed all my gerbils. Not long after that, she killed one of our chickens. I hid the corpse and began working with her daily to teach her to not attack our chickens, ducks, rabbits, etc. It actually seemed to work, to my knowledge she never attacked our animals again.

Other peoples' animals though... that was a totally different story. I found her outside playing with dead cats a few times; didn't think too much of that because that's what dogs do, right? Certainly wasn't the first time a husky-type dog killed a neighborhood cat, and I didn't much like cats anyway. I always hid the bodies though, fearing the response of adults.

Then one day I found her in the yard playing with a dead dog. This was something I knew would definitely not be okay with anyone. It was a little Jack Russel-looking dog, so ripped to shreds its limbs were barely connected to its body. I buried that dog deep in the woods.

She also regularly brought home wild animals; rabbits, squirrels, birds, etc. One day she had a dead ferret; I still have no explanation for that. Did she snatch out of someone's house?

Bit by bit complaints started coming in from other neighbors about Lulu threatening or attacking their animals in their own yards. I defended Lulu fiercely, lying about her being with me or whatever to try to take blame off her. My parents built a 6-foot high chain link fence to try to contain her, but she climbed it with ease and her murder sprees continued, while I continued to do my best to hide the evidence. I had quite the little pet cemetery going in the woods behind my house.

This wasn't a daily thing; it happened maybe once or twice a month sometimes, other times several months would go by with no problems. She was great when she was with me, would barely even acknowledge other animals were present. She would always come when called, no matter what was going on, and heeled like a champion if asked. The trouble was when she was on her own---and between school, sleep and, as I got older, social activities, that came to be the majority of the time.

One day I came home from school to find Lulu on the porch, muzzle covered in blood. Something snapped in me and I was filled with rage; after all my hopes and dreams and work this stupid dog just would not stop. I was tired of burying dead critters in the woods. I grabbed her roughly by the scruff of the neck and tried to drag her inside the house. She twisted her head and slashed my arm from elbow to wrist. So much blood... I was scared shitless and had my parents been home it probably would have been a completely different story. But they weren't home, the bleeding stopped, and I justified Lulu's actions in my head. I wore long sleeve shirts for a few weeks and yet again hid the damage from my parents.

When she bit my best friend on the thigh as he tried to stop her from following us inside his house, I convinced him to hide the injury too.

Finally Lulu was caught 'red handed' killing a dog tied in its owner's fenced yard. The owners put Lulu in their garage until animal control came; my parents said the only way that dog was getting out of the pound was if I found another home for her. So I did... some fellow who lived 40 miles out of town and raised sled dogs agreed to take her. I have no clue what happened to her after that.

Through all this I felt Lulu was the victim; she was just doing what a wild, spirited wolf does. I felt nothing but contempt for the pathetic little pussy dogs she killed. Her threats and attacks on me were even seen positively; she saw me as an equal, not a mean, domineering 'master'. The only fear involved was that someone would take my poor misunderstood wolf away and contain her, where her soul would surely die of captivity. I long resented that tattle-tell neighbor and my parents for making me get rid of her. It was many years before I started to see the whole thing in a different light.

I was a stupid, selfish kid, but I was also a victim to some extent of the whole romancing dangerous dogs thing. I devoured those wolfdog stories and took every word to heart, and at no point did anyone bother to show me a different kind of reality. Standing up for your dog by any means necessary was just what you do, everyone knows that... just like everyone knows you stand by your best (human) friend even if he kills someone. That's the code, at least at 13.

I see so much of my former attitude reflected in pit bull advocates, and quite frankly it scares me more than their dogs. It is so staggeringly immature and unrealistic, but I remember how very real that world was for me. Anyone outside of it was the crazy one, and, being crazy, they had no value and warranted no consideration. They were pussies; I was the one embracing life and adventure and nature red in tooth and claw. The difference is I outgrew it; these people in their 40s and 50s advocating friendly neighborhood pit bulls and other naturally savage dogs have some serious developmental issues going on.

And that is my story. Do with it what you will.

--A former wolfdog fanatic

71 comments:

Your Quiet Neighbor said...

Key phrase in this story: I outgrew it.

This phrase sums up who we're dealing with. They're adults (or children) who are immature, and, in many cases, emotionally disturbed.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

there is a word for them: KIDULTS.

scorched earth said...

Substitute the name Boody for LuLu in this story and it is Ledys childhood. Ledy did not outgrow it, she went to law school so she could bully the peaceful public.

Thank you Former Wolf Dog Fanatic, an interesting look inside the thought patterns of unreasonable advocacy. You turned out well.

Jake said...

Excellent insights. One could only hope that the pit bull fanatics could attain the same level of self awareness.

Ka D said...

I appreciate the honesty. Personally, I don't think it should be legal to breed a dog with a wolf or any domesticated animal with a wild one. In this case it makes the wolf dumber and the dog more aggressive and unpredictable.

The arrogance and irresponsibility of the pit crowd is amazing. I've been told off my many a barely legal kid who contains their well behaved pittie with electric fence and who doesn't need no damn break stick.

fojap said...

I read many of those same books as a child and wanted a wolfdog, too. I was also addicted to nature shows and at some point wanted just about every wild creature that I heard of someone successfully keeping as a pet. I think it was lucky that my parents were sensible yet fairly indulgent animal lovers. They always kindly, yet firmly, told me that some animals were not sensible to have as pets, but I had just about every type of typical pet a kid could want. At one point, we had a poodle, but my sister was allergic, so I became a cat person.

I think you point out a few key things. One is the way the denial crept in in stages. It reminds me of how women wind up in an abusive relationship.

It frustrates me that adults continue to project their own romantic fantasies onto their dogs. I remember once when I was thinking of getting a dog and mentioning different breeds to my boyfriend. When I said "poodle," he flipped. Apparently, "real" mean don't like poodles.

It's a shame that other people's pets had to die, but that's why we consider teenagers as being less responsible than adults even though they are physically capable of taking care of themselves.

A lot of us have illusions about animals as kids. Most of us grow out of it. It's not kind to the animals either. There are a lot of animals we don't keep as pets because we can't really care for them properly. Also, living in an apartment, I wouldn't have certain types of dogs because it wouldn't be fair to the dog. That's the reason I remained a "cat person." People need to be realistic about their animal's needs and capabilities.

On a practical level, I think the focus shouldn't be on breeds. That helps feed into the sense the pitbull owners have that their dog is misunderstood. We need to focus on the responsibility of the owners. There should be no lax treatment for the first bite incident. People who can't control the dogs they own should be held accountable for the dog's behavior. They should also be required to have insurance to cover any damage or medical bills as a result of the dog's behavior. Reading some of the stories people have posted, it seems that we don't always enforce our laws regarding dog ownership.

Anonymous said...

This is why people need to demand zero tolerance of loose dogs and tough dangerous dog laws.

If the community leaders had been doing their job, this insanity would have ended many lives before it finally did.

Anonymous said...

"It is so staggeringly immature and unrealistic, but I remember how very real that world was for me. Anyone outside of it was the crazy one, and, being crazy, they had no value and warranted no consideration."

THEY HAD NO VALUE AND WARRANTED NO CONSIDERATION

That is exactly how I feel when I raise my voice against nutters. Exactly why do I have no value and warrant no consideration? I'm not the one going around threatening people and pets with my dangerous animals. I have the right to walk freely without having to arm myself against an unprovoked attack.

BAM

Anonymous said...

Speaking of wolfdogs and keeping wild animals as pets. This guy in Anacortes WA is a huge issue. Predators of the Heart. His animals get out all of the time. He doesn't feed the animals species appropriate food and brings them into my vets office half starved and in horrible shape. He has also falsified documents on the wolfdogs to avoid the required paperwork to sell them in other states.
Skagit County finally passed some laws to shut him down, but the local news station decided doing REAL research into him and his operation were not needed. Let's run a story full of lies to pull at people's heart strings. Totally disgusting.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/New-law-means-dozens-of-exotic-animals-may-be-killed-304348591.html

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

public safety is not the only issue. it is despicable to keep wild animals captive.

Miss Margo said...

"I felt nothing but contempt for the pathetic little pussy dogs she killed."

Well, I'm glad that you 'grew out' of this mindset, author, but I still have to ask: REALLY?????

I know teenagers are inherently sociopathic, a bit. It's how their brains are developed at that age. Yeah, they do stupid impulsive immature things.

But there is something fucking wrong with you to find LuLu's murderous behavior tolerable, even then. You know that people loved those pets she killed, right? What gives you the right? And did your parents have something wrong with their brains?

Fuck you, dude. I think you're awful. And this mea culpa gets you a big fat el zilcho in my book.

XIP said...

Craven,

Alexandra asserts in this post that one cannot breed the pit bull to be docile, and if done, that they would loose the look that the pit bull has. I've also seen implications on this site that dogs or breeds who look like pit bulls will also be inherently inclined to be aggressive like pit bulls.

While I do agree that breed history and form do dictate function, I do not believe it's inherently impossible to remove most of the elements that makes a line of dogs aggressive if the breeder were really up for it. As Retriever Man noted: the Coppinger model, which Alexandra utilizes, isn't entirely iron-proof. If floppy eared docile looking breeds were inherently safer due to the genetic links, then why are breeds such as the Blond Hovawart and Chesapeake Bay retrievers more aggressive compared to similar looking and generally docile breeds? Should they not look more like your general molosser? Cane, bulldog, pit bull, etcetera?

I remember reading somewhere that there was a program that wanted to test scanning aggressive dogs to find the genetic and neurological link to their aggression, if found, such a trait could be scanned prior to breeding and thus help a breeder select tamer and safer dogs, so on and so forth. Even pups can be scanned to ensure the dogs don't carry whatever the genetic link is, depending on how this link operates. I am in complete support of this program.

I just find it odd that Alexandra hasn't noted this and I guess this comment is more or less food for thought.

XIP said...

Craven,

I would also like to note, considering if my previous comment is approved, I acknowledge that neither breed I've mentioned has gone on the record of killing someone. I presume this is largely due to both breeds being in more rural locations, rare, less aggressive compared to pit bulls despite being more aggressive compared to other retrievers, and being properly maintained etcetera.

In the case of the wolf dogs, I think breeding and owning them is too risky, at least for 90% of the dog owning population and, like pit bulls, their numbers should be kept low and their ownership in the hands of truly experienced individuals. At least until the breed, at large, is reformed to the point that it's safe to own in populated, suburban areas.

Sweetie Pie said...

Thank you, Miss Margo. All or almost all teenagers temporarily have exaggerated narcissistic traits, but not all have the full-blown personality disorder, nor are all psychopaths.

Many less are so conformist and/or sadistic that they'll stand by some best friend 'even if they killed someone' just because some moronic 'code' says so.

I wonder what this person is trying to achieve by now playing the 'to some extent a victim' here on this blog. It's good CD published this, but I'm skeptical about what the author is up to.

Animal Uncontrol said...

Wolf dogs - the new pit bulls!

Anonymous said...

I agree with Miss Margo. Fuck you.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

i am not a fan of that blog or that blogger but i skimmed the retrieverman blog post you included and i think he is showboating or just trying to be an argumentative asshole. i have noticed those traits in abundance among the so-called superior life forms that defend and promote pit bulls.

in the first paragraph retrieverman states:
"The fox farm experiment on which he bases much of the model is that spots and floppy ears are hallmarks of domestication,"

"hallmark” traits are distinctive traits but not sole traits. that indicates there are other features to consider, so he is speaking out of both sides of his mouth. but hey, nutters love to do that, it is called covering their bases. "it's all how you raise them" and "my pittie is the sweetest dog ever, it's my chihuahua that will rip your face off." yes, i have read those words from the SAME person. wtf? how is it that a group of people this obviously stupid (or maliciously deceitful), can have such an affect on our laws?

i will steal a phrase from camp nutter and add that anyone who speaks in absolutes is set up to fail. i think that i have read enough of both coppinger or semyonova to know that they do not believe in absolutes anymore than i do. people who rely on science and logic tend to not embrace absolutes. it is a “hallmark” trait of ours.

all breeds of purpose bred dogs, regardless of the function that they were selected for, will throw X number of duds. i have met a couple of pit bulls that appeared to be pure in blood, ie not mixed with other breeds, that i thought were probably incapable of even defending themselves if attacked. and the overwhelming majority of pit bulls i have encountered didn't signal either aggressiveness or docility but i look at the breed's profile and potential. it is a shame more people don’t acknowledge a lack of signaling as irrelevant in pit bulls. maybe we would not have so many tragedies that end with, “i don’t know what happened. my pibble has never shown any aggression before."

Anonymous said...

"The fox farm experiment on which he bases much of the model is that spots and floppy ears are hallmarks of domestication,"

Uh, if you don't crop their ears, aren't most pits and related types floppy eared?

Also Border Collies are probably the most 'biddable' dogs that ever were, but the working variety come in pricked, floppy and mixed ear suits. I've been around trialing and farm dogs for years and I can tell you there's no difference in temperament between the type of ears.

So, perhaps floppy ears are hallmarks of domestication ONLY IN FOXES.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

"So, perhaps floppy ears are hallmarks of domestication ONLY IN FOXES."

good point.

Anonymous said...

I've recently moved to Vista Ca with my terminally ill mother. She wanted to be near her other kids, and though I've spent 30 years in the rural upper Midwest and detest the relentless rush and crush of the crammed So. Cal world, as her caregiver, I now find myself here.
Upon meeting our landlord, and meeting his elderly, smallish dog, we learned the extensive patchwork of stitchwork
across most of his back was the work of a pitbull. “I never thought a dog could scream like that" he stated, describing the usual scene of frantic bludgeoning onto an indifferent pitbull. Yep .
Recently I took my mother out in her wheelchair for a stroll in our neighborhood. Soon, oncoming came a pair of mud-colored pitbulls, leaning into their thick collars, their meatheads and lumpy bodies bulging out over their cartoon legs, their pus colored eyes staring with semi-throttled vacancy. A glorious picture that I'm sure I would appreciate if only I had me some education.
Immediately I, with difficulty, maneuvered my mom away and onto the street. The emotional dwarf being towed by two gargoyles never slowed his pace or called a reassurance or apology. I gave him a death- upon- you glance and his superior smirk became yet more twisted. How gratifying to command such respect from two elderly ladies! Microprick Hero.
To Miss Margo: complete agreement. Although raised Catholic, I'm fully cynical about expressions of remorse and guilt. The indifference described toward the terrible death of the cats (creatures I adore though they allow me no illusion of power or control) and the pride at the murder of “pussy dogs" ...these are not simple immaturity or addled romanticism. They are bedrock traits that “maturity" might, or not, alter one's future attitudes



Anonymous said...

My neighbor had two wolf- shepherd dogs. Ironic admixture, no? She was extremely proud of them and made their awesome ancestry known to all. The male was tall, rangy, with one upright ear and the other flopping sideways. The local “crazy lady" was not impressed and warned my neighbor that if her “junkyard dog" continued to run loose and destroy property and lives she would send it home with a wolf trap attached to it's lordly ball sack.
Truly a satisfying memory for me.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

"Recently I took my mother out in her wheelchair for a stroll in our neighborhood. Soon, oncoming came a pair of mud-colored pitbulls, leaning into their thick collars, their meatheads and lumpy bodies bulging out over their cartoon legs, their pus colored eyes staring with semi-throttled vacancy. A glorious picture that I'm sure I would appreciate if only I had me some education.
Immediately I, with difficulty, maneuvered my mom away and onto the street. The emotional dwarf being towed by two gargoyles never slowed his pace or called a reassurance or apology. I gave him a death- upon- you glance and his superior smirk became yet more twisted. How gratifying to command such respect from two elderly ladies! Microprick Hero."

WHOA! I LOVE IT!

Jake said...

I appreciate the insights from the ex-wolfdog owner. He didn't have to say anything, but he owned up to his past.

Some see cynicism or hypocrisy in this, but I'm not so sure. After all, I shudder when I think about the person I was in my late teens, so who's to say this person hasn't evolved and become more humane?

snarky said...

this story reminds me of another : a man kicked in the head and killed for looking after a friends property and trying to break up a huge teen party . none of those hundreds of kids ever came forward to say who was responsible for that drunken murder of a husband and father . years later the culprit was caught but given a relatively tiny slap on the wrist bc he was a minor , i suppose .

Miss Margo said...

In my teens, I was a Romantic and a self-identified communist. It was all good intentions. I didn't kill my neighbors' pets and gloat about it.

The author did not even really love LuLu. Gave her away to a stranger and didn't follow up on what became of her...? And talk about parents being asleep at the switch! HELLO, why did they indulge this spectacularly bad idea?

But I hope that you're right, Jake. I mean that.

snarky said...

i applaud the authors honesty and believe s/he was very typical of not only pitbullers but many other dog owners as well . just one more reason to regulate all kinds of dangerous dogs . they shouldnt be in the hands of very many ppl at all , certainly not teen-agers or others with no moral compass .

Anonymous said...

Just an aside...why are wolves so revered, so sanctified? Watching them interact, the frozen snarls, the sniveling, obsequious sidling and appeasement by the menials...
It kind of reminds me of middle-school recess. Or a prison yard. I've never wanted to claim kinship to any of those species.

Miss Margo. When the nuns heard you declare yourself a communist, did they think you meant communionist? Just an intriguing thought, and am trying to imagine the manifesto...
And as too many of us know, nuns are way more badass than any dog-wolf miscegenation.

snarky said...


even huskies tend to be a problematic breed , as far as roaming and killing smaller animals ect ...children sometimes . a half wolf dog is going to be much , much worse than a husky and is probably going to need containment and special handling to avoid the possibility of it killing other pets and injuring kids . the part husky i owned never hurt another dog but she certainly had a strong prey drive along with keen senses and more than usual intelligence . with me as an owner she never roamed or killed anything bigger than a rabbit but the genes for it were certainly there . although i love the wilder dogs and breeds , i think i lean towards a dog bred for companionship and ease of ownership rather than some other purpose . give me a gentle but smart breed thats easy to own and take care of and thats all i want these days .

Sputnik said...

To answer Anon 3:01, there's this. Before any nutters, wolf fans or Lorenz fans rush to ad hominem this author, do please take the trouble to read the primary sources she cites:

"Most people don’t know that the entire science of animal psychology got its start in Hitler’s Germany. This happened in Berlin on 10th January, 1936, when the German Society for Animal Psychology was founded under the auspices of, and sponsorship by, the Nazi government. Konrad Lorenz was co-editor and an important contributor, writing many articles for the Society’s journal, Zeitschrift für Tierpsychologie. Unlike some others who stood at the roots of animal psychology as a science, Lorenz never had problems with the Nazi authorities. On the contrary, he joined the party as soon as he could (1938), and the Nazis liked him so much that he was appointed professor of psychology at the University of Königsberg in 1940. The admiration was mutual. Lorenz worked at the Race Policy Bureau. In 1942, he participated in examining 877 people of mixed Polish–German descent, selecting who would and who wouldn’t go to a concentration camp to be murdered. He believed firmly in superior and inferior races and consistently expressed great contempt for the latter. He believed in a strict, hierarchical society, in which an absolute authority ruled to whom all owed obedience. And, just as humans had always done before them, the Nazis — including Lorenz — projected their ideas about human society onto the animal kingdom. This is illustrated by the Nazi Cult of the Wolf.

"It just so happens that the Cult of the Wolf played a very important part in Nazi ideology. The wolf was held up as an example, to show that the Nazis were merely trying to reorganise society according to noble, natural laws. Projecting, and without bothering to read any science or to gain any real knowledge, the Nazis (and Lorenz) depicted the wolf as a noble, wild, hardened, ruthless animal who possessed all kinds of wonderful Nazi characteristics. The wolf lived, just like the Nazi, in a closed and elite group. He was, just like the Nazi, absolutely loyal to this group, ready to unquestioningly sacrifice his life for the sake of the group if the need arose. The group’s structure was just as hierarchical and rigid as the structure of the Nazi Party. Each wolf had a rank he strictly adhered to, submissive to those above him, ruthless to those beneath him. Most important perhaps, the wolves were led by a sort of Führer: the Alpha Leader. The Alpha Leader was a strong, always male wolf, whom all the other wolves worshipped and obeyed at all times, and who was fiercely desired by all the female wolves (yes, even the Nazis had sexual fantasies). And now come all the other things we are told about dogs. The Alpha Wolf receives deference in all things. He is always the first to eat and the first to go through a door. He is always up front in any kind of procession, and he always gets to sit or lie higher than the other wolves. The other wolves hurry out of his way when he is coming through. They are constantly giving off submissive signals in his presence. The Alpha Wolf can bite anyone he likes without getting bitten back. He is so utterly sure of his authority that he can, when in the mood, behave mercifully towards his inferiors — for which these inferiors are then infinitely grateful and worship him all the more. The similarity to Adolph Hitler can hardly escape us..."

Sputnik said...

Yep, that's Alexandra Semyonova again, at: http://www.nonlineardogs.com/100MostSillyPart1-2.html

It appears to me that the attraction of the Cult of the Wolf is the same as the attraction of the Cult of the Gripping Mauler, with the fans all imagining themselves the Führer of the pits, as well as emulating Lorenz's privilege of dealing out death sentences at will -- though history is forcing them to do this by Frankenmauler proxy.
Of course nowadays the Fur Mommies have (with the help of Cesar Millan) have morphed this into 'all dogs are Nazi dogs' (the real meaning of their 'all dogs bite'), and the sexual adoration they mostly covertly (though sometimes overtly) nurture for their grippers makes me surprised they don't all use the alias Eva Braun.

snarky said...


hitler was very proud of his shepard bitch blondie and designed tricks to show off her intelligence . i was somewhat surprised to hear that in the end , hitler tried out some cyanide pills on her to see if they really worked ....they did .

Anonymous said...

To Anon in Vista CA- I wish you would forward your comment to the San Diego Reader- "anonymously" of course for your own safety- it seems the nutters are very upset about a recent issue with an article about their beloved maulers, and I must say your writing is a really a great read! ...but alas the pro- pibblers have all claimed "they will never read that racist publication ever again!" (is this even a threat to a free weekly paper mostly funded by medical pot dispensary ads? I doubt it) so sadly maybe they will not ever get to see it, but I know a lot of other san diegans who would absolutely love it

Anonymous said...

I have a friend who is a vet tech, who I spoke with today, and her conclusion is that there is definitely "something wrong" with most of the pit bull owners she sees. She's refused to assist with several aggressive pit bulls, and one aggressive GSD.

My vet will refuse to treat large, powerful, obviously aggressive dogs, he won't put his patients or his staff at risk.

Interestingly, I see some parallels between the types of people who are attracted to pit bulls, and those attracted to wolf dogs. Tia Torres had wolves and wolf-dogs on her former property at Villalobos, but which never made it onto the show. Tim Racer and Donna Reynolds of Bad Rap, recently traveled half way across the country to adopt a wolfish looking canine from an organization that "rescues" wolf hybrids, and promotes them as pets, claiming "it's all how you raise them". When posters on the Facebook page asked if their new "dog" was part wolf, Donna answered coyly that she just didn't know the mix, but that it really didn't matter.

Amazing that Donna and Tim ignored all the supposedly wonderful and needy pit bulls in their own back yard, and went to great lengths and expense to NOT adopt a pit bull.

Branwen

Anonymous said...

I read the Terhune “Lad A Dog" books when I was around 9 years old. I vaguely remember Lad A Dog fighting off a maddened bull and a maddened Clydesdale stallion, and when not thusly occupied spent his time “licking his absurdly small silvery white paws" Yes, I remember that virile phrase because Terhune used it pretty often. My fourth-grader's brain just found it hilarious. However, I never developed a craving for a Supercanine, or a fetish for dainty Collie feet. Maybe girls are not as susceptible.

Packhorse said...

"AND SO IT BITES"
by Pittie Paz

This doggy smile on me, it’s war when the leash drop
Just another pittie nutter holdin’ game dogs
You the type that’ll run when my jaws pop
The type that'll hide a gun when he see cops
But not me, I’ll aim my body weight at your crown
Show you the pit way to grab, shake you down
Yeah, and then they'll laugh at your widow
As this game pooch blast through your window
Cold when I was young but I survive to harm ya
Drop bombs like a B-25 on ya
Yeah, it's Vietnam in the Petco
Just keep my seat warm when you let go
I run wild with cane corsos that bit well
And put the doggies in purses through big hell
We came up in the game at the same time
And bit a hundred fifty nutters with the same line

[CHORUS]
When I see another dog I usually maul it
Owners don't like it, but we’re psychotic
It's on 'til the death, 'til we settle the score
Bust off, we bust leash straps ready for war, what
Been down for years maulin' back to back, take your whole damn pack

[Vinnie Paz]
I’m another rabid raccoon
Hit you with forty-two stab wounds
Bury your body deep in earth inside a black tomb
You scared of the pain, you fair-weather
I'm hardcore like Paul Bearer in sheer terror
I'll be ready for more with my limbs gone
Y'all ain't ready to brawl when the pit’s on
Won't stop till I’m dead in hell

Pittie Paz, backyard-bred daddy, Ed Rendell
Was bred to kill, yeah, because the beast in all us
I was causing medi bills like you was paying mortgage
You was listening to Spindletop hustlers
While I was crushing tires, bumpers, and mufflers
I was playing little games with the farmers
I was dropping barnyard suckers like it's Sparta
You a novice, I mauled my own vet
And I was there when the bulldog and the bull met

[CHORUS]

We ain't safe if this dog exists
So I side with the Toledo Blade columnists
If you with me, pittie nutter, raise scarred arm and fist
And we can crush a fucking cat and see if God exists
I scarred your wrist, with a mouth like a rusty razor
And if it's done by pits consider it favor
And it ain't safe no more
Ain't safe in no motherfucking place no more
Get laced in your upper body, face and jaw
You the type of cur that we ain't got the patience for
We break the law, while you pay your respect to all us
It looks like beef when we be flaying your neck with our jaw
I love to hear the sound of a corpse drop
So protect your fucking neck like a cough drop
I'm licking four shots from different latitudes
So keep on mauling like a bitch that got an attitude

[CHORUS]

S.K.Y. said...

Somebody mentioned zero tolerance for loose dogs. I totally agree and take action ALL the time about this--so far to no avail.

I live in a village outside a liberal college town. Yesterday I went to the village post office before heading (late) to work in town. A block from the post office, some guy was walking a 100 lb. Newfoundland off leash. No leash in his hands, either. The dog was ranging up to 50' away, and was walking around visiting various businesses, the library, etc.

I aborted the post office trip and instead drove to the village police station. I filed a report of a 100# unleashed dog and politely asked them to immediately send a patrol out with a warning or fine before the guy and dog disappeared. At the time of my report, the guy was less than 2 blocks from the village police station.

Instead, they had me wait in a room for 5 minutes, at which point two officers came in and slowly asked questions and took notes with descriptions, my contact info, address, drivers license number, phone numbers for cell/home/work, how long I'd lived in the area, etc. By the time they finished, I'm sure the man and dog were miles away or back in their house. I'm pretty sure the police didn't bother going out to look for them, either, even though it would have been the only call of the day in this village of 7,000.

In the nearby city where I work, I routinely see off-leash dogs being heeled along urban sidewalks or down urban bike paths. One lady takes her dog on the same route every day--always off leash. (Chessie Bay Retriever--the most aggressive of all sporting breeds--and a breed that nearly killed one of my dogs at an agility exhibition in the 90's). I have called Animal Control numerous times asking that she be warned or fined, and giving her exact itinerary and time... but continue to see her out every day with the off-leash dog.

Across from my office is a wilderness style park in the city, with numerous signs saying dogs (on or off leash) are prohibited. Yet every day when I walk there at lunch, there are multiple loose dogs being walked. A call to the police and A.C. has not resulted in any changes. I've also confronted owners directly (not to kick them out, but to ask them to leash their dogs that are jumping on me), and get dirty looks and verbal insults.

I don't know what is going on. When I lived in the same city in the 90s, I never saw off-leash dogs outside the city's numerous well-attended dog parks. I heard there was a $90 fine--and it was enforced. In fact, at that time a cat outdoors without a leash was also a $90 fine. Now I see off-leash dogs daily. No pit bulls yet, but I'd like to get the attention of A.C. and my local police to start fining people BEFORE that happens. They seem unwilling to take any action whatsoever until AFTER the dog has attacked a human.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

"They seem unwilling to take any action whatsoever until AFTER the dog has attacked a human."

possible explanations.

1) they are too overwhelmed to bother with that kind of call, until it is too late.

2) they suffer from the same collective dementia that all doggies are wonderful.

Anonymous said...

Hello again craven you have zero idea who this is. However me and you have spoke thru email letting me gain your information thru ISP doxing, expect us. expect to see your name and family names on pastebin, DOB's address SSN phone numbers and etc. I did this simply because I do not give a fuck about what happens to you. and you deserve everything brought fourth to you. Knowledge is free my friend.

Sonya Marmeladov said...

Aw, dougie, how precious... you're pretending to be a hacker thug now. Just so you know, we were rather impressed with your previous legendary exploit, hiring an elite private investigator to get a few bits of information anyone could look up in 30 seconds or so with the help of google.

As to your cause - ah, if only you could spare some of that concern for the victims of your propaganda campaign, rather than those who tell the truth about you.

Oh well, a gal can wish, can't she?

Oh, and dougie, be advised that you will be held accountable for any harm that comes to any of these whistleblowers. The authorities take a dim view of inciting a murderous mob to silence those you disagree with.


snarky said...

i thinks its pretty obvious the anonymous cretin DOES give a fuck what happens to her , he just doesnt have the cojones to do more than make pathetic threats .maybe he should grow some and then get them blown off .

Anonymous said...

the only thing I give a fuck about is ruining the bitch, I have ALL I need CHECK PASTEBIN, SSN and all. VPN ready, lets see what we can charge!! Knowledge is free. *ANON*

Anonymous said...

The former wolf dog owner's past behavior disgusts me. And at the same time, it matches exactly that of pit nutters. What is it with people? Whenever I hear of dangerous animals like fugly wolf dogs and pits and the power the posses and the damage they can (and usually WILL) do, I want to get further away from them, not closer to them. Like hell if I'd ever own one or be around someone who wants one.

Laws need to be made about owning these hideous beasts. If they won't make them illegal to be owned, make it so they have to live FAR away from others to keep them and still take great measures to confine them.

Anonymous said...

The former wolf dog owner's past behavior disgusts me. And at the same time, it matches exactly that of pit nutters. What is it with people? Whenever I hear of dangerous animals like fugly wolf dogs and pits and the power the posses and the damage they can (and usually WILL) do, I want to get further away from them, not closer to them. Like hell if I'd ever own one or be around someone who wants one.

Laws need to be made about owning these hideous beasts. If they won't make them illegal to be owned, make it so they have to live FAR away from others to keep them and still take great measures to confine them.

snarky said...

anonymous cretin : if knowledge is free perhaps you should learn how to write 5 sentences without making 5 mistakes and contradicting yourself twice . knowledge is free my uneducated friend .

snarky said...


anon cretin : youre like a little barking dog .... are you going to bite or just bark ? methinks , if you were going to bite , youd have already done it , instead here you are still barking .

Your Quiet Neighbor said...

And, just like barking dogs, you're filling this space with useless noise.

Anonymous said...

Barking? That's why its currently on pastebin, Look stupid, snarky your next :*

Ka D said...

Knowledge is free-too bad mental health evaluation and treatment isn't.

snarky said...


you're next , not your . ignoramus anon .

scorched earth said...

I looked at pastebin, a miserable, murky site with outdated material.

Miss Margo said...

Anon:
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Anonymous said...

OH NOES NOT PASTEBIN!

WTF?! Is this even serious?

I wish I could take these threats seriously. Maybe I wouldn't be laughing if I did.

Dear anon,

You are pathetic. Even if you could paste someone's personal information online so other people could attack them, you really should ask yourself WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU. I'm sure you piss people off, so is that how we do things now? Someone pisses you off, so you publicize personal information hoping to get them hurt? WOW!

snarky said...


microdick probably .

Anonymous said...

craven desires blog post peoples information all the time, I am doing the same. how does it feel? your mad, me on the other hand will be anonymous, you have zero idea who this is or could ever be, Be happy I don't Deface this waste of space.

Снегурочка said...

Be afraid, dougie. Be very afraid.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...



"craven desires blog post peoples information all the time, I am doing the same."

a nutter once again demonstrates either their stupidity or their psychopathy, or possibly both.

i post information about people that is available to the public. i have never posted private information or even information that i have obtained through private forums. there are a huge differences between what you do and what i do. one is criminal, the other is not. for example, if i find lisa camuso bragging that she is telling white lies to city council members in order to further her anti-bsl agenda on a public forum, take a screenshot of her comment and share it on craven, that is simply exposing unethical behavior, much like anonymous does but i don't hack any computers or break any laws to do it and i sign my name to it. compare that to publicizing my SSN.

the REAL anonymous would be on MY side here.

i am not sure how far the real anonymous is willing to go to continue their muckraking and cleansing campaigns but you, the anonymous wannabe, will have to kill me to shut me up.



and don't be so sure that i have zero idea who you are.

Anonymous said...

I must say, the anon that is making threats, doesn't realize how illegal it is. Not everything on the internet is "anonymous." And way to be stealthy, announcing what and where. How about you just turn yourself in for being a lame ass wannabe hacker?

BAM

Anonymous said...

I know who you are, now tell me who I am,
Me other the other hand am sitting pretty on a vpn one minute I'm in france next minute colorado michigan utah blah blah blah, decode my vpn, I could be james or maybe even doug, who the fuck am I?

Родя Раскольников said...

I'll tell you who you are. Your name is mud.

Anonymous said...

Nobody cares who you are. You're a nothing. Wow. VPN. So not impressed.

BAM

Anonymous said...

Colleen Lynn please come to the front of the line we need to chat :*

Anonymous said...

Go away Anon ,we're tired of this. When pit bulls and other dangerous dogs stop attacking people, then there won't be any reason for this blog. Then we can go on to other important things in the world that need changing.

The real problem is that PEOPLE, including children are being killed by pit bulls. You may not care about children, but I do. I do enough to take on people like you Just slide back into the woodwork. Or better yet, change. You were a kid once. I assume you are still a person?

Why not defend actual people instead of dangerous dogs?

Anonymous said...

"Why not defend actual people instead of dangerous dogs?"

Because anon is deranged. Anon identifies with the plight of pit bulls (there isn't one), and would rather fight for the fighting undog, than fight for what's right. Anon would rather go about things the wrong way. Why doesn't anon take people to court and sue them? You know, how normal people handle their affairs when they have been wronged. Because anon would rather have vigilante justice. It's kind of hard to take people to court when there isn't something to charge them with. Hence, all the internet threats. Calling out Colleen? REALLY? Reality and the truth are kind of hard to discredit, but nutters do it all the time.

BAM

The dude abides said...

LOL where does dougie get the idea that Colleen Lynn hangs out here? Doesn't he know how to find dogsbite.org?

Lucu Lencia said...

In reply to Sputnik's post about the "cult of the wolf".

Indeed. That is where the incorrect idea of dominance and submission in dogs comes from.

For a start - dogs are not the same as wolves (they are similar to puppy / juvenile wolves in temperament but not the same).

And further, wolves do not act the way they are portrayed in the "cult of the wolf" - they don't have a strict hierarchy at all.
There are only 2 parents (the "alpha" pair) who are (usually) the only breeding wolves in a pack, and their current and previous 2 - 3 years offspring.
Since it's a family the parents "lead" (insomuch as any parents can be said to "lead" a family).

There is no "omega" - that scape-goating behaviour is only seen in unrelated wolves who are forced unnaturally to live together in confined spaces (i.e. in captivity). The pups are not "dominated" by the parents they are just cared for and taught by them. The older offspring help to raise the younger offspring and when they are old enough (usually around 3 years) they leave the pack and go off to find a mate and start their own pack. A wolf pack is basically similar to a human family unit. They hunt together, eat together, sleep together, play together and grow up together. It's nothing like how the Nazi's (or the "dominance theory" dog "trainers") envisioned it.

Anonymous said...

I always wanted a wolfdog like whitefang too as a child - so I can sympathize with the OP's childhood sentiments.
When his "baby" started killing pets, as an irresponsible teenager his initial reaction was to try to protect her from retribution - I can understand it even if I don't like it.

Not caring about those "pussy dogs" and cats that she killed is psychopathic and as an animal lover I personally would have cared and probably cried about it, but I myself remember being a bit psychopathic as a teen and I think it's a phase that a lot of young teens go through.

My moggie cats used to kill mice, songbirds and pigeons all the time so I got used to burying little bodies in the garden myself (I didn't have to hide them though - with cats that go outdoors in the UK it's expected that they'll kill something at some point and no one really bats an eye).

As I got older I did get a lot more sentimental about living creatures - I find it hard even to kill a bug these days.

I did eventually get my "white fang" but he isn't actually a wolf dog. Instead I got a working sheepdog (working line non-pedigreed border collie). His aloofness, intelligence, agility and acute senses are much like a wolf's.. or rather, much like how a wolf as a pet is romanticized. However border collies are fully domesticated and extremely biddable (I won't say obedient because he is NOT naturally obedient, the obedience comes with lots and lots of training).

The working line sheepdogs (ignoring the mostly black and white colouration) look much like coyotes - with a wiry rangy wild look and intense eyes. If you want a "white fang" why not get a herding dog? Kelpies and working sheepdogs both have that "wild dog" look and the intelligence and agility of wolves in a smaller, domesticated package. They have almost the full hunting instinct intact apart from the kill bite - so you can take them to herding lessons and you get to see their stalking, eyeing, chasing behaviour without the bloody corpse at the end.

Anion said...

Crazy Anon is a dumbass if he thinks anyone will believe he got a name and address off of someone's IP. It doesn't actually work that way; all you get is a geographical area and internet provider (i.e. Comcast). If you want more you have to get a court order/subpoena, and I seriously doubt any judge or internet provider on the planet will respond positively to "I want this person's name and address because I don't like what they say on the internet about dogs."

If this person DID somehow manage to get that info from your provider (like if they know someone who works there in a high enough position that they have access to that information, or whatever)...they and the employee have committed a federal crime. And while they can't sue you because of things you say about dogs, you most certainly CAN sue and get a court order to find out who the person posting your private information gained through illegal means is--and law enforcement will want to have a talk with them, too.

Empty Threats Anon is, again, a dumbass.

Anonymous said...

Crazy Anon does not have a grasp on the law, let alone reality. But that's what I'd expect from a nutter.

BAM

Steffanie Byrnes said...

I do not agree with this at all. I own hybrid cats, and the same argument is used to try and ban them. They actually make great pets, and they are not aggressive, or the many lies and propaganda animal rights people use to stop breeding them. I was seriously depressed when I got my Bengal, because of chronic pain issues. She brought life and fun into my home. So, we got another Bengal and a Savannah. My Savannah has a great deal of Serval in her, so you have to have a basic understanding of how servals interact. Animal rights use their hissing or growling as aggressive, when it is often how Servals commonly communicate. I do know people that own wolf hybrids that love them, and raise them with their Savannahs and children. I also know people with pet servals too. Usually it is lack of education of how to properly care for them. If you choose a exotic or hybridized animals you need to make sure you understand their needs. That is usually the problem people have. It is unfair to use a hybrid animal as a example and deny people that are responsible owners the right to own these animals. Hybrid wolf's and cats, especially early generation need specialized care. Also, hybrid cats have never killed anyone.

Steffanie Byrnes said...

Not to mention, what psychopath teenager allows her dog to roam freely to feast on the neighborhood pets?! What kind of parents are so clueless they think that is acceptable to have a half wolf dog terrorizing the neighborhood. They could have made a kennel for the dog. Not to mention, she should have been walking that dog daily. Interactive toys?!! There was so much more she could have done. My husband also grew up in Alaska and he had a wolf hybrid, and they had a run for him. The dog saved their lives a few times. He was a great dogs, because they were responsible owners. The first time a dog starts feasting on pets, they should be euthanized, period.

Even though she was a teenager she was selfish, cruel, and showed no empathy for the animals her dog killed. She even refused to do the basic responsible thing and keep her mongrel contained. No wonder the dog bit her, she was in no way the alpha, the dog was! She allowed her to do whatever she wanted. These dogs need a pack leader, and not a playmate. The parents are beyond stupid, and are truly to blame. Did they do any research of this breed? Did they train the dog at all? Then they dump the dog, and never bothered to even check up on her?!? Ya, I hope she still does not own animals. I really worry about the lack of compassion the owner felt too. Even as a teenager I felt compassion.

That said, just because this moron is a bad owner does not mean I am with my hybrid cats. Unlike her I did research, joined groups with other owners and breeders. If I am having a issue I ask for help. In every breed you have irresponsible ownership. But with cats, they do not kill people.

Anon said...

I see only weak parallels to irresponsible pit bull ownership. This is an example of poor parenting, while pit bull ownership is a virulent cultural problem.