Thursday, June 28, 2012

CGC test #5: walking through a crowd and test #8: reaction to another dog

i have a lot more to say on the subject of the CGC but this will do for now.

Test 5: Walking through a crowd

This test demonstrates that the dog can move about politely in pedestrian traffic and is under control in public places. The dog and handler walk around and pass close to several people (at least three). The dog may show some interest in the strangers but should continue to walk with the handler, without evidence of over-exuberance, shyness or resentment. The handler may talk to the dog and encourage or praise the dog throughout the test. The dog should not jump on people in the crowd or strain on the leash.


Test 8: Reaction to another dog

This test demonstrates that the dog can behave politely around other dogs. Two handlers and their dogs approach each other from a distance of about 20 feet, stop, shake hands and exchange pleasantries, and continue on for about 10 feet. The dogs should show no more than casual interest in each other. Neither dog should go to the other dog or its handler.


here are two CGC tests on youtube that beautifully demonstrate how the testers can bend the rules so they can skew the results when they feel like it.

havanese

test #5 starts at 1:20. notice this tiny little dog walking in the middle of a moving wheel chair, a moving walker and a moving cane.

test #8 starts at 2:20. the havanese and handler stop, shake hands and then make a second pass.




pit bull

test #5 begins at 2:40 and test #8 follows it immediately. notice how the pit bull weaves in and out of stationary people. maybe they are practicing "stand like a tree"?

in test #8 the pit bull and his handler greet another man and pit bull. notice how the two do not even get close enough to complete the required hand shake, yet the pit bull passed.



did you all hear the nutter in the crowd yell "make 'em proud!" in test #5 which should be renamed "reaction to act like a tree".

WHO HERE THINKS THE CGC TEST IS FAIRLY AND CONSISTENTLY EXECUTED?

i am extremely well read when it comes to the pit bull community and the ATTS and the CGC tests. many of them consider the CGC to be the easier of the two.


so, ryan, do you have video of your CGC test to share?

24 comments:

Rumpelstiltskin said...

I never had a cheer leading squad when my GSDs got their CGC. They just took it passed, and done. My youngest one won't be getting hers anytime soon because she's already 1.5 yrs old and still too easily excited.

Amazing how pit nutters make such a big deal about passing a CGC. Also, I don't recall the stranger touching dog portion of the test...petting yes. The last part where the owner is gone from sight for a few minutes, the dog is allowed to get up? Mine never did, I thought it would disqualify them for that.

The best part, those pits never got close enough! It would have made a more exciting Youtube video if they had been within 1 foot of each other. IMHO, the dog failed for this reason alone because the test was not administered properly.

dawn james said...

i should point out that i have seen pit handlers shake hands in other CGC videos. but i consistently see little dogs put in more chaotic crowds than pit bulls.

i have to wonder what effect cheer leading squads have on the judges.

april 29 said...

No chances were taken with pittie, long line used for recall and sit-stay. The cute little dog did not require this extra care... The handshake was a joke.

Having done the ATTS and the CGC, yes, the CGC is a very easy test. Any dog should pass it easily.

Jim Reeve said...

I can't believe that people actually use pitters as guide dogs. And obviously the test is subjective to the test administrator.

There's no doubt that some testers are great and care about the dog, but others obviously don't. I know this happens everywhere, but when it comes to dogs, one can't be too careful.

DubV said...

I'm guessing the number of pit bull guide dogs is very, very small.

Jane Addams said...

I think "guide dog" as opposed to "service dog" means the dog has been trained to aid a blind person. I guarantee there are zero pit bull "guide dogs."

Service dog pit bulls are all fakes or stunts. most failed but Jane Berkey is trying to make it work. Be prepared for a media blitz when her service dog is put into service. She put out a nationwide call for a pit with the temperament of a lab, with the caveat that any dog identified by any shelter worker anywhere as a pit bull will be counted as a pit bull, she's providing abundant training, and voila, she will produce a stunt pit service dog.

Dawn, Fantatic finds. I can't believe they didn't manage the handshake AND PUT THAT ON VIDEO. I think the POINT of the handshake is to show that 1. the dogs can be that close and 2. another human being reaching out toward the owner and the dog is not perceived as a threat!

And btw, the previous post - fantastic find! I don't know how you did that!

"reaction to act like a tree" rofl!

passing the CGC is no proof that pit bulls are generally safe, not by a long shot. And not even if the tests were not BS because of the kinds of things Dawn just showed.

And I'm surprised about the leashes, too. When I did training with my dog, I was told the final test we did was based on the CGC, but we had to do most of it off lead - all heels, the turns, down/sit/stays and come. no one stood with the dog for the long down stay either. I thought that was part of the CGC. Damn. I could have gotten a certifycate. We didn't have strangers or strange dogs brought in for the social parts, we just used each other, so the dogs and people were known to each other, and we used leashes for the social trials.

The training did not change my dog's temperament ONE IOTA, BTW. He was still super vigilant. He was more obedient, and I was more attuned to him. And we both enjoyed ourselves and bonded.

DubV said...

The thing with the nutters is they would love a pit bull guide dog, even if they knew it put the blind person at increased risk. They would be all for it and donate a million. They just can't let go of the fact that pits aren't the bestest dog in the world at everything. They are not known as intelligent dogs at all.

snarky said...

never mind the fucking mutants ,... beware the owners . they're the ones that should be tested and not by fellow lunatics.

Sharon Yildiz said...

The first test was excellent--picture perfect about how to run a CGC test. The second test... well... you know they have to make it easy for the pit to be able to pass. The tester should be banned from holding further CGC tests for not enforcing the handshake.

There's already a way to cheat (legally) on that test. You can put your dog on a sit stay, then walk forward as much as the leash allows (usually 6') and shake hands with the other person. That's still legal. But both people and dogs sitting a mile apart? No way!

And for Rumpelstiltskin: There is no requirement in the CGC for the dog to actually dog a "stay" in the test where the owner leaves for 3 minutes. The dog's leash is held by a stranger. The dog is allowed to move around, change positions, etc. The things they CANNOT do during this test are: bark or whine more than for a couple of seconds, pull hard on the leash, or jump on the person holding the leash. The main thing being tested is that the dog doesn't get hysterical and bark for the owner to come back.

The only part of the test requiring a stay is when the owner walks away briefly and then calls the dog.

Pit nutter said...

I cgc'd the rest of my dogs and my newest foster (you guessed it...another pit mix) on Monday **yawn**

Dude, I BaggedYourPit said...

I guess I never actually watched a CGC test before, so I was guessing there might be something to it. But really, that's it? And you get a certificate for that? And wasn’t it Ryan/Pit Nutter who asked, "Is that all you got?" (Hahaha! The irony!)

Imagine how silly this looks to someone who's been to a few retriever trials. Imagine 50-60 young, mostly unspayed, unneutered dogs, with a number of them handling not just off lead, but a hundred + yards out from the handler, across terrain, past other dogs, other people, with guns going off, etc. Do you think any of the people who train for this ever gave a moment's thought to clearing that mighty CGC hurdle? (LOL!) No wonder I’d never heard of it until some pit bull people thought it gave them bragging rights. I even think some of the rougher Chesapeakes I've known could trot through that without preparation. Just for fun, imagine swapping out the retrievers for pit bulls at retriever trials. Better cue the chaotic death metal music for the gigantic f'ing wreck that would be.

C’mon Ryan. Show me a pit bull doing something a million labs have done. Show me a pit bull that will charge out on a blind “back” to a hundred and fifty yards – then, upon hearing a whistle, spin back to face the handler and pin his butt to the ground like someone turned on a magnet, then change direction on “over” with a hand gesture. Then show me a half dozen of his fellow pit bulls on sit/stay, off lead, while grouped together and despite all the excitement. No, we gotta hear about a pit bull passing this CGC as if that ugly POS just planted a flag on top of Mt. Everest. “Herk-de-derk-de-doop-de-dah, muh pit bull didn’t maul nuttin’ in front uh nobody today!”

Here. Watch some Labradors doing some lab stuff when they're not signed up to lead the blind or something. I don’t see the need to train with live birds, but this video is useful in that it also illustrates a point about breed and breeding. Even though this guy’s English bred labs need some work on “give,” notice their inherently soft carry. The live pigeon is retrieved over and over by different dogs and never suffers a bite. (I once knew an owner that said his drake mallard had probably been carried a thousand times.) The light carry isn’t a matter of “all in how they’re raised,” but all in how they’re bred. This stuff isn’t rocket science, but to pit bull owners it might as well be launch pad algorithms. Enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAlnxRBkIBo

Oh well. Back to Pit Nutter’s pit bull getting a certificate for not doing anything during nothing. Buppph! What’s the point? I had a 2,000 lb. bull that could be led through that CGC test, yet I promise you he could be extremely dangerous in other situations.

DubV said...

Ryan nutter, yawn is right; you are boring. You don't even come with a new, interesting argument that makes us think. No, same old stuff that has been exposed a million times before.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Sharon Y,

I never thought to make a big deal of my dog's CGC. By the end of the class and at the CGC. No pit bulls in either class. Most of the dogs behaved like service dogs.

Eventually, I'll take my youngest GSD to her advanced obedience and then work on her CGC. For this overly hyper one, I will be ENTHUSIASTIC when she passes. I suppose there is a reason to boast about my youngest passing the CGC.

Make a note, I did not train her to be so hyper. It's in her BREEDING from her PARENTS.

Dude, I bagged your pit,

I saw the video. What is the deal with 5 dislikes on that video? Must be jealous pit nutters?

dawn james said...

that was one hell of a masterful burn dude.

still waiting on your CGC videos ryan.

Pit nutter said...

you people are hilarious, first you belittle me when i say i could CGC my dogs in my sleep then tell me the CGC isn't worth a shit when I do lol

and no i didn't video tape any of the tests...lol why would I..they are a joke...any dog should pass the CGC

april 29 said...

Ryan, ANYBODY can CGC their dogs in their sleep. As always, you are missing the point.

DubV said...

Pit nutter is not remembering correctly the general exchange over the CGC test.

Dude, I BaggedYourPit said...

Rumpelstiltskin; With a little reflection, I can see the CGC as a goal and accomplishment with an exuberant pup. There's certainly been a ton of derby class dogs, (under 2 years of age,) that can forget everything they ever learned about manners at the drop of a hat if someone says hi to them, or they think there’s an opportunity to make friends with another dog. Having owned a couple of wild Marley types, (which go on to be great dogs because of that enthusiastic drive,) I can see them failing CGC during a burst of youthful exuberance, but that doesn’t translate to risk in the real world beyond their issue of being too happy about anything and everything all the time. My comments were intended within the context of the test showing something about a pit bull’s character and safety beyond the controlled environment of the test, particularly since it is held up as proof by pit bull owners. With the test being such a simple thing to start with, I think it’s appalling the testers in the video feel the need to cheat to help a pit bull pass.

I noticed the dislikes on the video, too. While I’m certain field trial dogs would be enough to make pit bull owners so apoplectic with resentful envy they would give it a thumbs down, I’d bet the dislikes are coming from retriever folks who disapprove of the trainer using a live pigeon. On the one hand, the trainer wants to show off his dogs’ soft mouths in the video for the benefit of people unfamiliar with this. On the other hand, this can’t be much fun for the pigeon. Those of us who already understand the soft mouth would prefer he used bumpers rather than a live bird, but then I wouldn’t have been able to show yet another example of a breed specific, genetically developed characteristic. At the minimum, this certainly illustrates that a high prey drive and killing bite do not go hand-in-hand, so once again - breed matters.

april 29 said...

Please keep in mind the fact that the AFF, pit bull advocacy in the extreme, subsidizes CGC testing. Some organizations holding CGC tests will get a payment from the AFF for each pit bull that passes. As I recall, the payment is either $125 or $150 per passing pit bull. Beagles or Poodles do not profit the testing organizations in this manner. But then again, Beagles or Poodles do not require this level of advocacy.

skeptifem said...

wtf is this supposed to prove anyway? I thought the big problem with pit bulls was that they are unpredictable. Walking them through a crowd doesn't prove a damn thing when the problem is consistency of behavior.

dawn james said...

watch tucker and dave again. see that little girl on the far right pull her arm in when they approached her?

also in the mastiff video, i didn't catch this the first time but during the friendly stranger petting test, the friendly stranger was stooped over the mastiff and petting him on top of the head. that's the same thing the denver tv show host did when the dogo tried to eat her face. kyle dyer was heavily criticized for HER provocative behavior. patricia mcconnell advises against this behavior that people in dog clubs (who you would think would know better) engage in without incident.

snarky said...

what a weird breed , pitters are , with their bizzare rites o passage like the CGC , their twisted morality , the ear and nose plugs and the sleeve tats . what is it about the human animal that explains such a strange phenomenon?

Jewel Jade said...

Interesting. AFter watching both of these videos, I have to say that my CGC test was harder than both of these. These CGCs are a breeze, and I only wish mine were that easy. I guess the organization I trained with wants to be sure that their dogs not only pass the CGC, but go above and beyond. The handshake is an important part of the test. If you have a service dog, you know that many, many people approach you and your dog to talk, mostly about their dog. Some of them do have a dog with them, and it's important that your dog can handle this situation. We did all of our stays off lead. I think it's weird that they used a long leash for this part. Also, the walk through the crowd was laughable for the pit bull. The walk through the crowd should look more like the first video with the little dog, except with more people/bigger crowd. Anyway....I'm glad that at least some pit bull owners are making an attempt to have their mutants somewhat trained, but I agree....passing a CGC has nothing to do with when and where your pit bull will decide to mangle a child. They're still completely unpredictable. You just can't train the kill out of the killer.

snarky said...

you can take a pit outta the pit ....but u cant take the pit outta the pit bull.