on february 6th, bleeding heart chicago examiner pit nutter JOSHUA-PAUL ANGELL wrote an article about how pit bulls out perform the general dog population on the ATTS.
the next day, pit bull owner/rescuer MD Stovalli left this comment:
Dear Joshua... as a Pit Bull lover and Founder of a Pit Bull Rescue you need to check you facts before using them in the heading of an article. Pit Bull advocates have created their own myths and or chosen to emit the full truth. The ATTS was never meant to measure aggression but balance to see if they can be put to work. Most dogs fail for lack of confidence, not aggression. The ratio of Pit Bulls to those other dogs is 1/28. And Pit Bulls are not for everyone and require a great deal of of work, knowledge, and responsibility. You, see all these people on the dog shows having problems with little toy dogs, imagine if they chose a dog like a Pit Bull, not good! While the article is great, not mentioning the hard truth is misleading. Advocates stress responsibility, you can't be responsible without addressing their tendency for dog aggression. Just because we pretend it's not there doesn't mean it will never surface. It's a great dog but the owner needs to be fully engaged.
click HERE for the whole scoop on the flawed ATTS.
i would also like to take this opportunity to express my admiration & gratitude to dogcentric. in the battle of on line comments, dogcentric is second to none.
17 comments:
A responsible pit bull advocate and RESCUER! AMAZING!
Just a couple years ago pit bull advocates and rescuers generally had this view.
Now, if you go to BADRAP, you will find Donna has dogs for adoption that are less than a year old and not only does she assure you that the dog is good with kids and dogs, she also says she thinks the dog NEEDS to have other dogs in the house. Way to go.
And I second the admiration for dogcentric.
It is moments like this that give me hope for the pit bull breed and advocates out there. These nutters need to understand that the more you lie about the wiggle butts, the more enraged society and victims will become and the more harm they will inevitably do, which is almost always supported and caused by a pit bull advocate.
All people want is for the pit bull society to acknowledge inherent truths and take responsibility for their dogs. I'm sure if every pit bull owner properly cared for their animals, enforced BSL or dog laws upon their breed, and made sure not everyone got their grubby hands on these mutants mauling and deaths will dramatically drop and not as many pit bulls will be exploited.
But that's applying too much common sense, is it not...
Mail Delivery shut down in Tehachapi due to a Pit failing the Real World Temperment Test:
http://www.tehachapinews.com/content/mail-delivery-ashe-village-stopped-until-new-boxes-complete/33403
The net drain on society continues...
Kudos to dogcentric for the very clear and intelligent posts.
I also want to highlight the following, taken from one of dogcentric's posts. I have emphasized the part about potential adopters being lied to (repeatedly!) by shelter workers and rescue angels when it comes to pit bulls in shelters.
I have seen this lie being repeated by far too many shelter volunteers far too many times. In fact, this is the primary reason why I stopped volunteering at the local animal shelters and made me look deeper into the issues surrounding pit bulls. What I found was that this is a very dangerous lie which keeps both people & their pets getting killed. (Why rescue angels & their ilk keep repeating this lie still escapes me.)
There is a reason why most pit bulls in shelters are going to be over the age of two, and it isn't because they haven't found the right loving "forever home".
Anyway, dogcentric sums it up best:
"Also, if you go to a shelter who promotes a six month old, or one year old or two year old pit bull as being "good with other dogs," know that you are being lied to. Virtually all pit bull puppies are "good with other dogs." They don't "turn on" to do aggression until they are (typically) at least 18 months old. Pit bull experts tell you to not adopt a pit bull if you have another dog unless you realize that you may have to "crate and rotate," the dogs. That is, it is possible that you can NEVER let a pit bull interact with the other dog and each dog has to spend (at least) half its time in the crate. Not fun, but it beats death, I guess.
Just another consequence of pit bull dog aggression, a temperament flaw that pit bull breeders refuse to see as a flaw."
I think this is one reason that rescue angels keep pushing the pit bulls. They can get huge monetary incentives to do so.
http://www.maddiesfund.org/resource_library/solving_the_pit_bull_problem.html
@snack sized dog: Thank you for digging that up. Yes, follow the money - now it all makes more sense.
The article nauseated me, just thinking of all the poor unsuspecting families who are having these grippers foisted on them. Simple, good hearted folks, trying to help a dog, and they end up with a ticking time bomb. How many families will be shattered when the mutant dna manifests?
The financial angle sheds a light on why these pit bull advocates are so dense: "It is hard to convince a man of something, when his salary depends on him not understanding it"
I like that quote Jake! I've heard it before but had to look it up, Upton Sinclair!
@Jake -
Your article influenced me to do more research on the ASPCA's policies thoughts on pit bulls and my is it quite disturbing.
http://pitbullchatter.blogspot.com/2011/02/aspca-doing-right-by-owners-pit-bulls.html
While it is amazing that a pit bull rescuer said those things, and I salute him, the biggest problem are still the bigwigs like the ASPCA and Best Friends.
Especially when you look at Badrap.... they're having a special coming out on pubic television about their sanctuary and pit bulls in general. The article even states they hope the fighting aspects of the dogs are sterilized by the director.
I just hope this man helps promote the truth on these organizations like he did with the ATTS. But his comment gave me hope.
Oh dear! I've was reading too fast and got lost in the comments of the original story.
I totally lost the main thing - the ATTS!
I have not ever heard of a pit bull advocate to criticize the ATTS.
This IS a huge step forward and on top of the ATTS. Hopefully that myth will be totally crushed real soon!
set the facts right, pitbulls do not have a locking jaw, I WISH MINE DID, however they dont, you guys need jobs.
the only one to mention locking jaws is you. are you sure you are in the right place?
Anonymous 4:30pm: They may not have "locking jaws", but they certainly do not just bite and flee the scene.
As far as the ATTS statistics go, I have known they were flawed for a very long time. Why ? Because the percentage given is not an accurate percentage of pit bull POPULATION. Not only that, people have to pay to have those tests done on their dogs, and that is where those statistics are from. Do you think people with knowingly vicious pit bulls would pay for their dog to fail that test ?
Having said that, people should not be pushing these dogs out into the general public. Pit bull rescues should stop promoting these dogs as "just like any other dog" or quoting flawed statistics. Pit bull advocates also seem to be under the wild impression that we are missing out on the loyalty and love that they have to offer. I am not missing out on anything that no other breed could not provide, especially with such a general term like loyalty and love.
But my MAIN point about the ATTS statistics is that they cannot convince me or anyone else that that percentage they quote is an accurate percentage of pit bull population, because those who have knowingly dangerous pit bulls, are those who won't get tested, so that percentage they quote is useless for the most part and shouldn't be taken seriously.
(Sorry, no way to edit once posted, so I had to delete the comment and re-post - Jake)
@ Anon 5:58
Even if the pit bulls weren't cherry picked, carefully groomed and coached for the ATTS testing, I would like to stress the fact that the test itself says nothing about the likelihood of a dog to maul a family member, a neighbor, or an innocent animal.
From what I can see (my degree is in computer science, not animal behavior, but I can observe and think logically) the test measures the boldness quotient, and it's no surprise that a gripper could score highly on such a test.
NB a higher score does not mean a more well adjusted dog, and despite what Adrien Phipps claimed, it does not mean a less aggressive dog. A higher score means only that the animal is bolder than one scoring lower on the test.
What has the boldness of the grippers done for the world? I dare say we'd have seen fewer people and animals killed or maimed by pit bulls if only the pit bulls had been a bit less bold!
If you kill of the Pit Bull type dogs then criminals, who only want Pit Bulls for their intimidating appearance, will get another breed and mess it up. Spay and neuter Pit Bull types that show unprovoked aggression but only allow the ones who show desirable temperaments to breed. By desirable temperaments I mean dogs that don’t growl at everything and would only attack if someone was trying to kill or rape their owners. Now I am not ashamed to say this but I love Pit Bulls. I love them along with Dobermans, Rottweilers, German Shepards, Mastiff type dogs, Dogo Argentines, Great Danes, Persa Canarios, Alaskan Malamutes, Husky type dogs and Can Carsos. All of these dogs are considered vicious and savages breeds not worth living. What people fail to notice is that the more “popular and friendly” dog breeds are becoming more aggressive. Of course while irresponsible owners continue to abuse Pit Bulls the fear is directed towards Pit Bulls. I don’t care how many people give me the stink eye just remember al the other dog breeds that have killed people.
Now I don't agree with adopting or rescuing dogs that have attacked people or animals unprovoked. That is risky anyway no matter what breed. Now while you are complaining like a bunch bratty children about Pit bulls why not talk about the Golden Retriever that killed it's owner for no reason. But I’m sure you going to say the dog didn’t mean it but if it was a Pit Bull you’d be ready to form a lynch mob.
http://wn.com/Golden_Retriever_euthanized_after_killing_owner
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/bulletins_read/151207.html?pagen=1
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_396850.html
http://www.wboc.com/Global/story.asp?S=10769319
http://ourdogs.co.uk/News/2010/Jul2010/News020710/collieattack.htm
http://www.dogmagazine.net/archives/633/labrador-kills-child/
http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Articles/OtherBreedBites/2010/Februrary/st%20bernard%200210.pdf
http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Articles/OtherBreedBites/2009/December/Toddler%20killed%20by%20Weimeramer%201209.pdf
http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Articles/OtherBreedBites/2009/October/collie%201009.pdf
http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Articles/OtherBreedBites/2009/August/Dalmation%200809.pdf
http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Articles/OtherBreedBites/2009/August/Golden%20Retriver%20kills%20small%20dog%200809.pdf
http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Articles/OtherBreedBites/2009/July/black%20lab%20mix%20banned%20from%20city%20after%20unprovoked%20attack%200709.pdf
http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Articles/OtherBreedBites/2009/July/black%20lab%20mix%20banned%20from%20city%20after%20unprovoked%20attack%200709.pdf
http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Articles/OtherBreedBites/2009/January/woman%20bit%20stopping%20Alsatian%20%20frm%20attacking%20her%20staffy%20bulls%200109.pdf
Still think only Pit Bull type dogs are savage attackers? In this last link a Pit Bull saved his elderly owner from two vicious dogs.
http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Articles/OtherBreedBites/2008/May/Pit%20bull%20saves%2066%20yr%20old%20owner%20from%202%20attacking%20dogs%200508.pdf
@Lycan Princess -
Your answer template is so tediously overloaded with detail that I'm not going to attempt to address each one of the references, but I will say that none of them proves what you think it proves.
To comment on one in particular; you said: "Still think only Pit Bull type dogs are savage attackers?"
Well, no, I never thought that. As the 18 year dog attack study by the animal people shows, any large dog can inflict injury. But here's the ting: when 5% of the dog popultion (pit bulls) kills and maims more people than all the other 95% combined, we have a real problem.
You also said: "In this last link a Pit Bull saved his elderly owner from two vicious dogs."
It's a toss of the dice. Pit bulls love to attack, maul and kill, and it's not surprising that it would attack these dogs. But don't count on that sort of thing - we've seen that while a pit bull may well attack a dog that comes into it's house (or neighborhood) it's equally likely to turn on the owner at that point, or even stand by and watch the owner be mauled. If you want a dog for protection a GSD or an Akita would IMHO be much more loyal and reliable than these any of these mutant grippers.
according to lycanprincess's google profile, she is a horse lovin/dog lovin teenager who will start blogging when she gets her very own pit bull so she can keep everyone apprised of its "progress".
i suspect that she also suffers from bipolar or ADHD. she doesn't actually READ the blogs, she has been spamming the comments by cutting and pasting the same long winded tirade about a dozen other breed attacks on humans that occurred over the last several years as some kind of PROOF that all dogs attack other ANIMALS i guess. i don't think she has the intellect or maturity to carry on a meaningful debate. she only has the berkey talking points memorized or copied in her clip board. i sent her an email. i suspect that i will get a reply when someone can interpret it for her.
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