Monday, February 25, 2013

Best Friends Finds the Pit bull

Pat Dunaway has written a fantastic article about the Utah Cult - Best Friends, over at opposing views. you don't want to miss it.


236 comments:

1 – 200 of 236   Newer›   Newest»
snarky said...

if money is passing hands so that dangerous dogs can be placed in homes instead of being properly euthanised , then it is blood money and dirty money, from being handled by filth. the idiot rescue people cannot see beyond the saving of an unworthy dog to the injury and death of an innocent and worthy pet or animal. or perhaps they see but dont care what they do because for them its only what they want that counts for anything . like i said , filth.

Jim Reeve said...

This is too common. I mean, pi bulls are ugly anyway. They're not soft or cuddly, and they're obviously dangerous. So why bother having one?

scorched earth said...

WOW! This breaks new ground, shameless hucksterism wise, even for Best Friends.

Creative marketing for aggressive animals gives us a phrase like "can't tell the difference between a stuffed toy and a small animal" you can bet this one has left a trail of dead cats.

Other dangerous dog bios make reference to extreme jumping skills, "joyous" jumping on humans, and diseases found in actual fighting pit bulls.

Many of the bios give a timeline indicating these dogs have been in the rescue system for YEARS. There is clearly a reason for that, the same reason that Ledy is willing to pay airfare to ship them out of Utah, putting the residents of some other community at risk. There is no indication that insurance is required.

All this risk comes free, and delivered right to your door.

Regulation of the rescue industry is long overdue. Violent dogs are handed to young women who are killed by them. Violent dogs are trafficked across state lines to communities without notification. These same dogs go missing from the facilities that were supposed to safely contain them for the rest of their natural lives. Thousands of dollars are raised to save, "rehabilitate" and rehome violent dogs that failed their real world temperament test. A change of address does not change the danger posed by these violent animals. Breed specific advocacy has never donated a single cent toward payment of the medical expenses of a violent dog mauling. The peaceful public must be protected.

tropical storms said...

These dogs are exactly what they were bred to be. No amount of love, understanding, training or patience can or will have any impact on this any more than it will change their coat color. I believe these people do know this, they just don't care.

orangedog said...

I hope they get their asses sued off for every one of these aggressive dogs that ends up killing a pet or mauling someone. Because it will happen. They don't give a shit and need to have some serious judgments slapped on them.

And how is that dog with no nose even alive? How can that ugly thing even eat?
I can imagine the stupid rescue angels cooing over that fighting dog. "Look at that sweet face. I just want to huggles him."
Blech.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Orangedog,

"And how is that dog with no nose even alive? How can that ugly thing even eat?"

It's a pit bull thing, we'll never understand or get used to seeing things like this.

Pit bull owners lack empathy so if their mauling machine does kill another dog or human, they immediately start making excuses. I don't think I've ever read an "I'm sorry" from a pit nutter, online or in real life.

TreeC said...

We've seen many I'm sorry's from these sick people. All in the form of, "I'm sorry for that (fill in the blank. Man, woman, child, dog, cat etc.
and then the BUT...)I'm waiting to hear from more people, "Wow! I was so very wrong!"

I fluctuate between hope and despair.....

vintage said...

GREAT PIT BULL "SHE SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED WITHIN TEN MILES OF A LEGISLATIVE SESSION" MOMENTS IN HISTORY::

Ledy Van Karnage relives her childhood experience with pit bulls:

“I remember jumping into the middle of a dog fight when I was 6 and pulling Boody off another dog because someone had called the police,” Van Kavage recalls. “I didn’t want the cops to shoot my dog.”

http://cravendesires.blogspot.com/2010/09/wizard-of-pit.html

This was not a normal childhood.

*Disclaimer..You Can't Make This Stuff Up!

Sputnik2009 said...

One commenter at this article had already picked up on the chew toy confusion. Amotion Dfs makes up stories that will convince us of her deep knowledge, then she says:

"It is my guess the kid was overplaying with the dog (to where the puppy thought he was a play toy and was not attacking him yet thinking his leg was a rubber chew toy."

I swear...if they made an IQ test mandatory for owning a pit bull type dog, that would solve 95% of the problem right there.

Sputnik2009 said...

Sorry, forgot to put the link in my comment above:

http://www.gastongazette.com/news/local/dog-bites-prospective-owners-at-animal-shelter-1.100398

orangedog said...

Pit bulls must be the dumbest dogs in the world if they confuse legs and other body parts for chew toys. This contradicts the nutters that say they are SOOOOOO smart.

My dog, NONE of my dogs, have ever attacked me instead of a toy. Their excuses are pathetic and idiotic.

Sputnik2009 said...

Come to think of it, it seems a lot of academics also think dogs are too dumb to know the difference between plastic and us. In a common behavior test (developed at a university), they use a plastic doll about three feet tall to test how the dog reacts to children. They use a stick with a plastic forearm and hand on the end of it to see whether a dog will bite a human hand that comes near the bowl while the dog eats. In some places they then try taking away a pig's ear with the same plastic hand.

I get not wanting to risk your own child or hand, and I'm sure this tests something...just not sure it tests how a dog will react to real children.

Your Quiet Neighbor said...

OVERPLAYING with the dog? How does one do that? Is this a new word I need to add to my vocabulary list?

dawn james said...

i noticed that dingbat sterling chu who was working with tomtom and graciepoo, also focused on calming her when she got too excited. maybe they consider that "overplaying".

human flesh, plastic toys, towels, cars, chain link - they are all the same thing to a mutant..

S.K.Y. said...

I agree that dogs don't react the same to dolls as they do to real kids.

However, I have owned and used the Assess-o-Hand that was mentioned. They are made and sold by Sue Sternberg, who is definitely one of us (anti-mutant), and whose career has been spent trying to get only safe dogs adopted and euthanizing aggressive or even questionable dogs.

I don't know if the dog thinks it's a human hand, but they seem to react to it the same way they'd react if you really stuck your hand in there and tried to move their food bowl or take away their pig's ear.

I've used heavy gloves on my real hand, and this elicits the same response as the Assess-o-Hand.

In both cases, dogs that had previously bitten their owners over food, also attacked my gloved hand or the Assess-o-Hand, and with the same level of force.

The Assess-o-Hand might not perfectly imitate a naked human hand, but it works great for immediately weeding out dogs that are food-bowl or possession aggressive.

Packhorse said...

I read both the 2001 book, "Best Friends: the true story of the world's most beloved animal sanctuary", and their 2009 book, "Dogtown : tales of rescue, rehabilitation, and redemption."

BF goes from not even mentioning pit bulls at all in 2001 to spending about a third of the 2009 book harping on nutterisms. If they printed a book this year, I'd guess it would be all pits, all the time.

It's interesting how BF went from a shady but basically harmless animal sanctuary to the lobbying arm of Pit Nutters, Inc. in a few short years. I'd love to see the backroom deals and weirdness that no doubt led to this.

dawn james said...

Paackhorse, part of the switch likely had to do with the fact that they are shrewd buisnessmen and saw the writing on the chipin wall. another part is due to LEDY VAN KAVAGE.

8f57896c-9857-11e1-91d6-000f20980440 said...

Sorry for the huge link. There is a webinar tomorrow about dangerous dogs. It's put on by the good people that stick up for pit bulls. Keep fighting the good fight for fighting dogs! To hell with everyone else. Especially victims.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:Z-6I2FWm1GAJ:www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/events/tort_trial_insurance_practice/2013/02/dangerous_dogs_updatelitigationlegislationandliability/flyer_2013feb_animal.authcheckdam.pdf+LEDY+VAN+KAVAGE&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiP6EhNf8epCVnT5h2XUbeUr6YTsgamSYkQn3SFHSkQbTjT05c_bO9o7YuP_j5TQ2Era3c7aUrbTyZFBpoZn0QMyBQhiz9UFH6UoWoTrRrBGR-ID-VsIarn4taeJoT6AGWS3_uH&sig=AHIEtbSJxLh4HHrLWbPYl3QNCKPl_sfiFQ

dawn james said...

you can always count on ledy van kavage being in the middle of brainwashing lawyers.

dawn james said...

here's a shorter link

orangedog said...

WTF? Are these people lawyers or dog lawyers??

It's all about breed discrimination and repealing those pesky dangerous dog laws so no one will get sued when their mauling machine does its thing. I'm just stunned. If they want a fighting dog then they should face the consequences when it bites or kills. I wish there was proof that these people are in the pocket of dog fighters. It is the only thing that makes sense.

Here's the line-up (there is a photo of a GSD at the top - not a bully, perish the thought!):

An overview of relevant cases, evidentiary challenges, unconstitutional ordinances, breed discrimination, and various procedural issues.
A discussion of the most recent controversial case, Tracey v. Solesky, which established a new standard of liability for landlords; the impact of the case; legislative actions following the case; and breed discrimination laws including new laws and the repeal of existing laws
Liability issues related to insurance including recent cases, industry trends and latest statistics
- See more at: http://www.americanbar.org/calendar/2013/02/dangerous_dogs_updatelitigationlegislationandliability/general.html#sthash.MA69In0h.dpuf

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Orangedog,

I'm told nobody can identify a GSD! Where's the DNA proof? LOL!!!!!

Pit nutters throw every bit of propaganda at the pit bull problem in hopes something will stick, even accusing other breeds of dog, coyotes, and even ladders for what pit bulls do.

DubV said...

"My dog, NONE of my dogs, have ever attacked me instead of a toy. Their excuses are pathetic and idiotic."

Most normal dogs, if in a fight with another dog, will allow their owner to pick them up or remove them from the fray without redirecting. Relatively intelligent, non-aggressive dogs seem to know that their owner is trying to assist them.

Freya said...

“Here's the line-up (there is a photo of a GSD at the top - not a bully, perish the thought!)”

Yes, GSD…that’s shocking. Everyone knows that GSDs aren’t discriminated against, right?

“I started a search early so I wont be overwhelmed when I graduate. Its heartbreaking though that I can not own a German shepherd in any apartment in Atlanta, except for maybe one but the place is disgusting. I already know I'm doomed to apartment life for the next 5 yrs and really don't want to wait that long to get a dog. Besides the dog will be leaving with me everyday to go to work with me.”

-http://www.dogster.com/forums/german_shepherd/thread/628624

-Hm, that seems awfully familiar. Not being able to get an apartment because of the breed of dog you own.

“We found out about a month ago that we are moving to Florida. I was SHOCKED to hear that German Shepherds are on the list of "dangerous dogs". Many landlords will not rent to you if you have a Shepherd. And homeowners insurance is apparently very difficult to get if you own this "dangerous breed" in Florida. (Luckily, our insurance company does not consider my dog "dangerous".)

I knew that "pit -bulls" were on the list. And I had heard that Rotties had been added. Now Shepherds? How many more dogs are they going to add to the "dangerous breed" list?”

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/dogs/994800-german-shepherd-ban-pitbulls-labrador-bulldog.html#ixzz2M7c9v87w

-What a shame.

“Anybody here anything about GSDs possibly being banned in WI? I heard that first it was anything with "pit" or "bull" in the name, then Rotties, GSDs, and finally Dobies. Anybody know anything about this?”

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/current-dog-affairs/168410-wi-gsd-ban.html

-GSD owners upsetting themselves about a supposed ban in WI. Weird…everyone knows that GSD owners don’t have to worry about this stuff. It’s just a problem for the stupid nutters and their ugly mutants. Obviously these people are delusional.

Freya said...

“This is seriously insane! We will all end up in Africa or something with our GSD's because everyone wants to ban them”

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-information/132795-insurance-breed-ban-towns-ban-breeds.html

-That’s actually quite hilarious. It’s also quite funny that a problem that NEVER impacts GSDs is so readily talked about on the German shepherd forum. So odd.

orangedog said...

You are pretty clueless. Who said GSDs aren't impacted by BSL? I was just mocking their use of one since the webinar is clearly aimed at protecting Pits.
Any dog breed that bites a lot is going to end up "discriminated" against. A lot of GSDs are poorly bred, neurotic, reactive messes so they are a liability risk.
So LOL yourself.

dawn james said...

thank you orangedog. i started to respond and then deleted it.

Freya said...

“You are pretty clueless. Who said GSDs aren't impacted by BSL? I was just mocking their use of one since the webinar is clearly aimed at protecting Pits.”

Obviously not or they wouldn’t have bothered to put a picture of a GSD on the top. There’s no need to hide the purpose and if it was just for Pit Bulls they would have made that clear. It’s to inform the public about ALL breed specific legislation and concerns all dog breeds targeted including pit bulls but not limited to pit bulls.
Guaranteed those same people who own GSDs and are concerned about breed bans would be listening in just the same as pit bull owners.

What am I clueless about exactly? The fact the people besides Pit Bull owners might be interested in something like that? No, that would be you.
Regardless, my only point was to basically state that such things aren’t only a concern for Pit Bulls and impact other breeds. Glad to know you admit that. So maybe than you should listen in and hear about the impact it has on your own breed of dog.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Orangedog,

I was being sarcastic, YES, that is a GSD in the photo.

I don't need a DNA sample to identify a GSD. ;)

Freya said...

Just to make myself perfectly clear, I’m not trying to start an argument. It’s just frustrating to know that people on here own a “dangerous” dog breed that can be impacted by such things and see those same people seem to show no concern at all about that fact. If I didn’t own a pit bull and owned a GSD you can be damn sure I would still be concerned about what laws were going into effect concerning certain breeds of dogs. I wouldn’t just be like, oh that’s obviously pit bull propaganda and just throw it to the side. If they clearly state they are going to be informing people about laws impacting all “dangerous” dogs and my dog breed was considered such I would be interested in hearing what was being said at the very least. Even if I wasn’t planning on doing anything about it. Just so I could at least know what I could possibly be dealing with.

70dd0968-b7d2-11e1-92d9-000bcdcb5194 said...

Freya -

I owned and loved an Akita. If the only way to get Pits out of my life forever was to also wipe Akitas off the face of the earth, I'd do it.

Show me where to sign.

That dog loved people and loved other dogs, but was deadly to nearly everything else. I kept it in 100% confinement 100% of the time. ONCE the confinement failed and it killed my cat in front of me. If it had been my neighbor's cat, I would have shot the Akita on the spot, paid whatever my neighbor asked and still wouldn't have felt right about it.

I swore I'd never own another, because I just don't want to cause another family that kind of pain.

This is what it means to be responsible with a dangerous dog. Until Bully panderers step up to the plate and show that kind of responsibility 100% of the time, we need BSL. If it sweeps up Aktias and Rotts and others, the RESPONSIBLE owners will take the appropriate measures. The rest of you will simply whine.

orangedog said...

Rumple, I got your sarcasm, don't. Worry. ;)

I don't own a dangerous dog and never will, but if I did I would be pushing these idiots to step up and start policing themselves. Since they won't, well everyone can point and blame the nutters. It's all their fault as far as I'm concerned.

orangedog said...

That should have been "don't worry". My phone is a moron.

dawn james said...

freya, you are just too naive or dishonest to debate. do you really believe the pit bull industrial complex posts other breeds like GSDs on stories about dangerous dogs because all dogs bite? you are an idiot if you do.
the reverse is also true. they post photos of pits on stories about non pit heroes (kris crawford comes first to mind) so that you associate pits with the good & the positive and non pits with the bad & the negative on a subconscious level. plus they hope you will not dig any deeper like me and the readers of this blog.

recently i saw a story about a military dog hero that passed away. it was on petfinder. the dog's name was Gabe. petfinder included a photo of a puppy that appeared to me to be a pit mix. when i clicked on Gabe's page, i see a purebred labrador retriever.

Freya said...

“This is what it means to be responsible with a dangerous dog. Until Bully panderers step up to the plate and show that kind of responsibility 100% of the time, we need BSL. If it sweeps up Aktias and Rotts and others, the RESPONSIBLE owners will take the appropriate measures. The rest of you will simply whine.”

-It sounds like what you talking about aren’t breed bans but more likely the dog being deemed “dangerous” in certain areas. I don’t mind that so much, I just think it’s important for people of those breeds to be on top of what’s going on as far as their breed is concerned.
I honestly think in areas where pit bulls are a serious problem and dangerous dog laws aren’t enough to keep the situation under control it should be mandatory for them to be contained safely and wear a muzzle out in public. Even if they’re not dangerous, if that makes the public feel safer than so be it.

The BSL mention in the below post. Targeting dogfighters while allowing responsible owners to keep their pets and not putting dogs down just because of their breed is fine by me. It’s when pit bulls who are innocent dogs and loving family members are taken from their home and put to sleep for no other reason than the fact they are a pit bull, that’s when I get upset. It’s just not right.

If legislation is passed that allows responsible owners to keep their pets and dogfighters are targeted and certain laws are passed to instruct people how to contain their animals than that’s fine by me. Actually I think in some cases it really is necessary.

I think leash laws need to be enforced everywhere though. I don’t know how people live with dogs running loose in packs and all that nonsense. I’ve never lived in an area with that sort of problem and that’s just ridiculous.

That’s where I stand as far as BSL is concerned. I don’t like it. I understand it. I would prefer laws targeting ownership of dogs and breeders but that’s a hard thing to regulate and it’s hard not to hurt the reputable breeders while trying to target the bad so that’s not a likely solution. Otherwise, in certain cases I know it’s necessary and I agree with it under some cercomstances.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Freya,

I'm not too surprised about GSDs being excluded from apartment rentals. GSDs are large dogs ranging from 70-125 lbs.

GSDs are working dogs, most are high drive and went left alone, they may bark, whine, and howl when unattended. I lived in an apartment before and my neighbor mentioned my dog sometimes howled when I was gone. He's not a barker unless someone is near a window or door and I've never received a complaint about my GSD, ever.

The problem with pit bulls starts with the selection in breeding. You have to ask yourself, "What makes a good pit bull?" Pit bulls were bred for bull baiting and dog on dog combat. So ask yourself again, "What makes a good pit bull?"

GSDs on the other hand, are bred for herding and protection. A good GSD with minimal socialization should thrive in many environments. GSDs are one of the most versatile breeds around. Other breeds exceed in herding, scent, or protection, but you will be hard pressed to find a similar all-around dog.

The selection of breeding GSDs revolve around temperament, health, and herding ability. I do believe temperament trumps health regarding GSDs, as my first GSD, while extremely smart and stable, suffered from HD, EPI, and a few other things.

All my GSDs are predictable. They do not all act the same, but similar in temperament. All three I have raised show herding instincts. None of them are killers, but two are absolutely chasers. Their behavior is predictable and typical of the breed.

Ask yourself again, "What makes a good pit bull?"

70dd0968-b7d2-11e1-92d9-000bcdcb5194 said...

Freya-
What part of my post didn't you understand? Obviously, the part about 100% containment 100% of the time, EXCEPT...

That's teh problem, the BEST Pit owner can have an EXCEPT and then there's a dead, what? Cat? Dog? Kid?

Yeah, leash laws would make it impossible to work my Border Collies, even though they do have perfect recall, and THAT is a breed specific thing (Go ahead, find an Akita with perfect recall and I'll find away to prove you wrong. "Here kitty, kitty").

Oh, OH! And the other thing about leash laws is most Pit Bull owners either can't or won't train their dogs to walk on a leash properly. Bloody, fucking hell, "On Leash" is not always the same as "Under Control"!

dawn james said...

honestly, i can't tell if freya is dumb or playing dumb. i go back and forth.

dawn james said...

Oh, OH! And the other thing about leash laws is most Pit Bull owners either can't or won't train their dogs to walk on a leash properly. Bloody, fucking hell, "On Leash" is not always the same as "Under Control"!

that is my cue to remind everyone that MANY pit attacks occur by LEASHED mutants.

Freya said...

“What part of my post didn't you understand? Obviously, the part about 100% containment 100% of the time, EXCEPT...”

-I’m honestly not sure what part you think I didn’t understand? Could you elaborate?

I don’t doubt there are cases in which pit bull owners fail to train their dogs to walk on a leash properly but that’s not a breed specific problem. I’ve seen many a dog pulling their owners around behind them.

I was referring to places in which there is BSL saying a pit bull owner must always have their dog contained inside a home or a secure kennel and can only walk the dog outside on a leash WITH a muzzle in the previous post.

If the dog manages to get out in some way than it’s not going to be a random event but a failure on the owner’s part to follow the laws set in place. Which means the owner isn’t responsible enough or capable enough to follow such laws and own such a breed.

I don’t mind BSL such as that if it benefits the community and doesn’t kill innocent dogs. Actually those laws shouldn’t impact anyone who is responsible anyways. My dog is always kept inside, never allowed outside alone, or kept in a secure kennel for short periods of time to get some fresh air for a little while. Most responsible pit bull owners or dog owners in general, don’t trust to leave their dogs out alone in a fenced in enclosure. If not for worry about the potential danger the dog may be it is probably more about the safety of the dog. If the dog gets out there is always a chance of getting hit by a car, lost, or stolen. Then there is the worry about poisoning. My mother had her pet sheltie poisoned when she was a child by some angry neighbors. My sister had a terrier stolen from her when she tied it outside to the front of her house because someone supposedly thought it was abandoned. She was just letting the dog get some fresh air.

The only real difference would be the muzzle. It’s more of a danger to the dog because there is always a chance a loose dog could come up and attack your dog and there would be no way for it to protect itself. That would be the only issue with that.

Rumpel,
I expect pit bulls to probably have dog aggression or some sort of dog reactivity. Not to be human aggressive. Human aggression shouldn’t be acceptable or expected. I don’t think there is a connection between past breeders breeding for dog aggression in fighting dogs and human aggression.
I think it’s more or less the fault of money hungry idiots breeding any and every pit bull without a care in the world about temperament. As I said, I would love to see breeders regulated in some way.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Freya,

I don't consider any pit bull owner responsible for the simple fact that the pit bull's purpose is to kill other dogs. Who's to deny a surfacing of the pit bull's genetics as the major factor in dog fights and human maulings.

You might expect DA in pit bulls, but there's MANY pit nutters who think "It's all in how you raise them" and that is just not true. When their pit mauls, the excuses start flying from their mouths.

RESPONSIBILITY is the last thing a pit nutters possess.

tropical storms said...

If you love the breed you love the deed. Purpose bred dogs are their function. Labs retrieve, pointers point, shepherds herd.

dawn james said...

"I don’t mind BSL such as that if it benefits the community and doesn’t kill innocent dogs."

then selfish irresponsible people should not acquire banned breeds that lead to the killing of "innocent dogs".

please go start an education campaign for the nutters in denver who insist on selfishly violating the law that places their "innocent dogs" at risk.

dawn james said...

"I don't consider any pit bull owner responsible for the simple fact that the pit bull's purpose is to kill other dogs."

nicely stated

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Tropical Storms says, "If you love the breed you love the deed."

Pit bull owners who do not fight their pits are known as Dog Fighting Enthusiasts. ;)

Freya said...

“I don't consider any pit bull owner responsible for the simple fact that the pit bull's purpose is to kill other dogs. Who's to deny a surfacing of the pit bull's genetics as the major factor in dog fights and human maulings.”

So then what do you consider the owner of a dog breed known to have a high prey drive and to kill small animals including small dogs and cats?
Clue: Not talking about a pit bull.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Freya,

I attribute it to GENETICS. I've seen Min pins kill birds, snakes, and lizards because well, that's what they do! I believe Min pins have terrier in them and that's what they do.

Take Min pins, fight them, then take the "winners", breed them, rinse, and repeat for 20 generations. You'll find a high percentage of cute 12 lb. killers. It's not "all in how you raise them".

I know you're trying to target the GSD, but I will remind you, the subject is PIT BULLS and you only look to confuse and misdirect the issue.

orangedog said...

And prey drive is a bit different than hundreds of years of breeding the most animal aggressive pits over and over for an activity that is banned in all 50 states.

Freya said...

Rumpel,

I was referring to the owners not the breed. You said that you wouldn’t consider any pit bull owner to be responsible because they own a “dog killing” breed. I asked you what you would think about someone that knowingly owns a breed of dog known to have a very high prey drive to the point it’s been known to kill people’s cats and dogs.

I thought I had made it perfectly clear that I acknowledge the fact that genetics plays an important role in temperament? Perhaps I’m wrong. Although I find it hard to believe genetics is the only thing that plays a role. Aggression can be influenced by many things including environment. As well as neurological and hormonal influences. I don’t think it’s just a coincidence that most dogs that attack are intact males.

I was never trying to target GSDs. My point was that BSL doesn’t just impact pit bulls and their owners and any owner of a dangerous dog breed including GSDs should be concerned or at least educated about what laws are being put in place that may impact their dogs and themselves.

Orangedog,

“And prey drive is a bit different than hundreds of years of breeding the most animal aggressive pits over and over for an activity that is banned in all 50 states”

Obviously there is a difference between prey drive and aggression. That’s not anything I’m disputing. Regardless, I don’t think it really matters all that much to the people whose animals are being killed. Do you think it matters if someone’s small dog is killed by a dog that mistakes it as prey as opposed to just being a dog aggressive dog? I doubt it.

As Rumpel mentioned, terriers are known to have high prey drives. How do you determine if a pit bull is killing a cat or small dog out of aggression or because they view that animal as prey? Pit bulls, the real ones, are terriers. Therefore, they would most likely have a high prey drive.
What's the determining factor between aggression or prey drive in a case like that?

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Orangedog,

To make GSD prey drive a bit clearer I found this website that explains in some detail about the subject.

I pulled some thing out that are basically my beliefs also.

http://wildhauskennels.com/temperament.htm

"When we talk about temperament, we are referring to a collection of drives, thresholds, traits and instincts that are inherited and innate."

"Yes, it's true. Temperament is a function of genetics. It is inherited, not developed. A dog's core temperament never changes. Some behaviors can be modified through training, but the temperament itself never changes."

Prey Drive

"A GSD with low prey drive is a crime against nature."

"Prey drive refers to the dog's natural desire to chase, capture and kill prey. It is completely natural and forms the foundation for a wide variety of dog jobs, including Schutzhund, police K9, SAR, and many others."

"High prey drive dogs will not attack and kill humans unless there is some other pathological dynamic at work or the dog lacks sound DISCRIMINATION ABILITIES."

GSDs who do not have good discrimination abilities need extra training or may not be safe dogs. From what I've seen, very few will just go off on people, especially children.

On the other hand, there's pit bulls, who pit nutters grand claim "the human aggressive pits were culled" is just not true. Pits were bred for their killing capability and that trumped any other behavior the dog possessed.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Freya,

You can read my previous post and educate yourself on basically what prey drive is and how it works. Working breed drives are complicated and intertwined.

It's obvious the safety switch was removed centuries ago when it came to pit bulls which is what makes them unstable and dangerous.

bentonbergny said...

Freya, you GSD breeders are something else.

Yet again, another breeder positing panic over regulation that might affect them, or more honestly their cash flow

and yet you GSD breeders have bred these dogs into sorry genetic nightmares of hip dysplsia and countless other genetic meltdowns that all your specious "testing" can't do anything about.

You GSD breeders do nothing about the mills and other abuses that these dogs have suffered from because you are too focused on your narrow selfish affairs

Do you wonder why people have such a low opinion of breeders?

bentonbergny said...

I can tell you what Freya is doing.

Feigning agreement but then putting in the usual schtick protecting the breeders from responsibility and trying to convince people that breeders would get hurt by regulation, so let's just mouth a lot of empty nothingness about "education"




"I don’t mind that so much, I just think it’s important for people of those breeds to be on top of what’s going on as far as their breed is concerned."


Freya, you and your fellow breeders can't even stay on top of issues like GSD puppy millers. You can't even handle breeding healthy dogs that don't fall apart before they hit a year old.

You and your friends care about the nice cash flow and the play world of dog fancying and nothing else. The selfishness is incredible.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Bentonbergny,

Freya is not a GSD breeder, she's a pit nutter. While I'll admit there are unethical GSD breeders, the temperament and health issues are not as prevalent these days.

I've had GSDs and while one had health issues, his temperament was flawless.

Branwyne Finch said...

BSL will almost always target pit bulls and pit bull type dogs, because they are the breed driving the problems. This may serve as a shot across the bow to breeders and breed clubs of other breeds to increase their efforts at good breed stewardship. I think the breeders of old working breeds like GSD and Rotts will get the message. If data starts to show that Rotts or GSDs are causing problems in communities, the problem could be solved with minimal regulation...mandatory s/n of any unregistered dogs (UKC or AKC) That would get rid of the junk yard dogs and guard dogs that are typically the problem with those breeds.

And if BSL sweeps up Filas, Presas, Boaerbels, and other dangerous, rare breeds, who cares? Many of these breeds are flat out dangerous, are not suitable for pet homes, and are not being bred for any useful "work"...herding, livestock guarding, hunting, etc. You could ban or regulate Filas and probably not effect anyone in my town, or in a 20 mile radious of my town. Again, unless the breeders of Filas, presas, etc., make sure to keep their dogs "rare" and out of the pet community and animal rescue community, and don't allow breeding stock to fall into the hands of criminals, they won't have anything to worry about.

Freya said...

Bentonbergny,

I don’t know what the heck you read that gave you the impression I was a breeder. Considering I said I wish there was some way to regulate breeding that pretty ridiculous but okay.

BSL does not impact just breeders. It impacts dog owners who are unable to get insurance from certain companies and not allowed to live in certain places or even have to live by certain rules and regulations depending on the town they live. At the worst, dogs are taken from their homes and PTS just for the fact they’re a certain breed rather than their actual actions.

Rumpel,

“Freya is not a GSD breeder, she's a pit nutter”

Could you possibly be more immature? I’ve been absolutely civil with you and you have the nerve to start name calling. It is so childish. You can call pit owners nutters but if you’re commenting back and forth to a pit bull owner at least have some respect and discontinue the use of childish names when referring to a specific person. You don’t see me calling you names.

“You can read my previous post and educate yourself on basically what prey drive is and how it works.”

Educate myself? Well excuse me. Thank for the information but I don’t need to “educate” myself. I’m well aware of what prey drive is. You obviously are just trying to avoid my question because you seem stuck on the whole prey drive thing. What are you afraid of in actually answering me?

Let me ask you again, this time I’ll remove the words “prey drive” since you obviously don’t understand the basis of the question and can’t move past that.
You say that no pit bull owner can be responsible because they own a breed of dog known to be a dog killers. Now I ask you, what do you think of owners you own another breed of dog, besides pit bulls, that kill small animal, cats, and dogs?

The answer you should give is that you think they are irresponsible. Since it is your opinion that no responsible owner can own a breed of dog that kills other dogs. To say anything else would make you a hypocrite.

It doesn’t matter why they kill. Either way there is going to be a dead dog. Who cares why the dog killed the other animal. Does it matter if a dog kills another dog because it doesn’t like other dogs as opposed to considering that dog prey? Either way it is a killer who killed another animal. Either way it is a breed of dog known to kill other animals. End of story.

Also, there is always going to be aggression involved. Whether it’s aggression directed at a specific source such as another dog or aggression in the act of killing in and of itself. There is always going to be aggression involved when an animal kills another living thing. An animal killing another animal is always an aggressive act regardless of the reasoning behind it. Do you understand that? Dogs that kill other dogs are aggressive in the act of killing regardless of whether or not they are actually DA.

Packhorse said...

Pit bulls were not just bred to kill other dogs "in the past." They have been bred to battle in the fighting pit throughout their history, up to and including today.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Freya says, "Let me ask you again, this time I’ll remove the words “prey drive” since you obviously don’t understand the basis of the question and can’t move past that."

You speak of prey drive like it's a simple thing, a tell-all end-all about a dog's behavior. I'm saying it's complicated and intertwined. I have provided a resource that better explains prey drive and other aspects of the GSD.

Freya says, "Educate myself? Well excuse me. Thank for the information but I don’t need to “educate” myself."

You'd rather be ignorant and ignore the wealth of information I've graciously presented? Yes, you do need to EDUCATE YOURSELF.

Freya asks, "You say that no pit bull owner can be responsible because they own a breed of dog known to be a dog killers."

Yes Freya, pit bulls were bred for dog on dog combat. It's their main purpose and for that reason, I find pit bull owners IRRESPONSIBLE as soon as I see or hear about their frankenmauler. I stay clear because I know the mentality that accompanies pit bull owners.

orangedog said...

If I see a pit bull, I automatically assume it will try to kill my dog so I immediately turn around and get out of its line of sight. If I see a breed with a high prey drive, such as a GSD, I check to see if it's under control by the owner and I don't change direction.
I have had pit owners follow me on purpose with their mutant scrambling towards my dog. They apparently think it's funny. I lead them back towards my house and within reach of my SIG .40.

Freya said...

“You speak of prey drive like it's a simple thing, a tell-all end-all about a dog's behavior. I'm saying it's complicated and intertwined. I have provided a resource that better explains prey drive and other aspects of the GSD.”

No, I’m not trying to talk about prey drive which is why I’m not going into detail about it. I'm basically pointing out the fact that pit bulls aren't the only breed of dog that are "dog killers" and I don't really think a person with a dead dog is going to give a shit if another dog kills their dog because of prey aggression as opposed to dog aggression.
Just forget it. Obviously you just want to be difficult. I don’t need to educate myself about prey drive. I own a terrier, you own a GSD. I’m pretty sure I’m better aware of prey drive and the issues it comes with more than you are with a breed of dog that was never bred to use its prey drive to hunt and kill. Your GSD probably wouldn’t know what to do if it actually caught another animal. I was actually thinking of hunting (not birding) dogs and terriers more than a herding dog but whatever. Just ignore the question.

Obviously any dog breed that is known to kill other dogs is okay to own as long as it does it out of prey aggression rather than dog aggression. Good to know.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Freya says, "Your GSD probably wouldn’t know what to do if it actually caught another animal."

TWO of the THREE GSDs I've owned know EXACTLY what to do when they catch cats. They LET GO!

I never trained them not to kill small animals, it's what they do!

They only want to CHASE. It's called DISCRIMINATION. Yes, they key in on movement, their drive is triggered and the CHASE IS ON!

BUT, instead of tearing apart a cat, they try to hold it down and lick it. I realize it's traumatic for the cat but my GSDs, for whatever reason, don't BITE/MAUL/KILL. When the cat screams, my GSDs RELEASE, look at me either puzzled or shameful and come back to me. It's happened once for each dog and both times I was relieved my dog did not harm the cats.

Not saying a GSD will not kill small prey, but there is a SAFETY MECHANISM regarding the GSD's prey drive that seems to be built-in.

The lack of the SAFETY SWITCH is what makes pit bulls dangerous, had a pit bull owner made the same mistake, the cat would be DEAD. Pit bulls are supposed to kill other animals. GSDs are supposed to HERD animals.

There's the difference. Again, read the information I provided and quit trying to compare pit bulls to GSDs, it's a moronic thing to do since GSDs are in the HERDING GROUP and pit bulls are in the DOG FIGHTING GROUP.

Freya said...

“Freya says, "Your GSD probably wouldn’t know what to do if it actually caught another animal."

TWO of the THREE GSDs I've owned know EXACTLY what to do when they catch cats. They LET GO!”

I hope you know when I wrote that I didn’t mean to imply that a dog should KNOW to kill another animal when it catches one. I just meant, as a natural next step in the process in hunting prey a predator would know that it should kill it’s prey. Most dogs, unless they were bred to hunt and kill such as some hunting dogs and terriers, would most likely not know what to do with prey once caught. There’s always going to be an exception. There is a possibility a GSD could hunt down, catch, and kill another animal. Just not as likely as a dog breed that was actually bred for something like that as some other dog breeds were.

I’m glad to know your dog’s let go after catching a cat. I would hope most dogs would. Some breed would naturally just want to kill their prey because they were bred for such things. GSDs weren’t bred to hunt and kill so I would expect it’s not something most GSD owners have to deal with on a regular basis.

Again, I wasn't comparing Pit Bulls to GSDs. There are other breeds that are known to hunt and kill prey that would be more likely to kill a small dog more so than a GSD. They're are other breed that were bred to kill. Hope you know that.

tropical storms said...

If bulldog owners really wanted to legitimize their dogs they should petition the AKC/UKC to recognize a "fighting group " to go with herding group, hound group, etc. I wonder how long it's going to take the pibble people to realize how despised they are by the rest of the bulldog fraternity? It's these stooges after all who have brought down community wrath upon all bulldogs by being so public about the dogs. If their stupidity results in a total abolition of these breeds I'll be willing to forgive them their intentional obtuseness.

dawn james said...

i like your idea tropical storms. i would tweak it just a little to widen the net. i would suggest making the category GRIPPING dogs. dogs bred to grip bulls (bulldogs), hogs (dogos), dogs (amstaff, APBT, staffy bulls, tosa), people (presa, cane corso, fila, bullmastiff, boerboel, allaunts, bandogs).

tropical storms said...

Excellent move, I'll second that. I just lump all bulldogs (other than toy/mini) and derivatives there of as fighting breeds. It's just who they are.

scorched earth said...

A comment from Freya about someone else..." Obviously you just want to be difficult."

This is a mind numbing lack of personal insight from someone who claims to be headed toward a psych career. This is her purpose for returning to CD.

Freya makes my head hurt.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Scorched Earth,

Yes, Freya is ill-informed, stubborn, and tedious. They are popular traits of pit bull owners. She enjoys generalizing, misdirection, and placing blame on other breeds of dog.

Freya says, "They're are other breed that were bred to kill."

What she fails to realize is that pit bulls account for the majority of the problem.

Freya said...

“Yes, Freya is ill-informed, stubborn, and tedious. They are popular traits of pit bull owners. She enjoys generalizing, misdirection, and placing blame on other breeds of dog.”

Yes because we are ALL the same little robots programmed to feel, think, and say the same things. OH my, you didn’t know? Pit bulls are really aliens from another world trying to take over the minds of innocent people. Shit, they already got me.

“What she fails to realize is that pit bulls account for the majority of the problem.”

Actually answer me this. Don’t ignore the question. I expect since you KNOW everything there is to know about pit bulls and dog attacks you will be able to answer this question exactly right.

Explain to me what these statistics mean:

There are 4.7 MILLION dog attacks EACH year, right?

There are an estimated 800,000 THOUSAND people that seek medical care.

Now, what this says to me is that there are still 3.9 million dog attacks that never lead the person to seek medical care and can’t have been attacks by pit bulls. Obviously you know why. Pit bulls, when they attack, always create damage so there is NO way someone attacked by a pit bull would not go to seek medical care. Right? Unless you guys want to change up that story to make it fit.

Now even if pit bulls were responsible for every single one of those 800,000 that would mean that out of the 5% dog population of pit bulls, being 3.9 MILLION, only .8 attacks leaving the MAJORITY of pit bulls, 3.1 MILLION, not responsible for ANY attacks on people. Pit bulls make up more the 5% of the population by the way, but don’t worry I won’t call you out on that little lie.

Obviously they’re not responsible for 800,000 attacks even, they really only account for about 25% of the attacks that end up at the hospital or 200,000, or about that.

You said this before:

“It's obvious the safety switch was removed centuries ago when it came to pit bulls which is what makes them unstable and dangerous.”

Well, it’s obvious that the MAJORITY of pit bulls are not unstable and dangerous. The LOW estimate is 3.1 MILLION pit bulls which NEVER attack, EVER. Saying that they are ALL unstable and dangerous would make you the ill-informed one. The only thing you guys have going for you is in the way they bite and the fact that they can be DA. Which, honestly, the DA thing isn’t a problem for most responsible people and pit bulls aren’t the only dogs that can be DA. Hopefully, since you seem to have such a problem with DA dogs I would hope you never end up with one because you would obviously just have it PTS because you couldn’t handle it. That’s a shame.

Also, saying something like that make you a hypocrite. You own a dangerous dog and no dog is predictable. Take for instance the poor woman on a dog forum who just recently wrote about her bf’s GSD biting her son in the face when she went to take his son to the bathroom. Kid wasn’t doing anything except playing on DS on the couch and the dog just went up to him and bit him. Obviously predictable right? Oh and they funny thing.. People responded to her saying that you should never leave any child alone with any dog and that the dog probably just got scared if he kicked his leg or jumped up or something. Guess pit nutters aren’t the only ones with that BS propaganda now are they?

april 29 said...

Freya, the Cluster B queen, says "Obviously you just want to be difficult" but is blind to the fact that her observation fits her own behavior. She returned to CD for just this purpose.

I refuse to waste a single moment of my time reading her essays. Chaos rules her brain. I am sorry for her.

DubV said...

Freya,

This is your basic schtick.

Folks here are reasoning using statistical syllogisms. This is obvious. They are speaking of probabilities. You are casting this as them making absolute statements and speaking only of possibilities. You are applying deductive syllogistic logic to what are obviously probability statements. It is absolutely necessarily to stick to probabilistic reasoning when dealing with gray areas where boundaries are not crisp. You, on the other hand, exploit gray areas when you can but make sharp distinctions when it suits your argument.

This is why people are getting frustrated with you. You are being a weasel. You will not tackle the strongest interpretation of your adversaries argument, but instead move around like your argument is actually intrpretative dance.

This is your problem when you do not realize that the argument is that pit bulls (and a handful of other breeds) are MUCH more likely to be dangerous to other things than something like a GSD. There is a threshold of likelihood to be dangerous that is unacceptable and if you cross it with your dog breed choice, then you are irresponsible. I do not consider a GSD to be unduly dangerous to have near other living things. It was not bred to be both large, strong, and wanting to kill other living things, but pit bulls were.

Also, you are hung up on human fault, and again you are not realizing the implicit reasoning by probability. If a dog gets out of its enclosure and kills something, there were multiple factors that added to make this killing more or less likely. The dog's genetics plays an undeniable role. Similarly, a perfectly handled and contained tiger is safe, yet no one wants to live by one because if a very human and predictable mistake is made, then the results are more likely to be dire than in other situations. Tigers get out of zoo enclosures, and dogs get out of the best home fortresses. You are asking us to trust people who seem to be rather risk tolerant. I am glad that I do not live near you and your dog.

Please consider that you are emotionally attached to your dog and now trying to justify your decision and safe guard your dog. That is a human thing, but it does not lead one to be able to evaluate what is before them with even a hint of objectivity.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

April 29,

Yeah, Freya is difficult, ignorant, and tedious. She constantly tries to misdirect people to other breeds of dogs when it's pit bulls who are the danger. Then she refuses to examine the solid explanation of "prey drive". All indications of a pit nutter.

I read about pit bull attacks all the time, far more than any other breed of dog.

DubV said...

Freya,

If you want us to follow your mathematical reason, then maybe you should write out your equations explicitly.

Also, if you make judgement that only X% of pit bulls cause a serious injury, then you must have a threshold where above which you would consider them too dangerous to own. What would that threshold value be?

Lastly, there are obviously choices among dog breeds. Even if most pit bulls do not cause injury, why should we tolerate others owning a type of dog that is significantly more dangerous than other choices they could make? Also, I know the numbers are harder to find, but it is telling that you do not include death to other pets. Including all deaths by pits would significantly inflate your numbers.

Freya said...

How about this. I live in a state in which BSL is illegal. Where there has never ever been any fatality because of a dog attack. Where I can literally count the attacks by pit bulls on one hand. Large population of people, highly condensed, large population of pit bulls.

Just because you live in a shitty area with a pit bull problem and loose dogs ruining your lives does not make pit bulls are a problem everywhere. Deal with your own shit and stop bothering the responsible owners of these dogs. Or move to a better area. Stop trying to force your opinions on everyone. Stop acting like your intelligent people who know anything about pit bulls or any dogs.

Stop being hypocrites and owning dangerous dogs and stop associating with people that own dangerous dog breeds. Go shoot your Mastiffs and your GSDs in the head and go by a fucking lap dog.

You people are fucking disgusting with your bullshit propaganda and your bullshit statistics. Go light up your hippydippy blunts and sit around in a circle and lie to yourselves about how you’re making a difference and how when all pit bulls and bulldogs are dead there will be no more dog attacks or people being killed by dogs.

Stop flying to places where you don’t belong and fighting for BSL in places where you don’t fucking live. Mind your own damn business and stay in your own damn towns and fight for you beliefs there. Thank you.

DubV said...

"Where there has never ever been any fatality because of a dog attack."

I doubt such a place exists. Plus, you can't prove a negative of this type. There is no evidence of a past attack, perhaps, but even that is doubtful.

DubV said...

"How about this. I live in a state in which BSL is illegal. Where there has never ever been any fatality because of a dog attack. Where I can literally count the attacks by pit bulls on one hand. Large population of people, highly condensed, large population of pit bulls."

Sorry, I'm calling BS on this whole paragraph. Pit bull owners are not as informed about these attacks as we are.

What is the state?

DubV said...

OH! I just got it Freya. You were talking about your mental state, that fantasy land in which there is no BSL and pit bulls are gentle. Got it.

Freya said...

“This is your problem when you do not realize that the argument is that pit bulls (and a handful of other breeds) are MUCH more likely to be dangerous to other things than something like a GSD.”

No. I don’t deny that pit bulls are dangerous dogs. I don’t want everyone to own a pit bull. There are TOO many people owning these dogs that do NOT know how to own them responsibly. GSDs aren’t safe dogs to own. They’re known to be human aggressive. They’re the number one choice as a guard dog in Egypt. They’re my boyfriend’s favorite dog breed and all the dogs he owned did NOT like people they did not know. I consider Pit Bulls more of a danger to other animals than actual people. The way they bite is more dangerous than other dogs but as far as how many would actually attack a person, no I don’t think that’s something to really worry about with a normal pit bull.

I got stuck in a living room for a full night because my friends GSD would not let me past the doorway to go to the bathroom. Every single time I tried to step over him he growled at me. Why? He was guarding his owner who was in the upstairs bathroom was. I needed to go to the bathroom and the only one was upstairs where the owner was sleeping. I was literally trapped the WHOLE night because of that dog. It didn’t bite me but obviously they’re not good with people they do not know.

That’s dangerous.

DubV said...

"Stop acting like your intelligent people who know anything about pit bulls or any dogs."

The irony is strong in this one.

Freya, you should carefully edit sentences in which you insult another's intellect.

So you are a future pscyhe doc?

My past speculation is that you are going to school in a US territory (Virgin Island's medical school in an old Days Inn).

I'd love to see your entrance exam (GRE, MCAT, etc) scores.

Freya said...

“OH! I just got it Freya. You were talking about your mental state, that fantasy land in which there is no BSL and pit bulls are gentle. Got it.”

Cute. Go educate yourself. BSL is considered illegal in some states. Didn’t you know that? Since people are smart enough to realize that dog attacks are NOT a breed specific problem.

DubV said...

Hmm...you recognize that pit bulls are dangerous but you'd like to lump all dangerous breeds together, eh?

Well, there is one breed that kills the most, several times more each year than GSDs. You are wishing to lump together two rather different entities. You are frustrated that we see through this.

Oh, and your last screed about us smoking blunts? Freya, you might be in some professional school, but you are a dumb ass. Seriously. There are doctors that are not very intelligent, and you are trying to be one.

Freya said...

“ Sorry, I'm calling BS on this whole paragraph. Pit bull owners are not as informed about these attacks as we are.

What is the state?”

Since I did my research on fatalities on dogsbite.org I’m sure I have the same information you do. ;)

As far as attacks go, I google pit bull attacks and my state and found NADA, nothing. I have to look at least 20 minutes to find an old case. Just recently there was another one. Small child. You’re smart. Figure out where I live from that info.

Freya said...

“Hmm...you recognize that pit bulls are dangerous but you'd like to lump all dangerous breeds together, eh?

Well, there is one breed that kills the most, several times more each year than GSDs”

And you want to kill over 3 million innocent dogs because of the actions of a minority of them. Is that intelligent? Is that the way to fix the problem?

I’m not denying there is a problem. I want there to be a fix for it to. I’m just not going to be the ignorant person that thinks that killing millions of dogs because they’re a specific breed or type of dog or even just LOOK like a certain type of dog is the answer to the problem.

There are better answers. There are better ways to deal with the problem. Just because you don’t like the breed and you don’t give a shit if they exist or not doesn’t mean you have to be so uncaring as to whether or not you are hurting innocent animals that don’t actually deserve to die.

Freya said...

OMG I’m SO sorry. I lied. I just found a list of dog bite fatalities on wiki and there was a fatality in my state! Didn’t find it on dogsbite though. I wonder why? OH, I know! Because it was a husky that killed a little girl.

DubV said...

"And you want to kill over 3 million innocent dogs because of the actions of a minority of them. Is that intelligent? Is that the way to fix the problem?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-_sABor77E

Freya, when you are a mental health professional, are you going to listen to your patients or infer what they likely mean to do?

In other words, who the fuck here suggested killing every pit bull in the US?

I shudder to think that when I was younger I might've argued like you to support some pet cause.

DubV said...

Freya, you aren't a serious person.

Freya said...

“In other words, who the fuck here suggested killing every pit bull in the US?”

Then what do you want? What are trying to do? Because all I see written on here by people is how much they hate these dogs and want them off the face of the earth. There’s no talk of compassion about these dogs on here. There’s no concern about trying to make a difference for both the dogs and people.

I would love to see the breed and the people helped! I don’t want to see people being killed by ANY dog. That’s why I think it is important to realize that there are things that can be done that target DANGEROUS dogs that can help more so than just targeting one breed of dog specifically.

As far as them injuring other pets... Don’t you think I go around and try to write other places about how these dogs can be DA and need to be owned responsibly to prevent them from killing other people’s pets. Do you think I’m the type of person that goes out and recommends this breed to anyone? This breed isn’t for everyone. I wouldn’t be stupid enough to tell everyone to go rescue a pit bull just because I want to save the breed. It’s about certain types of people being capable of owning a dog like mine.

I do know how to own a pit bull. My dog is very well contained and would never possibly be able to hurt another person’s pet. There are other owner’s exactly like me that contain their pit bulls and own them in a responsible manner.
Then there are the people you hate that are trying to hand them off to anyone and everyone and say it’s how you raise and that’s that. Well that’s not me. Yet you put us all in the same box and label us the same way.

Freya said...

“Freya, you aren't a serious person.”

No glad you noticed. I’m really not trying to be all the impressive. Do you think that I think I’m really going to change anyone’s mind on here? It’s mostly for anyone that comes on here to read the comments with an open mind and because I’m the type of person that likes to argue.

Most opinionated people are. You’re the same way. All of you are. Why would you come onto a blog like this and continuously post comments and argue back and forth. You feel like you need to stand for something, you’re an argumentative person, and you want to feel like your life has some sort of purpose and this is it.

You’re the same as a pit nutter just in the opposite form. You’re the mirror image of what you hate.

DubV said...

"Then what do you want? What are trying to do?"

What do I want to do personally around this issue? Destroy irrational nutter ramblings that confuse and endanger.

DubV said...

"want them off the face of the earth"

Humans created the breed,and humans can stop breeding them. They could be gone in 20 years that way.

snarky said...

freya
ya , u might have a point there . i like my life and wud like to keep it , and my dog too,.....

DubV said...

"There’s no concern about trying to make a difference for both the dogs and people."

Most here are more concerned with the victims, past and future, than the nutters and their breed. Sorry that your inner fifis are ouchie.

DubV said...

"My dog is very well contained and would never possibly be able to hurt another person’s pet."

This is a false statement. You don't know the future and can't make statements about it with 100% surety.

DubV said...

"No glad you noticed. I’m really not trying to be all the impressive."

I've seen cats do this. They will fall on their ass and then walk away majestically as if they mean to do it.

"Do you think that I think I’m really going to change anyone’s mind on here?"

Again this is convenient. My mind has been changed many times by others. Your arguments are insufficient, however.

"It’s mostly for anyone that comes on here to read the comments with an open mind and because I’m the type of person that likes to argue POORLY."

Fixed it for you.

"Most opinionated people are. You’re the same way. All of you are. Why would you come onto a blog like this and continuously post comments and argue back and forth. You feel like you need to stand for something, you’re an argumentative person, and you want to feel like your life has some sort of purpose and this is it."

Fuck you. You don't know me or anyone else here well enough to analyze us. Your small amount of psych training is going to your head.

"You’re the same as a pit nutter just in the opposite form. You’re the mirror image of what you hate."

This is just so cliche, isn't it? If someone dislikes something, squint your eyes and say they are just like what they fight against! Instant points awarded for "deep thinking". It's bullshit Freya.

scorched earth said...

Freya, we want pitters to stop BREEDING pit bulls. Nobody suffers.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Freya says, "They’re (GSDs) known to be human aggressive."

The GSDs main working purpose is to protect livestock and humans.

The pit bull's purpose is to kill other dogs. I find that repulsive.

Freya says, "I got stuck in a living room for a full night because my friends GSD would not let me past the doorway to go to the bathroom."

ROFL! If the GSD is not familiar with you, yes, that is common behavior regarding GSDs and strangers in the home. You can take your piss when he takes his.

My 1st and 2nd GSDs will not allow guests on the 2nd floor. It's where we sleep. I didn't train him to do this, it's just what they've figured out on their own.

All my GSDs have shown herding behavior. Occasionally, when a guest leaves the home, they may try to nip their heels, accompanied by a growl. It's rare but they've all done this. Been friendly the entire time until they go to leave.

Nobody has ever been injured, not even a scratch, but it sounds horrible.

Freya says, "And you want to kill over 3 million innocent dogs because of the actions of a minority of them. Is that intelligent? Is that the way to fix the problem?"

Yes, because pit bulls are dangerous, and their owners are ignorant and dangerous.

Freya says, "There are better ways to deal with the problem."

BSL!

Freya says, "Just because you don’t like the breed and you don’t give a shit if they exist or not doesn’t mean you have to be so uncaring as to whether or not you are hurting innocent animals that don’t actually deserve to die."

It's a matter of not liking what pit bulls do, what pit bull owners do, and the lack of empathy for pit bull victims by the owners of pit bulls. Apparently many pit bull owners will gather to re-victimize a victim and that's disgusting.

tropical storms said...

She apparently doesn't read this blog too often. No one here is advocating taking anybody's sterile, vaccinated, completely contained dog from its home to be euthanized. Are there people who can safely keep and confine a bulldog? Of course there are, and their dogs are s/n and not in contact with other dogs or in a position to harm anyone. This is a very small group of people however. To that small group of people kudos. The question is what to do with the remaining 99% of bulldogs. My position is sterilize all who have such keepers and euthanize the rest. The pitbull problem solved and those who say they love these dogs should rejoice the end of their suffering at the hand of humans or languishing in shelters/rescues/ kennels and dog yards. I say again, no one wants to take your dog.

orangedog said...

Maybe psych is not your thing? You are so wrong about everyone. Smoke a blunt? That's more likely something hipster pit owners are in to.
Here's what I'd like to see happen with pits. I'd like to see breeding severely curtailed or stopped so shit like this isn't the norm:

http://urgentpetsondeathrow.org/dogs/

Look at all those pits! No one wants them and they die in record numbers! And we're the pit haters?? It's pit advocacy that's killing these dogs. Their zero tolerance bully tactics towards even the whisper of responsible breeding laws. It's disgusting.
And look at this group, dressing the pits up in doll clothes, and giving them away to anyone with a pulse. Is that responsible stewardship for a very strong and hard to contain breed? No. It fucking isn't. You assholes can't keep your problem contained so I'll mind my own business when pits are no longer in the news every freakin day.
And don't ever say "never". There are stories all over Craven of maulers leaping over 6' fences and breaking prison-like containment.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Orangedog,

Yeah, I've had a few people ask me to find them dogs from the city pound. 90% are pit bulls. Then there's the pit bull rescues hoarding even more pits. I thought I could get a good selection but since the shelters are almost exclusively pit shelters, it's tough to get a wide selection of dogs who are non-pits.

Makes things very difficult for anyone who doesn't want a pit but want's to adopt from a shelter. If they do want a pit, they will have a broad selection of mauling machines.

I can't explain why there are so many. Over breeding and poor/unexpected temperament problems?

Anyone here know how so many pit bulls end up taking up so much space in shelters?

Freya said...

“What do I want to do personally around this issue? Destroy irrational nutter ramblings that confuse and endanger”

Exactly me too.

The way you’re doing it is what I don’t like which is why I compared you to the pit nutters you hate. You’re all as bad as the pit bull advocates. They lie and you lie. They’re lies result in the death of innocents as do yours. You influence people to hate pit bull type dogs so they do things like go and shoot them with a bow and arrow and then post it up on facebook. Or influence them to be outlawed in an area so thousands of dogs are taken from their homes and killed for no reason. You think what you guys write and the things you say don’t have just as much as a negative impact in this world as do the lies told by the idiots of the pit bull world that try to make them out to be just like any other dog without mentioning the real responsibility that needs to go into owning these dogs? No, you’re not any better. If anything your worse because your bullshit results in a hell of a lot more death than theirs does.

Freya said...

“Fuck you. You don't know me or anyone else here well enough to analyze us. Your small amount of psych training is going to your head.”

I don’t need to personally know you or anyone on here. I know your type. Everyone is the fucking same. There are only so many personality traits in the world. There are millions of idiots just like you in this world. You’re not unique. You’re not some miracle child whose thoughts and opinions are one of a kind. You’re shaped by the people in your life, your environment, and your genetics. You are all the same because you all share the same dim witted opinions and don’t ever question one another. There’s never EVER any interesting insight shared. It’s all the same bullshit over and over and over again.

“This is just so cliche, isn't it? If someone dislikes something, squint your eyes and say they are just like what they fight against! Instant points awarded for "deep thinking". It's bullshit Freya.”

No because you work the same way. They have websites…look so do you. They fight for their beliefs with bullshit, oh my, so do you. Neither side takes a step back and forms an opinion on their own. You read other peoples shit and there you go. NO hard decisions. That’s the reality. That’s the way the world is. Black and white. THAT’S bullshit. I’m not that type of person. Hence why I grew up in a Christian family and was able to step back from the bullshit and form my own opinion. Hence why I can come on one of these blogs, read the information and actually believe some of it because it’s true. I’m not a biased person. I don’t look at either side and believe all the bullshit being said. I look at both sides and make an educated decision of the information presented.

All of you have failed to do that. You’re as much as a zealot as they are.

Freya said...

“Most here are more concerned with the victims, past and future, than the nutters and their breed. Sorry that your inner fifis are ouchie.”

Exactly. You know what’s absolutely pathetic about you mentioning that? You people are exactly the same. All you care about is pit bull attacks when the majority of people aren’t even getting attacked by pit bulls. Instead of trying to educate yourselves about other affective methods that affect ALL dogs and ALL owners that prevent a LARGER amount of attacks you only focus on a limited few, specifically pit bulls and their owners. You don’t care about the victims of other dog attacks. At least you don’t show that you do. I’ve heard so many stories about people going onto dogsbite with a story about being attacked by a different dog breed and they were IGNORED. WTF is that?!

I care about ALL victims, the majority being attacked from other dog breeds because of lack of knowledge and lack of GOOD and AFFECTIVE laws across the country.


So while most pit bull owners who are worried about BSL are looking for better ways to stop ALL attacks your busy wasting your time attacking them and their dogs.

orangedog said...

Oh yeah, pit owners are looking to stop all attacks - just like they're looking for ways to cut down on the mass quantities of pits that are bred every year. You seriously need to clean up your own backyard before you worry about other breeds.
900,000 pits killed every year... You are so full of shit.
The rest is just yap yap yap yap. Talk about wasting time.
I'm done with you.

DubV said...

Dunning-Kruger effect, thy name is Freya.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Freya says, "Hence why I grew up in a Christian family and was able to step back from the bullshit and form my own opinion."

Yet she thinks it's okay to own a breed of dog who's working purpose is to kill other dogs.

That doesn't sound very Christian to me.

Freya, it's apparent you also use a warped view of religion as a way to justify your ownership of a breed of dog who's purpose is to kill other dogs.

Isn't there a pit bull religion/cult you can join? It would be more in-line with your personal views.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

DubV,

"Dunning-Kruger effect, thy name is Freya."

LOL! So true.

Freya said...

"Oh yeah, pit owners are looking to stop all attacks - just like they're looking for ways to cut down on the mass quantities of pits that are bred every year. You seriously need to clean up your own backyard before you worry about other breeds.
900,000 pits killed every year... You are so full of shit.
The rest is just yap yap yap yap. Talk about wasting time.
I'm done with you."

You’re done with me because you have nothing intelligent to say. None of you did. All you did was insult me and ignore everything I wrote and turned it into something else.
I hope you know that intelligent people WILL read the blog and comment and know how stupid you people really are.

Just to be clear. They are looking for other LAWS to stop ALL attacks because they would rather those laws be put in place as opposed to BSL targeting their breed. They might not be doing it for the right reasons but it doesn’t change the fact, and yes it is an absolute fact.

The only way to stop the mass amount of pit bulls being bred would be to put restrictions on breeding which ALL breeders fight. I don’t know how many times I’ve seen on dog forums where people flip out at the mention of breeding restrictions because they believe it will only affect the reputable breeders because the bad breeders won’t give a shit about the laws anyways. You can’t expect us to do everything. All dog people should be trying to fight for breeding regulations. Pit bull owners can’t take on ALL the breeders in this country with trying to make laws against them. That’s a fucking joke. That’s like your attempt at getting BSL accepted in most places. NOT going to happen.

DubV said...

"Hence why I grew up in a Christian family and was able to step back from the bullshit and form my own opinion."

And you ended up with Wicca which is even less believable.

DubV said...

Freya, here is one reason why you calling us dumb just doesn't have any sting: you either think that general dangerous dog regulation is incompatible with BSL (both can coexist) or you assume that because this blog doesn't often discuss general dog reg. that no one here is in favor of it.

DubV said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
DubV said...

"You don’t care about the victims of other dog attacks. At least you don’t show that you do."

You are right. I should have listed in my profile all the things that I care about so that I would immune to this charge.

Freya said...

"Hence why I grew up in a Christian family and was able to step back from the bullshit and form my own opinion."

And you ended up with Wicca which is even less believable”
I’m not a Wiccan. Cute though.
Don’t turn this into a religious discussion. I will literally hand your ass to you. I can guarantee it.

I don’t believe in religion. It’s manmade bullshit. All have a bit of truth mixed in with lies. Kind of like the pit pull hater propaganda and the pit bull advocate propaganda. Kind of just have to dig through it to get to the good stuff that actually matters.

Also, it’s not less believable. What’s more believable, a god that kills everyone and everything because of his selfish need to be loved when he himself is supposed to be the embodiment of loving compassion and also sends people to burn for eternity OR a believe that people are sent to this earth to learn to be loving and compassionate so that they can return the a original source of all things through multiple times of reincarnation and lessons? Basically Jesus is the only way to having= being like Jesus is the only way into “heaven”.
That’s about the only bit of truth in the bible. The snake represents the Goddess and the fall of the Goddess religion. The first religions were those in which the Goddess was the main component not a god. People back then didn’t know men had anything to do with babies and thought that the woman was the only creator of life. Woman pretty much owned you men back in the day. The bible was man’s creation in attempt to end the Goddess religions and gain control over the women. You don’t want to have this discussion do you? It will be a long one.

DubV said...

" I will literally hand your ass to you. I can guarantee it."

Not possible. Freya, you undeservedly cocky bastard, I could stay up for 24 hours straight, drink a six pack of beer, and then proceed to outscore you significantly on any common standardized test meant to measure aptitude. I guarantee it.

Freya said...

“Not possible. Freya, you undeservedly cocky bastard, I could stay up for 24 hours straight, drink a six pack of beer, and then proceed to outscore you significantly on any common standardized test meant to measure aptitude. I guarantee it.”

You’re not a cocky bastard? Lmao, you know you’re actually kind of fun.

DubV said...

I stand correct on the Wiccan thing. Freya is a Norse goddess incorporated into Wiccan practice, I believe you used the salutation "Blessed Be", and your avatar is magic related. So I made a faulty assumption.

DubV said...

"Woman pretty much owned you men back in the day."

So more ancient cultures were uniformly matriarchal. You should clear up this confusion among anthropologists.

Freya said...

“I stand correct on the Wiccan thing. Freya is a Norse goddess incorporated into Wiccan practice, I believe you used the salutation "Blessed Be", and your avatar is magic related. So I made a faulty assumption.”

You’re an idiot. I said I don’t believe in any religion. What do you believe in? You want to start picking on someone’s personal beliefs about why the fuck we even exist? Wtf is wrong with you?

Are you so smart and rational about religious beliefs that you know what’s illogical and what’s logical? Atheist? Probably. Good. So we exist because the universe decided to explode. We evolved from monkeys and are purpose of existing is nothing. We don’t matter. We’re not shit and when we die we get put in the ground and eaten by bugs. Lovely.

“So more ancient cultures were uniformly matriarchal. You should clear up this confusion among anthropologists.”

So you don’t believe that’s true?

Look up the world’s oldest sculpture.

dawn james said...

"Anyone here know how so many pit bulls end up taking up so much space in shelters?"

because the reality of owning a cuddly wuddly pittie wittie is not in sync with the badrap/AFF/best friends propaganda.


Animal People: More adoptions will not end shelter killing of pit bulls

DubV said...

"People back then didn’t know men had anything to do with babies and thought that the woman was the only creator of life."

I don't know how you know with confidence the beliefs of cultures that did not have writing or other ways to unambiguously record their beliefs.

Prior to modern biological knowledge, would you agree that many societies figured out that sex caused pregnancy? Now, given that prehistoric humans had very similar cranial capacities to modern humans and markers of intelligence such as art and tool use, at what point did we become smart enough to figure this one out or existed long enough for cumulative experience to discern it?

Also, why is it that there are no credible reports of indigenous cultures of today that do not understand that a male is involved in pregnancy? Curiously, no matter what culture has been asked of this, anthropologists report that they know something of the workings.

Further, why are their ancient archaeological specimens that show things like a man and woman in a loving embrace followed by the mother nursing an infant?

You are uncritically reading selective sources.

DubV said...

"You’re an idiot. I said I don’t believe in any religion."

Um...I was conceding that I was wrong in ascribing a particular belief set to you. I don't know how I could be more clear about that one.

DubV said...

"So we exist because the universe decided to explode. We evolved from monkeys and are purpose of existing is nothing. We don’t matter. We’re not shit and when we die we get put in the ground and eaten by bugs. Lovely."

To reiterate a sentiment you expressed, you do not want to have a conversation about this with me. You've already used several lines of faulty reasoning just in those few sentences.

DubV said...

[“So more ancient cultures were uniformly matriarchal. You should clear up this confusion among anthropologists.”

So you don’t believe that’s true?

Look up the world’s oldest sculpture. ]

It would take a lot more than the world's oldest statue to convince of so bold and general a claim.

DubV said...

" We don’t matter. We’re not shit and when we die we get put in the ground and eaten by bugs. Lovely."

I'll pick at this because I think it reveals part of your machinations around pit bulls. Freya, outside of your sphere of influence (things you can change), how a proposition makes you feel has absolutely no influence on whether it is true or false.

70dd0968-b7d2-11e1-92d9-000bcdcb5194 said...

Freya-
Did you go off your meds again?

Maybe your friends are got fed up with your combative nature?

Not caring what others think, repeatedly believing knowing a little equates to being an expert and generally not caring when you've overstepped social bounds can also be an indication of too high a dosage, especially of antidepressants.

Perhaps you should see someone about that.

Have fun shadow boxing with this email, dear, I won't be back for a few days and it'll be interesting to see what you come up with.

Not.

Freya said...

“You are uncritically reading selective sources”

I’ve read both sides.

Anthropologists don’t believe there were any matriarchal societies. They just throw away the Venus sculpture as if it doesn’t mean anything except a sign of fertility. I know all that. I know that the reality is they probably knew what sex was but the reality is regardless of that the woman is the only one capable of having a child within her and giving birth and naturally that would make them feel more important, I would assume. So I believe there is a really good chance that they did consider woman more important and the creators of life. It’s the woman that gives life to the child. She’s the one that the body feeds off of to survive. A guy can get a woman pregnant but her body is what keeps the child alive and basically helps it grow. For even the most intelligent people in this day and age that’s still considered somewhat of a miracle. I would imagine back than it was considered amazing. Or maybe, who knows, the lack of intelligence might have made it something that wasn’t even thought about. I doubt that though. There is also a chance they just might not have known men had anything to do with it at that time. You’re talking about sculptures at a later date. There really aren’t any sculptures of men that they can find around the time period in which the Venus sculptures were made. So it is possible they just didn’t know at that time. Knowing how stupid men can be sometimes I wouldn’t be surprised ;). (Joking, by the way)

I’ve read some really good books on both sides. Maybe it’s because I’m a woman and I know what the religion of men did to this world that makes me lean more on the other side. There’s plenty of people, archeologist, esc that feel that there is more to the Venus statue than what other people just want to believe. I really feel like there is a great chance ancient, I’m talking VERY ancient, societies were more prioritized towards woman than men. Obviously the men were the hunters and took care of the woman and children but the woman have always really taken care of the men in most ways if you think about it.

The reality is no one really knows for sure. I believe that back then, in the times when those figures were made, it was a time when woman were respected more than in the following years when the religions of men and belief in god came about. I know that for sure. Women have always had a special place in religion. The priestess and goddess religions were extremely important and the Christian religion destroyed that, it destroyed a lot of things.

Either way your right. I shouldn’t write things as absolute fact. It is all speculation but there are reasons to believe it. As with mostly everything, nothing is black and white. There’s always a middle ground.

Freya said...

“I'll pick at this because I think it reveals part of your machinations around pit bulls. Freya, outside of your sphere of influence (things you can change), how a proposition makes you feel has absolutely no influence on whether it is true or false.”

So basically you’re saying how I feel about pit bulls and the fact that because I like them and care about them I’m influenced to believe that they’re not bad dogs and don’t deserve to basically be wiped off the planet? Whether by being PTS or just not being bred anymore, it doesn’t really matter how you want it done but you want them gone.

It’s not just about how I feel. It’s because logically I feel like the amount of pit bulls, which can be estimated in the millions, compared to the amount of attacks doesn’t show that the breed as a whole is unstable and dangerous. It shows that a minority is. That minority needs to be taken care of in some way but logically it doesn’t make sense to me that they need to be eradicated as a whole. That’s why I feel the way I do. Not because I just like them. The math doesn’t add up to mean the same thing to me that it means to you.

Also, I have to think that if this small amount of the whole population can cause people to destroy the breed then what about the next one. What happens when all the pit bulls are gone and then people realize that the next breed of dog is responsible for the most deaths and attacks? It will just be a domino effect. Look at what’s happening in the UK, they’ve already gotten rid of the pit bull and they’re still talking about dog attacks and banning other dog breeds. It’s a never ending problem for them. I don’t want that to be America in the next few years. There has to be another solution.

DubV said...

Freya, do future pit bulls care if they are never born?

scorched earth said...

Freya said "I care about ALL victims, the majority being attacked from other dog breeds because of lack of knowledge and lack of GOOD and AFFECTIVE laws across the country."

Someone considering a career in the psych field might get a better handle on vocabulary. Affective and effective are not interchangeable.

Yes, I believe she is off her meds again.

dawn james said...

lol! great minds... i was just chatting with orangedog. i said i think i will go back in the comment archives and find all of freya's visits to craven, plot them on a graph and see if i can determine her manic cycles.

snarky said...

freya:
i agree, pits are definitely not all bad , though that wont matter much to me next time i have to deal with one again. you could also say that same thing about pediphiles but thats not to say you would want to sacrifice your child to the friendly neighbourhood diddler..... just becuz he sells brownies for the girl guides . i dont really care how nice pitbulls can be to their stupid owners and the households kitty cat . i see them as unnecessary and stupid and the world would be a better place without both pits and their slimy owners .

orangedog said...

I said I was done with you because when I ask questions about what you pit "lovers" are doing to curb the enormous excess of unwanted pits you answer along the lines of: you're a mean poopy head.
You don't argue in good faith and I feel like I'm talking to a child.

orangedog said...

I'm not interested in testing my pets with the next pit I see to discover if it's one of the good ones. You ones I see around me are either being walked with a tow chain or on a flimsy flexi. I'll continue to carry my knife with me. I'm seeing more and more people are going out armed because human intervention is needed to save their pets from being ripped to pieces.

orangedog said...

"I have an uneasy feeling that a lot of people claiming to be pitbull rescuers are actually pit bull breeders and even dogfighters in disguise," Bartlett added. "Otherwise why would they oppose breeding bans that would not affect dogs already born? People who rescue feral cats want to see an end to their breeding. People who rescue exotic animals such as parrots, lions and tigers, and potbellied pigs would like to see breed bans on those species. Why not the so-called pit bull rescuers? Allowing people with commercial interests in companion animals to have a leading voice in setting policy on dog and cat issues is in my view like allowing chicken farmers to have a leading say in whether or not the animal rights movement advocates vegetarianism," Bartlett continued.

"Public policy on animal welfare issues should not be set by breeders and fanciers, and certainly not by dogfighters who pose as breeders and even pretend to be rescuers. When so-called pitbull lovers and rescuers use language like 'it is the right of Americans to buy [or breed] whatever kind of dog they want,' then they are quite obviously not animal rights advocates," Bartlett finished, pointing out that breeding, buying, and selling any animals is inconsistent with the goal of ending animal exploitation."

What she said.

orangedog said...

Here's yet another home invasion. I've never heard of another breed that will go into someone else's house to kill their pet.
http://www.falkirkherald.co.uk/news/local-headlines/dog-attack-horror-in-falkirk-1-2814482

dawn james said...

orangedog, i do believe that there are some rescuers who are breeders but pit bull rescuing has become a life calling for some people. they have found a reason to get up in the morning, they have found their purpose. they feel good about themselves and command respect and admiration from others for their good deed. if you take that away from them, they will be lost. and being able to make a living (even though most rescues i doubt are as lucrative as spindletop) is an added benefit for some of these freaks.

i blogged about one of them. here is alabama pit rescue angel JESSICA CABLER opposing legislation:
JESSICA CABLER "My dogs are really sweet, really goofy, really fun. They are all perfect with people, perfect with other animals."

obviously JESSICA has nothing to worry about, it's THOSE pit bull owners who RAISE them wrong. (that was sarcasm) she should be embracing this law but instead she is whipping up a fear frenzy saying it "might snowball into a breed ban" and that would put her "pit rescue out of business". isn't the REAL goal behind a RESCUE to no longer be needed? don't you want to reach a point where every dog has a home? and the pit nutters call us fear mongers!

tropical storms said...

Back in the day a number of the larger reputable shelters ran spay/neuter campaigns with the slogan "working to put ourselves out of business ". Even today all reputable rescues and shelters require s/n before an animal leaves their custody. Look at the difference between bulldog rescues and all others.

Miss Margo said...

Oh my GAAAAWDDD....was this cringe-inducing to wade through.

My compliments to all, especially my esteemed colleague, DubV. DubV, may tenure find you, and quickly.

I don't know where you get the fuckin patience. There's nothing more exhausting than a debate opponent who is too stupid to realize when they've lost. A pit nutter with two brain cells to rub together would have done a proper *flounce* and run off long ago.

Freya: put down those 1980s Clan of the Cave Bear books. Believe me, I'm no fan of the patriarchy, but there isn't much evidence that women had superior, or even equal, status in pre-historical times. Or any other times. I wish there was.

And I know that physicians are not necessarily scientists...but I would hope that a doctor, or aspiring one (cough, cough)...would have a better grasp of evolution and genetics.

Freya said...

Listen, since you all seem to want to think that I’m unintelligent I’m going to try to explain why I believe what I do in a logical way. It’s not just about how I feel about pit bulls.

This is basically it:

There’s a 1 in 10 million chance in being killed by ANY dog.

ONLY about 1.5% of the population will ever be attacked by ANY dog.

So logically any intelligent person would come to the conclusion that as a whole, ALL dogs are not really a threat to human life. ALL dogs are not really dangerous. A small amount of people are ever really attacked by a dog and a miniscule tiny little amount is ever really killed by a dog. There is no threat. There is really no danger associated with dogs. To think otherwise would just make you an idiot.

Next, 23 out of 310 million people in the US were killed by pit bulls last year. (Information from dogsbite. Not really true. One of those people were killed by a specific breed of dog that were BULLDOGS, but whatever, anything is a pit bull if you want it to be.)

Dubv, you must obviously put a lot of faith in science. I’m sure you are an intelligent and logical person. Now tell me, HONESTLY, if you were to see a ratio of 23:310,000,000 in reference to any other source of death besides a pit bull would you really HONESTLY consider that something SERIOUS and of GREAT concern and danger?

Please be real. Any logical intelligent person wouldn’t.

Now, tell me something. All of you on here probably had a bad experience with pit bulls, correct? You already had formed and shaped an opinion that revolved around not liking them from that point and went on to find information that backed your opinion while IGNORING the larger picture.

There is no logical reason that pit bull type dogs should not exist. They are not a serious threat; actually dogs as a whole are not a serious threat AT ALL.

So please, before you start telling someone they are unintelligent look at yourself first. Just because you want to lie to yourselves and ignore the reality of the situation doesn’t mean everyone is going to be stupid enough to do so.

For the person with the Akita, you asked how I would know a loose pit bull wouldn’t get out and attack a child. No one can know that for sure but probability and statistics show it’s not likely to happen and this is the information that backs that statement up. What factual information do you really have on your side to prove me wrong? Nothing, because this is reality, this is the truth.

The way you portray the information you do is misleading and people should be smart enough to do the math and figure it out but obviously they’re not. You sit there and write out percentages like pit bulls are responsible for 56% of all fatal attacks. 56 sounds like a big number. 23 out of 310 million, not so much.

You work with numbers the way retailers do. They know how to price things to get people to buy their product and you know how to display your “facts” in numbers that mislead the public into thinking that pit bulls are actually a serious danger to people when they’re obviously not.

So again, want to try calling me unintelligent? You probably will. You won’t have a better come back than that I’m sure.

Freya said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Freya said...

“I'm not interested in testing my pets with the next pit I see to discover if it's one of the good ones. You ones I see around me are either being walked with a tow chain or on a flimsy flexi. I'll continue to carry my knife with me. I'm seeing more and more people are going out armed because human intervention is needed to save their pets from being ripped to pieces.”

Again, let me repeat, that does not exist where I live. In the south of the state I live in there is a known problem with dogfighters. Areas are poorer and I could imagine that might be the case. I live in a predominantly white upper middle class area. I’ve gone to the local park and seen pit bulls there repeatedly. Actually 10 woman walking with their pit bull type dogs not too long ago for a fundraiser for a local rescue. Never been a fatal attack by a pit bull. I can find FOUR cases of pit bull attacks online. Maybe there are more buried on the internet somewhere.

People own pit bulls in this state and there isn’t a problem with them here. There was recently a story on about pit bulls. It was a good one. The last story I can remember was about a pit bull that was shot. Why? Some idiot saw the dog playing with a little boy and thought it was attacking him. Shot the little boys dog right in front of his face. So yeah, there are idiots in this state that would fit right in with you people. Heads stuck so far up his ass he couldn’t tell the difference between a dogs playing rather than attacking. I’m sure that little boy will never get over it and grow up to hate people just like you.

Miss Margo said...

I thought I heard UPS knocking at the door, and then I realized it was just the sound of falling coconuts.

Cause Craven Desires is located in Honolulu!

See yall at the luau!

DubV said...

"So logically any intelligent person would come to the conclusion that as a whole, ALL dogs are not really a threat to human life. ALL dogs are not really dangerous. A small amount of people are ever really attacked by a dog and a miniscule tiny little amount is ever really killed by a dog. There is no threat. There is really no danger associated with dogs. To think otherwise would just make you an idiot."

After allergic reactions from hymenoptera (bees, wasps, ants, etc) venom, domestic dogs kill more people than any other animal in the US each year. More than bears, more than sharks, more than cougars, more than wolves, more than alligators, more than venomous snakes/spiders/scorpions combined, more than livestock.

All these things are recognized as dangerous, and yet most kill less often than domestic dogs.

Speaking for myself, I am not concerned that I will be killed by a pit bull. I am saddened at each person that is killed by a dog, but this number is DWARFED by the number that are mauled. And the number of humans mauled is DWARFED by the number of non-human animals maimed or killed.

You should spend some time perusing the frankenmauler update that Dawn created each week for a few years. The link is the frankenstein the bar to the right. Read the stories and look at the pictures. If you consider this a non-issue, then I think you are simply uncaring.

I am of the opinion that no other non-human animal causes as much suffering in the US than does the pit bull-type dog. Any other consumer product leaving this devastation in its wake would have been recalled long ago. How many died before lawn darts were taken off the market? How many were killed by the Corvair?

Also, keep in mind that the likelihood of a person or pet being injured by a pit bull or any dog is conditioned on your living situation and activities. If I lived in a large city or in an area with many pit bulls, I would not feel safe owning any dog.

DubV said...

"Again, let me repeat, that does not exist where I live"

Well, if you don't think it is a problem in your area, then we should apply this thinking to all situations and legislate accordingly.

I've lived a lot of places. Very few middle to upper middle class people own pit bulls. Freya, are you wanting us to believe that you live in an upscale area where many pit bulls are safely owned? You might live in the only place like this in the US.

DubV said...

To answer the question about bad pit bull experiences, I knew they were a dumb dog to own for a long time. I know of too many acquaintances that have had bad experiences with them. Plus, I watched them at dog parks (and heard of the deaths at the dog park each year from pit bulls) and knew something of genetics and breeding. What sealed the deal were several attacks near me, including one on my dog, and starting to read more about the issue.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Freya,

I think you're stupid and uneducated.

What you fail to mention is the constant threat of people and the pets who live near a pit bull and their ignorant and belligerent owner(s). While the pit bull dog is the breed most likely to extinguish human life, pit bulls are also the breed most likely to threaten life of all forms.

As Orangedog mentioned, pit owners enjoy threatening the people around them with their mauling machine, further strengthening my argument. They think it's entertaining.

Owning a pit bull that is not animal aggressive is the exception, not the rule.

Pit bull breeders will tell you, "NEVER leave your pit unattended with other pets" and "NEVER take your game-bred pit to the DOG PARK", but idiots like yourself do it all the time. When your pit exercises its genetics, you'll be explaining to Animal Control how your pit has NEVER shown signs of aggression, it SNAPPED, blah blah blah. You have volumes of excuses to pull from because a simple search on pit bull websites will supply you with the excuses and ways to mitigate the your "pit bull problem".

The scenario I mention happens ALL THE TIME. The same excuses are regurgitated ALL THE TIME.

Again, you are ill-informed and tedious.

In America, we pride ourselves on being able to own just about anything. Semi-automatic assault rifles, venomous snakes, large Boa Constrictors, gunpowder, and pit bulls. When your game-bred pit poses a threat to your neighbors, that's when people begin to question if pit bulls should be restricted or banned.

"OOPS, my dog snapped", "Your dog started it and my dog FINISHED IT", "Someone left the gate open", or "There was a hole in the fence", "Why was the child out front unsupervised" are not acceptable excuses.

Normal people are disgusted at the pro-pit bull movement and cover up. Accusing victims, normal dogs, and ladders for the damage pit bulls and their owners are responsible for. And again, MORE THAN ANY OTHER BREED.

If it was only the pit owner and the owner's family or their pets who suffered, I'd just shake my head and laugh my ass off, but that's not the case.

You're just a jackass with excuses and misdirection.

dawn james said...

nice burn miss margo.

"There’s a 1 in 10 million chance in being killed by ANY dog.

ONLY about 1.5% of the population will ever be attacked by ANY dog."

this is as far as i got with freya's recent tirade. and it's as far as i intend to go. life is just too fucking short.

first all of, this is why people think you are stupid. there is not a 1 in 10 million chance of being killed by ANY dog. UNLESS maybe you are referring to the infections that can kill people after a dog or cat bite.

second, here's the problem for ME, little girl, the issue is not just HUMAN FATAL dog attacks. the problem is also the life altering but not life ending maulings, scalpings and amputations of HUMANS and also the devastation of OUR pets and livestock. when was the last time a pomeranian killed a horse? when was the last time the EMTs had to wait for police backup so they could assist the person that had just been mauled by beagles? when was the last time someone locked themselves in their bathroom to escape their rampaging border collie? when was the last time a golden retriever entered a stranger's home to maul their dog? when was the last time some one had a heart attack when a chihuahua attacked their poodle? when was the last time a malamute busted through the fence and killed the 70 year old neighbor while watering their roses? when was the last time a labrador charged into a strange house and kill a toddler watching cartoons? when was the last time a rottweiler put FIVE COPS in the hospital? fuck. not even rottweilers have the track record of these ugly fucking gripping dogs.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Dawn,

This is why pit bull owners and breeders will NEVER GET IT. They are stuck in an infinite loop of placing blame on everything except the genetics and proper handling of the pit bull dog and the lack of common sense and sound reasoning of the pit owner.

While Freya is less aggressive than the average pit owner, her beliefs exactly mimic their illogical reasoning and lack of empathy for the people around her.

PIT NUTTERS WILL NEVER GET IT.

dawn james said...

"While the pit bull dog is the breed most likely to extinguish human life, pit bulls are also the breed most likely to threaten life of all forms."

and cars and planes.

Freya said...

“ first all of, this is why people think you are stupid. there is not a 1 in 10 million chance of being killed by ANY dog. UNLESS maybe you are referring to the infections that can kill people after a dog or cat bite.”

Oh yeah, your smart. Let us go through the math little girl. There are about 310 million people. Divide 310 by 10 and you get 31. ABOUT the number of attacks last year. About the estimated number of attacks on a yearly basis. Sometimes less. Sometimes more. It’s easier doing the amount with 310 million.

You want to be specific there is 315,422,000 million people. You can average an estimate of the chance of being killed per year by picking out the number of attacks over a time period, let’s say 4 years. Divide that number by 4. You’ll get 30 something. Divide that by the amount of the US population. You can sum it up at 315. That will give you an accurate amount. It will STILL be about 1 in 10 million. The added 5 doesn’t really make a difference.

Freya said...

“This is why pit bull owners and breeders will NEVER GET IT. They are stuck in an infinite loop of placing blame on everything except the genetics and proper handling of the pit bull dog and the lack of common sense and sound reasoning of the pit owner.”

No you don’t get it. There is no reason that the breeds that are called pit bulls shouldn’t exist. Over all they are not a danger to society. This has nothing to do with lack of knowledge about something actually needing to be done over all. Obviously there are a lot of shitty breeders. Half of them are selling APBT that are Mastiff mutts and bulldog mixes. There is no REAL APBT anymore unless you count the limited few that a still game bred dogs. To try to say legit breeds like the Am. Staff. Terrier and the Staff. Bull Terrier should be banned is ridiculous. I would assume that’s what you would want right? For the legit breeds that make up the pit bull type dogs to be banned. I don’t see the point in banning a 40 something pound dog. Which is how much the Staff. Bull Terrier weighs. The Am. Staff. Terrier is a watered down dog. Banning of these MUTTS that the BYBs are trying to sell as Bully’s and plus sized APBT (Mastiff mixes) is fine by me. They shouldn’t exist. I don’t really care. I don’t think that what you’re talking about though so that’s why I disagree.

Again, I already mentioned the breeder issues. ALL breeders fight against breeding regulations. Not just pit bull breeders. So to expect pit bull owners to be able to go up against EVERY damn breeder in this country is insane. It’s not going to happen. They won’t let regulations be made against them.

Also the argument that dogs kill more than any other animal. Well obviously. It’s not like there is a regular supply of lions, tigers, and bears living in in people’s homes with them. Dogs are the only animals large enough to kill a human that are regularly allowed to LIVE with humans. No shit they’re going to be killing more humans than other animals. They have more of an opportunity to. Seriously, that’s your argument?

snarky said...

freya:

thanks for reassuring me that wont be killed by a shitbull, seeing as several times me and my dog have been chased or attacked by shitbulls. also three people close to me also had serious pitbull attacks . somehow the numbers dont add up , if my experience and others is anything to go by . nowadays i am always armed in some way , and fully expect to be defending myself again against a shitbull attack at some point in the future

Rumpelstiltskin said...

YESTERDAY

5 pit bull home fiasco = 2 people attacked; 1 pit bull killed in a fight; 2 pit bulls (the fighters) put down.

http://www.delmarvanow.com/article/20130302/WIC/303020029

SALISBURY — The Wicomico Humane Society has taken over an investigation involving a pit bull attack.

When deputies arrived to the home they discovered a woman, who was later identified as the owner of the pit bulls, had been attacked by the dogs after trying to prevent two of them from fighting.

Of the five dogs, two were taken to the Wicomico Humane Society, two were EUTHANIZED and another dog was KILLED after being attacked by one of the other dogs.

A crate-and-rotate FAILOLOL!!!!

I love it when the pit owner is also the victim. Pit bull genetics got pits killed and mauled the owner! LOLOL!

Suck it Freya!

Miss Margo said...

Freya, besides the fact that you're IGNORING thousands of other pit bull attacks on humans and their beloved pets and livestock...

...the way you present your data and analysis is...not very scholarly. I think you have some "issues" with the quantification of your variables (among other things). Might want to run that by one of your profs before you submit anything for peer review.

I bet DubV could help you, if you asked him nicely. I myself usually use SPSS with the other Social Sciences tards, but I can rock a little Stata if the dataset calls for it.

dawn james said...

hey goddess of love and beauty, i wasn't refuting your fatal dog attack statistics. i was refuting your use of the word ANY.

just curious, how old are you?

DubV said...

Good catch Rumpel.

Living next to the type of animal most likely to kill you (after bees so long as you are allergic) can be a source of stress and constrain your lifestyle.

You should ask my brother's family how they felt when two neighbor pit bulls would pin his wife and newborn son in their car or on their porch whenever they the dogs were out.

P.S. Before my brother, dad, or other neighbor were able to kill them, the two pits locked on each other and both sustained mortal wounds. They were litter mates. The asshole owner came home to blood sprayed up to shoulder height on the walls. Arterial bleeds will do that.

orangedog said...

I live in an upper middle class neighborhood and I still see pits being walking with tow chains coming from outside the neighborhood. I saw a woman walking two pits on flexis today! I was glad I was in the car.
These dogs should have never been mainstreamed. They are all over now.

dawn james said...

FREYA has left the building. if you would to continue the debate, you'll have to wait. if you don't feel like waiting, you can find her here from 7 - 11 pm eastern time. please remember to address her as LADY MORRIGHAN.

orangedog said...

Don't worry. You have a new nutter in the Layla comments. This one likes to equate abused children with fighting dogs. So, not too bright.

Miss Margo said...

HAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

YOU MEAN FREYA'S NOT A MED STUDENT?!

I'm SHOCKED...!

She's a lovely dancer. Why'd she have to LIE?

Part and parcel of being a pit nutter, I guess.

What'd she say when you confronted her, Dawn?

dawn james said...

i'm guessing that she doesn't know yet. she's at work.

she lied because thinks a med student's opinion commands more respect than a pole dancer/stripper/belly dancer. yet another marker of her stupidity.

but yeah, she has a rockin bod. don't know why she doesn't use one of her dancer photos for her avatar.

scorched earth said...

Well, checking Freya's schedule tells us why she seems to have so much time for her advocacy efforts.

A Physical Therapy Assistant student with a thorough understanding of the importance of sequins and the advertising slogan of "A lady and her Belly" in addition to pole dance skills? How can you go wrong?

LOL!!!!!

snarky said...


bla, bla, bla ,x 1000 000

ha, ha ,ha , pitters are all the fucking same . dumb , sleezy and bull shitters .


YES U CAN AND SHOULD JUDGE ,LOL

sparky

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Snarky,

I still think it's a step above Vet Tech. ROFL!

DubV said...

Let this be a lesson to nutters everywhere.

This is great.

So what does everyone else think the odds are of Freya coming back and posting again? I think it is pretty slim.

DubV said...

"She's a lovely dancer. Why'd she have to LIE?"

I don't know about anyone else, but I'll listen to a dancer over a liar any day.

tropical storms said...

I can't believe she works at Truva. A friend of mine lives nearby and loves that place. This is too funny.

DubV said...

"but instead move around like your argument is actually interpretative dance."

I was in a prophetic mood last night, LMAO.

snarky said...


rumpel

yep, id take a pole dancer over a chubby belligerent vet tech , anytime.

just the one time though

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Tropical Storms,

I like the selection of appetizers and the prices are very reasonable. I'd probably eat there but I live too far away.

tropical storms said...

I've never tried it, but I understand they have a good vegetarian selection. I would drop in my next trip up but I think I'd be kind of creeped out now.

dawn james said...

kenji x the psychopath is feeling neglected.

scorched earth said...

Kenji has learned to use spell check but he has no direction in his thought patterns. He is also complaining that he needs more followers. Note to Kenji, if nobody is following then you are not leading. Sad little man.

Miss Margo said...

cracker desires lol lol

Miss Margo said...

I came back just to read how this thread ended up. It makes me laugh every time.

"I like the selection of appetizers" lol lol

snarky said...


dubv:
she may be a lovely dancer
but she does have a shit-coloured shitbull she'd probably lie about if it got loose and ripped someones pet or child . i could look past a sleazy occupation ,but not a sleazy personality .

dawn james said...

I came back just to read how this thread ended up. It makes me laugh every time.

"I like the selection of appetizers" lol lol


miss margo, are you talking about the psychopath or the narcissist? lol

Freya said...

“HAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

YOU MEAN FREYA'S NOT A MED STUDENT?!

I'm SHOCKED...!”

Fuck you Margo. You sound like a sex in the city wannabe in your bullshit blog. You think you’re smarter than me?
Ha, well I’ve been in a relationship since I was 21 with the same man so I guess I know one thing better than you. How to actually get a man and how to keep a relationship intact. Good luck with that.

Freya said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Freya said...

“I live in an upper middle class neighborhood and I still see pits being walking with tow chains coming from outside the neighborhood. I saw a woman walking two pits on flexis today! I was glad I was in the car.
These dogs should have never been mainstreamed. They are all over now.”

I answered this in my above comment but I felt that I came of kind of like a stuck up bitch so I’m just going to try and explain this in a way that it won’t sound like that. So let me sum this up. I live within a 2 minute walk of a few mansions worth up to 2 million dollars. A couple towns over, about 15-20 minutes away there are mansions that go back to the 1800s that are practically priceless. The governor of my state lives in my county. Okay? Like this isn’t just some nice little area. THIS is where RICH fucking people live. Like there is literally a celebrity couple with a reality tv show living a 5 minutes’ drive from my town. Actually I drive through their town on my way to school. So no, I don’t believe you live in an area quite like mine.

I can go to the park and people don’t pick up their dogs and run in the other direction. Actually they usually smile and continue on their way. I’ve had people come up to me and tell me how gorgeous my dog is and ask to give him some pets and loving. I had a friend who owned a pit bull mutt that people literally begged him to sell to them. I can go out and see a different pit bull every damn day practically. Loose dogs don’t run my streets and people aren’t terrified of pit bulls and their owners. So I’m sorry you live in an area like that and pit bulls are a problem for you. Here they’re not and your bullshit belief that no one should own a pit bull and that anyone that does is a fucked up person is just bullshit. End of story.

Pit bulls aren’t terrifying people across America. There are certain areas where it’s bad and areas where they are not a problem. That’s it.

dawn james said...

Thursday, September 30, 2010
The event was coordinated by Morgan Marcum, belly dance instructor and junior psychology student, and her boyfriend of 10 years, Adam Hicks, senior sociology major and humane society volunteer.


i really need to take a class in southern math. i just don't get it.

here's a topic that i do grasp. and a book i recommend.

DubV said...

"I answered this in my above comment but I felt that I came of kind of like a stuck up bitch so I’m just going to try and explain this in a way that it won’t sound like that."

" So I’m sorry you live in an area like that and pit bulls are a problem for you. Here they’re not and your bullshit belief that no one should own a pit bull and that anyone that does is a fucked up person is just bullshit. End of story."

"Pit bulls aren’t terrifying people across America. There are certain areas where it’s bad and areas where they are not a problem. That’s it."


I find that statements such as these should not be refuted, but instead they should be underlined.

DubV said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
DubV said...

Freya, your attack on Miss Margo is ridiculous. You are a liar. How should your impression of someone's honesty on their blog influence others at all? This includes your comparison of them to your (likely fictional) self.

I liked this part.

"How to actually get a man and how to keep a relationship intact."

You are defining yourself here in terms of men, yet you inferred you were a feminist before. Seems odd to me.

scorched earth said...

Lady M said...

"Pit bulls aren’t terrifying people across America. There are certain areas where it’s bad and areas where they are not a problem. That’s it." "No you don’t get it. There is no reason that the breeds that are called pit bulls shouldn’t exist. Over all they are not a danger to society."

No one expects deep thoughts from a pole dancer but prior to preaching pit bull safety please note current, real statistics.

There have been five dog mauling deaths so far this year. All five were due to pit bulls. The most recent, just yesterday, a seven year old child. I have never been a math whiz but to me that works out to one dead human every 12 days for the year to date. Not a danger to society? What planet do you live on?

Lady M said... "I answered this in my above comment but I felt that I came of kind of like a stuck up bitch so I’m just going to try and explain this in a way that it won’t sound like that. So let me sum this up. I live within a 2 minute walk of a few mansions worth up to 2 million dollars. A couple towns over, about 15-20 minutes away there are mansions that go back to the 1800s that are practically priceless. The governor of my state lives in my county. Okay? Like this isn’t just some nice little area. THIS is where RICH fucking people live. Like there is literally a celebrity couple with a reality tv show living a 5 minutes’ drive from my town. Actually I drive through their town on my way to school. So no, I don’t believe you live in an area quite like mine."

Hon, if this was supposed to modify anyone's opinion of you it was a huge failure. You apparently feel that where you live validates your worth. Actually, you are a pretty average pitter, liar with self entitlement issues, a cluster B queen.

Yes DubV, just underline these statements. They speak for themselves.

dawn james said...

dubv, i thought her attack on miss margo was fucking grand. i should have spelled out my last comment.

freya stated above that she has been with the same man since she was 21. in a previous blog post, she stated she was in her mid 20's. even if the above two statements were not lies, they would not be anything to brag about. but the link i posted from 2010, says she and adam hicks were an item for 10 years yet she married jeremy robinson last sept. hence the comment about southern math.

dawn james said...

"Actually, you are a pretty average pitter, liar with self entitlement issues, a cluster B queen."

yep, pretty much have to be a narcissist in order to be an exotic dancer and engage in kind of lying that she does.


I totally love being me. Do you totally love being you? What's your favorite thing about you?

april 29 said...

The touching wedding video of Lady M does bring up some questions.

First there is the math thing and the previous boyfriend. So much for the attack on Miss Margo.

Second, the wedding video finishes up with the normal shots of family and the building. Please note that this wedding was apparently held at the Giannini Law office with the secondary title Georgia Felony Defense (georgiafelonydefense.com). I'm a pretty traditional type and wonder why you would chose to be married at Georgia Felony Defense.

I know I said that I would have no further comments toward the Med Student Freya but now that she has been outed as a pole dancer and incredibly bold liar, I do have further thoughts.

Morgan, you brag endlessly about the money in your neighborhood. Be aware that pit bull attacks can slide in neighborhoods where residents may not be able to afford a lawyer. In your upscale community you would be very wise to exercise caution with your lovable pit. If that dog has a DNA driven moment your victim will obtain excellent legal representation and you will be sued. My pitter was surprised to be sued and the settlement was substantial. You do, as a "responsible" pit bull owner, have insurance?

dawn james said...

correction: jeremy's last name is not robinson, it is ferguson. i really shouldn't be multitasking today.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

I think this is my favorite blog!

snarky said...

freya :

methinks you do sound like a stuck up bitch and where you live doesnt matter as much as the fact you own a shitbull and think its ok cuz of where you live . i live where there are plenty of pitbulls and they all scare me regardless of who the owners are . not for my own safety but for the safety of everyone and their pets . i just think these dogs were bred to fight and the owners who dont realize this or dont care are causing a lot of unnecessary suffering .

Freya said...

“Freya, your attack on Miss Margo is ridiculous. You are a liar. How should your impression of someone's honesty on their blog influence others at all? This includes your comparison of them to your (likely fictional) self.

I liked this part.

"How to actually get a man and how to keep a relationship intact."

You are defining yourself here in terms of men, yet you inferred you were a feminist before. Seems odd to me.”

I NEVER said I was a feminist first of all. I just don’t like the fact that women have been put down and considered less than men in the past and still by some men till this. I’m perfectly fine making my man a sandwich when he ask me to nicely.

No I’m not a liar. You just want to think I am and that’s perfectly okay. Good for you. I don’t really care if it influences anyone. I’m being attacked. Then fuck all of you. I’ll attack back. Since all of you live a fictional life hidden behind fake names and faker personalities there’s really nothing I know about you to personally attack. So trust me, when I find a target I will hit it. Margo is an extremely easy target.

orangedog said...

Holy shit. I live in one of the richest counties in the country. WTF are you trying to prove? I have McMansions and real mansions all around me too - and there are still tons of shitbulls.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Freya,

There's an effort to send a couple to Mars in 2018. What do you think? And no, you can't take your pit.

orangedog said...

Why are you even here? You wouldn't have to attack back if you didn't come here and lie in the first place.
Glutton for punishment.
Last month two loose shitbulls killed some poor kid's puppy while he was walking it. Tore it to shreds right in front of him. Yep, those fighting' dogs sure leave a good impression where ever they go!
I don't know about you, but I like less shredded puppy in my neighborhood.

Freya said...

“Why are you even here? You wouldn't have to attack back if you didn't come here and lie in the first place.”

Explain to me what I lied about? You don’t know me so how could you honestly know anything about me.
This belly dancing shit. Really? I can’t dance for shit. I had a best friend in high school that was an amazing dancer and she couldn’t even teach me. Have NO rhythm. It’s really quite a shame because I’ve heard belly dancing is GREAT for working out, really flattens your stomach and I hate working out so that would probably be the funniest work out I could try. But no, if you want to start making up some bullshit and associating me with someone just to be asshole that’s probably the farthest thing from me you could have gotten. Cute though. Really mature.
So Dawn, you asked me how old I am right. Well really, how old are you? Grow the fuck up.

Freya said...

“First there is the math thing and the previous boyfriend. So much for the attack on Miss Margo.”

First of all there is no issue with the math. Those are legit facts. Those represent the statistics and the probability of being attacked or killed by ANY dog. Yes DAWN, any. NOT just pit bulls. Obviously not dogs that would be too small as to be incapable of killing a person but other dogs besides pit bulls are responsible for attacks and killings. There is NO way to deny that, it is ABSOLUTELY 100% true.
Previous bf? I don’t even know where you’re going with that. The video comments and bullshit, I honestly don’t know if you’re that stupid to think that’s really me or your just fucking with me. I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and just assume it’s the latter.

“Morgan, you brag endlessly about the money in your neighborhood.”

My names not Morgan. I’m not bragging. I’m just explaining the situation. You don’t see people walking pit bulls around with metal chains. They get walked around with a leash and collar like a normal dog. People respect other people in the community because it is a nice area so dogs are not allowed to roam the streets; their owners take responsibility for their dogs, including the pit bull owners. That’s why people around here don’t leave the house with “weapons” when they go to walk their dogs and that’s why people actually like pit bulls here and more often than not actually smile at pit bull owners instead of running away.

“You do, as a "responsible" pit bull owner, have insurance?”
Obviously.

Freya said...

“Holy shit. I live in one of the richest counties in the country. WTF are you trying to prove? I have McMansions and real mansions all around me too - and there are still tons of shitbulls.”

Really? You live in such a nice area like that and you still have pit bull owners who don’t respect other people and allow their dogs to roam the streets and attack people and other animals? You and the rest of your neighbors carry weapons around with you because pit bull owners just allow their dogs to get out and attack ALL the time without a care about the other people living in the neighborhood?

That’s a lie. That’s bullshit.

I could see MAYBE once in a while, VERY rarely there being loose dogs roaming around in a nice area like that. I’ve seen 3 loose dogs in my lifetime. Otherwise for some reason, people around here know how to keep their dogs off the streets. Weird.

DubV said...

The name Freya (also spelled Freyja) refers to a pagan goddess and also means "lady".

orangedog said...

No, I'm not lying you bitch. I see them being walked on flexis and wearing fucking tutus. Rich people can be shitty and have shitty kids - duh!
There's one guy who likes to parade his around with a tow chain and a padlock.
I didn't say they were running loose. Read for comprehension.
Another guy likes to let his pit drag him toward other dogs even if the other person is obviously trying to get away. We even have a GSD that does run loose and does bite people - just to be fair.
But nooooo, rich people would never intimidate others with their dangerous dog. STFU. You know nothing except what's in your own little circle.

orangedog said...

You know, when you live in a city, it has millions of people and even in the wealthy enclaves, where 2 million is chump change, some of those people have scumbag relatives or friends or may have ties to less than legal organizations. Did you know that their are rich kid gangs? Apparently, they get bored too and it's a big problem here. Guess what dog is #1 with thugs?
(That would be pit bulls.)

Freya said...

Who are you to talk Dubv, as a man you should respect women whether you agree with them or not and the way you have talked to me is disrespectful so what type of man are you? I wouldn’t be swearing as I am doing if it wasn’t for the fact I was being PERSONALLY attacked. You can say I’m soft but that’s not what it’s about. I’m not going to just sit back and watch someone talk shit about me and not fight back. If you don’t like my opinions and you disagree with what I have to say than you can attack my opinions and thoughts NOT me personally. I never attacked anyone personally until you all started which shows me that you are all immature. You’re not respectable people. For any of you to think your better people than me is a joke. How all of you talk to another person that you don’t even know with such disrespect just because they have a different opinion than you shows me that NONE of you are capable of being respected or being grown adults. Then to question me as if I’m the liar, as if I’m the unintelligent one who is “young”. No, that’s ridiculous. The reality is all of you behave as if you were some clique in middle school with your nonsense and your insults directed towards other people different from yourselves. It’s sickening to know that people like you exist in this world let alone that most of you are actually probably older than me. It’s absolutely pathetic. The reality is you never grew up and this is your way of making up for it. You probably never fit in anywhere in life and now you all have a “special” clique that you can all sit around and make fun of the “pit nutters” and act like the “cool” kids for once in your lives.

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