Wednesday, February 27, 2013

Depraved Indifference

Just when you think Best Friends Animal Sanctuary can't sink any lower, they trot out LAYLA. LAYLA is a VICK dog. She has lived on the Utah Cult's compound under the court mandated million dollar insurance policy for the last 6 years. That is LAYLA on the left in the photo below. That is as close as LAYLA can safely be around other dogs. LAYLA is available for adoption.















Lovely Layla is a 'Vicktory dog' who adores people, walks, food puzzles and car rides. After being rescued from the property of Michael Vick, Layla has worked very hard to heal from her hard life's journey and pass her Canine Good Citizenship test. And now, she's finally ready to find a forever home!

This social butterfly wiggles with joy whenever anybody comes near and leans in for body strokes and scratches. Layla just can't wait to be a special person's best friend and cuddle buddy. She walks very nicely on a leash and is learning how to wear a muzzle, so she can go on play dates.

Due to her history and pretty strong prey instinct, a home without other pets might be best. She takes medication for arthritis in her shoulder and tests positive for Babesia, a parasite that is easily managed. Although she's made amazing progress, new things and noises still scare her.

Because of her very sad history, before taking her home, her new person will want to come meet her and spend some time to make sure it's a love connection. Please fill out an adoption application today if you'd like to consider giving Layla her first and forever loving home.

After $18,000 and 6 years of rehabilitation, LAYLA is still frightened by new things and noises and requires a muzzle to be near dogs. But SOMEHOW she still managed to acquire the canine good citizen certificate and she is ready for her forever home (with no other pets of course). How in the world can it possibly be legal or ethical to adopt out aggressive contagious fighting dogs? Not only does LAYLA pose a serious threat to neighborhood dogs in terms of a vicious attack but she (as well as the rest of the VICK dogs) is walking around the community like Typhoid Mary.

Most of the VICK dogs have babesia. Last month the owner of HANDSOME DAN was mooching on facebook for the expensive treatment, which only controls, not clears the parasite from the blood. The cost for one vial of the drug: $1400. Hmmm... I wonder, if HANDSOME DAN'S owner can not afford the Babesia treatment, how can they afford the court mandated million dollar liability insurance?

Click HERE to read more about Babesia, the easy to manage parasite.

Click HERE to read about more VICK dogs at the Utah Cult.

Click HERE to read about successfully placed VICK dogs.

Click HERE and HERE to read more about the CGC.

pimping the vick dogs, ssshhh

Narcissism Revealed (LEO)

Francis Battista on Babesia 

Depraved Indifference


Best Friends: Good Deed or Irresponsible Actions?
Best Friends: Good Deed or Irresponsible Actions?
Best Friends: Good Deed or Irresponsible Actions?

Study Conducted by Best Friends Animal Sanctuary Explains Why They Failed to Rehabilitate Vick Dogs and Why Fighting Dogs Will Never Make Good Pets

144 comments:

Packhorse said...

Layla just can't wait to maul to death your neighbor's Sheltie.

PutMeInCharge4OneDay said...

I bet this dog will get purchased quickly.

You know there are lots of nutters who would love to say they have a vick dog.

18,000 and lots of love and she is still not a normal dog. How can that be.............

As for the CGC, it goes along with the dumbing down of our society. People actually "train" for it.
Good ol Pet Smart and Petco have CGC "classes". For many people this is their only goal. It has minimal requirements and just about any dog can pass it especially with the leniency of some testers. Obviously the tester for best friends is on their side and is going to pass all their dogs.

Getting past the part where this dog was allowed to live and not euthanize, I can not begin to fathom that its going to get put out in society.

We all know that there will come a day where it "somehow" gets loose and kills someones pet or a person.

Have you guys looked at the 990s from Best Friends. I wish I could be so non-profit in my business.

Your Quiet Neighbor said...

Hey, my business isn't turning a profit right now. Can I be like Best Friends? Because I'd like to NOT make money the way they're NOT making money.

PutMeInCharge4OneDay said...

A friend of mine was telling me yesterday how there is a "pit bull" service dog in a class she teaches at a local community college. It even has a "doctors note". She was so impressed as if how to show me how great these dogs.

I explained to her how one can purchase a "doctors note" online, and in looking to provide a link to her came upon a "pit bull service dog" site that will deem your pit bull ready for service for only $275 (I am sure they will do other breeds but they are a pit bull "rescue".....

http://www.chako.org/servicedogs.html

Doctors note available here (and other sites)
http://www.cptas.com/cgi-bin/product.cgi?id=100917001

I will add that this is a very intelligent woman who buys into its all how you raise them myth.....
Though she herself owns a normal dog.


Branwyne Finch said...

Just a point I want to make...Babesia Canis, is easier to treat, and may even be curable; it is the more common form that "normal" dogs get. Babesia Gibsoni is almost exclusively found in pit bulls....it is a more serious form of babesia, and can be fatal if not treated. In its acute form, a dog with b. gibsoni can get really sick really fast, and die of anemia and other complications. Sometimes a blood transfusion is neccesary. In it's chronic form, the dog remains a carrier, and can develop symptoms when it's immune system is stressed. It is very expensive to treat.

Both forms are transmitted by ticks....and once a tick feeds from an infected dog, the infection is passed on to all the ticks produced by that one. Because dog fighting culture 1. Keeps pit bulls outside in a "yard", where they are exposed to ticks, and 2. involves lots of direct blood transmission in the form of bites, this more serious form is almost exclusively found in pit bulls. There is also speculation that pit bulls may have a genetic predisposition to infection by b. gibsoni.

So when an adoptive owner of a fight bust dog "forgets" to use frontline, and their dog gets a tick, if that tick isn't removed right away, and allowed to engorge and fall off......you have just introduced B Gibsoni into the environment, right? So how are all these rescue organizations shipping fight bust dogs all over the country? Why would I want your "rescued" pit bull anywhere near my dog? If he bites my dog, even a minor bite could infect my dog. Isn't this a humane issue....shouldn't we be using EVERY TOOL POSSIBLE, including BSL, to shut down dog fighting operations to try and eliminate this disease?

Branwyne Finch said...

I just wanted to add that Best Friends, in 2012, had a blog post about those "poor Vick dogs", and this is what they had to say about babesia then...

http://blogs.bestfriends.org/index.php/2012/07/20/michael-vick-dog-adoption-app/

"Many of the 22 Vicktory dogs who came to Best Friends for rehabilitation arrived with a hidden killer circulating through their blood – babesia gibsoni, a fatal blood-born protozoan parasite that destroys red blood cells and ultimately causes death. It is virtually impossible to cure and treatment of symptoms involves long-term steroid therapy, which is itself debilitating.

It is a terrible, wasting disease that is spread primarily through blood-to-blood exchanges during dog-fighting matches."


So.....a year ago babesia was a "terrible, wasting, fatal disease"....and today, since they want to start dumping these dogs, because they no longer are the fund raising draw they once were...babesia is a "parasite that is easily managed". How bout that!

I am wondering if any of the other Vick dog adopters knew the dogs were infected with babesia, and if they did, did they know what that meant? Why would Handsome Dans owner be begging online for money to treat her Vick dog if she KNEW he was infected when she adopted him, and that it would likely cost a lot of money to treat him? Isn't that what the dowry was for? Exactly where did all that money go?





skeptifem said...

I can't believe they are doing this. I hope someone sues when layla goes on a mauling spree.

dawn james said...

"Exactly where did all that money go?"

well, it certainly go into reinforcing the BFAS vick dog containment fields.


thank you branwyne, i will add that link to the blog post.

thanks for tipping me off to layla too.

dawn james said...

putmeincharge,
the CPS site is a real scam. the feds said NO to emotional support dogs.

LOL! dawn capp's (chako) "first official certified service dog" is her OWN.

correct me if i am wrong but i don't train dogs to alert to medical changes. and if they do, exactly how is that done? do they find someone with epilepsy and trigger a seizure for the dog?

capp and CPS need to be by the FDA.

dawn james said...

google is awesome.

Seizure alert dogs are born with this remarkable ability. This sets them apart from other types of service animals.

However, there is no known way to train a dog to alert to seizures.

We cannot train our dogs to alert to oncoming seizures.

dawn james said...

"capp and CPS need to be by the FDA."

should have read "capp and CPS need to be raided by the FDA."

Miss Margo said...

I clicked the link for the story of Mel and Big Dick Hunter--the one Snack wrote.

OMG, made my day. What a cheesy douchebag. I like they way that he doesn't smile for the camera (is smiling not badass enough, or does he have bad teeth?) and the way that he seems to have forced himself into the photo with the heavy metal band. Lol.

PutMeInCharge4OneDay said...

Dawn,

In the dogs in service blog they pointed out that THREE pit bull fatalities were when the person being attacked "probably had a seizure that provoked said attack"

So which is it- can they be seizure alert dogs or does that give them an "out" when they kill.

From the "dogs in service blog"---

"We'd like to point out that since 2005, pit bulls have killed at least 3 people with seizure disorders. In each case, the unwitnessed seizure was offered as the reason for the fatal attack. These victims include: Kelli Chapman, Brandon Coleman and Lorinze Reddings."

http://dogsinservice.blogspot.com/p/pit-bull-servicetherapy-dogs.html

Interestingly enough I do believe my friend said that the pit bull in her class alerted to seizures. She did not pay much attention to the note as she has no problem with a pit bull being in her class.

Wow pitties are incredibly gifted as seizure alert dogs heres another one-

Article about fake service dogs with photo-

http://www.federalwaymirror.com/news/147080865.html

70dd0968-b7d2-11e1-92d9-000bcdcb5194 said...

BW, this iss interesting:

"It is a terrible, wasting disease that is spread primarily through blood-to-blood exchanges during dog-fighting matches."

Besides teh fact that Pit owner are more likely to be "negligent" owners, could this be why so many dogs found starved are Pits? They're just that diseased?

Are shelters testing for this? Can they be required to euthanize because if it, since it can be spread by insect bite?

Does the parasite infect any other hosts? Cats? People? Livestock?

PutMeInCharge4OneDay said...

I wonder if that was the "mystery disease" they referred to when best friends euthanized this vick dog last year- (obviously if you are trying to soft sell the babesia as an easy to treat issue now, you sure don't want to list it as cause of death)

"One of the rescued pit bulls, otherwise known as the Vicktory dogs, saved from the dog fighting ring bankrolled by Michael Vick in 2007 was euthanized after coming down with an unknown illness.

11-year-old Ellen was living at Best Friends Animal Society in Utah. Sadly, she began rapidly, and inexplicably, losing weight and muscle leaving her caregivers with humane euthanasia as the only choice after exhausting all other options.

Even though the opinion of many at the time was to destroy these dogs because they believed they would never have normal lives, the Vicktory dogs got a second chance at life proved them wrong and continuing to live as shining examples of what dedication and love can do.

“I’ve never had a dog who was so affectionate,” said caregiver Maddie Haydon. “She bonded with everyone she met.”

Even though she wasn’t allowed to interact with visitors directly until last month, per court order, Ellen still touched guests and others who met her.

http://www.care2.com/causes/michael-vick-dog-fighting-survivor-euthanized.html

tropical storms said...

I believe B.G. is also transmitted sexually. This is the reason some of the high dollar breeders started selling semen instead of live cover. Patrick started this trend several years ago and it has been followed now by several of them. They're still rolling and matching their dogs so I think it's just a way to keep most visitors off their yards. Either that or they're just REALLY stupid. I think it can also be spread by shared food and water bowls if I remember correctly.

Branwyne Finch said...

Putme, I also recall that Leo, the Vick dog that was supposedly a "therapy dog" died not long ago, mysteriously, of a "seizure disorder". Babesia can cause neurological disorders like seizures, and some of the drugs used to treat it can also.

I found a piece by a researcher who is an expert in B gibsoni on a pit bull forum...

http://www.gopitbull.com/health-nutrition/45675-babesia.html

He notes it may be possible that fleas are transmitting it. When asked if human to dog transmission is possible, he says it "highly unlikely"....but her does say it's impossible. He also adds,

" As they should with all infectious disease, immuno-compromised individuals and people without spleens should take extra care."

So lets just think about the fact that possibly infected Vick dogs were paraded through cancer wards as "therapy dogs", to interact with immuno-compromised patients receiving chemo-therapy. In addition, infected dogs are providing a reservoir for this disease, and helping it spread.

dawn james said...

branwyne, i completely forgot about LEO. i added a link to him too.

babesia gibsoni appears to not be transmitted to cats or people. still, infectious dogs should not be in hospitals.

it's criminal that these bunco artists are releasing extremely aggressive disease riddled dogs into the community. makes me wonder about the prevalence of babesia among rescued and adopted pit bulls with unknown histories.

i wish i could edit my comments. "well, it certainly go into reinforcing the BFAS vick dog containment fields."

should have read "DID NOT go into reinforcing..."

dawn james said...

tropical storms, it probably is transmitted sexually. i read it was transmitted from bitch to pups in the womb.

bentonbergny said...

Wasn't Layla one of the Vick pit bulls that escaped confinement at Best Friends and killed the sanctuary dog Beans?

On another note, do you realize how many dogs could have been adopted out, nice friendly dogs, thast Layla took the place of for 6years? All those other dogs are dead.

bentonbergny said...

Even with the hundreds of thousands of dollars they got to to take the Vick dogs, volunteer help, millions of dollars in contributions, out on the desert away from society, Best Friends COULD NOT stop two of the Vick pit bulls from killing a sanctuary dog right on Best Friends premises.

http://exfriender.wordpress.com/

So what do you think someone in an apartment or suburban home with kids playing and dogs being walked outside the windows, or playing in their own yards, can do to control Layla and prevent death?

Best Friends is begging for someone (or someone's pets) to die so they can abandon a dog that is expensive to maintain.

You realize that is what this is all about. Best Friends wants to keep the money to themselves as they have a big overhead of megasalaries for themselves and abandon these dogs that are so costly to insure and maintain.

They were supposed to kweep these dogs for their lifetimes.

Sure seems that Best Friends is cutting that length of time short to save money.

bentonbergny said...

The CGC is fraud.

Canine Good Citizen with the sweetie pie name but ugly fraud.

It has no validity whatsoever.

It is just a marketing tool for the sham dog trainer and behaviorist business.

bentonbergny said...

It doesn't seem to be posting but I found the link with the details on the two Vick pit bulls that escaped confinement at Best Friends and killed Beans at the sanctuary. Beans was not a Vick dog.

You can find the link if you go to exfriender

then dot wordpress

dot com

Can anyone post the link? It is a good one to see how Best Friends handled this killing and how they try to cover the truth.

Even with the hundred thousands they got with the Vick dogs, volunteers, a place in the desert, and millions of contributions they couldn't secure the Vick pit bulls enough to prevent killing.

How can someone in an apartment or suburb do it?

Best Friends is cultivating a death, either of pets or a person.

scorched earth said...

But the Animal Farm Foundation pays an approved organization holding CGC testing $150 per each pit bull passing the CGC.

Some clubs are raking in thousands of dollars a year on this particular scam.

Ms. Berkey is shameless...

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Scorched Earth,

Yeah, pit nutters cry breed discrimination and then have all these programs targeted as pit bull only.

Discounted and free training, CGC "rebates", reduced and free spay/neuter, reduced and free immunizations. All for pit bulls.

Heck, I feel discriminated against now.

mallardhead said...

Is Furry Friends the place that had a TV a couple of years ago? n

mallardhead said...

meant TV show

Branwyne Finch said...

I am still trying to digest this story...basically, they need to find someone with Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy, who will be interested in adopting an elderly dog with serious behavior/aggression problems....who took six years of full time training and prep just to have five good minutes in a controlled environment where all she was asked to do is display basic leash manners.

To sweeten the deal, she has a contagious parasitic infection that will mean years of suffering and expensive vet treatment just to manage, because there is no cure.

Oh, and you must be willing to expose other dogs to being bitten by her, and being infected with this disease, so she can learn to love "playdates"!

But it's all worth it, because you will have a GREAT story to tell at cocktail parties, about the Vick dog you own, and how horrible Vick was, and what a mess the dog is, and what a hero you are for adopting her! Plus, you will get to make frequent trips to the vet and get all that attention from the doctors and techs there discussing babesia treatment and what it's like to own a genuine Vick dog!

Do I have this right?

scorched earth said...

You have it exactly right.

And there will be no notification sent to your local Animal Control that this dog is headed their way, no inspection of your home to make sure it is secure enough to contain this dangerous dog. No insurance requirements are stated.

What could go wrong?

Branwyne Finch said...

It also boggles my mind that this dog, a Vick dog, the subject of endless books, documetaries, magazine articles, blogs, etc....such a high profile dog essentially has no place to go, and has to be placed on Petfinder to beg the general public to take her? If this were any other breed, someone in the breed community would have quietly come forward to provide a proper home. Think about it......all the pit advocates, rescue angels, visitors to Best Friends, volunteers at BadRap and Best Friends, all the trainers and dog experts that sing Laylas praises, all the soldiers of the pit bull civil rights movement,and no one can put forth one person who is a breed expert who would be willing to take this on?

That alone tell me a lot. They need to find a home with no other pets? The problem is that experienced dog lovers and animals lovers will already have a dog or other pets. That means they are looking for an inexperienced owner....the worst possible home for this dog.

This would NEVER happen in the Golden retreiver community....an elderly dog with serious health problems would have little problem finding a home for her remaining years, as long as she didn't have serious aggression problems....but a Golden with serious aggression problems would be humanely euthanized, regardless of how high profile she was, or whether or not the rescue could make money using her story to fundraise.

PutMeInCharge4OneDay said...

Branwyne,

When you put it that way, who could refuse a dog like that...........lol

But what better dog for a rescue angel/nutter to have.

The provenance on this dog is worth more then all the platinum on the planet to them.





snack sized dog said...

This is just too sickening. The strangest things for me is that there really are no takers for these reject Vick dogs. They are scraping the bottom of the barrel.

But BFAS will stop at nothing to adopt them out because they're thinking about the long view - when they can look back and hoping to be able to say all the adoptable vick dogs were adopted...

The idea that they would bring a dog infected with a protazoan into a hospital leaves me in awe. Also, I wonder a tolerable babesia infection might make a pit bull more tractable...

Just amazing.

Rumpelstiltskin said...

Snack Sized Dog,

Yeah, I can see a pit nutter "adopting" the mauling machine, then off to the dog park.

Bragging about his Vic pit then OOPS, "Your dog started it, but my dog finished it" excuse.

dawn james said...

"someone with Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy, who will be interested in adopting an elderly dog with serious behavior/aggression problems....who took six years of full time training and prep just to have five good minutes in a controlled environment where all she was asked to do is display basic leash manners.

To sweeten the deal, she has a contagious parasitic infection that will mean years of suffering and expensive vet treatment just to manage, because there is no cure.

Oh, and you must be willing to expose other dogs to being bitten by her, and being infected with this disease, so she can learn to love "playdates"!

But it's all worth it, because you will have a GREAT story to tell at cocktail parties, about the Vick dog you own, and how horrible Vick was, and what a mess the dog is, and what a hero you are for adopting her! Plus, you will get to make frequent trips to the vet and get all that attention from the doctors and techs there discussing babesia treatment and what it's like to own a genuine Vick dog!"


the title of branwyne's comment should read: TRUTH IN ADVERTISING. what intelligent well-adjusted people who make decisions based on reason and logic see when they read through best friends blatant attempt to manipulate the dumb and the psychologically damaged into taking LAYLA on as their next project.

SPECIAL people, ie rescue angels, only see "vicktory dog" "rescued" "hard life's journey" "social butterfly wiggles with joy" "arthritis" "cuddle buddy" "very sad history" to evoke that "ooh poor baby, i only want to hold you close and tell you everything will be alright because no one ever did that for me" sentiment.
basically BFSA asks people are you SPECIAL enough to be LAYLA'S FIRST forever home?

BFAS understands their target audience and how to market these mutants with the best of them.

there are status dogs for thugs, young ripped pits that require heavy collars and chains to control them because they want to kill everything in sight. these people reinforce the reputation of pits. these pit owners want to be feared. and then there are status dogs for rescue angels, special needs pits that will require that you devote every waking minute to meeting her needs so you can humbly brag to everyone about your awesome sacrifice. these people fight to disprove the reputation of pits. these pit owners want to be admired. (both are dangerous to society)
LAYLA falls in the latter category. so does PINEY

orangedog said...

Can someone tell me what the difference is between impulse "saving" one of these dogs and impulse buying a pet store puppy? Answer: One is less likely to go on a mauling spree. Here's a good look at why our shelters are so strapped for cash. Look at all these pits. Why on earth don't nutters want breeding bans so all these dogs wouldn't be in this situation??

http://urgentpetsondeathrow.org/dogs/

skeptifem said...

Its common sense that knowingly adopting out a dangerous animal is a bad idea. It should be illegal. I'm trying to figure out which politicians in utah to write about this.

Branwyne Finch said...

I did a little more digging on B gibsoni....the ABPT community knows about it, they just won't do anything. I found one study that included three APBT kennels in N.C., which described an "epizootic of B. Gibsoni in APBT kennels in N.C." Since this is a disease that affects only dogs, there is not a lot of research funding to study it, naturally. If it is spreading around the country, I am not sure anyone will be tracking it.

It would be tragic if this disease becomes more prevalent in the general dog population, as it will ultimately become a death sentence for many dogs because of the expense of treating it. The pit bull breeder/owner/rescue community doesn't care...they don't want the publicity. The reality is that ALL pit bull rescues should be testing for it, and euthanizing dogs that test positve, OR, at a minimum, telling prospective adopters what they are facing.

A lot of rescue groups, like BadRap, have centered their pit bull marketing campaigns around the "rehabilitation" of fight bust dogs; if word gets out that MANY fight bust dogs are infected with this, it will derail their attempts to get them adopted out.

This is another serious potential threat to the "normal" dog population, in addition to the mortal threat posed by fighting breeds that want to kill other dogs.

tropical storms said...

It's not possible to get BG out of bulldog populations as it's spread through body fluids. Those dogs being rolled or matched will continue to spread it. Their pups will inherit the disease and spread it through shared feed/water bowls, toys and play. Rescuing a combat dog or one from a yard of pit dogs is an astronomical risk for many reasons, this is just one more.

snarky said...


oh dear , oh dear , bg is the wrath of god toward dog . bull dog .

Packhorse said...

I figure rescues don't care to test because they secretly know most of their rescued pits will be euthanized in a year or two of their adoptions anyway.

dawn james said...

they also likely don't test because it is yet another marker for the fact that their "dogs" are different.

vintage said...



What kills me about all this is that 117 Americans have been killed by pit bulls since the Vick bust in April 2007.

http://www.fatalpitbullattacks.com/index.php

In stark contrast are the 9 Vick Beagles that were immediately adopted out into loving homes without fanfare, never to be heard from again.

Beagle DBRFs= ZERO


Always remember...BREEDING DOES NOT MATTER!

*DISCLAIMER...You Can't Make This Stuff UP!

orangedog said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
orangedog said...

But Vintage, there are MILLIONS of pit bulls so we shouldn't let that paltry little handful of deaths color our perception of wigglebutts. A (50 lb) Pomeranian killed someone once too. /nutter

snarky said...


yeah vintage .

and why do all these idiots have these millions of pits if theyre all so sweet and innocent ?

i doubt your average pitter wants a tough looking dog to lick people to death . you dont buy a hummer if what you really want is an accord .

mind u , pitters r kinda dumb

Sandy Klocinski said...

How can you say this? The Vick Dogs were terrorized, slaughtered, and conditioned to kill each other. OF COURSE she has issues. Does that mean she doesn't deserve a real chance? Should we kill all the children that are victims of child abuse, because it's too much work to help them? You are disgusting. Why do you hate dogs? NONE of this is Leyla's fault. Poor thing, you are the monster.

Jake said...

@Sandy Klocinski -

You are repeating a fallacy when say that Vick dogs somehow had to be "terrorized" in order to make them want to kill other dogs. Nothing of the sort is needed, the genetic motor patterns are already there, thanks to hundreds of years of selecting for traits that make a good, game pit bull. Indeed, the real trick would be somehow to keep pit bulls from killing other dogs.

Just as pointers were bred to point, retrievers were bred to retrieve, shepherds were bred to herd, and livestock guardians were bred to protect, so pit bulls were bred to torture and kill sentient, feeling animals for sport, to attack without warning, to ignore peace signals or submission signals from the other dog, and to press the attack regardless of injuries suffered, to continue torturing the victim, regardless of whether he fights back, submits, or tries to run away.

One might well say "it's not the fault of the pit bulls, they are simply doing what the human monsters created them to do, but what is the answer to the nightmare - to keep on breeding and promoting them like crazy? And sacrificing ever more innocent dogs, cats, ponies, sheep and toddlers?

No, it's time to let the nightmare mercifully end. We don't blame rabid dogs for being rabid, but does that mean we have to promote them and make more of them?

Miss Margo said...

"When Ms. Klocinsky's IQ reaches 50, she ought to sell."

dawn james said...

miss margo, you are on fire today!

tropical storms said...

@Jake, well said. They are less at fault for their actions than we humans. Therefore we are completely responsible form ending the problems. Funnily enough there's a recently made champion pit dog named Jake. He's now replicating. We've a long way to go in solving the pit dog problem.

dawn james said...

kenji x the psychopath is feeling neglected.

vintage said...

GREAT MICHAEL VICK "LOST DOGS" MOMENTS IN HISTORY:

JULY 2008: Meet JR the beagle who was used for blood transfusions and landed in a home without six years of rehab....

http://hamptonroads.com/2008/07/vick-dog-now-cherished-member-acredale-family

***Note...This is the last known article about the 9 Beagles, two Rottweilers and one Cane Corso that were seized during the Vick raid...Subsequent articles only refer to the 48 pit bulls.

Truly, the "Lost Dogs"!

*Disclaimer...You Can't Make This Stuff Up!

vintage said...

GREST CORRECTIONS IN PIT BULL HISTORY:

The US Pit DBRF total is now 118 since the Vick Bust in April 2007...

http://www.kwqc.com/story/21446048/dog-attack-kills-galesburg-boy


Sigh...I wish I was Making This Up.

bentonbergny said...

Sandy, you are being used by groups like Best Friends that take your money and don't fulfill their promises. They were supposed to care for this dog for life. Instead they've been killing Vick dogs and letting them kill sanctuary dogs. They also have been enabling pit bull breeders and dog fighters to breed more and more of these dogfs to abuse.

If with their multi millions they can't control the dog from killing, what do you think happens when the dog goes to your neighbor's?

When a Layla kills your dogs, we will remind you of your words.

You clearly don't want to give your own pets a chance by welcoming dog-killing dogs to move into your neighborhood to kill your pets.

Do you know how to spell hypocrite?

Also gullible?

bentonbergny said...

Sandy has a picture on her page of exactly the kind of small dogs that pit bulls are slaughtering every day.

Sankdy is enabling that.

Sandy, you are doing nothing but helping dog fighters kill innocent small dogs that deserve a chance to live their lives in peace.

bentonbergny said...

Do a search for
"exfriender best friends beans vick"

read what exfriender has to say.

You're being fleeced.

Even Best Friends employees say BF isn't taking good care of the dogs. They let the Vick dogs kill sanctuary dogs and tried to hide it.

Gullible girls like Sandy don't even knowed they are being fleeced.

Freya said...

Yeah Jake and what were Akita's bred to do? NOT fight other dogs; pretty sure they were bred exactly for that actually. Still probably are used in places for that same reason. Hypocrite. Don’t own a fighting breed dog and then talk shit about another fighting breed dog. You just look stupid. Except to the people just as stupid as you.

orangedog said...

Akitas were bred to hunt bear and boar and there was a brief time before WWII that people fought them. Dog fighters haven't used Akitas for a long time.

Freya said...

Yeah, sure thing. I’m sorry, but I think if a dog is capable of injuring the “world’s MOST dangerous dog” in a dog fight than it’s definitely a fighting dog.

http://www.bcdailybuzz.com/media/5355/Pitbull_Attacked/

http://www.bcdailybuzz.com/thumbs/a6652500627a.jpg

Not to mention the damage it’s capable of doing in general:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/dads-horror-as-killing-machine-akita-1068818

“James, who agreed to pictures of her injuries being published to show the horror of the attack, said: "I just don't see the point in having these dogs. They are bred for fighting and killing, so how can anyone justify having them around kids?”

-The above statement is referring to an Akita. I'm sure that father would disagree with your statement of pit bulls being the most aggressive and dangerous dog breed. Actually I'm pretty sure he would be happy with ALL dangerous dogs being outlawed. Can't wait for that to happen in America. With people like you in the world it's bound to happen sooner or later.

Freya said...

Oh and here’s a dog that was attacked by a pack of Akita’s:
http://www.times-series.co.uk/news/8197806.pet_owners_call_for_action_against_owners_of_threatening_dogs/
You know what’s really interesting, this:
http://northwalesandchestercwu.org/Letters%20To%20branch/Dogs1.htm
Oh and there’s pictures so you can see the damage that OTHER breeds inflict on people as well.
The dogs listed: bull mastiff, Akita, collie, Rottie, Rottie, Akita, Staffie, Shar-pei, Alsation(GSD), Unknown, Border Collie, Staffie, Unknown, Akita/Alsation(girl almost had her face sliced off by a fighting dog, hm second article referencing an Akita that attacked as a FIGHTING DOG), Rottie, French Mastiffs, Bull Mastiff, Unknown, Rhodesian Ridgeback, Rottie, Akita, 3 Rotties, Staffie, French Bullmastiff, Staffie, Staffie, West Highland Terrier, esc.
Interesting:
“Family's border collie leaps into car and mauls baby, 7 months, who nearly loses a leg”
“Seven-year-old boy savaged by hunting dog was 'saved from death' by hero dad” (Akita- what is that the 5th one right?)
“Toddler, 2, left scarred for life after being mauled by eight-stone family dog”(6th Akita)
“Boy, 9, left needing plastic surgery after being mauled by Japanese Akita dog” (7th)
-You know I should start my own blog. THE DANGERS OF AKITAS!!! MUST BE REMOVED FROM WORLD!!!! NOT SAFE PETS!!! Sounds good, no?
You know what really obvious when looking at all those pictures, the fact that all of those people have HORRIBLE fucking facial scars and skin ripped off their faces. Do you see the girl attacked by a GSD, the people attacked by Akitas? DO YOU SEE THAT?
Tell me any dog is safe and can’t seriously injure a person and that pit bulls are the only really dangerous dogs in this country or this world. Some of those attacks by other dog breeds are WORSE than the bulldog and pit bull and even mastiff attacks. That's crazy.

orangedog said...

Yep, those attacks sure are more serious than the five deaths so far this year - all by pit bulls.
Sure, go start an anti-Akita movement. There aren't enough Akitas around that many people will care, but it's a free country. I will say that the Akita community doesn't flog their hunting dogs as "nannies" and use children as props. Akitas aren't for most people and the Akita people are pretty up front about it.
So yeah, you can find some attacks by other breeds. No one disputes that, Dimwit. When they add up to over 50% of all fatal attacks, like pit bulls, come back and let us know.
A kid was killed yesterday by a lovable nanny dog that had never shown aggression before - and that already knew the kid. I'm sure the owners beat it daily and were secretly dog fighters. *rolleyes
Immediately, the nutters showed up to defend the dog and stomp all over the grieving community. This is why everyone who doesn't like pits thinks you are all sociopathic shitheads. Why did nanny go psycho?

orangedog said...

Also, I don't want to make light of any dog attack. No one should lose a limb or be disfigured because some morons can't control their dogs.
Your problem is that you don't recognize the problem in your own backyard. Pits are in the news every.single.day shredding someone's pet (you have never once acknowledged this problem), killing a child, or an adult (I think we are at around once every ten days now), getting shot by police, or pulling limbs off a postman.
So your little "point" is like comparing apples to oranges with a grenade stuffed inside.
Clean up the pits first and I guarantee the dog attacks go down a ton - because this shit wasn't happening DAILY before pits were mainstreamed as "pets".

70dd0968-b7d2-11e1-92d9-000bcdcb5194 said...

Freya = willfully ignorant

Like the dogs she "loves" she's in this to "win" no matter the cost.

Too darned dense to understand she's not winning anything.

Pathetically bored and maladjusted, this is the best and highest purpose she can find in her life.

Analyzing her character is much more interesting that trying to make sense of her feeble arguments.

Keep it comin', "girl", at least you're entertaining. Everyone loves a train wreck.

dawn james said...

70dd0968-b7d2-11e1-92d9-000bcdcb5194,

ROTFLMAO!

april 29 said...

"Analyzing her character is much more interesting that trying to make sense of her feeble arguments."

LOL!!! And true.

snarky said...


not smart enuf to know shes dumb.

orangedog said...

The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes.

Jake said...

@Freya -

Do you actually suppose that if you find some example of another breed biting someone, that somehow proves that all dogs are equal? You fail to comprehend the huge difference in scale. How is it that you can spend hours scouring the internet to find some mention of another breed biting someone, while at the same time, you rationalize away the pit bull atrocities that happening every few hours?

You specifically mentioned Akitas, an ancient type of dog which admittedly have some fighting breeds (Mastiff/Tosa) in their lineage, and did go through a period of dog fighting activity in 1800s Japan, but on the other hand, pit bulls were created from the start specifically for the killing pit, and are still being bred for that bloody and violent purpose today.

Yes, American Akitas do commonly exhibit animal aggression, and have injured people. But pit bulls, in addition to animal aggression, have the charming genetic propensity for sudden random, utterly unpredictable violence.

To me, the most significant difference between Akitas and pit bulls is that Akitas don't kill their owners.

Packhorse said...

The last time I saw someone walking an Akita in my neck of the woods was a good decade ago. Wish pit bulls were that rare.

Jake said...

@Packhorse -

I see akitas every now and then around the town, but they are not common, and the Akita owners I've talked to don't want them to become popular.

I wish pit bulls were rare in my neck of the woods. A very nice chihuahua just around the corner from me was badly mauled by the pit bull across the street, which "somehow" got loose, and went straight for the poor chi.

Fortunately the Chi her owners were right there, and managed to pry the mutant off before the chi was dead. The Chi was rushed to the vet and thankfully survived, but the Chi owners were stuck with a $1700 vet bill.

snarky said...


yep , theres something special bout shitbull owners ....... lets call it the SLEEZE FACTOR ....SLIME FACTOR ...whatever , i dont want that slime on me or my dog . very bad germs in pitter/pit slime . course what else would you expect ? like having the devil bite your ass !!!

Freya said...

"Analyzing her character is much more interesting that trying to make sense of her feeble arguments."

Yes because it’s become quite obvious to psychologist everywhere that the best way to determine a person’s character is by reading what they write on a blog about pit bulls. Forget the extensive questioners and multiple other studies and test used to determine a person’s personality. Obviously that is all obsolete and they should have been studying blog comments years ago.

Not to mention that I’ve stopped being completely serious and started bullshitting throughout most of my comments since pretty much everything I write goes over your heads. So anything you determine about my character from that would be completely insincere.


“Pathetically bored and maladjusted, this is the best and highest purpose she can find in her life.”

Oh obviously. As a pit bull owner I don’t even have a blog about pit bulls. Seriously, you people devote you lives to these dogs more so than the average owner. Blogs, internet searches for articles about pit bulls to post comments on, constantly waiting for that next attack you can use to your own benefit. That type of behavior obviously shows a well-adjusted person with a life.

Freya said...

Orangedog,

“Immediately, the nutters showed up to defend the dog and stomp all over the grieving community. This is why everyone who doesn't like pits thinks you are all sociopathic shitheads. Why did nanny go psycho”

First of all, I never bother to go on any of those articles and post anything because I agree with you that it’s absolutely disrespectful to the families of the people killed and it is heartless. Also, I don’t believe in the nanny dog bullshit and personally would not own most dog breeds including a pit bull if I actually had children.

“Pits are in the news every.single.day shredding someone's pet (you have never once acknowledged this problem),”

I do acknowledge the problem but I don’t believe it’s a reason for the breed to not exist. Just a reason to stress responsible ownership, lower population, and have only people who actually acknowledge the fact they’re dog aggressive and are capable of owning and handling the breed responsibly.

You have someone on here that owns a dog breed that is known to be VERY aggressive to other dogs. I’m sure Jake, as a responsible dog owner, does his best to make sure his dog doesn’t kill another dog the same as I do with mine. No dog parks for the Akita owner either. No allowing his dog to interact with unknown dogs, hopefully.

You don’t like dogs that are a danger to other dogs than don’t just pick on the pit bull because there are plenty of other breeds and dogs of other breeds that just don’t like other dogs. The breed standard of the Akita blatantly states they can be VERY aggressive to other dogs. Same as a pit bull can be.

I completely disagree with the way most pit bull advocates do things. They should make it clear that the pit bull is not a dog for everyone and can be dog aggressive and should be handled as such. Is it my fault that all these other people are running around talking out of their ass?

You make it seem like the opinions of another pit bull owner is automatically the opinion of EVERY pit bull owner. That’s not the case. That is what really gets me so annoyed. You can’t judge EVERY pit bull owner as being the same based off the actions of other owners. It’s ridiculous.

“Clean up the pits first and I guarantee the dog attacks go down a ton - because this shit wasn't happening DAILY before pits were mainstreamed as "pets".”

Clean up absolutely. Something needs to be done and I would never deny that. Force the breed into extinction, absolutely not. If the breed was as rare as Akita’s I would be absolutely enthusiastic. That way I could own the breed without being bitched at and treated like less than dirt by people like you when I’m really being one of the responsible people that actually know how to handle the fucking dog I own.

Over all, pit bull type dogs are owned by too many idiots and bred by too many idiots. So yes, the pit bull dogs do need to be cleaned up in a lot of ways. Exterminated, absolutely not. Even in the UK they never banned the Staffie. It’s the 5th most popular breed over there. Yet you have people in this country including them in breed bans left and right. Real APBT are a rare find. Most are mutts, most are too big, most “purebreds” are really predominantly Mastiffs with some pit bull mixed in there. That needs to be cleaned up ASAP. They’re ugly and they shouldn’t be bred and sold as APBT because they’re not. Once the breeders are adequately handled and people start actually informing other people about the responsibility needed in handling such breeds and telling people the facts so that people know they’re not breeds for just anyone than a lot of the problems being dealt with at this time will be eliminated to a great extent.

bentonbergny said...

Freya, you're a member of the underclass being used by pit bull breeders and fighters to further their financial interests.

They use peons with little sense to help them abuse the dogs themselves.

You're just helping them stick it to the dogs too, the dogs you supposedly love.

It looks like you will cling to being a member of the underclass for the rest of your life. I don't think you are even aware that you are being used.

Jake said...

@Freya -

You say that just because pit bulls want to kill people's pets is no reason to stop making more of them. I'm curious what would be a valid reason not to keep making more of them.

At any rate, the idea that responsible ownership is the key might have some theoretical merit, but the constant fight against any regulation of the breed simply guarantees that idiots and sociopaths will continue to have pit bulls, and the slaughter will continue.

I certainly don't think making sure pit bulls are pure bred is any sort of answer - good, game pit bulls doing what they were bred for is the problem, not the solution.

Freya said...

“Freya, you're a member of the underclass being used by pit bull breeders and fighters to further their financial interests.”

LMFAO. You know there are thousands of people in this world that believe that the majority of the presidents in this country were pagan devil worshipers because they were associated with the Masons. They think most celebs; especially singers have sold their souls to the devil and are brain washing children and people across the world with their music.

Then there are people like you that believe that everyone and anyone associated with pit bulls is involved with dog fighters or being used by them.

It’s called being delusional. You should try to get some help for that. There’s too many fucking crazy people in this world as it is.

Freya said...

“You say that just because pit bulls want to kill people's pets is no reason to stop making more of them. I'm curious what would be a valid reason not to keep making more of them”

You can’t be serious? You own an Akita right? I’m assuming that you do considering you have a picture of one. Do you know anything about the breed you own? I mean really. Do you understand what DA is? What a dog reactive dog is like? You own a breed of dog that is dangerous to other dogs just as much as a pit bull. Except you dog is huge and capable of taking down a pit bull more often than not according to a few sources, so which is really more dangerous. If a pit bull can’t even defend itself against the breed of dog you own in most cases that pretty much tells you right there that you own a beast of an animal.

Pit bulls don’t have it built into their heads that they want to kill other dogs. It’s not like they rationalize the situation and think to themselves about killing other dogs. Some won’t like other dogs and if they do get into a fight with another dog they could potentially kill it. There’s also prey drive associated with the terrier breeds that can result in prey aggression directed to smaller animals such as cats and small dogs.

Over all if a dog is so severely DA that it can’t be kept under control I would say that it would probably be for the best to put the dog down. Not all pit bulls are going to be lunging at the ends of the leashes to get other dogs. Some don’t even dislike dogs but it would be for the best to just avoid interactions with unknown dogs, as is the case for my own dog. Some are only dog reactive where they will ignore most dogs but if a dog approaches them and invades their space they might react.

snarky said...

freya.
craven thot u were gone .

i didnt . lol

snarky said...



whats a little " pole dancing "

tween friends ? lol

Freya said...

“I certainly don't think making sure pit bulls are pure bred is any sort of answer - good, game pit bulls doing what they were bred for is the problem, not the solution.”

Now that I have time to respond to this,

This is why I feel that people that have no understanding of the breeds that are referred to as pit bulls should be writing blogs and commenting about the dogs as if they really know anything.

I’m going to be completely honest with you here. EVERY single blue pit I have ever met in my life has had issues with aggression. I had a friend that owned a red nose purebred APBT that was between 50-60 pounds. An intact male that was the sweetest dog ever. He also had an intact bitch that was a blue “APBT” that was twice the size of the male and was the one that always was aggressive and had actually tried to bite him on multiple occasions. The people that breed those dogs breed for color and size not temperament. I would NEVER bring a blue pit bull into my home EVER. They aren’t usually bred to have sound temperaments and those are the ones I find dangerous to people.

They’re not bred responsibly, they’re predominantly bred by BYBs looking for money who don’t care about the temperament of the dogs, and I don’t trust that.

I know plenty of pit bull people disagree and most people love blue pits but they’re not always real APBT. Some lines are mutts, with mastiff bred in for size and color, and they’re bred irresponsibly. There’s pit bull people that say the blue coloring is natural to the breed and is a diluted form of the black coloring but it is a recessive gene and shouldn’t appear as often as it does now a days. Blue pits used to be extremely rare and now they’re extremely common and that wouldn’t be possible if the coloring only came from breeding purebred APBT, it’s impossible. They’re also WAY to big, APBT should only be about 60 pounds the most for males, those blue pits are huge dogs and that amount of size with bad breeding and questionable temperaments is extremely dangerous.

So no I don’t believe they should be specifically bred for. If one pops up occasionally that’s normal but breeders that breed specifically for color rather than temperament are idiots and they’re the ones putting dangerous dogs out into the world. The breed specifically is not dangerous. The dogs being bred by BYBs such as the XXXL blue pit breeders are breeding dogs with unsound temperaments so they can make big bucks and that’s what’s dangerous.

april 29 said...

* eye roll *

You just know when Freya starts out with "Now that I have time to respond to this" it will be a pip. After the usual blather she inserts this comment "The breed specifically is not dangerous."

Six dead Americans since the first of the year might disprove your statement. Babies and senior citizens, are these people disposable?

I swear, I will never read another word from Freya.

Jake said...

@Freya -

I see now that you mean to "educate" us, but honestly, I'm not seeing anything different in your ideas about pit bulls than the talking points we've heard before.

It's odd that you would talk about having knowledge of the breed, because I've noticed that the community here tends to be quite a bit more knowledgeable about pit bulls than the pit nutters themselves. I would encourage you to read some of the excellent essays at the truth blog, and check out the studies referenced at DBO.

As far as comparing pit bulls and Akitas, I addressed that above - did you not read my response to your earlier question?

bentonbergny said...

Freya, you are helping the dog fighters and pit bull breeders prey on the dogs that you claim to love, to a greater and greater degree.

Do you see that things are getting worse for pit bulls every year?

Being the underclass for the breeders, clamoring for no regulation, no regulation is hurting the dogs.

I know you don't care about anything else, and that pit bull is your religion, but your priest pit bull breeders are sacrificing the very dogs they have you worshipping, with the over breeding, selling to anybody, the lies.

It takes an intelligent, dignified human being to step back and say to themselves, hey, maybe I'm being used. Maybe I got jacked into being part of the problem. Maybe the people who claim to care about the dogs are just using them for profit.

The underclass, however, never opts for dignity. You'll keep screaming the propaganda as the dogs are dying by the millions.

snarky said...


but, blue shit-bulls are so gorgeous , freya . people like u , like them , and thats all that matters . its all about youse . thats the problem in a nutshell.

snack sized dog said...

Blogger is acting up again.
whenever Freya posts, I just see:
blahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblah

PutMeInCharge4OneDay said...

Freya is pure nutterdom.

Anyone that uses the term "real APBT" is a nutter and is fully imbibed on nutter Kool-aide.

Freya said...

“It's odd that you would talk about having knowledge of the breed, because I've noticed that the community here tends to be quite a bit more knowledgeable about pit bulls than the pit nutters themselves. I would encourage you to read some of the excellent essays at the truth blog, and check out the studies referenced at DBO.”

They have no understanding of the breeds (plural) that are labeled as pit bulls. All they understand is attacks and bullshit history they can find online. They don’t understand what’s really going on in the words of APBT terriers. What the real danger is. As if most of the dogs that attack are bred by reputable breeders and actually bred to standard. The dogs that attack usually don’t even have papers. They’re not purebred APBT. They’re not bred responsibly and that’s why they attack because they’re bred by idiots that are breeding dogs that aren’t healthy and have behavioral issues.

“Being the underclass for the breeders, clamoring for no regulation, no regulation is hurting the dogs.”

I’m not clamoring against regulation. Regulate the breeders that aren’t breeding REAL APBT and the problem will be solved to a great extent.

“I know you don't care about anything else, and that pit bull is your religion, but your priest pit bull breeders are sacrificing the very dogs they have you worshipping, with the over breeding, selling to anybody, the lies.

It takes an intelligent, dignified human being to step back and say to themselves, hey, maybe I'm being used. Maybe I got jacked into being part of the problem. Maybe the people who claim to care about the dogs are just using them for profit.”

Wow, well you obviously failed to read my post about blue pits in which I basically said everything you just mentioned above. That’s nice. I ALREADY know there are a shit ton of breeders that are breeding pit bulls for profit that are over breeding them and fucking shit up. The majority of those dogs they’re breeding aren’t REAL American Pit Bull Terriers. Do you understand that?

There’s a generic term, pit bull, which refers to a TYPE of dog. APBT refers to a specific breed of dog and the majority of the dogs attacking people are not fitting the breed standard of the REAL APBT. EVERY time you hear about a person getting attack by a dog that weighs 70+ pounds, that’s a MUTT not a real APBT. NOT a purebred dog. It’s been bred with mastiff and it’s bred by breeders breeding for SIZE and usually COLOR and not temperament which is why they are SO unstable.

Freya said...

PutMeInCharge4OneDay,

“Anyone that uses the term "real APBT" is a nutter and is fully imbibed on nutter Kool-aide”

Just because you have no knowledge about the actual breeds that you like to refer to as pit bulls does not make someone that is actually intelligent and knows how to actually educate themselves a nutter. You people know nothing about the actual breeds of dog that you refer to in your blogs and that you hate so much. It’s disgusting to think that anyone can actual take you people seriously.

Sputnik2009 said...

I'm quite amused. When I saw comments had doubled in just 24 hours, I knew for sure a pit nutter had jumped in. They do go on...and on...and on...

It's just a shame they never say anything valid or original.

Jake said...

@sputnik - yes, even the "no true scotsman" argument Freya is using has already been done to death by pit promoters. sigh.

Jake said...

On reflection perhaps I was being too coy or cryptic when I spoke of a logical fallacy above.

What I meant to discuss was this whole idea that a 'real' pit bull would never hurt anyone, that all the pit bull attacks come from badly bred, defective mutts.

Several points come to mind. First of all, did the poster have any idea where pit bulls came from? Did they suddenly spring from sweetness and light right here in America, where they served as nanny dogs and war heroes before those evil dog fighters realized they could fight?

No, the bully breeds were created specifically to torture and kill sentient, feeling mammals for the amusement of sadists in the UK as far back as the 1500s. It's important to realize that form follows function, and that the type of canine they created had not only the physical characteristics suited to the "work" of torturing and killing, but also a suitable nervous system and temperament. These canines weren't reluctant to attack, on the contrary, it felt good to them to do what they were bred for.

When bull baiting was outlawed in 1835, the sadistic monsters turned to a new "sport", pit fighting dogs. So these pit fighting bull dogs (pit bulls) would tear each other apart instead of an unwilling victim. Terrier was added to the bull dog for more energy and a more relentless attack, so the bull and terrier became the chosen type for this violent and bloody activity.

A premium was placed on gameness (the drive to continue the attack at all costs, ignoring pain and injury, regardless of whether the opponent fought back, submitted, or tried to run away) and sudden all out attack with zero warning.

So began the so-called staffordshire terrier, which was brought to America by dog fighters during the 1800s and continued to be bred for gameness, size and freakish insensitivity to pain. At some point it was named the "american" stafforshire terrier, and a registered amstaff can also be registered as an apbt.

The american bulldog is a pit derivative, and is just as game as a pit bull, only larger. I don't care to split hairs about whether the american bulldog is technically a pit bull, but it comes from the same lines, bred for the same sort of violent, relentless attack, so it all goes to the root of the same poisonous tree.

True to form, sadistic, profoundly ignorant people in rural america use ampubulls to torture pigs for sport.

In any case, it's clear that "good" pure-bred pit bulls, doing the work they were created for, are a problem. If you want to say that back yard breeders somehow make the pit bull even more game, I'd like to see what evidence indicates this. Where are the records kept that show the pedigree of the pit bulls involved in attacks (on humans or animals)? If there is some evidence I'd love to see it, as I'm always ready to modify my views in the light of new evidence, but it sounds like speculation, or an assertion made in the hopes that it's impossible to challenge.

tropical storms said...

Real bulldogs don't bite people? Zeno, real bulldog. Jocko, real bulldog. Honeybunch, real bulldog. Angus, real bulldog. Rascal, real bulldog. Bolio, real bulldog. There are many too many more to count but everyone at all familiar with the breed knows these dogs. No one ever culled a winner.

tropical storms said...

Should read Zebo, untrained browser.

scorched earth said...

Truer words were never spoken...

"No one ever culled a winner"

snarky said...


the nutters always come hear trying to sound very reasonable , but in time , degenerate into the pit-worshipers they really are . theres not much u can say to these types cuz they have a stupid answer for everything .

i may seem sarcastic and mean but really im just sick and tired of the bullshit .

Freya said...

If you’re really all that educated about pit bull breeds, not just the type, than it should be obvious to all of you that the majority or pit bull dogs are not being bred by responsible breeders but rather BYBs that breed the dogs for monetary purposes rather than to breed the dogs to the standard of the breed they’re breeding.

Obviously you all know that BYBs breed dogs that can potentially have both health and behavioral problems.

Behavioral problems such as aggression can lead to attacks on people which is the major problem of these dogs.

So rather than targeting the breeds specifically the best thing to do would be to target the BYBs and irresponsible breeders that are breeding these dogs.

I’ve already mentioned many times that you can’t expect pit bull enthusiast to take on the breeders of this country because regulating breeders upsets them ALL regardless of whether or not their breed is being targeted. They will worry they’ll be targeted next. Reputable breeders feel like they’ll be the only ones affected because BYBs won’t listen to the laws anyways.

So the main focus should be on figuring out laws that can target BYBs without hurting the reputable breeders so that breeders won’t feel that it endangers their hobby and their goal of bettering their breed regardless of what that breed may be.

Maybe you people aren’t stupid and just deceitful in the way you share specific information. If you really know more about pit bulls than the average owner than I have to wonder how you can logically think that the past purpose of these dogs as bull baiters and fighting dogs is what’s causing them to attack people. It really has nothing to do with the way they were bred in the past and everything to do with how they’re being bred NOW.

It’s funny because I can’t find any information on this blog about bull terriers accept some comments from Dawn and SOA. I wonder why you think the similar history and genetics of the Bull Terrier isn’t making them dangerous to people but that same past is what’s causing APBT, Amstaffs, and Staffies(barely) to be dangerous to people. That makes no sense. Just because they were bred for the upper class doesn’t make their history any more pleasant or innocent and they were bred back to pit bulls for color because of the multiple health problems breeding for pure white dogs caused.

So why are they not attacking people at such a high rate as other pit bull type dogs? I’m sure people wouldn’t be referring to them as pit bulls because most people don’t associate them as such even though that’s really what they are. So there can’t be that many people that would think of a bull terrier with their obvious egg shaped heads as a pit bull. Maybe if they were bred to look anything like they did in the past as some breeders are still doing today, although very few.

You don’t mention any of this stuff in your blog which makes me wonder why you try to avoid it. Maybe because you know that’s the thorn in your side. Your argument for pit bull dogs being aggressive because of their bloody past falls apart when you look at the fact that bull terriers aren’t really attacking people like that.

So why does their bloody past not make them aggressive to people but the bloody past of the other pit bull breeds does?

tropical storms said...

Breeding to the standard for bulldogs is to produce a superior athlete with extreme prey drive, intensity and gameness. That's actually the problem. The only function for which they were bred is now a felony. The standard of perfection in breeding dates from the early 1800s in written form and may be easily accessed from breeder/fighters publications from that time forward.

Freya said...

“No, the bully breeds were created specifically to torture and kill sentient, feeling mammals for the amusement of sadists in the UK as far back as the 1500s. It's important to realize that form follows function, and that the type of canine they created had not only the physical characteristics suited to the "work" of torturing and killing, but also a suitable nervous system and temperament. These canines weren't reluctant to attack, on the contrary, it felt good to them to do what they were bred for.”

Have you ever heard of a badger pit??

Small game bred dogs bred to go in after a badger and latch onto it so that the person could pull out the dog by the tail and drag the badger out with it. They would keep fighting, even though the badger was usually bigger and could probably easily kill them, they wouldn’t stop because they were bred to be game and to keep going after it no matter how badly it hurt them.

Yeah well those small dogs still exist and their in homes with children across the world. Think a small dog can’t fuck up a child’s face, go look for some attacks by small dogs, I’m sure your mind will be changed after that.

Bred right they shouldn’t attack people regardless.

Oh, one of the greatest and most game badger dogs was a Bull Terrier. Also used for dog fighting. Never really involved in attacking people on a regular basis. Probably because there’s not a majority of irresponsible breeders breeding them.

There were no bully breeds, they were just a type of dog that was never bred to look or conform to a specific standard. Breeds didn’t start forming till later on.

Bull Baiting may have existed as far back as the time of the Romans where it was a form of pagan worship. So “bull dogs” have been around longer than since the 1500s.

I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of ratting pits but you might want to look into that while you’re looking into badger pits.

I mean really, you guys know everything about pit bulls so I shouldn’t have to be bringing up this stuff. Obviously you just don’t understand what it means in the bigger picture of things.

Freya said...

“Despite having been illegal for over 170 years, badger baiting has continued in a clandestine manner throughout Britain and Ireland until the present day. In February 2009, the Sunday Times reported that badger-baiting is practised by "hardcore terrier men" who are internationally organized, and that a new breed of dog - a Patterdale Terrier cross - is gaining popularity among baiters. The Sunday Times has also reported that there is little attention on the part of the Irish government towards animal cruelty in general.[2] The report led to a police operation in Ulster in which a number of dogs were seized, but no arrests were made.[8]

In Ireland, the NPWS has secured ten convictions for the illegal persecution of badgers in the last 20 years.[2]

Badger baiting is currently believed to be on the rise according to animal welfare organizations.[9]”

^Here is some interesting information for you to read about badger baiting. The dogs they’re using are GAME dogs; it doesn’t matter if they’re small or not. They attack and they keep going. Make them popular and have a shit ton of BYBs start breeding them and then see what happens when they’re in homes with small kids. You’ll see people wanting to ban them too.

Freya said...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2167830/Caught-camera-The-sickening-photograph-grinning-thug-used-dog-hunt-kill-foxes-badgers.html

After this I'm done, but you should really look that this. That picture you have of the pit bull with it's top jaw ripped off, well there's some pictures in here of Patterdale Terriers that were trained by the owner to go in and kill foxes and badgers and one of the dogs faces got horribly messed up in the process. Really sad.

tropical storms said...

I personally have no problem with the gradual elimination of all bulldog breeds, breeds derived from them and crosses there of. Over the course of history many breeds, having outlived their purpose have become extinct. This happened not only to breeds of dogs but also horses, cattle, sheep, goats and poultry. If this was 200 years ago with the low human and canine populations and based around a rural community few people would care because few would be affected by anything their neighbors kept or did. In context of the time however it's time for them to go.

dawn james said...

"well there's some pictures in here of Patterdale Terriers that were trained by the owner to go in and kill foxes and badgers and one of the dogs faces got horribly messed up in the process."


BRED to kill badgers and foxes.

snarky said...

freya
i know that bull terrier fans are like shit bull lovers in that they want peops to believe their mutants are lil furry angels. sorry , but that doesnt wash either .

obtw : im all for byb's cus the rescues are all full of mutants.

snarky said...


freya :

my lil furry angel comes from a loving , responsible, back yard breeder and is sweet , smart and healthy .

i wouldnt piss on a rescue angel if her head wus on fire.

tropical storms said...

Just saw this. Off topic but another toddler bitten by sweet nanny mauler while visiting friends. Dundalk, MD. Oh well shit happens. Owner is so upset he may not want Raven back, call the rescue!

Jake said...

@Freya -

I'm not sure what your angle is here. You didn't dispute the bloody origins of the pit bull, but immediately go off on tangents about other types of dogs that aren't an epidemic of violence as pit bulls are.

I'm puzzled as to your motives in bringing up the endangerment of infants and toddlers in homes with pit bulls, knowing that pit bulls have maimed and killed more children than all other breeds combined. Your main argument here seems to be that not every pit bull is guaranteed to kill a child, so it's all good, right?

I don't know how you process facts like that, but I would never bring a canine IED into my home just hoping that it never goes off. My concern for innocent parties far outweighs my desire to make some proud and defiant statement of support for a dangerous breed.


Freya said...

Snarky you obviously don’t understand the concept of a BYB.

Exactly Dawn BRED, as were pit bulls bred for bull baiting and bear baiting and eventually dog “baiting”, so to speak.

They’re game bred dogs just as the small dogs that go in and kill foxes, badgers, and rats. Most of those dogs don’t go attacking people regardless of that fact because they’re not predominantly bred by BYBs to the extent that pit bull type dogs are. They don’t have the typical behavioral issues associated with badly bred dogs.

Again, fail to even bother commenting on my question Dawn. Why aren’t bull terriers attacking people that way that other pit bulls are? They’re game bred dogs too, not even considered for BSL in most cases because they’re not considered a problem.

When are you people going to realize that breeding for game bred dogs, as fucked up as it can be, isn’t the cause of attacks on humans. Bad breeding NOW is the problem, not the fact that they’re game bred.

Shit, if I lived on a farm I would want a game bred terrier. Get rid of the rats, rabbits, and ground hogs screwing with my plants and essentially my money, hell yeah.

Pit Bulls being used to hunt down hogs in areas where there such a problem that people literally can’t deal with it. I don’t see anything wrong with that. They’re extremely important in a situation like that.

Game bred dogs aren’t the problem, irresponsible breeders breeding them is the problem.

Using them for sports like badger baiting rather than for a specific necessary purpose is horrible but that’s the humans who are messed up in the heads, not the dogs themselves.

Tropical Storm,

It doesn’t really matter if you don’t have a problem with it because plenty of people would. You’re talking about a significant amount of breeds right there that for the majority aren’t causing a problem for anyone and are loved by many breed enthusiast.

You know what; while you’re at work trying to get rid of bulldogs you should put some focus on all the terrier breeds. You know, the ones bred for the bloody sport of rat baiting and badger baiting and fox baiting, hare hunting, esc.

You know, I’m sure the terrier breed enthusiast would love that.

You know… because bulldogs baiting bulls and bears isn’t the only bloody sports that dogs were ever bred for. Oh, and are still bred for till this day. Badger baiting is occurring in America as I write this. Those dogs being bred in Ireland are being shipped over here right now, not back in the 1500s. Although it was considered side entertainment during the bull baiting time period. Great source of income for the gamblers and other dirt bags of that time period.

Oh and don’t forget some of the hunting dogs, the ones bred to kill not just locate and flush things out or the prairie.

Freya said...

“I'm puzzled as to your motives in bringing up the endangerment of infants and toddlers in homes with pit bulls, knowing that pit bulls have maimed and killed more children than all other breeds combined. Your main argument here seems to be that not every pit bull is guaranteed to kill a child, so it's all good, right?”

Absolutely not and I never said such a thing. I specifically said that I would NEVER have a pit bull in my home if I had children. They might be perfectly fine at home with a child but that’s not the best environment for such a high energy, high prey driven dog.

They’re working dogs, the real ones not the show ones or the mutts, and should be in a working environment with someone that can spend a lot of time working with them and exercising them. The BYBs making them so stupid looking and badly behaved is only the tip on the iceberg. There’s way too many of them. The stupid rescue people have to give them to people that shouldn’t have them or they’ll be killed because the asshole breeders keep popping them out.

They’re not family dogs; they’re working dogs that need to be handled by someone that knows what it takes. They’re not a dog for everyone.

“I'm not sure what your angle is here. You didn't dispute the bloody origins of the pit bull, but immediately go off on tangents about other types of dogs that aren't an epidemic of violence as pit bulls are.”

You do not understand the bigger picture.

Those other breeds that are game bred dogs that were bred for bloody sports aren’t attacking people.

Now let that sink in and think to yourself why pit bulls are attacking people?

If game bred dog breeds, which there are a good few, aren’t regularly attacking people and pit bulls are than is it really logical to assume it’s because they are game bred dogs that have a bloody history?

The reality is that it’s how they’re being bred NOW that is the major problem for why there are aggressive pit bulls that are attacking people.

As for the DA thing, that’s something that’s only dangerous if the owner doesn’t know how to handle it and honestly there are so many dogs bred to kill things of all shapes and sizes…I honestly don’t feel like listing all the breeds.

You can dispute it any way you want but there is no difference between a dog being bred to “bait” another dog in a pit and a dog bred to bait a rat in a pit.

They’re both being bred to kill another animal and they’re both being bred to be game. Neither one is in and of itself dangerous, when breeders start screwing up the breed and idiots start selling them as something they’re not, that’s when the problems start.

Jake said...

@Freya -

We see innocent family pets being tortured and killed every single day by pit bulls, doing the "work" they were bred to do. We see pit bulls maiming and killing humans at a rate disproportionate to their numbers, so claiming that pit bulls aren't "in and of themselves" dangerous is an obvious falsity. Of course they are dangerous in and of themselves. The only thing that restrains pit bulls from doing what they were bred to do is proper management and restraint, making sure the pit bull doesn't "somehow" get out and kill the neighbor's yorkie, or elderly lab, or worse, the poor chihuahua that the idiot pit owner had living in the same house with the sword hanging over his little head.

proper management of pit bulls also means having a plan of action ready for when pittie goes after a human family member. Crate and rotate, knowledge of the break stick, all the usual lion tamer stuff.

As for terriers bred to kill rats, I am not in favor of cruelty to small mammals, but that wasn't the topic of discussion, though I acknowledge your right to focus on the the big picture. I agree there is a larger issue here, but in practical terms, we have to prioritize concrete problems. Not only do we need to fix the leaky faucet, but we also need to drain the basement.

snarky said...


freya
i definitely think u should dirtnap your shitcoloured shitbull and get a less dangerous type of terrier. jrt's can be nasty but somehow i feel u might be able to handle it , even one from a byber. all this bullshit involved in pitbull ownership just isnt what dog ownership is all about. life is so much easier with a normal dog. try it , you might never go back to a mutant .

dawn james said...

"Exactly Dawn BRED, as were pit bulls bred for bull baiting and bear baiting and eventually dog “baiting”, so to speak."

you said they were trained. i was correcting you when i said they were bred. i am confused. maybe i should go back to not reading the first couple of sentences of your essays.

snarky said...


at least she didnt write "bread".

i think pitters get their spelling mistakes via the internet , as well as their facts , opinions and arguments . lol

do these peops really have jobs , degrees , mortgages ect ?

dawn james said...

hell no snarky. they think "Colege is for Idiots". they are pot smoking, head banging, tax dodging, cop punching, girl friend stalking, romney voting, court clogging, pit nut saluting, paranoid stay at home kidult dads who worked at breaking the back of the system their HOLE life. the next installment on craven will feature all of those and more!

bentonbergny said...

dawn james, to be honest, I see as many Obama voting pit apologists as I do Romney voter.

Each side is different and has their select reasons for promoting pit bulls, but in the end, it always works out to the same thing, money and control.

The stubby people didn't vote for any Romney, and neither did Ira Glass, and they are 10 times worse than the pitiful Freya.

On that note, Freya have you been treated for manic episodes? The rambling, disjointed posts are not reflecting too well on logical thought patterns.

Why aren't you directing your keyboard activity to going after the Shanie Dosses and other backyard breeders of the world that are actually abusing your beloved pits?

You are taking out your aggression on the wrong people, and doing nothing to "help" the dogs you supposedly love.

bentonbergny said...

" The dogs that attack usually don’t even have papers. They’re not purebred APBT."


This argument always makes me laugh.

It's straight from the AKC fantasy world, or AKC filtered through UKC, which is owned by an ex AKC board member.

The same AKC breeders that breed disasters of health and behavior problems, and who paper puppy mill puppies as their chief endeavor.

AKC is puppy mill, Freya, "show dogs" and not.

Stop trying to prop up AKC's tower of lies.

Jake said...

@Dawn -

"pot smoking, head banging, tax dodging, cop punching, girl friend stalking, romney voting, court clogging, pit nut saluting, paranoid stay at home kidult dads who worked at breaking the back of the system their HOLE life."

You had me right up until you said "romney". I mean, if you don't like conservative political ideas, that's your right, but the thing of it is:

The people who just want their Obama phones, their food stamps and their flat screen TVs weren't interested in getting jobs and certainly didn't vote for Romney.

Freya said...

“Exactly Dawn BRED, as were pit bulls bred for bull baiting and bear baiting and eventually dog “baiting”, so to speak."

you said they were trained. i was correcting you when i said they were bred. i am confused. maybe i should go back to not reading the first couple of sentences of your essays.”

No Dawn you should tell me why bull terriers don’t attack people the way pit bulls do when they have the same history and are genetically related?

I thought since pit bulls were bred to kill, that when they kill a person they’re just doing what they’re bred for.

So tell me, why aren’t bull terriers doing what they were bred for Dawn?

dawn james said...

i don't like romney but i don't like obama either. the republicans are only marginally worse than the democrats. i threw my presidential vote away and voted for one of the socialists. i can't even remember. i think it was the black dude. i do remember writing in mickey mouse, donald duck and tweedle and tweedle dum for other offices. i am sure i gave people a laugh with my ballot.

i was just showing that all of these crazy traits exist in one person. i am surprised that this fucktard votes. i am surprised that he is able to vote at all. don't some states take that right away from felons?

but there is a romney sign in his yard. i shouldn't assume that he votes at all based on just the presence of a sign. i suppose it could just be decorative. who knows, maybe he trips out on the colors and shapes of the letters when he gets stoned. or maybe he uses it for target practice.

Jake said...

@Freya -

"No Dawn you should tell me why bull terriers don’t attack people the way pit bulls do when they have the same history and are genetically related?"

Obviously the "bull terrier" line has diverged from the pit bull line. From what I can see, bull terriers in recent times have not been game bred, but bred more for the egg-shaped head. Boxers are also related to pit bulls, but do not have the same issues with sudden, random, unpredictable violence.

The modern "english bulldog" tends to be rather mild mannered, as it was crossed with pug.

On the other hand, pit bulls are still being bred for the propensity for sudden, all-out attack, freakish insensitivity to pain, and gameness (going into "the zone" and continuing the attack regardless of injuries suffered) which the parents of Ryan Maxwell experienced, to their great horror.

So, the answer is the same as before: pit bulls have been bred and continue to be bred as a destroyer of dogs, cats, ponies, sheep, toddlers and other living things.

dawn james said...

well freya, i likely didn't respond because your question was not in the first paragraph of your essays.

there are many dogs that are no longer bred for their original function: boxer, great dane, sharpei, english bull terrier, english mastiff, neopolitan mastiff... when breeders move away from function, the form typically follows and that is visible in all of the breeds that i just mentioned.

if you look at vintage photos of boxers, bull terriers and sharpeis, you will see a strong resemblance to the APBT. in fact around 1900 the bull terrier is often indistinguishable from the early APBT. if you can't tell them apart now, you're a liar. i am not sure south africa, australia and europe are breeding BT into their extreme current deformity as the U.S. i suspect they are not because they seem to have more attacks.

but the BT is not without issues.

the same is true when they breed away from form. they lose their ability to perform the original function.

freya, if you require further input directly from me, you will have to email me. i am not wasting anymore time even on your first paragraph. life is too short and there are not enough hours in the day to deal with the fucktard nutters on my plate right now.
crvndesires@gmail.com

dawn james said...

well shit, i could of just let jake answer you. that will teach me to pay closer attention to comments.
thank you jake.

snarky said...


FREYA
i am wary of shitbulls not because ive been chased and harassed by them , but because they were bred to fight with other animals and ive seen what they can and do . if they never scalped anyone or disfigured a child or mauled their owners , i still wouldnt like them. nutters always seem to think that shitbulls killing other dogs and cats is acceptable . id rather they kill their owners than someones innocent pet .

Freya said...

“So, the answer is the same as before: pit bulls have been bred and continue to be bred as a destroyer of dogs, cats, ponies, sheep, toddlers and other living things.”

Well you should know Bull Terriers are still dog aggressive from their past with dog fighting and are used for hog hunting and sometimes have to be bred with other dogs because some will always try to start fights with other dogs instead of doing the work they’re supposed to be doing.

They’re also still used for dog fighting in some countries. Sometimes put up against pit bulls or sometimes other bull terriers. Russia likes them for dog fighting for some reason.

Oh, and they never split off from pit bulls.
There was no such thing at the time. Just “bull-terrier” mixes that eventually ended up as the bull terrier and the staffies. There was other dogs involved. The bull terrier was bred with the White Terrier(now extinct) and Dalmatians and some other dogs for the white color because they were the dogs of the upper white male class who wanted white dogs not colored dogs.

Manchester Terriers and other mixes developed into the Staffie, the colored dogs, usually brindle.

The bull terriers had health problems and had Staffie’s (or Manchester Terrier mixes) bred into them to give them color. They were the only bull terrier breed recognized by the KC at the time. People in America freaked out because they didn’t want their white dogs dirtied with colored dog blood.

So now you have the colored bull terriers shown separate from the white terriers.

Got to love times back them. White gentlemen so full of themselves that their own dogs couldn’t be colored. Still looked at the same way I supposed, Pit bulls are the ghetto persons dogs and bull terriers are the rare “better” dogs that are owned by a select few.

Freya said...

“ the same is true when they breed away from form. they lose their ability to perform the original function.”

Well they sure as hell have bred away from form with the pit bull. The old newspaper articles from the time dog fighting was legal listed APBT at about 45 pounds usually. When was the last time you saw a 45 pound APBT. Sure it’s probably been a while. For a dog that’s only supposed to be 60 pounds at the most and usually wasn’t even that much during the time of dog fighting being wide spread there’s a lot of 80+ pound pit bulls attacking people.

Jake said...

@Freya -

"there’s a lot of 80+ pound pit bulls attacking people."

It's mostly 40-60 lb pit bulls attacking people (and innocent animals). But there's no question that pit fanciers have been wanting bigger and bigger thug dogs to compensate for their inadequacies, and big pit bulls are just as dangerous as the mid-sized ones.

The same could be said for the ampubull and other designer breeds of weapon dog - presa, dogo, et al.

Freya said...

“It's mostly 40-60lbs pit bulls attacking people (and innocent animals).”

How do you know that?

I’ve never actually seen a 40lb pit bull in person. I’ve seen a 55lb one and that was the smallest one I have ever seen in person. So I’m really not sure how common they are considering I’ve seen a ton of pit bulls in my lifetime and none ever really that small.

I’ve seen a pit mix that was about 40lbs though. Didn’t look purebred at all.

There’s a good amount of people involved with APBTs that like the game bred dogs and only own dogs in the 35 range and consider anything at 40lbs big and 50lbs the tops. I’ve seen one person say they wouldn’t own any APBT over 30lbs before.

Most people when they see a game bred pit bull that’s bred for the small size don’t even know it’s a pit bull. They’re having pit bull owners bragging about how their pits are 70lbs at 12 months and come from a bitch that’s 112lbs. They see their dogs and think they’re puppies when they’re 5 years old.

I’ve seen people from Cali say the majority of the pit bulls they see are the larger ones. That they never see smaller game bred pits. Isn’t Cali one of the top places for pit bull attacks?

I doubt these small 30-40lbs dogs are actually attacking people. You don’t see a report of a 30lbs dog attacking someone. That’s ridiculous. What are they going to say, mini vicious pit bull attacks woman, bites on arm. People don’t know what a pit bull is supposed to really be as far as size and weight. Do you know how many people think a normal pit bull is supposed to be about 60-90lbs. Sometimes even up to 100lbs and over. 60lbs is supposed to be the maximum and that’s not even a good pit bull. Most prefer them between 30-60lbs and usually more towards the 30 than the 60. They don’t want them as big as 60lbs at all.

I could see maybe some attacks on people being from dogs in the 50-60 range but still most pit bulls I see are larger than that, in the upper 60 and higher range. The smaller dogs might be attacking other animals though. They’re used for hog hunting and badger baiting, although Patterdales are more popular for that now I guess. They are working game bred dogs after all, with a history of dog fighting. Again, that’s the owner’s responsibility.

The real APBT in the 30(sometimes less, I’ve seen 25 and 28lb pits up on forums) to 55(or 60 which is big for a real APBT) range is rare. I have really only ever seen one purebred pit bull that would have been bred to fit the standard of what a pit bull should really look like and really weigh.

The majority of pit bull breeders are BYBs and they’re not breeding small dogs. So again, I’m not really sure where you getting your information from about 40-60lb dogs being the ones attacking people.
Maybe more like 60-80lbs would be right.
I've never seen an article about a pit attack saying a 40lb pit bull attacked or killed someone.

Jake said...

@Freya -

Sounds like you have some homework to do regarding pit bull attacks by size. I look forward to the fruits of your research.

snarky said...


sounds like freya is a real expert on shitbulls . ive heard others saying what size a true shitbull is but i dont know and dont care as long as they stick to mauling their owners and fanciers and not peops who are out their minding their own business ect .

Freya said...

“Sounds like you have some homework to do regarding pit bull attacks by size. I look forward to the fruits of your research.”

Well I’m not really sure where you got your information from considering the articles I’ve read concerning pit bull attacks rarely list size. I can tell you right now that the ones I have seen that list size have listed 70-100lbs for the dogs involved in attacking someone.

I’ve seen pictures of the attacking dogs in some cases. I’ve seen a good majority of blue pits that were put into quarantine after an attack. As I already said, blue pits are bred by BYBs not reputable breeders. Blue is an extremely rare color in pits and the majority are common from outside breeds being added in to make the color more common and from extreme inbreeding and limiting the gene pool of already blue dogs breeding to only other blue dogs.

I’ve seen other pit bulls that have been involved in attacks, when they actually take a picture of them or when there dead from a cop killing them and I can tell you that the majority look to be at least 60lbs.

I have failed to find one article about a pit bull attack that list the dog to be 60lbs or under.

Jake said...

I've seen images and videos of pit bulls involved in attacks over the past few years and the majority I've seen look to be well under 50 lbs.

Potato, potato, tomato, tomato.

There was a nutter with a game bred 30 lb pit bull that killed a pit bull twice its size, so please don't try to sell the idea that 30 lb pit bulls are harmless.

dawn james said...

size has a wider range when you breed for function.

http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?62077-XL-American-Pit-Bull-Terriers

http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?96835-Whats-the-weight-of-your-APBT

http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?48208-Why-do-YOU-use-a-prong-collar

Freya said...

“I've seen images and videos of pit bulls involved in attacks over the past few years and the majority I've seen look to be well under 50 lbs.”

That’s bullshit. First of all, I highly doubt that there is a plethora of youtube videos showing pit bull attacking people.
Second of all, I’m not talking about dog attacks.
Third of all, even in the videos I have seen of dog attacks the dogs looked well over 60lbs.

This dog is over 60lbs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p514CHm5eXA

So is this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1C54Q8jgns

This dog might be about 60lbs but definitely not standard for the breed, on the larger end but possibly near the 60lb range or a little bigger:

Although as you can see, the people easily handled the dog and no one was killed or mauled by the dog.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3YCfCAQGnM

This dog is on the larger end of 60lbs and it’s an Amstaff not an APBT, its head is too big:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kmUuEyQfls

Another large pit that’s at least close to 70lbs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMAsquv3Sss

These blue pits that attacked a person are at least close to 70lbs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34TBMkRJZKk

Oh and maybe so you can understand something about size because you obviously can’t tell a 50lb dog from a larger dog here is a video of a Rottie attacking a pit bull.

Rotties get about 130lbs German lines and a little smaller for American lines, the blue pit is obviously at least over 70lbs it’s not that much smaller than the Rottie, the white and tan is more 60-70lb range since you can tell it’s obviously not as fat as the blue pit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKjuYkgkr_U

Oh and just a warning, someone shoots the Rottie in the end. I’m sure you won’t mind since you people enjoy watching videos of cops shooting pits on a regular basis.

Freya said...

“There was a nutter with a game bred 30 lb pit bull that killed a pit bull twice its size, so please don't try to sell the idea that 30 lb pit bulls are harmless.”

First of all, that’s the point. The smaller dogs are quicker and better fighters. That’s why the dog fighters bred small dogs. Again, I wasn’t talking about dog attacks I was talking about attacks on humans.

Also, I’ve read from a 40lb Boston terrier owner that their dog took down a pit by grabbing it by the back of the neck and flipping it onto its back. I’ve also heard of two coyotes killed a 60lb pit bull. There was a starving 60lb cougar with a broken leg that killed an older 60lb pit. They’re not indestructible.
Oh and as you can obviously see they do get picked on by other larger dogs such as one that’s a fighter like the Rottie in the video above.

Also, I wasn’t trying to sell the idea that a 30lb pit bull is harmless.

The point is that Dawn’s BS about form following function is true in the sense that the form of the APBT has changed from what it used to look like in the past when it was used for fighting. Since that form has changed there have been more attacks on humans and the majority of the dogs attacking humans are the one’s that look nothing like the fighting dogs of the past.

Again, 60lbs is a large APBT. Anything over that isn’t a properly bred APBT. None of those dogs in the videos I posted is a properly bred APBT. They might be Amstaff, but those dogs shouldn’t even be considered pit bulls. If dog fighters from the past came back and saw those dogs they wouldn’t recognize them as pit bulls and they sure as hell wouldn’t use them for dog fighting.

The whole point of breeding bulldogs to terriers was to get a smaller and faster dog. Those dogs are in a completely different direction and are larger and slower dog.

So the form has changed and ever since it started being changed they've been more of a problem for people. They should have left the dogs alone, they should have never started to register them with the AKC, they should have never became so popular, the majority of them should still be small-medium sized dogs rather than large dogs, and they should be owned by people that know how to fucking handle them and then there wouldn't be so many damn problems with them and people like Dawn could stop making blogs and posting BS about them every damn day.

Jake said...

@Freya -

Re - small pit bulls dangerous to humans; sure, as a reasonably fit adult male, I could probably defeat a 30 lb pit bull without too much loss of vital tissue. But that same 30 pound pit bull would be lethal for humans like any of those killed by pit bulls so far this year.

It doesn't take a 65 lb pit to maul a child or an elderly person to death, and that accounts for all of the human dog attack fatalities so far this year.

snarky said...


FREYA


bla, bla, bla blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Freya said...

“small pit bulls dangerous to humans; sure, as a reasonably fit adult male, I could probably defeat a 30 lb pit bull without too much loss of vital tissue. But that same 30 pound pit bull would be lethal for humans like any of those killed by pit bulls so far this year.”

Probably defeat? Have a little more faith in yourself buddy. It’s a 30lb dog. Those wiener dogs get that big. Boston terriers can get that big. I’m sure you can handle yourself. I would think that even at only 120lbs and not the type to work out I could handle a 30lb dog, if not than lord help me.

I’m pretty much over this. I must have grown up in a hole because I just now realized that ferrets are banned in some places because they’re considered dangerous lmfao. I can go to every pet story in my town and there are ferrets in cages curled up in little balls.

I’m amazed. I’m just honestly amazed at the idiots that exist in this world. Ferret attacks an old lady and latches on for 10 minutes, I can’t even stop laughing. Wash your damn hands people, you smell like food you get bit. I guess people are just too damn stupid to own animals in this day and age. No common sense.

Oh and by the way, I wasn’t talking about what a dog could do, any dog could attack. I’m talking about what has been done. You know, like what “pit bull” type dogs are actually attacking. If there’s actually any reason to believe that if they’re reputably bred and handled correctly they would actually attack a person. If the dogs attacking are just BYB bred dogs and irresponsibly owned. You know, the important things that people should be asking before they decide to go and wipe out a whole group of dogs based of the actions of a minority of them that may be questionably bred in the first place.

No need to worry about those things though. You’re the enlightened ones. You guys know everything, obviously.

snack sized dog said...

Freya never has seen a gamebred pit. It is so sad the link to the actual webcast is gone, but Talyor Hernandez with her little 30 something pound gamebred pit brags how it killed an 80 lb shit bull.

the little 30 lb pit that attacked my dog - both leashed took down my 55 lb dog in a second - and silently.

and yes, Freya, I most certainly am more enlightened than you and I know a lot more than you. no question.

Freya said...

“and yes, Freya, I most certainly am more enlightened than you and I know a lot more than you. no question.”

Yes, you’re brilliant. You’re just marvelous darling.

Your reading comprehension skills are superb.

Obviously it’s my mistake for thinking that HA and DA could be talked about separately. Obviously they go hand and hand and I was stupid to think otherwise.

“Freya never has seen a gamebred pit”

No I’ve never personally seen a 30lb game bred, although I have seen a 55lber and that dog barely passed my knee so I can only imagine what a 30lber looks like. From pictures in relation to people they look rather small. Usually see people kneeling on the ground next to them so it’s hard to get a good idea of size in relation to a person.

Oh and game bred is TWO words, not one.

“the little 30 lb pit that attacked my dog - both leashed took down my 55 lb dog in a second - and silently.”

Then the owner of the dog that attacked your dog is an idiot. IDK why or how the situation happened. Honestly I’m sorry for your dog. Regardless, that’s the owners fault for letting their dog anywhere near yours.

“Talyor Hernandez with her little 30 something pound gamebred pit brags how it killed an 80 lb shit bull.”

You guys sure do obsess over people don’t you?
That girl is lucky her dog didn’t end up like her Peanut did. It’s said for every 30lbs the dog has the upper hand. Meaning that in a fight between a 30lb pit and a 60lb pit the 60lber has the upper hand. It’s also believed that anything over 60lbs can’t be a good fighter and won’t have the range of movement and be quick enough. So in a fight with a 60lb pit against an 80lb cur, the 60lber would have the upper hand.
Saying that, a fight between an 80lb cur and a 30lb game bred pit is a tossup. The bigger dog has the advantage of size and strength while the game bred has the advantage of speed and possibly good breeding.
I can tell you right now that if I owned a 30lb game bred pit and it was attacked by an 80lb cur I wouldn’t just let them go at it and hope for the best. If there was no owner around to help me separate the dogs than that 80lb mutt would be one dead dog, by my own hands not from my dog.

Same with my own dog right now, I don’t care if my dog is a pit mix and might be able to fight. If a larger dog attacked my dog and the owner didn’t get their dog away from mine I would beat the shit out of their dog or kill it. No doubt about it.

snarky said...


"you guys sure do obsess over people dont you."?

freya: who's to blame the owner or the dog ?

people are supposed to be responsible for their own shit .

Freya said...

no shit

Jake said...

Here's a link for Freya, who seems to think that only 100+ pound pit bulls are dangerous. These 45 lb pit bulls went from playful to full on deadly with zero warning, and tore a child apart while the babysitter tried in vain to save him:

Daxton Borchard mauled to death by pit bulls

dawn james said...

"Records at the clinic show both dogs had been spayed and neutered there."


woops. how is karen delise going to spin this?

Jake said...

Excellent catch Dawn - that is a good piece of data to have on hand. The pit pushers are always claiming that no spayed or neutered pit has ever attacked, and the fact is, not a lot of information about spay/neuter status of pit bulls involved in attacks from decades ago, but hopefully this signals a trend towards better record-keeping.

Ka D said...

Genetically, incurably aggressive and seriously ill. I can't think of a better case of a dog that should be put down.