Tuesday, March 25, 2014

Act five: HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

PINEY the "pit bull".


















last december, DIANE JESSUP got wind of the IRA GLASS "pit bull" scandal and sent out an SOS on her pit bull forum to find out where this 7x biter came from.





























YES DIANE. I CAN HELP YOU WITH THIS INFO!










please note that STACEY JACOBS-COLEMAN sees absolutely nothing wrong with keeping a seven time biter alive and living in an apartment in NYC.























STACEY JACOBS-COLEMAN?

now why does that name sound so darn familiar?

oh, that's right!

just recently i caught STACEY JACOBS-COLEMAN'S, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR of ANIMAL FARM FOUNDATION greasy fingers in the Klonda Richey murder.








no wonder Diane's burning desire to find out this information fizzled out. she certainly doesn't want to alienate Old Money Bags Berkey. you never know when you might need a hand out.


diane jessup's ultimate pit bull forum

this american life facebook

this american nutter: the piney files

bloody money trail


130 comments:

Da Ninja said...

Gawd.... they are like a coven of hideous mouldy old hags sucking at the blown corpse of a jackass stuffed with money. In the distance, Mr Kumpf brays thinly for support and assistance, but Klonda will prove yet to have a long and dark shadow. It is indeed a circus of madness, surmounted by gaily prancing Pit Bulls in pretty scarves, biting happily at people before bouncing off into pastures new. Good work, Craven.

Anonymous said...

Isn't Out of the Pits where the shit bull that mauled Frankie Flora came from?

Anonymous said...

Love this.

"Old Money Bags Berkey"... lol

Anonymous said...

"Stacey Jacobs-Coleman Mark Kumpf, I am glad that you are on this case because it means we will be getting more brutal deaths by dangerous dogs. We need people like you. I am not sorry that you caused this tragedy. And I am glad it is me who will be giving you more dangerous dogs."

FIXED!

Wow, this is where Piney came from? So not worth saving. I wonder how all of the other Pineys are doing? Are his litter mates allergic to everything and have to eat kangaroo meat?

Packhorse said...

"TEAM" by HORDE


Wait 'til you’re announced
We’ve not yet lost all our graces
The pits will stay in chains
Look upon their greatness
Then we’ll send the call out

Call all the Ledys out
They’re in their finery
A hundred jewels on throats
A hundred throats between teeth
Now bring my pits in
Their skin in craters like the moon
The breed we love like a brother, while he growls at the room

Dancin' around the lies we tell
Dancin' around big eyes as well
Even the comatose, of which we never tell

[Chorus]
We live with pitties you'll never see on screen
Not very pretty, but they sure know how to kill things
Living in ruins of a shelter within my dreams
And you know, we're on each other's team

I'm kind of over getting told this dog is more than I can bear
So there

So all the bones got broke, shards beneath our feet
But it wasn’t my fault
And everyone’s competing for a love they won't receive
'Cause what this pit bull wants is the feast

[Chorus]

I'm kind of over getting told this dog is more than I can bear
So there
I’m kinda older than I was when I owned dogs that didn’t scare
So there

[Chorus]

scorched earth said...

Anon 12:48, the answer is Yes. Frankie Flora definitely had a "bad experience" with Out of the Pits. That "bad experience" changed his life forever. Pit bull advocacy is pleased to walk away from any responsibility for life changing, or life ending maulings.

Anonymous said...

is this the dog that just bit the man in the elevator in NYC?

Dayna Hamilton said...

Noted how Jessup, when discussing Piney wrote "pit bull" in quotations, as well as the "rescue" he came from.

"Gawd.... they are like a coven of hideous mouldy old hags sucking at the blown corpse of a jackass stuffed with money. "

LMAO @ Da Ninja!! Best description of these shit bull promoters!

"dawn james" said...

"Gawd.... they are like a coven of hideous mouldy old hags sucking at the blown corpse of a jackass stuffed with money."

ROTFLMAO!


bow to da ninja

PutMeInCharge4OneDay said...

"Da Ninja said...
Gawd.... they are like a coven of hideous mouldy old hags sucking at the blown corpse of a jackass stuffed with money"

----------

Truer words have never been spoken.

Anonymous said...

Anon 8:32,

"Alan Johnson, 47, claims the neighbor, Narayan Raj, 37, knew of the dog’s propensity to be violent but encouraged Johnson anyway to pet the animal in the elevator of 555 W. 59 St in in May 2011, according to Manhattan Supreme Court papers."

Anonymous said...

I really don't see what they see in Piney, but if they want to lock THEMSELVES in the apartment with him.. that's their business. He should be muzzled outside of the house.. with a real muzzle. And probably on a chain. I don't think anything else will really hold a pit bull.. now whether his puny owners can hold onto him.. IDK..

BTW, does anyone know how to look up a pedigree by the owner? I want to look up a specific dog (not Piney). I don't know her official name.. only what she was called by her owner.

"dawn james" said...

anon 12:21, here are some google options:
"pit bull's name + apbt pedigree"
"kennel name + apbt pedigree"

or you can email me the info that you do know.

crvndesires@gmail.com

Anonymous said...

Dawn, thank you for the information. I have to get off the computer now. But, I will try this ASAP. If I can't find it, I'll email you. It's an interesting pit bull. :)

Anonymous said...

So, do I have this right? Piney, the violent aggressive pit bull came from Animal Farm Foundation? That was where he was "rescued" from as a puppy?

"dawn james" said...

not sure if stacey jacobs-coleman got her mutant pitunia while she was proselytizing for jane., or if she got it through jane.

tropical storms said...

One thing I will give Diane, she knows what these dogs are and what they're for. She sees herself as someone preserving a game gene pool for the day people come to their senses and legalize dogfighting.

"dawn james" said...

i love it TS. you always tell it like it is.

"dawn james" said...

have any of you clicked on the FB discussion?

it's a hoot. get a load of this nutter LOIS McNULTY:

this is such a LOVE story- ira's love for his wife who loves her weird dog.


bwahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tropical storms said...

Dawn I checked out the FB rant. What a cock-up over that poor miserable dog. I don't see how they think that dog has any quality of live. The kindest thing they could do for him is put him down.

"dawn james" said...

i agree. that dog has a miserable life.

orangedog said...

This Miserable Life - The Piney Chronicles

Anonymous said...

LOL orangedog

S.K.Y. said...

When people keep a dog like Piney, ESPECIALLY when it came from a rescue, it keeps dozens of other dogs from being adopted. Everybody who knows the dog and sees that it's aggressive learns that shelters don't necessarily temperament test, and that you can't trust dogs that come from shelters.

My hard-nosed rescue heroine, Sue Sternberg, believes that roughly 1/3 dogs that come to a shelter should be euthanized for temperament--even if not overtly aggressive. I thought that was overdoing it at first, but after reading her book many times, I am thoroughly convinced.

The remaining 2/3 will be the absolutely safest, human- and dog-friendliest pets ever. Adopters and everybody who meets dogs from shelters like this learn that shelters are the BEST place to get a pet. That shelters who follow this model have pets that are more trustworthy than what you would find buying a dog from the newspaper.

Already, 46% of dogs that arrive at shelters are euthanized. However, many of the euthanized dogs are friendly (but maybe chubby or a "boring" color), while attractive aggressive dogs continue to be adopted out. Under Sternberg's model, the aggressive dogs are culled, leaving nothing but the good 'uns. When people learn to trust the shelter's strict temperament testing, the remaining 67% of dogs should be adopted easily, as people will prefer shelters over buying pets.

BTW, the test she uses is much stricter and more in-depth than the tests used by 99% of shelters right now. It's not just a test of "can a shelter volunteer pet the dog without being mauled?" which is unfortunately what most shelters use to declare a dog "safe."

Anonymous said...

So the Animal Farm Foundation dog dealers were at it again!

Victims need to be suing Animal Farm Foundation. They are selling violent dogs and they know it.

Now the world knows that Animal Farm Foundation has no problem whatsoever with dealing violent pit bulls and with the fact that they attack again and again and again. They do nothing about it.

Oh except get their NPR friends to do some free pushing for them.

Anonymous said...

Stacey Jacobs-Coleman wrote that Piney's nother came from a cruelty case and was overbred

yeah by a dog fighter right from the pit!

Was this really a cruelty case or just taking and redealing dog fighter overflow?



Mr Coleman do you ever wake up and ask yourself, to paraphrase
David Byrne "my God what have I done?"

(once in a lifetime, once in a lifetime

same as it ever was)

Packhorse said...

I think Tropical Storms hit the nail on the head.

S.K.Y., I agree--this aggressive dog madness is destroying the reputation of all shelters, perhaps permanently. It's no wonder puppy mills are thriving.

Dayna Hamilton said...

I read all the comments at the FB site. I was actually surprised at how many were against Piney and his nut owners, even apparently, some pit owners.

As to the shelter adoption, I adopted one dog, my first, from a local shelter, and they didn't want to give the dog to me, I only knew about her because I worked at the vets office and she came to us directly with a broken leg and what they thought were bite marks. The shelter said she was a potential rabies case. They had a reputation for putting down animals rather than adopt them out to (in their opinion) questionable people. Now they are pit bull central, like all the other shelters. I will never adopt from a shelter again until I see some real animal control going on.

Branwyne Finch said...


I am still trying to process this revelation...the executive director of Animal Farm Foundation listens to the NPR piece that clearly demonstrates that Piney is a horribly unstable, aggressive, dangerous dog that has bitten seven people, including his owners, and her response is an enthusiastic "Good to see you again, Piney"? She then praises his owners for keeping this genetic train wreck of an animal, putting themselves and everyone around them at risk, and prolonging this dogs obvious suffering?

In addition, she reveals her own rescue dog as Piney's mother, which means that Piney most likely came from Animal Farm Foundation, the organization that owns the "National Canine Research Council", which pretends to use "scientific research" to fight BSL.

So the organizations dedicated to fighting BSL and claiming that pit bulls are not dangerous, will not only adopt out dangerous pit bulls to totally clueless, irresponsible owners like Ira Glass and his wife...they will actually praise the bizarre, selfish, misanthropic behavior of Piney's owners and encourage them to continue to put neighbors at risk.

Stacey Coleman's true colors have been exposed, as has the real agenda of the anti-BSL organization Animal Farm Foundation. Despite her carefully tempered rhetoric when giving formal interviews to humane organizations, her actual view of what a normal human-canine relationship looks like is as perverted as Ira' Glass's relationship with Piney. She holds the narcissist's point of view that the risk to others doesn't matter, all that matters is "how I feel about my dog."

It is all quite logical and predictable...at some level, we all know that people who are attracted to violent dogs are not emotionally healthy, and those involved in "pit bull advocacy" universally display a common pathology, a warped view of what constitutes a normal interpersonal or human/canine relationships. Instead of hearing that interview, being horrified by it, and reaching out to Ira to tell him, you need to euthanize this dog, Animal Farm Foundation's official mouthpiece THANKS him for perpetuating this menace to all around him.

Anonymous said...

Very well said Branwyne.

Anonymous said...

I actually read someone declaring that dog fighting hasn't happened for 130 years. I don't know what that person is making of all these spare aggressive pit bulls that are running around and clogging up shelters. The dogs aren't THAT popular as pets. Also, with very little effort, one can find proof of continued dog fighting that isn't even 130 days old. There was a fight bust, for example, much more recently than that.

But, I think people don't realize fighting is going on and that people are very badly breeding dogs hoping to create a champion by accident. So, they don't know what they're doing and they have a lot of surplus dogs like Piney. Piney is aggressive, but he's too sickly to be of any use to a dog fighter. He's barely of us as a pet despite his owners spending a lot of money on him and doing insane things to try to fix him.

And why do people dress pit bulls, of all dogs, up in some of the crap they do? I wouldn't even have put that thing he's wearing on my dog (when I had a dog) and I had a regular pet breed. But, it was a BOY dog. Putting a pit bull in a cutesy outfit doesn't make it not a pit bull.

Packhorse said...

Danya, I'm sorry you had such a terrible experience with a shelter. Why not try coming out to the rural shelters, they are still filled with sweet pet-breed dogs--beagles, labs, collies-- and their "oops" litters. Pits are few and far between.

Dick Johnson said...

I agree anon 10:05, I have to shake my head at this nutter practice of dressing up the fucking maulers, and decorating them in such a way as to make them look like clowns. I suppose they think that if a torturer canine is made to look silly, people won't think about all the gruesome, horrific attacks committed by these useless creatures.

tropical storms said...

130 years? Well I was regularly attending them from the middle 1970s through the late 1980s. They're still being held today even though they no longer have any print mags for their stroke material.

snack sized dog said...

When I first became aware of the issue, I caught Brent Toellner LYING about that in the comments of a pit bull attack story - saying dog fighting has been stopped for 100 years. This was right after the largest multi-state dog fighting bust in history. I didn't know enough to screenshot what he was saying. DAMMIT

snack sized dog said...

When I first became aware of the issue, I caught Brent Toellner LYING about that in the comments of a pit bull attack story - saying dog fighting has been stopped for 100 years. This was right after the largest multi-state dog fighting bust in history. I didn't know enough to screenshot what he was saying. DAMMIT

"dawn james" said...

hahahaha TS!

snack, that would have been an outstanding screenshot. these fuckers are so brazen in the way they pervert logic and twist facts. it is mind blowing.

"dawn james" said...

branwyne, as usual spectacular synopsis. i'm tempted to elevate it to the blog.

Anonymous said...

http://www.slideshare.net/gameandworkingdog/sporting-dog-journal-yearbook-1998

^^from 1998...

The 130 years thing is crazy because I don't think dog fighting was even underground less than 100 years ago. I'm not sure though.

Anonymous said...

They know most people don't have or want their precious 'bully breeds' and thus, don't pay that much attention. The maulings are getting so out of control that people are starting to pay attention.

And the 'it's all how they're raised' mantra is wearing thin.

tropical storms said...

Anon. Dogfighting was only a wink and a nod toward "underground" until the early 1980s. The long hours of work from pitside to state house began paying off with upgrading the criminal status of dogfighting. Until then most states had no specific law against dogfighting and many lawmakers didn't view it as animal cruelty. The law enforcement was for gambling violations, the fine was from 5 to 25 US dollars and they all got their dogs back. It only became underground after a few good felony busts and a lot of publicity from various media.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for this information. I had no idea it wasn't even a felony until that recently.

I did know in the 80s sometimes pit bulls were used as guard dogs. I guess the only people breeding them at that time would've been dog fighters?

Were the dogs then just not as mentally screwed up as the dogs now?

tropical storms said...

There weren't as many. Not as many dogs, breeders or owners until after the 1940s. As in all selective breeding you eventually get very distilled traits with sometimes unintended consequences. Winning man eaters were not culled they were bred. The dogs today are more aggressive overall. There are fewer cold dogs and far more intense, early starting, hard biting dogs who will hit anything. I think there are far more curs as well but with devastating bite and the ability to completely overwhelm their opponents they win and are bred. I think this is the cycle we are seeing in crazy dogs. They're coming hotter, younger, far less manageable and will hit whatever they can reach.

Anonymous said...

Found a 12min video of Russians fighting Staffordshire terriers.

https://www.facebook.com/youaintbull.doggin/posts/1403896306545361

Anonymous said...

Found a treasure trove oh high quality videos showing pit dogs fighting. Site is in Russian.

http://my.mail.ru/video/bk/synthetic_generation/1/13.html

Anonymous said...

the videos of dead game pits are the worst. it is like watching a zombie sludge beyond the scratch only to die.

Anonymous said...

Tropical Storm, thanks for that run down. So, back in the day, a person really could get one and, if they knew what they had, could keep it under control?

I remember a brief period where people were using pit bulls as guard dogs. But, they could control these dogs or else the things would be useless. But, they'd only have one each, not a yard full.

Nowadays, I think some people are breeding for something way worse than dog fighting. And dog fighting is bad enough. But, I don't know why someone would need the XL and XXL ones just to dog fight since back in the day people used dogs that would be described as "medium sized".

Would the dogs that go after particularly weak targets (babies, children, old people) be curs? Or just crazy?

Anonymous said...

Dick Johnson, I have seen maulers dressed in costumes that I do not believe any other self-respecting canine would wear... not even toy poodles! And toy poodles look cute in said outfits while maulers look basically Diablo (from the video game) in a cast off prom dress.

I have seen ONE tutu-clad pit bull that had kind eyes. And she seemed like a gentle type of dog. Everything about her was different than any other pit I've seen, but I think she was an old dog that someone took in that was just happy to have a home. (This was in a video, not IRL).

Anonymous said...

Back to Piney, I've read the list of medications this dog takes daily.. he's so zonked out that I don't think he has a full-on mauling in him. I think these bites ("bloody nips" as Ira Glass calls them) are all he's capable of at this point. But, if they ever forget his medications, that could be bad.

I don't know if he's miserable. I think he's just sleepy a lot due to the medications they give him. A lot of the Piney photos are of him sleeping.

Whatever the case, I would be shocked if they ever have him pts. It would take him getting so sick that they really could not tend to him. And I think he might have a few more years before that happens.

But, they have hired a lot of different people to deal with Piney. I guess they are just taking these people's word for what to do for Piney. I think these people will also prolong Piney's life because this couple may haul off and get a Yorkie the next time around and thus not need a lot of help.

tropical storms said...

Bulldogs that attack people are hyper aggressive dogs, it has nothing to do with an individual's gameness. There have been dead game man eaters. My point is that when rigorous selection for traits necessary for pit fighting you distilled and amplify those traits. Aggression, bite, wind, talent, etcetera can be enhanced. When a dog bred for aggression in the pit is much more aggressive overall that's an unintended but not really surprising consequence. There have been dead game battle dogs who wouldn't bite anything outside a dog pit. Those lines have died out in favor of hotter, more aggressive earlier starting dogs. At one time, prior to the middle 1980s, most bulldogs were fairly easily managed. Of course at the time almost all bulldogs were in the yards of dogmen.

Sputnik said...

TS, your comment has me curious. As long as records have been kept, the pit types have always mauled and killed more people than all other types of dogs combined.

I'm not sure the present huge spurt in gripper inflicted fatalities is because the dogs have changed, but maybe more like simply because there's so many more of them...and in the hands of people who think they are unicorns? I mean, not so much that they were ever more easily managed, but that they were differently managed?

tropical storms said...

The answer is both Sputnik. They've been bred to become even more intense and aggressive at earlier ages and there are for more of them. Humans of marginal intellect, lawfulness and irresponsible behavior are drawn to these dogs and breed them for a quick buck from other ignorant, irresponsible assholes. The dogs, their circumstances and numbers have all changed in the last 50 or so years, all for the worse. There have always been man fighters and almost all of the good pit quality dogs were bred sending that trait into the downstream generations. This is an example of distilling and amplifying a trait. Now all lines have blended so that you have multiple manfighters in any given pedigree.

DubV said...

It is no wonder that nutters think you can select for seemingly incompatible traits: dead game against dog social partners but syrupy sweet and trustworthy around human social partners.

First, it comes down to a lack of critical thinking skills among nutters, obviously. But the primitive human impulses look for this sort of thing, and it really can't be found (easily or at all) and causes problems for those not aware of themselves or able to exercise any control over their emotions.

It is obvious in romantic media such as movies. The object of affection is usually someone that has conflicting traits not usually found off the screen. For instance, the super tough man that eats nail for lunch but has a soft side that only the female protagonist can access.

The pit nutter thing is just these impulses not in place to improve your life or anyone else's being placed upon dogs.

Then you have those outside the relationship trying to keep you and the dog apart (public safety advocates).

It's a little movie in the heads of the nutters and they and their dogs are the stars of the struggle.

Anonymous said...

Tropical Storms, your insight on these dogs is very interesting. So, if (in theory) someone got a dog from the same breeder they got a good dog from 25 years ago... the bloodlines are too screwed up to get a good result? It's not just people who are getting 'rescue dogs' (which are usually... in pitbulls... some kind of failure as we see with Piney)?

Also, I see people doing alarming things with pit bulls I wouldn't dream anyone doing with ANY dog... like letting their kids lay all over them. Or getting a houseful of the things.

tropical storms said...

The old timers would have told you they were NEVER bred to be pets. Those dogs that were genetically cold were really the only pet quality bulldogs for the general public. Depending upon your definition of "good one": sure you can still get good match dogs from the right breeders, but no "pure family bred" bulldogs. The pure families were by genetic necessity were bred together using pit dogs that displayed a higher degree of desirable traits. Things like bite force, hyper aggression and earlier maturation. Back in the day most bulldogs didn't turn on until 2 to 3 years of age. Now most crack off by 1 year and many as young as 3 to 4 months.

"dawn james" said...

"It's a little movie in the heads of the nutters and they and their dogs are the stars of the struggle."

DUBV!!! i laughed so hard that i snorted!


regarding the conversation between sputnick & tropical storms, i always defer to TS. she knows what she speaks of. i would only add that given my time reading pedigrees, i would say the inbreeding didn't seem so obscenely utilized until the 70's. i'm surprised some of these dogs didn't start throwing third eyes or second hearts.

i was so disturbed by the intense inbreeding that i was seeing, i blogged it back in 2009.

tropical storms said...

Dawn one instance of which I'm personally aware was an extremely inbred litter in which a pup died. At necropsy it was found the pup had two complete miniature brains among other problems.

"dawn james" said...

fucking wow! thanks for that bit of frankenstein info. it made my day.

Anonymous said...

By 'good one' I mean one that can be trained and managed somehow. And one that doesn't snap. But, maybe not a fighter or a pet, but being a watch dog? Or something it can actually do that isn't fighting and the dog lives its life without mauling anyone. Someone has told me about a dog their relative used to have and I'm trying to figure out how that dog fits into things.

tropical storms said...

A genetically cold one would fit some of that description. These are dogs born with no inclination to fight or dominate. They won't even fight to defend themselves if attacked. They do not make guard or watch dogs, are easily managed and trained and are completely safe companions who will never turn on. They aren't the brightest dogs by any stretch but they are good pets.

tropical storms said...

A genetically cold one would fit some of that description. These are dogs born with no inclination to fight or dominate. They won't even fight to defend themselves if attacked. They do not make guard or watch dogs, are easily managed and trained and are completely safe companions who will never turn on. They aren't the brightest dogs by any stretch but they are good pets.

Anonymous said...

watched those videos from the anon above. why would anyone think pits are safe?

Anonymous said...

Just before the Vick thing blew up, here's how much of this went down.

Animal control officer (not a no kill clown!) in Georgia reports dog fighters, wants to pursue charges, gets a call from the sheriff's office saying Hands OFF! No investigation, not another word about any of it, or else. Threatened her.

A lot of law enforcement in certain parts of the country are into dog fighting or their relatives are. Fire fighters too for some strange reason.

They don't enforce the laws if there are any and they quash investigations

The Vick thing and more public awareness has reduced it some, but it still is ongoing

Remember that the local DA loser in Vick's county tried everything he could to quash that investigation, even using fake racism threats.
That criminal didn't lose his job and neither did his criminal wife who worked for the county, but some honest people who went ahead with the investigation anyway did.

Pit bull advocacy has increased dog fighting, and done nothing but increase the breeding

Berkey is thick headed. She's destroying these dogs because she's too interested in being bossy (yeah that word!) and spiteful and pushing people around. She doesn't even care about the dogs. Typical paysan brain.

Anonymous said...

From what I'm told about this one, she was smart enough to learn her master's property lines and frequent welcome visitors. She stared down anyone unwelcome, particularly if they were interested in the children. A human being actually looked after the children while this was going on (a.k.a., the dog was supervised). That was the extent of her 'nanny dog' duties, just to discourage weirdos. This family had some strange and harassing people move in nearby. They wound up moving, but the dog helped out until they did. I guess it is possible the person telling me was over estimating the dog and she intimidated people simply by being a large pit bull. She was a Georgia dog, probably north Georgia. Never fought, raised from a young puppy. I'm told she looked like Petey... she was white with black spots. I've been trying to track down her pedigree, but I don't know the breeder. She sounds unusual even for then and I don't think a person could get such a dog now. I don't think the owner had any other dogs while he had her. I can say I've seen people in this family and none of them look mauled. I do know they tend to be careful around dogs, so maybe most of them mostly stayed away from the pit bull... IDK, she was dead by the time I knew them.

tropical storms said...

Anon, you're causing me to experience flashbacks, lol. Shades of 1970s LE.

Dayna Hamilton said...

Thanks Packhorse, I may do that at some point, but I've discovered the sweetness (and challenge) of off the track greyhounds. I'm hooked, I love them!

Sputnik2009 said...

I really was asking TS questions, not posing a challenge. I know TS knows what s/he's talking about.

But now I do have a doubt, re the 'genetically cold' thing. Maybe it was different 50 years ago, but nowadays I think this is completely unpredictable. Plenty of cases where they suddenly turn on after eight years of seeming genetically cold.

Also don't know how it was 50 yrs ago, but I've seen litters of pit pups that were trying to kill each other at 5 weeks old already. In such a litter usually one or two especially talented neonates, a couple less talented, and some just currish (at that age anyway).

In a way I wish they'd re-legalize dogfighting and then dispense licenses to own pit types only to registered dogfighters. Any pit type found with a non-licensed owner summarily put down. It'd make the pit bulls happier and it'd relieve the rest of us from the unicorn morons.

Sputnik2009 said...

P.S. And any licensed pit owner / dogfighter caught with any non-pit dog in his/her possession or jailed for a year and all his/her pits summarily put down.

Anonymous said...

LOL. Well, I have to thank you for clearing up what a 'bulldog' is. There used to be what everyone called a bulldog at the end of my street when I was a little girl. There was nothing short or fat about this dog. He looked like a pit bull with an under bite and he was that fawn color. He was mean, too.

One day, my mother and I were walking and that dog was in the middle of the street waiting for us. My mother was small and was recovering from an operation and I was a little, bitty skinny kid. My mother told me to pray... and that dog was coming for us (probably me now that I know about these dogs). IDK what my mother had planned, but before she could do anything my next door neighbor's big old mutt came sailing through the air.

A for real dog fight commenced then and there, but Iremember the neighbor's dog was on top. I guess he knew he better not let that bulldog get a grip on him... IDK, he was a bigger dog.

Mama and I scurried home and she made some phone calls. By now, I'm praying for the mutt (I loved that dog). Pretty soon, he's loping up to our house miraculously unhurt.

That man fixed his stupid fence and put his bulldog on a chain. I think some people had a chat with him. He moved away not long after that. This was back in the day, I think someone told him that a dog like that wasn't welcome on a quiet street.

THAT is my personal experience with these dogs.

Oh, I once saw a man who was using one as a guard dog. But, he lived way out in the country and his animals were acres away from his pit bull. He said if he wasn't outside, to honk the horn and he'd come out. That the dog learned people's cars after a while, but it was better to just let him come outside if he wasn't outside already. He had a farm, and we bought produce from him. He lived by himself and the pit bull lived outside in a dog house. He specifically called it a pit bull. It was white.

This is my experience with these dogs. After nearly being mauled by one, I am scared of certain dogs. No one who has these dogs have ever pushed their dogs on me, but NONE of them owned pit bulls. Mostly Rottweilers, but I won't get anywhere near them. People who have them have enough sense to know that if I'm scared to death then the dog will be nervous. This is why I find nutters so strange, they just need to push their dogs on people who want no part of the dogs.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, sometimes I think we were better off with the dog fighters only having them. For one thing, they weren't breeding them to monster size.

But, dog fighting was bad..I think a lot of hidden illegal activity was going on around it and that can spill over and affect people in a different way.

But, at least dog fighters didn't think pit bulls were pillow pets for children. FFS fur mommies, buy your brat a pillow, don't use a DOG. Any dog, let alone one with a mouth full of fangs.

Anonymous said...

Oh, sorry, you were talking about the fight videos probably. (I didn't watch those.)

Anonymous said...

And the list of breeds the dog could be registered as would be well known and publicized as pit fighting dogs. People would be told these dogs are NOT PETS. They are working dogs and their job is chewing up other dogs in a pit. When they're not doing that, they're out on a chain.

But, if the dog fighters are discovered abusing their dogs (other than fighting), all their dogs could be seized and put down.

Anonymous said...

The main thing about re-legalizing dog fighting is that people like Tropical Storms who have been to dog fights, think it needs to be illegal. I've never been to one and I don't ever want to see one. So, I kind of have to go by what other people say... And people are dog fighting in cities now. So, IDK if there is any controlling it any more.

tropical storms said...

I have seen pups as young as ten weeks on chain sets because they were trying to kill each other. With regard to cold dogs they bloodlines which produced the greatest percentage of cold dogs died out (were bred out) by the late 1980s. You don't often see it anymore and I would not take a chance on a pup being cold. I could NEVER favor legalization of dogfighting for any reason. What we need to do is eliminate fighting breeds through spay/neuter and a strict policy of NON adoption. Anyone wishing to keep one should be required to have insurance of no less than 1/2 million on each sterile dog and one million on each breeder. They would also have to have a breeders license and be subject to property and kennel inspection for security. These measures would work and wouldn't eliminate most of the problems within five years.

Anonymous said...

Tropical Storms, what you're saying makes sense. I think some people maybe produced a few cold ones on purpose back in the day (the 80s) in order to get them to people who pretty much understood what a pit bull was, but didn't want to fight it.

I had a feeling that there weren't such dogs any more (cold dogs that could be somewhat trusted). I know some of these people are irresponsible with their dogs, but they can't all be. And there are too many incidents with people who owned these kinds of dogs a long time.

Were the cold lines in Georgia by any chance? I know some of the people who had old lines were in Georgia. I think the breeders might have died along with the old lines. So, another reason we are seeing some of the problems today.

I blame Michael Vick for a lot of the problems. His bust is what kind of put pit bulls into the "oh poor doggy" category. And, from what I have heard, he terribly abused his dogs (in addition to fighting them). And this made people think they had to be abused to fight which isn't true.

It is sad the breed is broken, but it is. I don't think it can be saved and Tropical Storms's measures are probably the best way to deal with the problem such dogs and dog fighting imposes on the public.

There are a lot of other breeds that make good pets that have some of the positive qualities pit bull owners claim their dogs have.. but these breeds are safe to own and don't have the genetic problem of suddenly "turning on" and chewing up whatever's in front of them.

I would never get a pit bull. I'm trying to convince some I know that a pit bull now and a pit bull from back in the 80s are two different animals.

tropical storms said...

Coldness wasn't regional, it was a strong trait in tightly bred dogs of some old families. Usually the breeders died, their dogs were dispersed and bred into other lines. Eventually the traits for which a given family of dogs were know. Coldness is not always the result of tight line/in breeding, it can arise spontaneously. That is not something you can predict to any degree. Unfortunately the group of dogs who fall under the umbrella of "bulldogs" were "broken" from their inception, they cannot be fixed. Aggression is simply who that are and who they've been from their beginnings. They were bred for no other purposes and now all work of which they were capable is a felony in ever civilized society on earth. It's time to let these dogs die out.

DubV said...

I'm thinking of and admiring the big old mutt that protected anonymous and mom in the comment above.

It makes me think of dog breeds that are placid but can take on a pit like this.

There are several breeds large enough to do it, but it seems that the amount of will to fight when necessary varies too much. So, having a dog that can survive a pit attack or aid in the defense from one is a crap shoot.

Surely a large GSD would have a shot, but many have been killed and a lot of that likely comes down to the GSD not understanding what is going on or having that fight within it when needed. There is even the rare retriever, like Osh Gosh, that can rise to the challenge.

http://cravendesires.blogspot.com/2011/03/osh-gosh.html

It seems hopeless though to find a dog that is both safe to be around and yet isn't easy picking for a pit.

DubV said...

Perhaps a large dog like a Newfie that has so much hair that it will be hard to get to their skin?

RSM said...

Pits were designed to be the most effective killers of dogs, and fight in ways other dogs do not understand. I am thinking of how when a dog submits, the pit disembowels it, instead of giving up like a normal dog would For this reason, getting another dog that can match it, or even survive a full on attack, would be tough.

Other than other, bigger, grippers (which can be even worse than a normal sized APBT), I have heard of livestock guardian dogs, particularly Great Pyranees, being willing and able to kill an attacking pit. My friends Great Pyr did kill a normal sized, attacking pit, not too long ago. They're very gentle with unthreatening animals and people.

Anyway, the problem with this strategy is that most dogs that can take on a pit, but not want to kill you too, need a job. You cannot just go get a Great Pyr and keep it in a suburban home, or heaven forbid, an urban apartment. They require acreage and a job to do all day. You might be able to get somewhere with a GSD, but again, you can't treat them the way people treat pet dogs. Your average pet dog doesn't stand a chance.

I did read of a dog, I think it was an American Eskimo or Samoyd, that didn't get killed by a pit because it was so furry that the pit could not get a grip. I am sure the pit could still tear a leg off, but it might buy time to intervene.

THIS IS WHY WE NEED BSL. This is why DOG LOVERS need to back it.
The best dogs for families are often the easiest target for a pit, and most modern families cannot provide the care needed for the few that can handle themselves. This is simply the risk of owning a dog these days (or having a kid), and lets not even talk about indoor/outdoor access cats.

What would the world lose if pits were gradually S/N into extinction? NOT A DAMN THING except some deaths maulings….. This is how I know natters are really sociopaths- if I had an animal that terrified everyone and made them unable to do their daily business without fear, and the breed had a huge stack of bodies attributed to it, I would GET RID OF IT. They revel in it, and send death threats to those who want to keep their maulers at bay. FFS/

Anonymous said...

What the mutt did was use his superior weight to knock the bulldog on his back. When I say he came sailing past us, I'm not kidding.

There was a hill and that added to his descent upon that dumb bulldog. I think he got the bulldog on its back and it never could get a grip on him.

He also had a set of fangs on him which I never really thought about until later, he was so gentle. He might have used those somehow to prevent a good counter attack.

It was bizarre, you know how in cartoons they show the dog fight almost circular... well, it was almost like that. And remember the bulldog would have been shoved down onto asphalt by a much heavier dog.

But, I do not know what you could go out and get that could do what the mutt did. He was highly motivated in that situation. And he was a smarter dog than the bulldog. The bulldog had its breeding and meanness, but the mutt had motivation and smarts.

I don't know if he got away and just loped off on his own or if some men intervened and broke up the fight. My mother made some phone calls.

This is a small town, so some human could have intervened and saved my next door neighbor's dog. Or he might have rendered the bulldog temporarily unable to fight.. IDK...

I don't know if the bulldog was hurt. He looked o.k. when he was out on his brand new chain next time I saw him. But, I didn't go ANYWHERE near him so all I can say he had all of his limbs and didn't have any large bandages visible from the road.

When the mutt loped up (looking pleased with himself btw) Mama ran out and got him to check him over and make sure he was all right. I think she gave him a steak or something, seriously. She was very grateful to the dog. No one ever complained about him sleeping in our driveway (you had to move him to get the car onto the carport) ever again.

That dog slept a lot, he was really a very unlikely champion. But, I guess he knew what was about to happen if he didn't do something.

The closest thing I can say that he was is what is called a lurcher. Which is a big dog that might be a hound and shepherd blend.

He was a big as a GSD easily, but not as furry. He had floppy ears like a hound. He was black and white.. kind of speckled. IDK what he was.. but, more than likely... there are a lot of hounds and hunting dogs (retrievers, pointers, scent hounds, sight hounds.. everything) around here. And some farm dogs for herding animals.

But, I think the main ingredient was he didn't want the bulldog to attack me or my mother. He knew what that dog was all about. And thank God he intervened. I loved that dog.

DubV said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
DubV said...

Thanks for the responses. I suppose a pit-proof-non-pit is a pipe dream. I guess the closest one could get is a lab/goldie that is gentle with the heart of a lion, like the venerable Osh Gosh. There is no way to purposefully adopt/buy one of those though, as far as I know.

I've shared here before that I used to go to a dog park a lot, prior to my dog being attacked.

My dog was friendly to all dogs except: pit bulls, boxers, mastiffs, and american bulldogs.

He would get his hackles up from a distance just from looking at them. I think some dogs sense that dogs with that particular look were bred to hurt them.

Anonymous said...

DubV, I think that might be it.. the dog has to know what a pit bull is and what it can do. It has to know that it has to get the upper hand right away or the pit bull will kill it*. But, this requires a dog with some street smarts which nowadays is hard for them to acquire. *If it's a dog that could take a pit, otherwise it has to know to run away as fast as possible.

herzeleid said...

A normal dog doesn't stand a chance against a pit bull, not so much because of the pit bulls strength, but because of it's utter disregard for normal canine etiquette. For a dog to have a chance against a pit bull it needs to have the strength and the willingness to attack. It's a difficult balance to achieve, having a dog that can kill an attacking pit bull but is still family and pet safe.

There are certainly dogs that can take out a pit bull, most notably those from the livestock guardian breeds.

For your edification I now present Justice T Kangal

DubV said...

If one properly exercised it, I'm thinking a GSD or dobie from a personal protection line might do well. Of course, they might not be as safe as pet lines of the same breed.

A large GSD that was determined to kill a pit bull could likely accomplish that, especially given their longer snout and protective hair.

That's all speculation though. I'm interested in what others think, as always.

tropical storms said...

Livestock guardian breeds if you have room and work for them. Same with GSD, they have to have jobs and space.

DubV said...

I can't imagine the bite force of a kangal.

I was impressed by my 30 lbs dog the other day when he easily bit through dental stix that I had a hard time sawing through with a serrated knife so as to present him with smaller chunks (he tries to swallow pieces that are too large).

Pits are obviously different. A normal dog being bitten by that kangal would run, stay down under the dog when pinned, or at least would yelp and scream when being bitten. The pit looks like a mixed martial artist on his back during a match.

Anonymous said...

I really think it takes the dog you want to protect you to perceive the bulldog as a threat. The mutt that saved me and my mother saw the bulldog coming for us (probably me seeing how bulldogs like to maul little girls).

He knew what a bulldog was and didn't go into this like what people describe a typical dog fight. I guess he imitated a bulldog, in a way. He didn't wait for the bulldog to get him, he got it. And he knew better than let it get a hold on him.

But, that was because this is back in the day and the mutt wandered far and no one can let their pets do that now. For one thing, people are unable to judge a gentle dog these days. This mutt lived next door to me and that was the only aggression I ever saw out of him. He most just alternated napping in his owner's driveway and our driveway.

But, I think it mostly takes a dog that understands it's not in a dog fight with a normal dog. It's in a fight with a bulldog. And rolling over and trying to surrender is death.

Also, in my case, I really think maybe some men my mother called broke up the fight because my mutt friend wasn't hurt and the bulldog definitely wasn't killed.

Who knows maybe those same people fixed the fence and chained up the dog, and the owner came home and found things that way. No one really discussed this around me since I was a little kid... everyone was just glad that my mother and I were safe and that I didn't have to see my dog friend get savaged.

If the dog understands what a bulldog is.. that is the key. But, the bulldog the mutt fought was a back in the day bulldog. A medium sized dog that was dangerous, yes. But, he was bigger and heavier than it. He probably had bigger teeth, too.

With the size of maulers these days.. I don't think my next door neighbor's dog would have gotten away so well... he wouldn't be able to use his weight to knock down an XL mauler.

DubV said...

Thanks anonymous. That was an interesting read.

My gut tells me that your mutt friend might have encountered this bulldog before. If 2 dogs are moving about the same general area, then I bet they had been near each other.

I'm thinking that the mutt knew this particular dog and had some sense of what it was like. That might explain the mutt's decisiveness. I'm not discounting a dog's innate abilities but thinking that direct contact is a heck of a learning facilitator.

I wrote before about my dog somehow "knowing" bully breeds. That seemed true, but I don't feel it was ingrained enough to cause him to launch a preemptive attack. It was just a warning. Not that the mutt acted rashly, but I think you get my point.

I really enjoy stories where "normal" dogs save people or even themselves from pits. So, thank you for that.

By the way, I feel bad somehow with referring to that dog hero as a "mutt". I think those here though know that "mutt" is no derogatory term and mutts of certain mixings can indeed be some of the best out there and heroic too. My dog is a mutt and better for it ;)

Anonymous said...

The dog's real name was Useless. It was given with affection because he slept so much. But, it is not a lot better than "mutt". He was a hero and I loved him a lot.

It wasn't until I got grown up and began to read about bulldogs that I realized what he really did for me and my mother. And because "bulldog" is usually shown to be a short, fat dog.. I was confused about that because my mother and I could have gotten away from what a "bulldog" is normally called.

Not until Tropical Storms started calling pit bulls "bulldogs" did it click with me. My parents are the ones who called that dog down the street a "bulldog". They would have known good and well that a "bulldog" wasn't some short, wheezing creature.

My mother had been through quite a bit in her life and no way she would have told me to pray when that dog was coming for us if we could just out run it.

I imagine you're right. These two dogs probably had encountered each other. This was probably why Useless accompanied my mother and I on her walks.

RSM said...

The. description of hero dog kinda sounds like a catahoula. They can be on the larger end of dog sizes, and are often ticked. Catahoula are hog hunting dogs, and are generally fearless. Sadly, idiots love to "enrich" pit bulls with them, because of their size, stamina, and willingness to go up against a hog. They are very smart, friendly, and hard working. They are also the only dog native to the USA (IIRC), and are the state dog of Louisiana.

Usually they are high energy, but I have known a few that we're layabouts. This is another dog unsuitable for suburban or urban life, they need lots of space to roam, and prefer a job. We had one a friend had to rehome, but our yard was just not enough. We sent him to live w FIL in the country, where he lived happily until a rattler got him.

Launchers are awesome, but I have only seen them in ferreting videos.

Anonymous said...

Useless looked a little like this dog only with floppier ears and a smoother coat. He was black and white.. kind of speckled.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Brindlelurcher.jpg
Or maybe more like this..
http://www.ukcdogs.com/Web.nsf/20da99299ad7613b852578d20056e272/8c57bb89c3d1f9b585257a210061cf45/Body/0.84?OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=jpg
This is a drawing of a blue tick coon hound. I do not think Useless was a purebred one by any means. I had to resort to a drawing due to finding a lot of puppies and female dogs represented. Also, he wasn't the colors of these purebreds. So, the drawing looks more like him than the photos.

But, he might have been something along those lines.. not completely because he certainly wasn't "active" or "ambitious". LOL

He was content to nap in two different yards and get scraps from two different households. He didn't have much of a prey drive since I had bunny rabbits and he left them alone.

He was just big and he had street smarts. Also, he knew he was our only hope... I really think he did. I wonder if he hadn't come sailing through the air if my mother was going to try to fight the bulldog and that's why she told me to pray.

He was a cool dog. I loved him so much. I'm sure we have some photos of him, but I have no idea where those would be... a lot of stuff has been lost.

And here is the thing, the bulldog was given a pretty long chain.. long enough he wasn't stuck in one place, but short enough that he couldn't get into trouble with it. He still tried to get at people, but the chain stopped him. When he decided to calm down, he had a nice shade tree and some water and food. When his owner was home, his owner would take him off the chain and hang out in the yard with him or take somewhere.. in the house, I guess, IDK for sure.

But, I think the only thing about the chain that made the dog unhappy was that he couldn't get out and possibly maul all of the people he saw walking on what he thought of as HIS road.

Chains aren't ideal, but with a dog that tries to attack people, I think they up the safety factor a lot. It's up to the owner to spend time with the dog and take it off the chain when they can supervise it.

Now that I am thinking about it, I have realized who my mother could have called that would have been able to break up the dog fight. They could have been there fairly quickly.

So, this might somewhat explain Useless's success against the bulldog. But, I like to think it was because my old mutt friend Useless was just that awesome and loved me and my mother so that he fought as no dog has fought before. :)

Anonymous said...

DubV, the bulldog got out all of the time. It's just usually, he had to squeeze under the fence, so that allowed someone time to get past him.

On this day, he was waiting in the middle of the road. We couldn't see because there was a hill. We topped the hill and there he was on the other side. He made a weird noise and then started moving toward us. He was waiting for us and ready to attack us. I was talking to Mama as we were walking, so he knew we were coming.

IDK if he had ever done that particular thing before. But, the other times he'd squeezed under the fence... who knows what he did or where he went. He might have harassed Useless. He might have killed some smaller pets like cats.

So, I think the animals in the neighborhood knew what he was all about. Even the humans knew, but until that day, no one expected he would be waiting to launch an attack on people.

The dog was not acting normal at all. It was obvious he was going to attack us and there was nothing we could do about it (as in no way to calm him or make peace or tell him to go on home). I was just a little child, but seeing that dog.. I felt absolute terror. Even before Mama told me to pray.

Anonymous said...

RSM, the photos of the catahoula do look kind of like pit bulls. But, they might not always have looked like that. I don't know if there are any hogs around here to hunt... I've never heard about it. But, this dog was a blend of several types of dog.. so maybe he did have some catahoula in him.

I think he was one of those dogs with his own personality. I really haven't met too many dogs like him. He let me teach him to shake hands. Now that I'm grown up, I realize probably 40 kids before me taught that dog to shake hands. He'd pretend like he was learning it and I felt so proud of myself.

Anonymous said...

I have been googling some of the larger dog breeds and trying to read which ones are gentle. Of course, I take that with a grain of salt because I can find 1,000 places that tell me bulldogs (by their various appellations) are so gentle that they are nannies, nursemaids, babysitters, and pillows... just ignore those jaws and fangs and the blocky head and oddly muscular body, that's all merely decorative. (sarcasm) The most terrifying thing about some of these other dogs is they keep saying 'it's probably not the best dog for apartment life'.

People have gotten frighteningly dumb if they need to be told a dog that is meant to roam throughout the mountains protecting a flock of sheep and that weighs about 150 pounds and sports a thick coat of fur is not a good fit for an apartment! But, I guess that is why people will believe something called a 'pit bull' was 'bred to be a nanny dog' and a dozen other laudable things that don't account for the name 'pit bull'.

However, I live in a house with a yard. It's not enough room for one of these big dogs and I can't afford the kind of things I'd need to do to make it happy. I wouldn't let such a dog out to roam as these are different times. When my sister had her husky, she had to move from a huge house with a huge yard into an apartment. It was a big apartment, but still. She had to make walking the dog her second job and her husky was a wee lass compared to some of these dogs. If someone has acreage and feels up to experimenting, there are some livestock guardian dogs that might serve as bulldog protection. But, then, so would a gun.

It frightens me that so many are unaltered and run loose. My mutt friend hero dog Useless rambled around and no dog back then was altered. So, he fathered a lot of puppies (and female dog owners didn't like him as much as I did). But, pups off of him would sleep and lope and be friendly... which aren't bad things. But, shit bull plus anything seems to ruin the other thing. How many pups and generations of pups are we going to have to go through to get past the mauler epidemic?

Useless has been dead some time, but I noticed a familiar gait in the friendly not purebred yellow lab across the street. He doesn't look like my old friend, but he walks like him, sleeps like him, and is friendly... the yellow lab/mutt is also pretty dumb. But, he's sweet which is reassuring as he lives with two little kids.

We are going to have to get rid of maulers soon or dogs will be ruined. There will be ones like Piney who is so unsound that he would have mauled someone to death by now due to his own misery if his owners were not dosing him with valium plus other drugs every day. And there will be ones that kind of look like another kind of dog... except something isn't right about them... and a lot of people will figure that out when they see the grip and shake on someone/something they love.

Anonymous said...

This comment quoted below hopefully in italics references the "gorgeous" dog Piney. I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all, but this is a random person.. not even Piney's owners. And Piney is an UGLY DOG. I get his owner's might feel obligated to think he's.. non-ugly, but other people? Come on...

I feel bad picking on a dog's looks, but pit bulls are rarely passably cute let alone gorgeous.

QUOTED COMMENT
One of my favorite me-and-my-dog blogs is Anaheed Alani’s I Love My Bad Dog Blog and not just because Piney's problems (pancreatitis, allergies, anxiety, aggression and on and on) make my worst days with my two pups sound like a trip to the spa, but because she’s funny, and open, and honest about the challenges, and you can tell she is devoted to her gorgeous AmStaff and would do any and everything for him—which is good because he honestly sounds like he may end up requiring all that and then some.

From here
http://thebark.com/content/worth-bookmark

DubV said...

Anaheed deleted most of that blog once Piney's proclivities were presented to the public.

It was damage control.

I think someone here saved the whole blog prior to her taking it down.

The blog made her look like a crazy person.

PS I once listened to This American Life until I really listened to Ira's tone and what he was talking about so casually. I think he is a bit of a sociopathic hipster. He talks about the horrible struggles of another human as if describing with pretense and condescension some ironic situation involving hill billies trying to find a parking spot at the local walmart. To him, the lives of others are glibly amusing. Fuck him, his wife, and his dog.

"dawn james" said...

i saved quite a bit of anaheed's blog before i published the first blog post on these idiots. a lot of it was mindless narcissistic drivel not worthy of taking up space on my computer.

"dawn james" said...

"Fuck him, his wife, and his dog."

ditto :-)

Mom in Eugene said...

Craven,
PLEASE, please, please do a write up on this latest death and BTM kennels. The whole XL/XXL pit bull thing is ripe for a story, and having 2 in an apartment with a 4yr old was simply asking for a tragedy.

I am very, very sad that the mauler killed an innocent baby. It should have killed that idiot breeder that made it such a freak of nature, and then used it as a breeding monster. The way he talked about him was nearly pornographic. If it had ripped HIS head off, I would not have been one bit sad.

Of course, it was the step dads dog, so I wonder how long they actually lived together. Of all pit bull dangers, kids visiting, temporarily living with, being babysat by, or with pits new to the home are in the gravest danger. I think nearly 40% of kid murders by dog are because of this.

Anyway, I know other blogs did a good job covering it, but I think it needs the Craven treatment.

"dawn james" said...

i'm thinking that maybe ken foster needs a little craven attention. he has been shooting his mouth off about the killer not being a pit bull, despite the fact that we have seen the ped it is probably 40% APBT. i'm at his nutter facebook looking at some of the dogs he has posted.

i suspect if any of these photos were attached to a mauling, he would deny they're mutants. what do you think?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152268536618904&set=pb.117510598903.-2207520000.1396308251.&type=3&src=https%3A%2F%2Ffbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net%2Fhphotos-ak-ash3%2Ft1.0-9%2F1011104_10152268536618904_1901978499_n.jpg&size=720%2C960

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152051881393904&set=pb.117510598903.-2207520000.1396308276.&type=3&src=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-frc1%2Ft1.0-9%2F532199_10152051881393904_257718074_n.jpg&size=337%2C673

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150603160943904&set=pb.117510598903.-2207520000.1396308421.&type=3&src=https%3A%2F%2Ffbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net%2Fhphotos-ak-frc3%2Ft1.0-9%2F423604_10150603160943904_54636466_n.jpg&size=960%2C663

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151277071353904&set=pb.117510598903.-2207520000.1396308378.&type=3&src=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ash3%2Ft31.0-8%2F458734_10151277071353904_1205037589_o.jpg&smallsrc=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ash3%2Ft1.0-9%2F154770_10151277071353904_1205037589_n.jpg&size=1000%2C664

"dawn james" said...

woops, here's one of the best

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150507228708904&set=pb.117510598903.-2207520000.1396308436.&type=3&src=https%3A%2F%2Ffbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net%2Fhphotos-ak-frc3%2Ft31.0-8%2F411126_10150507228708904_2079013521_o.jpg&smallsrc=https%3A%2F%2Ffbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net%2Fhphotos-ak-frc3%2Ft1.0-9%2F386556_10150507228708904_2079013521_n.jpg&size=1582%2C2048

Anonymous said...

Craven, there is a past post about the XL pit bulls and the whole breeder scene with that including eukanuba's involvement in it in a past blog post of yours, the post and the comments

i can't seem to post link but eukanuba was mentioned and ADBA

and Tia Torres posing with these breeders at their fake events

Packhorse said...

Pit bull mauls Texas toddler and her mother

(Reuters) - A Texas toddler suffered severe injuries to her face and head, and her mother was also hurt, in an attack by a pit bull the mother was watching for her boyfriend, police said.

The attack happened on Monday in an apartment in the town of League City, about 25 miles southeast of Houston. When police arrived, the dog was in the process of mauling the two-year-old child, as the mother made efforts to ward it off.

Officers shot the dog, and the child was flown to a nearby hospital, the League City Police Department said in a statement. The mother was also taken to hospital, with injuries to her hands and arms, police said.

Related: Phoenix judge spares life of pit bull that mauled child

Last year, a California woman was fatally mauled by a pack of pit bulls while walking near her home in Southern California.

(Reporting by Carey Gillam; Editing by Clarence Fernandez)

http://news.msn.com/us/pit-bull-mauls-texas-toddler-and-her-mother

Animal Uncontrol said...

And, on that note -

Breastfeed your toddler with your pitbull present!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=520526674669056&set=a.157237387664655.50008.125026394219088&type=1&theater

Bwahahahahahaha!

Anonymous said...

I'm on a phone and nothing is showing as a link... BUT, I figured out how to see this because I thought, 'what?'

And, lo, and behold she is taking the dog for a WALK and plopped down to give junior (the baby, not the dog) a drink. And the dog doesn't seem overly fond of the person taking the picture by the staredown in effect.

Don't worry, she has the end of the leash lightly under one hand and a kid climbing up her torso, so if you happen to be a 90 year old woman tottering out to walk your toy poodle (who I'll imagine is named Lady and dyed light blue), she has things under control. The baby's getting really good at walking, he won't fall... if you're worried about the pit bull thinking Lady is trying to usurp his nanny duties, well...

Anonymous said...

a commenter's 'staffie' is 'nanny' to all the kids in the household. well, there you go.

my rabbit is the accountant for all the adults in my household.

"dawn james" said...

"my rabbit is the accountant for all the adults in my household."

one pill makes you larger and another makes you small and the one that nanny gives you doesn't do anything at all.

:-) maybe that explains nutters. they fell down the rabbit hole.

Anonymous said...

They fell into a different kind of hole... maybe the one under the outhouse?

I noticed on one of those links you posted there was another photo about saaaaave the New Orleans pit bulls (read as dramatically as possible). Er, from what? Looks like all the munching and mauling and fighting is courtesy maulers and nutters. Ledy is in those photos. GAWD! I expect to see her pimpin' mutants next time I go to the bank... she's everywhere.

And some of those dogs are fighting dogs by more than their DNA. Good grief, they're ugly dogs.

RSM said...

OMG that breastfeeding one is INSANE. Did you see the look on that dogs face?
POOR SWEET BABY.
You worry about making sure your toddler is healthy by nursing them for a long time, but then own a freaking HUGE MAULER? GTFO.

The funny (as in, horrible) thing is that (white) moms that nurse toddlers 2+yrs old are almost always super hardcore about how formula is poison and kills. They are called "activists" and are very aggressive in telling people that NOT breastfeeding is child abuse.

You would not believe some of the things they say! Some even say if you don't want to BF, no matter how much it hurts, then you should have your kids taken away. Even the less extreme ones believe that B milk is so much better, and formula makes kids dumb, fat, and sick- poison!!!

I am sorry, but not only is that not at all true, I think a little formula is the LEAST of your problems when you have a little child around a mauler like that!!!!

tropical storms said...

Go ask Malice when he's ten feet tall.

"dawn james" said...

i'm sure ledy will be mighty persuasive convincing bank of america to give away a genuine america dog with every new checking account opened.

Anonymous said...

On Day 2 of the America's Dog Giveaway by America's Bank the entire banking staff had to lock themselves in vaults across the country after the horrors unleashed by one Pit Bull Kissing Booth too many. The teller drawers were unprotected, but the rampaging maulers kept the thieves at bay. Ledy's calling it a WIN WIN WIN despite theses facts...
1. Cleaning up the blood and replacing destroyed lobbies across the nation averaged out more than was in the tellers' drawers. Nutter sez, "Pibble was provoked."
2. Only six pit bulls were adopted. The proud 'fur parents' were wanna-be dog fighters who staged a dog fight in the bank parking lot (the pit bulls protest, "No, that was our idea. It's what we do!" Nutter sez, "Media hype! Why don't they ever report any of the other dogs that stage organized fights in bank parking lots? Sensationalism!"
3. Bank of America lost business. Nutter sez, "Their fault."

Anonymous said...

comment below quoted from (it's her in the photo, I edited out her last name)
QUOTED TEXT BEGIN
Ashley B
Love reading all these posts! This is me and my almost 2 year old son...( was taken over the summer while I was 2 months pregnant!) I nursed him until 2 weeks before I had my second son which was March 3! Happily nursing my newborn with no time-limit and pumping for my 2 1/2 year old! And if ur wondering ....I've given my pitbull breastmilk too! Why not?!?!
6 · Reply · Mar 15
QUOTED TEXT END

So, she has two babies. A 2 1/2 year old and one month old. And a 7 year old pit bull.

I don't have that many opinions about breastfeeding (other than overall it seems healthy for babies), but they all seemed really incensed that someone thinks they should use a cup. WELL, for the situations like the one pictured, it seems like it'd be easier. But, IDK, maybe it's not. I guess I don't really know exactly where she is. I'd be nervous to be that vulnerable outside (not only is her shirt up, she sitting down and holding the baby in a way that be a little awkward if she had to get up quickly).

Oh, and that's the pit bull. I'm sorry... when she looks at the photo, all she sees are warm fuzzies both in comments she made in August and in March. That dog is staring someone down... I wonder who had the camera? I am just hoping it was a random person or something and that's why she's unconcerned about the dog's impression (yes, I can scarcely imagine handing my camera to a stranger for them to take such a photo, but I can scarcely imagine taking such a photo and making a meme out of it).

When/where/how long to BF aside, it seems that if one was going to give a child a snack on a nature walk then one would secure the dog and maybe get off the path slightly better (the latter might not be important depends on where they were).

Packhorse said...

"I've given my pitbull breastmilk too! Why not?!?!"

These people are completely, truly, utterly insane. They need serious help.

Anonymous said...

Of course women should breastfeed when possible, at least if they care about the health and wellbeing of their children. It's obvious that that's what breasts are for. Whether you believe in "god" or evolution, human breast milk was designed as THE perfect food for human babies (raw, grass fed goats' milk is an excellent substitute in a pinch though). The idea that processed-to-death formula is remotely close in terms of nutrition, well, it's ridiculous but it makes a lot of people a lot of money, and helps reduce the feelings of guilt in women who don't breastfeed for whatever reason.

Still, I don't care if they're card-carrying MENSA members... people who allow pit bulls near their children are being absolute fucking MORONS.

Anonymous said...

Breastfeeding and breasts aren't really the issues I'm having with the photo. Breastfeeding seems healthy, that kid looks pretty young, and obviously breast milk and breasts pretty much go together. So, that's all fine.

And I realize the photo is more than likely contrived and posed and not a completely spontaneous moment. Therefore there might be at least one other adult there to help manage the situation (someone took the photo, after all).

But, just looking at the photo as if it's a little slice o' life...

It seems like she just plopped down in the middle of a nature trail and started breastfeeding. In a real situation, someone could actually trip over her. If someone was for real going to do this thing, they might want to just plan things out a bit better (it would only take a couple of minutes).

Even the way she's holding the child might make it difficult to get up quickly because.. tada.. Also there is a pit bull!

She's lightly holding onto the leash while potentially being tripped over, while partially supporting/holding her toddler who is currently availing himself of nature's sustenance. But, toddlers have little real world experience, so this is why adults might set things up slightly better like securing the dog beforehand, mostly.

The dog is staring at someone and her back is casually turned and she has her baby and.. there's the pit bull... most of my issues with this whole photo is the pit bull, really.

She's in her own little world with the toddler which would be fine if she was at home. But, outside of home, a person kind of has to pay attention to things going on around her. Like say, for example, things involving the pit bull.

That's mostly why I thought the cup would be handy. That way the boy can hold onto the cup and she can hold onto the mauler with both hands.

Finally, I can't really understand half of the stuff people post to FB. I don't have FB because honestly, I can't figure out what I'd put on it. I don't really have any personal photos I want to share with potentially everyone in the world. So, that's just me. (Waves cane, mutters about the olden days a.k.a. the 1990s.)

Anonymous said...

Packhorse, I just cannot imagine the circumstances whereby someone would ever consider breastfeeding a pit bull... even by proxy (e.g., one of those pumps and a dog bowl).

For one thing, if humans should only get human breast milk.. shouldn't pit bulls only get pit bull breast milk? Wait.. did she specify it was her breast milk? Hmmm.. maybe she milked a she-mauler for her furry friend? (In case someone wonders, this paragraph isn't for serious.)

I'm just hoping she had some milk she'd expressed for the little boy and for whatever reason, couldn't give it to him, so she gave it to the pit bull. But, I don't think I could ever bring myself to do that... The dog would be able to smell it and know where it came from. Not that I have ever been in a situation like that anyway.

Thank goodness my long-eared accountants are vegans. A quick trip to the produce aisle is all I need to manage.

tropical storms said...

You know it may be a good thing that these "pet" bull nimrods are so public in their insanity. The dog fighters shot themselves down with their own words and photos made public, I think these idiots are on the same course.

Anonymous said...

Tropical Storms, I hope it happens before they manage to embellish the nanny myth further (some want to abandon it because, duh, but it is on FB now so ha! not happening).

Maybe pit bulls were surrogate mothers who quietly bore the children of the lonely pioneer human companions? That's why they were a "farm dog". They didn't work the farm, they held the deed!

I have seen too many people claim "their friend a nurse" told them of a human/canine cross breed, so plenty of nutters (lacking science facts) will totally think it could happen. And they can blog about how it finally explains why they've always felt closer to dogs than humans.

Anonymous said...

I mentioned that I saw a guy using a pit bull as a guard dog on a farm back in the day, I have to say.. it was a smaller pit bull than most you will see nowadays. It was nowhere near any farm animals. But, I guess maybe it had more terrier in it than a lot you see now. The guy was outside when we drove up so the dog just glanced at us and went on with whatever it thought it was doing. IDK how effective this dog was at its job or how long he kept it. This is a different dog from the one who belonged to the uncle of someone I know. That was a large dog. It could be both dogs were cold and unusually smart for their breed.

But, I do believe there are people who knew someone who had a pit bull back in the day and the pit bull never mauled anyone... so, they think this means something about the dogs available now. Well, if we were talking about dogs bred for a sane purpose, then maybe it would. But, we're not and based on some crazy things we're seeing in these dogs (like the breeder whose dogs just killed his 85yo mother...8 dogs kept in one bedroom of a house..hello bad idea), the people breeding them scarcely know more than they need a male and a female. Oh and they can make money.

However, the bulldog down the street that Useless saved me and my mother from was a back in the day dog. I don't know if he ever got his teeth on any humans, but I do know he got out a lot and probably killed some smaller pets. He was a pretty aggressive dog. He would have been a terrible guard dog since he wanted to attack everyone he saw going down the street even people riding in cars.

Anonymous said...

Personally, I dislike all pit bulls. It doesn't matter if one, or two, or three have never harmed a human, or saved a human. The fact remains, pit bulls are dangerous animals, should not be pets, and if some of them turn out alright, proves nothing.

RSM said...

People drunk drive everyday, and get where they are going with no problem. Hell, people even trip out on acid, shoot up heroin and smoke crack while driving with zero problems. I have seen this IRL, sad to say (I was a wild teen).

Does this prove it is safe? Should it be legal because a drunk that drives intoxicated daily something like 10,000+ miles without incident?
I guess we ought to get rid of breathalyzers and all the penalties!

Of course, some of those people also crash into others causing serious injuries (crackhead), kill whole families waiting to walk across at the crosswalk (drunk), hit a pole while ODing (heroin), drive into a ditch flipping the car (acid).

But these are only a SMALL number compared to how many actually drive totally intoxicated.

According to NUTTER LOGIC, this means it is SAFE! I can hear it now:
"You have no business telling ME what to do in MY car!", "Those people that crashed were just bad drivers", "I can drive wasted and I am FINE!".

Ugh.

Mom in Eugene said...

ANd THANKS Anon, for proving my point:

"The idea that processed-to-death formula is remotely close in terms of nutrition, well, it's ridiculous but it makes a lot of people a lot of money, and helps reduce the feelings of guilt in women who don't breastfeed for whatever reason."

This is exactly the misinformed, wrong headed, jerk off attitude people like the woman pictured have.
FINALLY a study was done of siblings where one was BF, and the other got formula, and they found no differences. Once the confounders of class and education that plagued earlier studies were gone, the differences/benefits disappeared too. The only provable benefit? It reduces NEC in preemies.

Oh, there IS one big difference- formula REDUCES late vit K deficiency bleeding (which kills and makes kids brain damaged, BTW) because it has vitamin K, (and D!) but breast milk has neither (but its perfect, because evolution is perfect, LOL)

Once you can go into an elementary school and tell how kids were fed as babies, then we can talk.
(And I AM breastfeeding a toddler!)

Back on topic-
This mom pictured is SO worried about breast milk, but a pit bull- an animal PROVEN TO KILL KIDS- Well, that is NO PROBLEM. But a sip of formula, POISON!!! Worth shaming women over.
OH NOES!!

Makes no sense. But typical for the crunchy nature worshipper, that loves nature from the front seat of their giant SUV and Mc Mansion…….

Anonymous said...

The lady that cleans my mom's house every two weeks had to stop to tell us about "the new man" in her life, a rapidly growing 42 lb pit bull her daughter was not allowed to keep in her new apartment. The thing shares a bed with she and her 4 year old grandchild where they "argue about who gets the pillow next to me" She finished with "A lot of people are afraid of pit bulls!"
Being polite Midwesterners, mom and I said little. Behind her, as she spoke, crypt-creature Tia Torres along with her scary retinue, advertised more pitter saga. I feel like I'm sinking into a tarpit.....HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLP!!!!..


Anonymous said...

I agree. I think anything positive they can do can be done by another, safer breed of dog.

Animal Uncontrol said...

Milking a Pit Bull?

Great way to become a quadruple amputee! Bada BING!

Anonymous said...

Her pit bull animal companion can't be expected to drink the milk of another species. A she-mauler must be milked! I'm sure if she asked very nicely the she-mauler would understand.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous with the pit bull nutjob housekeeper

Please tell your mother to find a new housekeeper, and please report that nutjob to child services.

Anyone who is that crazy is a danger. I wouldn't trust them fror a minute. also She is going to get her granddaughter slaughtered.

Her daughter probably had to get rid of the dog because it bit someone or was acting aggressively.

Anonymous said...

No kidding.

Why do so many people sleep with pit bulls? They seem to do it more than any other dog owner. I didn't sleep with my dog when I had one. I have known plenty of people who loved their dogs, but their dogs didn't sleep with them. I've known people whose dogs had a dog bed in their bedroom. But, it seems like every time you hear about a pit bull, it's sleeping in the bed with someone.

I don't really care where people let their dogs sleep, generally speaking. But, it's weird to me how many pit bulls you hear about sleeping in beds or hogging pillows. IDK if its really more of them doing it or their owners just crow about it more thinking it 'proves' their dog is gentle.