Thursday, August 8, 2013

histrionic personality disorder















cluster Bs. they are like psychopaths but they possess the ability to emote.

these empathy challenged creatures are everywhere and of the four cluster B subtypes, the histrionic variant is probably the easiest to spot.














people suffering from HPD are overemotional and dramatic. they have difficulty coping with loss/failure. they tend to blame others for their failures and take no responsibility for their actions. they are easily bored and unable to deal with frustration. egocentric and hedonistic, they crave novelty and excitement. i suspect that hybristophilia is rampant in this personality disorder. there is a link between HPD and ASPD. researchers have found many women diagnosed with HPD have a male family member diagnosed with ASPD.


straight from the DSM
a pervasive pattern of excessive emotionality and attention-seeking, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
is uncomfortable in situations in which he or she is not the center of attention

interaction with others is often characterized by inappropriate sexually seductive or provocative behavior

displays rapidly shifting and shallow expression of emotions

consistently uses physical appearance to draw attention to self

has a style of speech that is excessively impressionistic and lacking in detail

shows self-dramatization, theatricality, and exaggerated expression of emotion

is suggestible, i.e., easily influenced by others or circumstances

considers relationships to be more intimate than they actually are

the majority of those diagnosed with HPD are women but men are found orbiting this cluster of annoying, dramatic and erratic traits. i was reminded of that this week when i read scorched earth's highlight of coyote racist, DEAN SMITH.









you may want to read 17 Barks blog post on racism first.

other links of interest
The Peep Show
Naughty Peep Show Part 2
Vintage Naughty Peep Show

my favorite book on the topic of personality disorders is available at amazon.
Theodore Millon is the man when it comes axis 2. don't settle for anything less.
















61 comments:

dawn james said...

i should add that histrionic personality disorder is the only personality disorder that has a correlation to physical attractiveness.

Shaun said...

My mother's a narcissist. As in, pretty much displays all of the traits / symptoms listed in the DSM. It took me 33 years to realize it, but I've gone no-contact for the last 3 and it's been heaven ever since.

Obviously the most prevalent symptom of narcissism is the unquenchable need for attention. I recently attened a Rennaisance Faire that allowed dogs into the park. Any guesses on the #1 breed on display there?

Anonymous said...

Circus Poodles?

Anonymous said...

Dean Smith: typical pit bull loving whack job. Again we see a troubled breed attracting troubled individuals.

orangedog said...

Chihuahuas. They are the number 1 choice of thugs because they are so scary and vicious.

Anonymous said...

I live in an "undesirable" part of the city (lots of low income/subsidized housing with the inevitable glut of wannabe gangsters, etc.), and about 7 out of 10 dogs being walked on any given day are pit bulls. The owners strut around like peacocks but most of us are just annoyed by them and their fleabags. If you gaze dreamily off to the side all through the approach and pass it drives them crazy... I make a point of doing it every time :)

skeptifem said...

saw something weird at the grocery store today. a lady with a dog inside, appeared to be a siberian husky, and I was like "uhhh what?" because instead of a vest or anything there was a big wooden home made looking thing that said "SERVICE DOG" that attached the leash to the collar. wtf. is this fraud?

scorched earth said...

skeptifem, I strongly suspect this is blatant fraud. The actual service dog community is fighting just this problem.

snack sized dog said...

skeptifem, my guess is yes, fraud. Huskies are not known for a temperament that lends itself to service dog use. I googled siberian husky service dog and the top two results are SHSDs with facebook pages! The first one Ranier showed a woman doing clicker training in Bed Bath and Beyond with the supposed service dog. Also the page showcases the half dozen dogs she owns. The second one Duke, was an untrainable reject that has become a service/guide dog. The handler is apparently unaware that guide dogs are specifically for the blind or visually impaired when she describes the photos she takes of him in detail including the nuances of the dogs' facial expressions...

snack sized dog said...

This personality disorder has so many traits that you see in normal teenagers "going through a phase" that they eventually and thankfully outgrow. It almost seems like adults with this have an arrested development. I think that about nutters in general - arrested development.

SadFalada said...

I have been in EVERY glamorous Place
And I mean CLASSY, I'm in Demand
And I have been Asked, in every Language
By every Rich and Powerful Man
From Pope to Royalty to Cheating Presidents
To Explain my Appendage, and What is the Evidence
That The Pit bull is the correct accessory for a Radiant Life
...So Here Is My Story, You've Met My High Price.

This Creature is Rare, Available almost to None
I alone knew how, The Secret To Pierce, all the Experts say, it couldn't
Be Done
And I say, I Say Unto You All, This Trophy be Misunderstood
I will Amend by my Wisdom, Generosity, Modest Intentions of Good
I have Clothed Him in Wardrobe to Rival My Own
By Top Designers CLAMORING for Display to be Shown
And that Choosing of Tutu or Soccer-Mom Glam
Pretties my Pit Bull, makes Him look less like Canned Spam
And more like the Magickal Servant
So Deserving I Am
And why Can't I Find A MORE DESERVING MAN?!?!

but Enough About ME, why Pit Bulls, you wonder
Don't they Mutilate or Kill at the tiniest blunder?
O.K.!! Well I'M still here, do you SEE any Mangles?!
Is my ARM reattached under my Custom Made Bangles?

Not that I would mention if it was...
Alright, I'll tell you under the CONFIDENCE clause..

The Doctors Worldwide found it a Miraculous Fact
That I could Dance The World's Stages
After a Full-Body Graft
Or that such a Lovely girl Should Deadly stepladder Climb
To Pile up 98,000 Handwritten Valentines....

But, aren't they Ugly, the HATERS insist
They have a Head like a Big Unexploded Cyst
.... Well, it's only by MY side
that looks depreciate
All will agree, the Attractive have an Awful Fate
Bringer of Both Joy and Discontent,
I'm quite understanding if people need vent

That All Others whether Celeb or Royal
To the intrepid and dazzling
Act only as foil
As We, I mean, I, fill the world with Light
For the Lumpen, the Dumpy, the Bleary of Sight
The Thick Of Wits
The Fashion Deficient
For them that talk like they're so Goddamn efficient
I lead all lesser folk, my Audience Admiring
And the Pit Bull's the One Who Never Shows Tiring
The Slobbering and Wagging, the Wigglebutt Knows
Is the Theatrical Act that makes a Grandstanding Girl Glow

Anonymous said...

"makes Him look less like Canned Spam"

...

"They have a Head like a Big Unexploded Cyst"

LOL, dying here!

dawn james said...

oh yeah. what anon said. ^

Anonymous said...

Histrionic Personality Disorder has been phased out in the DSM V. So has narcissistic PD. Just sayin.

dawn james said...

actually there was a great deal of resistance to the reworking/renaming of the personality disorders. the last i heard, NPD would remain and HPD was slated for some changes and a new name but i am not sure what the outcome was. i think passive aggressive PD was also on the chopping block because women felt unfairly targeted. anti-social PD was originally called sociopathic PD, there were rumblings that it will be re-worked to fit robert hare's profile of psychopaths and be renamed psychopathic PD.

none of these disorders have ceased to exist. you know, it's like calling pit bulldogs american terriers or st francis terriers or yankee terriers or even Pibbles. the same underlying problem still exists but now it has a shiny new name.

DubV said...

I'm not surprised that mental disorders more common in women are likely to be phased out as things. These decisions do not take place in a political vacuum.

vintage said...

No we see why serial killers like Ted Bundy received daily marriage proposals while on death row.

Miss Margo said...

They phased out masochism, too, but it exists on a spectrum and it can definitely be pathological.

I, too, laughed at "canned spam."

You are gifted, SF. I love reading your poems (and your other posts).

SadFalada said...

Thank you, Margo, I enjoy your originality and acute intelligence;
Craven Desires is a concentration of such people! I feel lucky!

Anonymous said...

The DSM V has changed the entire diagnostic process for PDs actually. They got rod of schizotypal or schizoid PD too, can't remember which one. Instead of labelling all the PDs like we know now, patients will now be put in "buckets". So someone would be put in the Borderline bucket w/ histrionic features, or antisocial bucket with narcissistic feature. Theyhave changed the diagnostic criterea for bi polar as more of a spectrum disorder. They got rid of aspergers too as its own dx. It's part of the autism spectrum now. And passive aggressive PD was phased out a long time ago.

Anonymous said...

And honestly the whole flip discussion of various mental illnesses on this blog..... just ick. This is part of the problem with mental illnesses. All you are doing is stigmatizing people who are ACTUALLY mentally ill. You talk about certain individuals being "psychotic". Have you ever met someone who is actually psychotic? I work with them every day. Someone who is a "rescue angel" (which just ew too. zero common sense or priorities on those peoples parts) is not delusional. Delusional is a pt I worked with for 5 months who thought she was being raped every night. Delusional is being unable to leave your house because there are witch children next door trying to burn you alive.This is all quite real to them and it is absolute torture. People with personaility disorders, whom are total PITAs in the clinical setting suffer in their own way too. Most of your histrionics or borderlines are near constantly suicidal. Not to mention that the cluster B'a almost as a rule have some sort of horrific trauma in their background. What you are doing is furthering the general populaces idea that mental illnesses are some sort of character defect which they most certainly ARE NOT.

SadFalada said...

Anonymous, I appreciate your sense of outrage at what appears to be a mocking, callous attitude, but I am one who came too close to what a layman would call a sociopath, a roommate many years ago in Ca
who was my first encounter with any person so deliberately destructive to me, and with absolutely no remorse--and two other people, one woman , one man, who made everyone around them miserable, which they seemed all too adept at doing, along with continual self-pity and calculating cruelty--they are not such rare birds as you may think, and I dare say anyone over the age of 40 has met more than a few--I respect that you've seen much more than the average person, but believe me, no matter the degree of illness, they share the misery and mayhem quite well.

Anonymous said...

Trust me, I know that. After working with chronically mentally ill persons for as long as I have, I have seen the damage they leave in their wake. There is a reason so many of them are dependant on state aid. They have either burned all their bridges with family/friends or the aforementioned just don't want to deal with them. I work with kids too. It's really sad to see the same thing happening with them.

DubV said...

Typed too fast, and kept correcting typos:

Delusional is a spectrum also, I'd dare say, with both a clinical and non-clinical meaning. Also, someone can be delusional about one thing, like dog breed, while not fitting the criteria for some diagnosis.

I'm far from my field here, but I think this is just a common sensical framing that dials back the compassion that must be necessary to work in a therapeutic setting with them.

Yeah, on some meta-level I feel bad for someone that has been traumatized or biologically different and is now dangerous or totally unbearable. However, I do not live on a meta-level, though I contemplate it from time to time.

If the Universe really is deterministic (as science leads one to believe), then none of us have any choice in our decisions, and any annoying person is just a few hair clicks in an important way from some traumatized person with a severe enough "thing" to be given a label. It's all just a matter of degrees and whether it shows up on a blood test, etc. I'm like this because of my past and the body with which I am stuck. Everyone can say that.

I knew someone that likely had narcissistic personality disorder. He was a total asshole as a result (sorry he had asshole-like personality traits), despite my ability to understand why. He is still an asshole as far as I'm concerned. It is not wrong to judge someone based upon their behaviors. It is adaptive and necessary for survival.

People with nameable disorders that cause them to be dangerous or unbearable are stigmatized for a very good reason. A stigma is placed upon these traits because they have negative repercussions to others. Also, if these things were not stigmatized, then what reason would they have to seek help other than to attain a purely personal, self-contained goal?

The bad thing I can see about a stigma is when it is applied too deeply or broadly (oh my gosh, that guy had mild depression, don't let him talk to the kids) or if it keeps someone from seeking help that they (and those around them) need. The first part is simply judgement gone to far or applied irrationally, and not a lack of any such judgement. The last part is what people, like anonymous, are around to do. Which is apply a treatment to these unfortunates that makes them welcomed and helps them, but would be disastrous if the same tact was taken by everyone in society.

DubV said...

A step further into my labeling as a bigoted asshole ;)

I have a friend whose brother is diagnosed with schizophrenia and is given to violent outbursts. He will be fine and then, he will strike someone or kick a cat or something. He often will go off his meds and such.

I do not blame him for this. He has a disorder. Yet, I do not want him in my home, near anyone that I care about, or near my dog. I take this precaution because the lives of myself and those which I hold dear is more important to me than his feelings of rejection.

I've met him at his parent's home and on a few outings. I am on my guard though. He must live with his parents and they take special precautions in case something might happen.

Now, how is this irrational and how is this not actually stigmatizing? It is rational, and if it is not applying a stigma, then I simply don't know the fancy word to get around stating the obvious.

"Please sit down Johnnie, while I put up the steak knives, lock my dog in a room which you cannot access, and put corks over the end of all my forks, while keeping you in the corner of my eye at all times. Don't worry though. I'm not stigmatizing you because I understand what it is that you have. Oh, and if you freak out and bust all my shit up, don't worry that's what home owner's is for. I won't judge you for it in anyway."

Anonymous said...

Excellent set of posts, DubV

tropical storms said...

Dawn given our respective educational paths I'd say you're entirely right in not letting him in your home or around those for whom you care. I don't hate or belittled people with mental illnesses, I just did'nt care to be around them outside a controlled clinical setting. I also don't hate bulldogs as you know, I just hate their perpetuation. Good thread, been enjoying the hell out of it.

Anonymous said...

That last post wasn't from dawn.

tropical storms said...

Oops! Sorry DubV. Not knowing your educational background I stand by my sentiments. Alas, alas muliti tasking not as easy as it once was.

Anonymous said...

When I refer to "stigma" I am talking about the perception in this country that of you have a mental illness you somehow have a character defect and you should "tough it out" or that the family will be somehow shamed because Joe has bipolar or schizophrenia, or the like. Attitudes like that keep people from seeking treatment . Untreated mental illnesses create such suffering from the patient and everyone around them. Same to the idea that all schizophrenics are dangerous. In actuality, mentally ill people are far more likely to be victims of violent crimes rather than perps. Dub, I don't mean to minimize your experience at all. If I were not a professional with the tools to de escalate a crisis situation before it turned into an outburst, I would probably fear for my safety on some level too.

It's sad by the way that family has not been able to help this person manage their illness better. It must be exhausting for the parents. There are various community organizations that can provide case management to these individuals and their families, keep them on their meds, etc. And if a violent outburst happens its hospital time. That's what hospitals are for, when someone is a danger to self or others. At a former job I had, I made home visits to patients in the community, mostly by myself. I only became concerned for my safety once in that time, and I saw some pretty sick people. You really can be as psychotic as you want as long as you don't bother anyone. There are options these days for non compliance with meds. There are long acting injections availible that can be given either monthly or biweekly.

But really in the end, you want people treated. Discussing mental illnesses so callously only furthers people's shame and guilt so they don't talk about it and don't get help until things are really out. of control. Worse yet they never get help, because they have killed themselves.

Jake said...

@Anon 9:35 - do you believe that psychopathy is a treatable condition?

dawn james said...

who said anything at all about schizophrenia, bipolar or BPD?

i now have serious doubts about your so called extensive experience working in the mental health field. i've worked in many settings and with many populations. so many of your comments irritated me but these 3 in particular:
"Untreated mental illnesses create such suffering from the patient and everyone around them."
"You really can be as psychotic as you want as long as you don't bother anyone."
"And if a violent outburst happens its hospital time."
about 10 years ago a fire chief was killed walking down the street when a schizophrenic randomly stabbed him. yeah, it's hospital time! too bad he didn't possess your superior tools to de-escalate the situation before it became a crisis. i have worked with a few dangerously psychotic individuals. one of the few dangerous schizophrenics i worked with was also a violent sex offender. one day he told me that he would never harm me but he would be proud if one of the others did.
and i got news for ya, treatment creates suffering as well. they must be closely monitored for life threatening side effects like agranulocytosis & neuroleptic malignant syndrome and suffer the annoyance of a host of non-life threatening side effects. have you ever seen irreversible late stage tardive dyskinesia in a 60 yr old man whose been on anti-psychotics for 40 years? not a pretty sight and horrible advertising for the patients around him. suddenly, med compliance plummets. have you ever known a man to get up in the morning and walk ALL DAY long, EVERYDAY? he is incapable of sitting still. thanks prolixin! have you ever come across a patient frozen in mid stride walking from his bed to his dresser, horror in eyes, a puddle of drool on the floor because he is unable to speak or even close his mouth yet his mind is fully conscious of the fact that he has no control over his body? a dangerous and potentially lethal side effect of his MEDICATION. i worked with one schizophrenic who mutilated his own penis in some kind of cosmic circumcision because in his psychotic state, the rings of saturn would be reborn.

working with the chronically mentally ill, i began to have a problem with suicide watches, particularly for schizophrenics. their quality of life is SHIT, with or without meds. for most of them, they are in tremendous psychic pain - ESPECIALLY when they are stabilized on medication and the reality of what it means to be them is painfully and inescapably obvious. who am i to stand in their way of them ending that pain?

i would never make fun of a schizophrenic, a manic depressive, a borderline... hell, i am not even making fun of HPD, NPD or psychopathy. the problem with cluster b is exactly as sadfalada has stated, they visit it on the rest of us and when they add pit bulls to their chaotic lives, they seriously endanger the rest of us.

SadFalada said...

Speaking as a person with little formal education, I've always wondered about the effects of a foreign load of chemicals being loaded into a human brain, as even caffeine or sugar have powerful effects on us, also mystified by the necessity of psychiatric drugs needing days to "build up" to pharmacological levels, unless that meant that the brain is undergoing physiological, not just chemical alteration?
Dawn's description of the devastating individual toll of psychiatric treatments is profound and heartbreaking--my mom, in the late 40's, then a teenager, vividly remembers a friend's mother coming home from "treatment" for volatile, (but never irrational or dangerous anger) --tragically for her, lobotomies were quite the vogue for "disruptive' behavior-- her mom goes in for "help" and returns-- the SAME DAY-- with swollen eyes and a nice docile new demeanor. Her intelligence wasn't damaged, but emotion, spontaneity, her great sense of humor and curiosity-- gone, irretrievably gone--and she knew they had gone, admitted to her daughter (in later years) that she couldn't find any worth in life, but couldn't summon enough passion for suicide--truly a hellish limbo-- but sufficient for a good, uncomplaining housewife.

dawn james said...

a lobotomy is kinder than anti-psychotic medication.

Anne King said...

wow...this is quite the thread...probably the least profound thing on this thread is my lame ass comment, but it's all I've got...this stuff is almost overwhelming

dawn james said...

"Please sit down Johnnie, while I put up the steak knives, lock my dog in a room which you cannot access, and put corks over the end of all my forks, while keeping you in the corner of my eye at all times. Don't worry though. I'm not stigmatizing you because I understand what it is that you have. Oh, and if you freak out and bust all my shit up, don't worry that's what home owner's is for. I won't judge you for it in anyway."

i couldn't have said it better dubv.


"But really in the end, you want people treated. Discussing mental illnesses so callously only furthers people's shame and guilt so they don't talk about it and don't get help until things are really out."

yes we do want these people treated. the problem is, they can not be forced into traditional therapy and these people are attempting to self medicate with dangerous dogs or 40 cats! the self help path these individuals follow not only do not address their issues, they amplify their issues. no amount of compassionate coddling on my part is going to persuade them to seek PROPER treatment. this is the great problem with cluster B, they are not motivated to change and even when they are motivated, therapeutic improvements are insignificant. for true psychopaths, those improvements are non-existent.

regarding my "callousness", please read this blog.

dawn james said...

oh, and watch the video.

SadFalada said...

Also, may I say, the sociopaths that have intermittently wrecked and poisoned my life didn't seem in the least to be suffering; it is the rest of us, civilized, polite, believing that people are rational, we that have inhibitions and diligent consciences about not harming others, we are the ones that shakily pick up what's left while, tra-la, tra-la, the wolf casts around for the next sheep.
The mentally ill--when not institutionalized, they get a lot of latitude--my 6'2, 225lb brother, a former Marine, was slammed in the face with a beer bottle while talking in a quiet neighborhood bar- he turned around with blood running from his forehead, and a clamor of voices told him the guy "wasn't right"...20 min later, the guy made another attempt but Steve just twisted the bottle out of his hand and gave him a hard look--no police, no retaliation, I only hope that mentally-ill man wasn't suffering as he tried to smash my brother's face...I find it curious that for all their disrupted and fractured perceptions of reality, their attempts at doing harm are so lucidly and purposefully carried out.
Dawn, the blog referenced above is fantastic, happy to read it again, subtle and penetrating.

Anonymous said...

Ok, yes there HAVE been outlying cases of psychotic. persons harming others, but just because you have a few antecdotes does not mean it applies to a whole population. It is just a fact that mentally ill people are victims of violent crimes much more often than the general populace. It's just a fact.

You CAN be as psychotic as you want in the community as long as you don't bother anyone. I cannot tell you the number of times when I worked in the community (on an Assertive Community Treatment, or ACT team)where we had an extraordinarily sick, delusional patient we believed needed inpatient treatment be sent home because they weren't endorsing suicidal or homicidal ideation. I had a patient with such severe negative symptoms and that "autism of schizophrenia" that he was just unable to interact socially at all. He was an incredibly kind hearted man who allowed a few homeless guys stay in the upstairs in his house which they paid no rent, trashed, and ate all his food. He didn't understand how much he was being used but wouldn't kick them out. There was nothing I could do. I had another guy who was sure the FBI was harassing him because he wrote a letter to the editor about medical marijuana. Everything in his life was a conspiracy, down to the 3 beans left in a colander which he claimed were left there by government agents breaking into his house. But he was quiet and didn't bother anyone. He refused medications and we couldn't get him hospitalized or med panelled because of it. He was a very smart guy, graduated from Cornell.

And yes, I have seen several people with longstanding, chronic TD. One was the woman who thought she was being raped every night. She shook so badly you had to hold her water cup for her when she took her medss otherwise it would go all over the floor. Psych meds, esp anti psychotics do have untoward side effects. The tandard APe cause EPS, TD, and NMS at higher rates. NMS is still not very common though. The atypicals can cause obsekce Wight gain, high cholesterol, and insulin resistance. The only med that has a bad rap for agranulocysosis is clozapine, which patients are required to be in a monitoring program and have weekly or biweekly (depending on how long they have been on it) CBCs. They cannot refill scripts without furnishing results to the pharmacy. Unfortunately you have to decide what's worse, your symptoms or the side effects.

Why would you ever want a lobotomy? You basically become a vegetable after having one. Personally, I think I would go with ECT over some of the drugs. I have seen ECT produce almost miraculous recoveries in the inpatient setting. And yes, I DO have training in crisis management. From verbal de escalation right on through evasive maneuvers and physical restraint. I recertify every 6 months. So believe what you want. The attitudes I have gotten here are simply shocking. The way your posts read is ,"I feel sorry for the mentally ill but out ot somewhere I can't see it". I only hope that none of you are faced with having a loved one with mental illness or being diagnosed with one yourself. I think I've said all I can, so.I am going to back out now.

DubV said...

"The attitudes I have gotten here are simply shocking. The way your posts read is ,"I feel sorry for the mentally ill but out ot somewhere I can't see it". I only hope that none of you are faced with having a loved one with mental illness or being diagnosed with one yourself. I think I've said all I can, so.I am going to back out now."

That's fine, be shocked, but I don't believe you have refuted anything that was written. It just doesn't seem nice to you, so therefore it must be wrong logically as well in some unspecified way. Is that about right?

dawn james said...

well, that's another whole lot of words and not one of them addresses my question (who said anything at all about schizophrenia, bipolar or BPD?) or any of my comments or criticisms of your comments above. so i will be forced to deduce that our anonymous mental health rescue angel/lion tamer is over identifying with the patients because she too suffers from a mental illness and so has decided to move this discussion into a pissing match. "i know this and i know that.." my examples were given to challenge your comments. your examples were nothing more than oneupsmanship.

the reason i left the field displayed in living color. too many people who should be focusing on fixing themselves instead are drawn to fixing others.

that is not to say that the mentally ill have nothing to contribute to the field. on the contrary, google Dr KAY REDFIELD JAMISON (bipolar), Dr MARSHA LINEHAN (borderline) and SAM VAKNIN (malignant narcissist or psychopath)

but the first step as always is admitting you have a problem.

Miss Margo said...

OH JESUS SF! You KNEW someone who had a lobotomy?!?!

I read a book about it. Horrifying.

Dawn: You might like to know--or might NOT like to know--that at my last university, the campus health clinic prescribes the antipsychotic Seroquel FOR INSOMNIA. That shit is an antihistamine that causes obesity and, following that, diabetes. It's awful.

Miss Margo said...

Jamison's book on suicide, "Night falls Fast," is outstanding and the best I have read on the subject.

Sam Vaknin is a fraud who got his "Ph.D." from a diploma mill. I'm sure you know that already, I just felt the need to state it for anyone else reading this.

dawn james said...

i've never known anyone who under went a lobotomy and i am not advocating lobotomies. i simply pointed out that the side effects of anti-psychotic medication are horrendous and the treatment this person seems to think is the answer is in reality just another set of ugly and dangerous problems.

everything kay redfield jamison has written is brilliant.

vaknin, yep but it doesn't discount his book, which is pretty good.

dawn james said...

re: seroquel, this really doesn't surprise me too much as i have such a low opinion of doctors in general.

SadFalada said...

Oh, no Margo, that was my mom, a friend's mother during the late 40's--my mother knew her, and said that she acted normally, except devoid of emotion. (Botox, anyone?)
I looked up Sam Vaknin after Dawn referenced him...so he got his doctorate from a diploma mill, and with his IQ of 180? Hmmmm!
I overheard a school psychologist describe me as low-normal after a routine 6th grade IQ test, however, nobody, even the bright kids, were given their number scores, I guess it was considered detrimental...strange that he wasn't snapped up by a top university with such an impressive and publicly proclaimed score!

dawn james said...

sadfalada, i can not believe that your 6th grade IQ test accurately represents your IQ.

google "i psychopath"

Miss Margo said...

I'm with Dawn, SadFalada. Your IQ has to be up there. Also, IQ scores are not static. When I took the same test in my mid-20s, the score was 9 points higher than the score I received in high school.

DubV said...

Saf,

IQ and other achievement tests only identify a limited number of skills. And for them to have any accuracy, the test taker must have good test taking skills, feeling well that day, not experiencing test anxiety, etc.

Basically, I only trust them when someone scores well. What I mean is that I know many very smart people that did not score well, but the people I know that hit near the ceiling for the test were all smart but also were good test takers, didn't have any anxiety over the test, no hint of dyslexia, etc. Basically, you need all these non-smart related things in place in order for them to gauge your ability on a limited set of skills that is hoped to translate more broadly.

My school district gave the scores to parents and the parents could share them with you or not. I didn't know mine until I was an adult and looked over some records. I was given my first one in the 1st grade while I was suffering from a very bad speech impediment (stuttering with only 25% fluency meaning that only 1 out of 4 syllables I uttered were done so without a stammer). This meant that the verbal and word related subtests were going to be hampered. They recommended that I come back after intense speech therapy. I was retested 6 years later, and you can imagine that my scores were higher because I could then speech and be understood. Nothing about how I thought had actually changed.

Oh...and Richard Feynman the Nobel Prize winner? He scored only in the slightly above average range. Maybe he was playing in the sandbox and mad his parents pulled him away that day and didn't see the point of the test? Maybe the test couldn't adequately test someone that thought in a way different enough to revolutionize science?

SadFalada said...

Thanks, Dawn, but if you saw me in a math or science class, (at the high
school level!) you'd see what a tool I am.. I barely graduated!
So, I delved into Vankin, and I must say (unnecessarily) what a wallowing, gaseous, officious, self-sanctifying Phallus!! All Hail! And describes himself as an Enfant Terrible, a deliciously Napoleonic bit of Smarmy self-congragulation--apparently the Enfant didn't realize lesser beings could easily look up his sources of bargain diploma-printing.
Thanks Dawn! This will be much fun.. maybe I'll gain a few IQ points via osmosis...it just ain't fair that he gets to say " I am by far the most intelligent person I know" ....what is he, like, conceited? Stuck up?

dawn james said...

i have a very distinct memory of creating interesting patterns on the multiple choice test answer sheets in 6th, 7th and 8th grade.

SadFalada said...

Dawn, you got multiple choice? Gyp!
My first 4 years were in Catholic school--we had to write out everything in cursive, and were also judged on Handwriting!
(Also, quite a few pop questions about Jesus, his mottos, adventures, avoidance of temptation, love of Little Children, picnics of bread and fish, "blecch!"
Mary, Joseph, asst. Apostles, etc)

SadFalada said...

OK DubV! Spill it!
Your ★★★ IQ★★★
SCORE

Miss Margo said...

SadFalada: fellow Catholic School grad here. Grades 1-8. Irish nuns. Scratchy woolen skirts and v-neck sweaters. Oh yes, I remember it well...

SadFalada said...

Oh! So exciting! Were your nuns in full flapping heavy footed stealth mode like ours were? Grim pursed up mouths and swinging crucifix, long yardstick or ruler, laser eyes, a passion for penance and a disdain for free thought? Did you get any science courses dated past 1470 AD? Did the Home Ec course concentrate on fish. cold oatmeal, and Fasting? Did they tell you boys were the devil till marriage, and then you must always obey? Yaaay!! We must compare our incarceration someday!
(School uniform: black and blue cotton plaid jumper, white blouse, little black round lace thing for headwear in Church--in bitter weather, girls could wear gray tights--also, on Fridays our sack lunches were checked to be sure there was no meat--those nuns kept me safe from Hell for 4 years!)

tropical storms said...

Wow. Just wow. I've had a number of Catholic friends from childhood on but never any who went to parochial school until lately. Closest I ever got was Sister Mary Elephant. That sounds like a nightmare, so glad I was raised a hellbound heathen.

SadFalada said...

Oh, TC, it really wasn't so bad..the worse in my memory was Confession, as 9 year olds living on a remote island in the Bering Strait just didn't have a lot of sinning opportunity--we had to invent sins for Confession! (Maybe that's a sin?) we would trade sins like baseball cards on Confession Day!
As soon as I had the choice , I abandoned the Church as fast, and with all the remorse of a rabbit--but I get nostalgic when I see an old-fashion nun: they are extremely rare nowadays

SadFalada said...

Oops, sorry, I meant TS! Ten Hail Marys!

tropical storms said...

Lol, not on my behalf. Back in the day I was flying into a southern plains state to set up an operation. A nun in full regalia was sitting next to me on the flight. Without getting into specifics I told her I would soon be moving there. She said she would pray for me which I thought quite kind. I don't think I've seen any in full habit since.

SadFalada said...

I think they always offer to pray, its their first and most important class in nun school, and always infallible fall-back conversation. Next time say you're on your way to overthrow the Pope! You might get a free scapular!

DubV said...

"OK DubV! Spill it!
Your ★★★ IQ★★★
SCORE
★"

Wouldn't that kill, one way or another, anything I wrote here afterward?

In case anyone isn't familiar, a raw IQ score doesn't really mean anything. There are several different tests with different variances around the average score. What is most informative is knowing, for the particular test, how many people, on average, score above or below you. So, you always need to know what test they took, etc.