Is an american bulldog a pit bull?

fuzupf and fuzzy logic

fuzupf's panties are in a bunch because someone in missouri called an american bulldog a pit bull. according to fuzupf "if they can say an ambull is a pit bull than a: malinois is a GSD, a husky is a malamute, a bull mastiff is a poodle..."

the answer to fuzzy's question: it depends. it depends on your definition of "pit bull". according to my definition, yes the american bulldog is a pit bull. i believe pit bull has two definitions. the first is slang or an abbreviation for the american pit bull terrier. the second refers to a type of dog. and by type, i mean function – herding, retrieving, pulling, pointing, racing, guarding, tracking etc. in the case of "pit bulls", that function is GRIPPING. gripping dogs were bred for fighting and baiting. gripping dogs were bred to perform dangerous, violent jobs and refused to quit; APBT, american staffordshire terrier, staffordshire bull terrier, the original boston bulldog, bull terrier, dogo, presa, and yes american bulldogs and alapaha bulldogs. at one time boxers and great danes would have been included in this category but they are now only bred as companions and lack the physical prowess for their original function.

of course any pit nutter, dog fighter or pit bulldog fancier who includes Helen Keller's Sir Thomas, Teddy Roosevelt's Pete, General Patton's Bull Terrier, Bogie's boxers and Sgt Stubby on their "famous pit bull" list also tacitly consents to the dual definition of "pit bull".

back to fuzupf, his logic is not even close. a better analogy would be a husky is a sled dog, a lab is a retriever, a gsd is a herding dog, a beagle is a scent hound. let's see if fuzzy can find two neurons to rub together and connect the dots.

brief history of the american bulldog

1700's original british bull baiter comes to america and morphs into the bulldog.

1835 blood sports are criminalized in the UK and the bull baiter is phased out and the fighting nanny dog is phased in.

1960's american bulldog is on the brink of extinction. a handful of bulldoggers get together and resurrect the ambull. there is not enough genetic material available so they use pit bulls.

Laura Ingalls Wilder's bulldog Jack circa 1880

Colby's Pincher circa 1900

MAC the MASHER, ALAN SCOTT'S foundation dog for his performance line of american bulldogs circa 1960.

JEDI, purebred american bulldog

fifty years later, ambull breeders continue to infuse APBT blood into bulldogs. don't believe me? check out the pedigree of LICHTHARDT'S JEDI. Jedi's dam was an american pit bull terrier bred by FLOYD BOUDREAUX. JEDI'S grandfather was BOUDREAUX'S MAVERICK ROM.

DIXIE BLACK JACK, purebred american bulldog

check out the pedigree of SCOTT'S DIXIE BLACK JACK. surprisingly LITTLE information about daddy's side of the family. i wonder why?

here are a few more pedigrees of purebred american bulldogs with boudreaux blood:

KONFEDERATE KENNEL'S CROW OF BLACK CHAMPS

KONFEDERATE KENNEL'S CRISPY

KONFEDERATE KENNEL'S RUSTY

here is an american bulldog forum talking about american bulldogs with KERSHNER/MAYFIELD blood and a pit bull forum discussing ROD KERSHNER'S pit bull dogs. hmmm....

maybe we should abandon the terms "pit bull" and fighting dog and replace them with a more basic yet accurate definition - GRIPPING DOGS. i can't take credit for this. the credit belongs to APBT diva, DIANE JESSUP.

some of my favorite quotes from JESSUP'S website: "I can produce health tested, sound, people friendly, utterly tough, athletic gripping dogs with the drives necessary to make them of legal use to today's society - as they have been of use for centuries past."

American pit bulls which display behavior "typical" of their heritage are gripping dogs; they come from a long, long genetic history which dictates they get a hold and HANG ON!

Hunting with dogs is controversial, of course, as some people consider it cruel to both the game animal and the dogs. However, like it or not, gripping large game is the working heritage of this breed.

apparently JESSUP gets a little excited when dem hogs gets to squealin too. she directs her fans to a couple of hog doggin videos - here and here. so people can see what a good pit bull and a cur pit bull can do.

the alapaha bulldog is another example of a gripping dog. this bulldog also sports a fair amount of APBT in their blood. one alapaha breeder WILLIAM CHESTER is described as an "Ol Pit-Bull Man" who bred alapahas that were often man aggressive. CHESTER'S old family silver dollar recipe: catahoula x apbt x mountain bull. WARREN LANE was another breeder who infused apbt into his strain of alapahas, although there is no mention of man biters. LANE'S motto "a Bulldog should look at you and through you". i have been on the other side of that reptilian stare.

a few good links:

american bulldogs @ molosserdogs.com

alapaha bulldogs

list of banned alapaha breeders (note the violations)

discussion of black ambulls at manstoppers.com

oh and don't forget to vote in the fuzupf poll at the top right corner of the page.

GRIPPING DOGS: THE SEQUEL

Proof it is not just the owner

The naive, desperate-to-belong, young Junior Nutters have been out in force, claiming it's not the breed, its the owner.

br said...

ARE YOU SERIOUS?! I thought this debate was over. It's not the dog, it's the owner. Proved over and over again!

Just in case you don't agree with me, me and my Pitt/Mastiff will meet you somewhere, and he will lick the heck out of you.

Below is a video that shows just how wrong these naive young things are, but first here's a description of how these genetically determined, breed-specific behaviors work.

Read here how Viszla's get high on chromosomes and then express their joy by performing a man-made, genetically determined, unnatural behavior.

This is a man-made exaggeration of one portion of a wild predator's hunting sequence that is really quite bizarre when removed from the context of the specific man-made job of bird hunting.(p. 71 Semyonova) It has been noted elsewhere that it would not be unheard of for a pointing breed owner to walk in on his pointer frozen stiff in front of a feathered hat. Here are other weird things pointers have pointed.

Retrievers also have been bred to have a bizarre, genetically determined behavior that was developed by exaggerating another segment of the wild predator's hunting sequence. If, as an irresponsible owner of a retrieving breed dog, you let your retriever get out of your yard, you might be presented with this:

This behavior is guided by the dog's man-made, genetically determined love for looking for dead things to carry gently and bring back to a beloved two-legger.

When you look at the following video, you will first note that owner is a moron who's dressed himself to look like a female baboon in heat presenting to a male. But, that's somewhat beside the point.

Obviously, he's a highly incompetent and irresponsible pit bull owner who just let his dog attack unprovoked, and is completely unable to stop the attack.

But, watching this video also makes it clear that it's not just the owner. The pit bull's behavior is extremely bizarre and unique to gripping dogs. The pit bull is completely oblivious to what's going on around it. It is in its own little world. It is high on chromosomes.

Yes BR, Dawn is serious:

dawn james said...

it's BOTH owner and dog. ALWAYS.

There's one way to test that theory. Take any serious pit bull mauling and substitute other breeds. Take 85 yr old Rosie Humphreys for example. Rosie and her small poodle were killed by BRIAN PENNINGTON'S loose purebred american pit bull terrier during a routine daily walk. Now try substituting golden retriever in that sentence. How about dachshund? collie? Absurd, isn't it? If breed is truly irrelevant and the problem is truly irresponsible owners, then ANY breed of dog owned by BRIAN PENNINGTON would have yielded the same deadly result.

My wish for baboon draws owner before baboon draws owner drops the leash one day and someone really gets hurt:

Thanks to Branwyne for finding this video!

youtube gripping dog

title: AMERICAN BULLDOG... VERY AGGRESSIVE!
caption: A typical american pitbull called "Bullet" bitting a rope!

Grippers in History - 19th Century Views on the Bulldog

Inspired by Craven's post answering the question, Are American bulldogs pit bulls?, I pulled together descriptions from 19th century books of the iconic gripper and the granddaddy of all the gripping dogs we have to deal with today - the bull baiting bulldog from Britain.

Diane Jessup, the pit bull maven who coined the term "gripping dog" believes these bulldogs were identical to american pit bulls.

How exactly did 19th century veterinarians, naturalists, and sportsmen perceive gripping dogs?

SPOILER ALERT: 171 years ago those knowledgeable about dogs felt exactly the same about grippers as we do today and made the same exact observations and arguments: condemnation of owners as the despicable dregs of humanity; the genetic monster dog; genetically determined violence; grippers are different from all other dogs; grippers attack unprovoked; grippers attack their own masters...and there is a lot more, so much more that it is very hard to list it all. So please, when you come across something from these 19th century texts that sounds like it came right out of the maul talk manual, point it out!

A must-read is the very first description of the wiggle butt.

And look for the spiritual ancestor of Craven Desires. Before the frankenmauler, there was the "idiot dog!"

All of the titles are links to the original texts copied here. The old texts are images and you can click on them to enlarge them.

Rural Sports by Delabere P. Blaine, esq., 1840

Very strange and amusing comment about the image used. Tell me what it means!

The Naturalist's Library: Mammalia vol. X, Dogs, by Leut.-Col. Chas. Hamilton Smith, 1840

Hamilton-Smith describes the bulldog as being similar to the mastiff and "the Cuba (mastiff) but with the peculiar features of the bull form more strongly marked; 'the distorted blear eyes, cheeks and lips sordid and hanging loose, looking like monsters, and the more repulsive in aspect the better in qualities."

'The Bull-dog is possessed of less sagacity and less attachment than any of the hound tribe; he is therefore less favored, and more rarely bred with care, excepting by professed amateurs of sports and feelings little creditable to humanity."

He describes locking jaws as a spasm. He is not talking about a lock in the bony structure of the jaw, he is talking about the muscles of the jaw being able to lock onto its victim and not let go. And he mentions that bulldogs are different than any other dog.

The sportsman's Cyclopaedia by T.B Johnson, 1848

Johnson describes the bulldog's temperament as being the opposite of all other dogs . He illustrates this by describing a bulldog attacking his owner.

He says they are useless as guard dogs because they are lazy, not protective of the family, and might let the intruders murder the entire family. But that when they do attack, they do not bark or give warning or alert.

He ends the description of the bulldog by hoping they will become extinct because they serve no useful purpose and are dangerous.

A History of the Earth and Animated Nature by Oliver Goldsmith, 1859

Goldsmith again describes the incredible ferociousness of bulldogs, and notes they are unlike other dogs, He observes that they are stupid and useless for anything but violence. He disparages those who own and breed these dogs as uneducated, savage barbarians.

The new American Cyclopedia vol. IV, edited by George Ripley , Charles A. Dana, 1859.

The bulldog is described as being "distinguished almost solely for its undiscriminating ferocity."

To quote Craven from the Bloodhound blog: "Training and environment does not follow the bulldog through history, genetics does."