Monday, September 11, 2017

Man Fighters

So the dogmen culled their man fighters did they? No, not so much.

This is just a small sampling of very famous man fighters. You can Google them to get the information direct from the dogmen themselves.

Ch. Chinaman was a man fighter. The reason Bob Fritz sent him to Vinny was quite simply that Chinaman tried to kill Bob on first meeting. You can get this info online, I got the story from Bob Fritz.

Pat Patrick considered Bolio to be one of the most dangerous dogs he'd ever held in the corner. Pat posted Bolio's story online, I heard about it from Pat. And yeah, Bolio was bred a lot.

Ricky the Rebel Jones Ch. Turtle was such a man fighter he was only taken off his cable run to breed. He was even dangerous to feed or clean. Google him and read for yourself.

Ch. Jocko would eat you alive but it was ok as old man Fletcher Chavis had a yard full of man fighters. He was fine with that as it cut down on dog thieves.

Gr. Ch. Art was selective, he only tried to attack a few people but it was an all out scratch.

Gr. Ch. Zebo was passed from yard to yard until he landed in one with no kids. He was not a great nanny dog, he really didn't like children. Come to think of there were adults he didn't really like either.

Sharon Holt of the old Pit Dog Report told a great story one evening about her husband Raymond and Bullyson. He and another man offered to transport Bullyson from one yard to another. They couldn't get him crated so he was riding free in the car. Bullyson started getting an attitude early on in the trip. Raymond, in the passenger seat, had to tickle the dog's testicles for the entire ride to keep Bullyson from attacking them. Google it for yourselves.

Okay so there were champion and grand champion pit dogs who were bred. All must have been curs because man fighters are curs right? Try ch. Bad Joe Willie, 4xW, 1xL dead game. He died in hold in approximately three hours to Crazy Hank.

As with many of the older working breeds the breed name is also a job description. Pointer, retriever, setter, hovawart and shepherd are examples. The Pit Bull Terrier or American (Pit) Bull Terrier was bred solely to do combat in a dogpit. They were never nurse's aids, nanny dogs, soldiers' rescue dogs, herding dogs, astronauts, physicists or anything other than combat dogs. I am always suspicious of those who claim to love this breed while simultaneously in such denial of what the breed is in reality. If you love something you love it for what it truly is and not for something it has never been and can never become.

i took the liberty of finding the pedigrees for these man fighters. thank you tropical storms for helping to dispel the myth of 'man-biters were culled'.

Art's registered offspring

Bolio's registered offspring

Chinaman's registered offspring

Zebo's registered offspring

Bullyson's registered offspring

Jocko's registered offspring

Turtle's offspring

Crazy Hank's offspring

Joe Willie no registered offspring

more from tropical storms

dog fighting lingo

sneak preview

Hitting the Bigtime

Hitting the Bigtime Part Two


tropical storms said...

Joe Willie was very poorly bred on the bottom side. He was bred once but they were culled, not for temperament but for lack of quality performance. I personally liked Joe, we got on well and I became quite fond of him. He did not deserve the death he was given. This coming from someone who would have been happy to hold him during euthanasia should point to the differences between dogfighters and the humane community.

tropical storms said...

I just checked out Art's offspring list and saw the "what if" breeding to Queen of Hearts. That would have been awesome as Queen of Hearts was also a well known man fighter. She even grabbed a woman spectator at pitside as she was being carried into the pit. Luckily Queen only got her coat. You can Google her too. Double Grand Champion Queen of Hearts, 10xW.

DubV said...

Awesome read, as usual ;)

I'm curious about how the pits were kept/trained.

Out of one side of their mouth's, the nutters will say that man biters were culled, then out of the other side they'll say "well no wonder these dogs were dangerous, they were forced to fight and probably beaten with cables, attention starved, fed gun powder/steroids/beagles/and kittens"

So, given your view of these dogs from "cradle to grave", what parts of their temperament/danger are attributable to nature and nurture? I'd hate to throw nutters a bone by mentioning nurture, but you now that is what they are crafting in their heads right now.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

not too surprised to hear that queen of hearts was a man biter. i see bolio four times in her 4 generation ped.

funny you should mention this particular dog and dogman cuz this photo is burned into my memory. there seems to be very very few serious dog men of color, victor aycart, alecedo hodge, and joe abraham. care to offer up any input on the topic of race?

tropical storms said...

DubV, no beatings, no starving, and NO SUCH THING AS FORCED TO FIGHT. These dogs do what they do because they have been bred to do only this. Care on a day to day basis is variable by yard but none are given the care, attention, affection of a normal person's normal dog. They are well fed by most standards and exceptionally so during a keep. They are cleaned, fed, watered daily and most use good parasite control.
Dawn, it really depends upon region and group. There are people of color of any race involved throughout the country, it's just who's got dogs. There are also a lot of Klan and White Supremacists involved as well.

orangedog said...

An ACO officer, Luis Salgado with Miami-Dade County Animal Services was quoted in a paper a few days ago:

"Usually, dogs that are used for fighting are very loving of their owner. They actually fight to please the owner."

When the nutters are in animal control positions, it's easy to see why we have a pit bull crisis.
If you put two people pleasing Goldens in a pit and tried to make them fight I don't think anything would happen. I don't think these people really think about what they're saying or else they'd realize how stupid they sound.

Packhorse said...

Check out what this guy is living next to.

Anonymous said...

re orange dog :

who gives a fuck how loving shitbulls are to their scum-sucking owners ?

does this , if its not bull , mean that society should look kindly on these dangerous dogs ?

personally, i like the idea of mutants wagging their ratty tails then proceeding to shred their own ers with glee . that i can respect .

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

thanks packhorse, i added that video to life with pit bulls.

i saw one of my old buddies from the gamedog forums left a comment blaming the man for peaking through the fence and agitating the mutants.

i am very disappointed in you brian.

Small Survivors said...

You said you were given several dogs. I wonder what that is about. Is this a common "honor" to someone who's interested in the "fancy" but who isn't fighting dogs themselves? What was the understanding? - was it understood they were for pets; they were for starting you out; did they purposefully give you pits that weren't fighting caliber in their eyes?

Were there many men who attended these fights regularly who weren't dogfighters themselves?

tropical storms said...

No Snack, the understanding was that I was just getting into the dogs. They were given to me to help me get started right with well bred pups that had a good shot at being good pit dogs with excellent bloodlines. That is the foundation of covert actions in general, you are a part of the action.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

how do you explain it when your yard doesn't grow? wouldn't that make them suspicious if after a few years you don't have a yard full of dogs and are not matching and breeding them?

tropical storms said...

That's why you start with young pups. They're not expecting to see them again for at least 18 months. The idea is to get into each group and get your job done within that time frame then move on to a new group in a different local. It was actually pretty successful in that we either got good busts, upgraded legislation or both.

Your Quiet Neighbor said...

I think that orangedog is making a very good point. Quite a few American animal control agencies are experiencing nutter-itis.

First part of the cure: Noting that the problem exists. We should start a list of animal control agencies experiencing this communicable disease.

DubV said...

The one ACO in my county was not an officer of the law, was stationed at the HSUS building, and was paid by a bid for the job submitted by the HSUS. He was likely a shelter worker before that. He didn't seem like much of a nutter, but who knows. If the pattern with his hiring is common, then it is obvious why ACOs are so often nutters. I think they should be trained similar to conservation or police officers, go through an academy and competitive hiring process, and carry firearms. That would likely remove many nutters because that sounds like hard work.

Packhorse said...

I'd love to see the black-and-white "Lab mix" that did this.

“We took pictures at the hospital, and it was the most grotesque things I’ve ever seen,” Beattie said. “There’s just a hole where a nose should be.”

orangedog said...

There is a picture of it, but now I can't remember who posted it. They said it's a pit mix, and it does look like one.

orangedog said...

Here it is:

scorched earth said...

The photo of the black and white dog came from an article from the Daily Mail and on that site the photo is labeled as a "file photo."

orangedog said...

Ah, well that means it's probably a pit and they are hiding the identity. Don't want pibble to get even more bad press.

Decatur AL livin nt to 4 pits said...

I swear I thought I checked that picture in the Daily Mail to make sure it was not a file photo - but now it says file photo!!! The link I used to do my story is the only one out of dozens that states this dog was a "PIT-LAB MIX" :

It is the abc 5 station.

PutMeInCharge4OneDay said...

They sure did a good job of culling those man biters- Not.

So I hear I have a Collie with generations of show dogs only- no herding- and yet she will herd. Is it any wonder the world is full of pit bull man biters?

My pit bull experiences last week-
1.Monday At the local equine hospital, they have a newborn baby calf. He is there because he was attacked by a pit bull shortly after being born. He died during the night.

2.Saturday- My husbands acquaintance works at a vet hospital. Its low cost shot day on Saturday. He hears screaming in the waiting room, runs out and there is a dead Chihuahua. A pit bull- with no warning-grabbed it and killed it.
The dog belonged to a child who was there with its parent and saw it killed right in front of their eyes. Hubbys acquaintance said this is the SECOND time that has happened where the pit bulls was "unprovoked and gave no warning" with him working there and he now believes "pit bulls are just wired to be like that". Previously he thought its how they were raised.

I am going to have to have hubby ask him how many times for any reason has a dog been killed in the waiting room by a pit bull. Two is two too many.

I had to take my 7.5 pound dog to the emergency hospital this weekend. Hubby told me he would not go into the waiting area until I made sure there were no pit bulls inside.

Last but not least when I arrived at my colt starters barn today to drop off a horse. The barn owner saw me she immediately said she would lock up the pit bull- I said yes please. Its a big grey beast probably 80 pounds. Its young so my guess is its not turned on yet. Not only do they have training horses there, they foal out mares. That is going to go badly one day.

Jake said...

@Putmeincharge -

Those stories hit me like a blow to the solar plexus. I'm probably going to lay awake thinking about the poor chihuahua, wishing I had been there to do something about it. And that poor baby calf, man that hurts. What a heart-breakingly short life.

What's it going to take before the reign of terror of these pit freaks is stopped? Each and every one of them insists that their pit bull needs to be treated just like any other dog, because it's all in how you raise them and they gave it nothing but love.

And when pittie turns on, they usually end up doing little more to help than the dingbat who cried and petted her pit bull for 10 minutes while it tortured a baby seal to death.

DubV said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
DubV said...

Vet office's make me nervous. I no longer allow my dog to be taken in the back room if the procedure can be done in the exam room with me present. Most vet techs and vets are at least nutter sympathizers.

Anonymous said...

Who ever said that there was no human aggressive dogs in the dog fighting biz is a fool! they're many of them more then what is on this list! They where used and bred into breeding programs because they where good pit dogs. Was is something good no FUK NO. however with pedigrees we the people who do fancy these dogs can review a pedigree and see those dogs like the ones listed in them and make that choice to take the gamble. I however don;t ever want to take such a gamble with a human aggressive bulldog ever! it is dangerous and it also hurts the breed badly.too many people out there not doing the right thing has hurt us who do love this breed. Yet we point our fingers at those who see the bad dogs and their owners and instead of directing our blame at them we point at those who speak up on the issues we face! We also point fingers at other breeds like Chuahuas and labs as being more aggressive then pit bulls. However how many Chihuahuas have mauled killed or deformed kids adults and or animals? Face it our breed can and does do more damage then those other breeds period the end. We as a community needs to stand up and point the finger at ourselves for this mess. It is so easy to blame the craves of the worlds however they are not the ones with the dogs attacking anyone or anyones pet. I do not believe in pit bull rescues! I do not believe that we should be giving uneducated emotional thinking people a powerful breed to place in such homes. The human and ethical thing is to humanly put them to sleep. These dogs do not belong in every home they are not for the faith of hearts. Theyre strong smart powerful dogs! since we have lost sight in that the problem has become a public safety issue. I am also tired of people taking these dogs off leash into public areas and causing problems and pointing fingers at the wrong people

Anonymous said...

You mean 8x winner

Anonymous said...

If they were properly socialised with dogs then most likely they'd play together.

Put 2 unsocialised dogs of the same sex together and most probably they will fight, regardless of breed.

The reason would probably be out of fear aggression rather than instinctive killer aggression but you'd have a fight nonetheless.

Of course, as soon as one of them submitted to the other the fight would stop. They also wouldn't do much damage to each other as most dog breeds bite and release, rather than hanging on and chewing.

Anonymous said...

From what little I've seen and heard of dogfighters yards, I gather that the dogs are kept either in cages or on chains to keep them separate from each other and keep humans safe from the dogs.

They aren't given much human attention and their lives aren't really enriched with play or a job other than to fight dogs.

I think that growing up like this does plenty of psychological damage without having to beat or starve them.

It's similar to a shelter environment - where studies have shown that prolonged shelter stays do psychologically harm dogs, mainly causing depression and neurotic or compulsive behaviours due to lack of adequate mental, physical and social stimulation.

Anonymous said...

Anyone with a border collie
Understands how easily instincts override training.

If its true for the most obedient, most intelligent breed then it MUST be true for pit bulls (which are only of average intelligence / working obedience).

i.e. you have no chance of stopping a pit from attacking using commands only once it's instincts have kicked in - no matter how well trained it is.

KaD said...

Ironically, now that dog fighting is outlawed (supposedly for humane reasons) the number of animals harmed by put bulls every year is at an all time high, which begs the question: what is the point of outlawing dog fighting while allowing these fighting dogs to proliferate?

So we now have this oversupply of "working dogs" whose "work" is now considered a crime, so long as it occurs in a formal setting. If 2 willing pit bulls are allowed to square off in the ring, it's a crime. But if a pit bull "goes to work" on an unwilling animal, tearing the victim apart, it's not a crime. How is that in any way humane?

In closing, let me make one final point: All of the long time pit bull breeders/dog fighters I've ever heard from have been unanimous in the statements that they never, ever had to force a pit bull to fight. The only dogs "forced to fight" are the tens of thousands of normal dogs every year, dogs like poor Garth or poor little Soup, who are forced to fight for their lives in hopeless, one sided battles with "out of work" pit bulls, and most of whom die of their injuries.

That is exactly what one would expect to happen when you outlaw "dog fighting", while continuing to breed fighting dogs.

Anonymous said...

This is amazing. Thank you for posting all of these articles. Very important for people trying to get BSL passed and dog fighting made a felony.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

dog fighting is a felony in all states. they need to make attending, betting, hosting dog fighting a felony in all states. and they need to make attacks on other animals by dogs bred for fighting a felony in all states.

Anonymous said...

Best Friends is engaging in dog fighting at home again and making up the most ridiculous stories in the world to hide it.

Even all those expert trainers can't control the fighting dog. They are letting them kill the normal sanctuary dogs.

It's deja vu all over all

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

do you know if it is affiliated with the best friends in utah?

Anonymous said...

It is Ledy Van Kavage's Best Friends Animal Society in Utah.

It seems like bloggers used to be covering BFs crimes. Now it seems like everyone has given up.