Thursday, October 31, 2013

Pit bull and children photos can't prove pit bulls are safe or owners are sane

The twelve year olds over at HuffPo have decided to leave their dangerous propaganda piece up and have added more photos despite having inadvertently proven how dangerous and misleading these photos of children and pit bulls are.  The kids at HuffPo accidentally included a photo of a child hugging a pit bull that later killed that child.  They don't seem to understand or care that they're encouraging dangerous behavior or that they've proven that capturing one moment in time proves exactly nothing.

The flub also has failed to deter parents from submitting for publication absolutely horrific photos of children riding, lying on, hugging on, or being posed with pit bulls.  They don't seem to notice that most of those pit bulls are not only not engaged with the child, but they look annoyed or distressed by the positions these parents are putting their children and their pit in.

So, after the fun we had with the "One of These Things is Not Like the Others" game, I'm proposing a new guessing game called "Which Pit is a HuffPo Submission and Which Pit Killed a Human Being."

We'll start with an easy one:

This is Nephi Selu on the right, of course, and this is the photo the HuffPo kids accidently included in their slideshow.  He was killed this year by his pit bull named Kava.  This is how his family described their relationship: "All of this is definitely a shock because it's almost like two best friends that turned on... like one best friend turned on the other."

Here is another pair of photos - which is a HuffPo photo submission and which is a  pit bull that killed the crawler pictured with it?
The boy on the left is Tyzhel McWilliams.  He was killed by the dog pictured with him, Zulu.  His mother judged Zulu as an individual and found him to be a nurturer and she "expressed disbelief that the pit bull that seemed to watch over the infant like a protective parent would ultimately end the baby’s life."

In this pair of photos, which is a HuffPo submission and which of these tolerant, smiling white pit bulls later killed a human being?
The pit bull in the photo on the right jumped its fence to kill an elderly neighbor  in his own yard.

Which is a HuffPo submission and which is a pit bull that killed a human being?
The pit bulls on the right killed a 10 year old boy after this photo was taken.  The boy, Justin Clinton, had known and played with the pit bulls since they were tiny puppies.

Which is a HuffPo submission and which pit bull later killed the child leading it on a loose leash?
The boy on the right is Nicholas Faibish who was killed by, Rex,  the pit bull on the right.

How about this pair?  Which is a HuffPo fur mommy submission and which child was killed by the pit bull snuggling with the child on the couch?
This one is a bit of a trick because the boy on the right is also Nicholas Faibish.  These photos of Nick look just like the HuffPo fur mommies' photos.  What the fur mommies are trying to show is that these photos prove that pit bulls can be part of normal families.  And it is haunting to know just how dangerously insane Maureen Faibish, Nick's mom, is and look at these photos of what looks like a normal kid with his not-aggressive-at-the-moment pit bull.  If you have the time, you can read her side of the story of Nick's death HERE.  In her side of the story, she wants us to know that mostly, this was a "freak accident," that was certainly not her fault and no one should conclude from this that pit bulls are unsafe and no one should get rid of their pit bull just because her son was brutally killed by hers.

But, a freak accident does not exclude laying blame on her own dead son for escaping the basement she'd locked him in with a shovel wedged against the door.  And if there's any more blame to go around, it should rest on her female pit bull in heat who was not allowing her male pit bull to mate which made Max, the intact male, aggressive.  These photographs don't suggest any of the dangerous insanity this boy lived with until he was killed by it.

As commenters on the first HuffPo story noticed, some of these HuffPo fur mommies could not hide their crazy either. "Our neighbor's new pit meeting our new baby."

Irnwlsn takes the cake, though:
"When we adopted Bowser in 2010, the shelter classified him as "Not adoptable to families with children."  We called BS and took a chance, and a year later when Bowser became a big brother, we proved them wrong."

Just so we're clear: the chance they took was with their child's well being and life and the reason they took chances with their child's life was to prove a point about a pit bull.  Fucking turds.

Helpful Advice:
Dogs don't like hugs

Children need to know that getting face-to-face with any dog can be extremely dangerous. In the dog’s world this can be considered confrontational. A child might do this many times to the family dog with no consequence; however, this is not a 100% predictor of future behavior. It concerns me that I frequently see pet industry advertising showing children face-to-face with dogs.

Dogs don't like hugs and kisses

The Not-So-Hidden dangers of Taking Photos of Pets and Kids  "And stop encouraging dangerous behavior by recording it and sharing it on Facebook just because you think it’s cute."

Why Supervising Dogs and Kids Doesn't Work (answer: because people are too insensitive to their dogs and too stupid to read up on dog behavior)

Why the Huffington Post is Shit!


S.K.Y. said...

Dawn, another excellent post, and one that I'll be sending people to for years. The side-by-side comparison photos really make it clear that kid n' pit photos prove nothing.

april 29 said...

GREAT post Snack! Thank you.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

dogs don't like hugs and kisses but they don't care if kids pull their tails.

i am so happy that people are not allowing the huffo to get away with this blatant propagandizing. i hope they are discredited over this. arianna huffington needs to clean up her paper. i had to stop reading the huffpo a few years ago. they too kumbaya for me.

the huffington joke

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

yes, spectacular post snack sized dog!

Small Survivors said...

Thank you april 29, and SKY, yes I put this post up. And, I'll take your compliments. Thank you!

Small Survivors said...

geez - old window again - thank dawn!

Anonymous said...

what gets me is the photos entitled " pitbull attacks toddler" or " pitbull makes mincemeat out of tiny dog " ...then you get to see the ugly dogs just playing . this is like laughing at and denying the reality of pitbull attacks . i wonder what they think when their stupid house of cards comes falling down .

orangedog said...

Good one snack. I hope their pits never go "pit bull" and kill a child, but if they do here is the evidence that it's not a "freak accident". These assholes need serious jail time when their pibbles go on a mauling spree.

Miss Margo said...

I am by no means an expert in dog body language, but one thing that strikes me about almost all of these photos is that the dog looks unhappy or is turning AWAY from the child. The dog looks like it's enduring the touch, rather than embracing it.

Anonymous said...

Love it, snack sized dog!

Anonymous said...

I read some of the comments over there, as well as looked at some of the pictures. One person was educating us that the "pit bull" is not a breed. Then how can Huffpoop have a segment in which pit bull owners are asked to post pictures of their pit bulls? Perplexing!

I couldn't make it to picture 61. Seeing tiny, helpless babies photographed with monsters is enough to fill my Halloween with enough scares to last me until Thanksgiving.

Packhorse said...

Ooh boy, here comes another one:

‘Puppycide: The Documentary’ looks to Kickstarter for Support

A vicious epidemic of puppycide is spreading across the nation as countless dogs are killed by the very protectors of our communities, the law enforcement.

Small Survivors said...

They have removed the photo of of Nephi. I think the reason dogs are so integrated into society is because caring, observant and responsible people who make an attempt CAN read dogs without the need of an expert to interpret. That's why dogs have been in society with virtually no regulation for owners. You don't need special training or testing to be a competent dog owner.

We need experts to write the books and articles that responsible and conscientious people seek to read to improve their ability to care for dog and make sure they're not making a dangerous boneheaded mistake.

Small Survivors said...

Packhorse, it is just a HUGE coincidence that one of the big promoters of this problem of police shooting dogs is one of the leading pit bull advocates - Ledy Vankavage - also a huge coincidence that pit bulls are shot far more than other kinds of dogs.

Anonymous said...

I think calling it puppycide is ridiculous. I didn't see one puppy get shot. How hard are they pulling on heartstrings?

tropical storms said...

I've been around a few really dangerous man fighters and even the worst of them are not dangerous all the time. Those I knew I got on with well as even the most dangerous man fighters try to kill everyone they meet. This is what makes them most dangerous, they're fine with most people most of the time. How a dog acts toward one person doesn't extrapolate to others. The behavior of a bulldog to a child at one moment tells you absolutely nothing about future behavior to that child or children in general.
Ch. Chinaman as an example hated Bob Fritz on first sight but fell in love with Vince Romeo the same way. With regard to children never trust a bulldog not to attack no matter how tolerant the dog has been on other occasions. It only takes one split second for total disaster from a bulldog bite.

tropical storms said...

Should read "even the most dangerous man fighters DON'T try to kill everyone ..."

S.K.Y. said...

Sorry, Snack...

Kudos go to you!

Anonymous said...

i see the gerber baby has the dubious honor of being bait baby to all these nice family dawgs . i guess no one wants to see a reminder of what turned out to be their pitbull reality .

Small Survivors said...

Oh that puppycide is just BS. Heartstrings.

Thank you TS for your insights. If pit bulls were attacking all the time everyone would get it.

No problem SKY!

The gerber baby is a convention that Dawn started and I like it.

Branwyne Finch said...

Tropical storms, you nailed it. Sternberg makes this point in her book...that a dangerous dog can be perfectly fine 95% of the time. I think the general public has this idea that if a dog isn't constantly lunging and growling and trying to attack everyone it sees, it can't be dangerous.

It reminds me of the way schools used to teach "stranger danger" to kids, admonishing them "not to talk to strangers". What they found was that most children were molested by a person they knew...relative, neighbor, etc. They also found that children thought a dangerous person was a scary looking person, and that a pleasant, smiling, soft spoken man, who just happened to have lost his puppy and needed help from a small child finding it, could not possibly mean them harm.

So educating children about being safe from sexual predators had to shift from the false perception of what constitutes a stranger, to what behaviors an adult might display that could put a child at risk. We need a similar shift in thinking when teaching dog safety.

Adults can no longer be trusted to keep children safe from dangerous dogs. We need to educate children that they should simply avoid close physical contact with dogs they don't know, and let them know that just because an owner thinks their dog is nice, doesn't mean it is. We also need to ignore the pc rantings of humaniacs and teach kids to avoid certain phenotypes.....if a dog looks like a bully breed, they should not only avoid close physical contact, they should stay as far away as possible.

Things have changed, the bar has been set so low for what constitutes "normal" dog behavior today, that living with dogs has become a public health issue. It's really sad to me, because I grew up at a time when children could safely roam unsupervised with dogs, and develop friendships with neighborhood dogs...playing with them, or just hanging out with them. I don't think we will ever again see a time when kids can grow up safely interacting with and loving dogs the way our generation did.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

"Tropical storms, you nailed it. Sternberg makes this point in her book...that a dangerous dog can be perfectly fine 95% of the time. I think the general public has this idea that if a dog isn't constantly lunging and growling and trying to attack everyone it sees, it can't be dangerous."

i get the impression when the simple minded pit nutters see a photo of a kid and pit bull in a tutu, they think that split second is the entire reality of that dog's life and nothing outside of that captured split second exists.

i've read too many accounts of AC describing a pit bull as friendly in the moments right after their rampage.

Anonymous said...

That's the thing, AC can't/doesn't/won't make a "Dangerous Dog" decision if the dog is wagging it's tail at them, right?

Makes me wonder, again, what would have happened if Ted Bundy had gone for a "Dangerous Human" assessment before sentencing. All reports are that the man was very pleasant to be around, for the most part.

Hell, even Hitler wasn't killing people ALL of the time.

DubV said...

"It reminds me of the way schools used to teach "stranger danger" to kids, admonishing them "not to talk to strangers". What they found was that most children were molested by a person they knew...relative, neighbor, etc. They also found that children thought a dangerous person was a scary looking person, and that a pleasant, smiling, soft spoken man, who just happened to have lost his puppy and needed help from a small child finding it, could not possibly mean them harm."

I agree with Branwyne's above statement in that it is incorrect for parents to think that people known to them are not dangerous and for kids to believe that the people that they should fear and those that look fearful are a totally overlapping set.

However, there is a subtle mathematical/logical trick embedded in how statistics of this sort are reported. This applies to most anything like this.

What is reported above gets at the following question:

given that a child has been abused, what is the probability that it was a stranger?

the question most useful for decision making, and what most people would like to know is

given that your child is around a stranger what is the probability that they will be abused? further, how does this probability compare to the probability of abuse given your child is around a family member or someone known to them?

It is likely much safer for a child to be around family and friends than a random stranger. But it so happens that, by definition, they are around family/friends more often than strangers.

for instance, more people are killed by mosquitoes than bears, yet I'd rather babysit my friend's mosquito. Also, more car wrecks occur near ones home than areas farther away.

I'm not accusing Bran of any malfeasance, but it is important to be aware of maybe the most common way that statistics are misused.

There is a way to move from probability of A given B to probability of B given A, it just requires some other knowledge to do it.

TreeC said...

Branwyne your post is filled with such wisdom that i had to comment.

Juxtaposing the pit bull issue with the "stranger danger" issue really hits home.


If it doesnt hit home with nutters that wouldnt surprise me.

DAMN! I Wish i were a nutter on the verge of learning....then no intelligence wasted.


TreeC said...

DubV I have lots of respect for you but statistics aside, i was sexually abused by two different men in my youth and BOTH were family members. Strangers exposed themselves to me and my friends while they asked for directions but we'd just laugh...the real abuse occured with those I trusted most. ADULTS
Those i KNEW would never harm me based on all their behavior from the time I was eight months old.


Branwyne Finch said...

LOL, Dubv, I understand completely what you are saying. It's like saying zero people have been killed by bears in Massachusetts for the past 100 years, that must mean bears are safe to be around.

I was trying to explain the differences I have personally seen in how we educate young children with regard to keeping themselves safe from sexual predators. Health curriculums have undergone a major change in that regard. But we still are not educating kids about how to be safe around dangerous dogs, because the model we are basing it on is probably 50 years old. Telling a five year old to "be a tree", and to not run and scream, is assuming that the major threat to children from dogs comes from half feral strays. That may have been the case 50 years ago, but today the main threat to children comes from pet dogs owned by family, friends and neighbors.

I don't think it is possible to teach small children to recognize the subtle behaviors dogs may give to show they are not comfortable with an interaction, hell most adults don't recognize them. Children are not developmentally capable of accomplishing this.

But they can understand simple instructions that, just because their family lab loves hugs and kisses, doesn't mean other dogs do, and that they should never hug a dog or put their face up in a dogs face EVER. We can also show them that certain types of dogs are more of a risk than others, and they should keep a wide distance from any dog that looks like a bully breed.

Unfortunately, we have pit bull advocates bringing pit bulls into schools and libraries, and every damn pit bull rescue, or article on pit bull rescue, shows people sticking their faces into the face of a pit bull. The message to small children is that "this is how to behave around a strange dog, and especially around a strange dog that looks like a pit bull".

It's criminally irresponsible, yet I don't know how to change it.

Miss Margo said...

TreeC, I just wanted to say that I HATE that selfish abusive fucktards did that to you, and it's not right and it's not fair!

That is all.



Miss Margo said...

P.S. Raccoons can be a pain in the ass, but gosh, they are cute!

They are very weird-looking, though. Do they have any animal relatives? Must google...

And yeah, HuffPo sucks now. I remember when they used to have good Indy journalism...around 2008 and prior? Now, it is one step away from Yahoo! news or some shit on AOL.

Branwyne Finch said...

Thank you, Tree C, and I echo Miss Margo's words...I am so sorry that happened to you.

The HuffPo slide show of kids-as-props for pit bull promotion left me feeling physically ill. I can only hope that some concerned family members can take screen shots and use them in custody fights or at least to report the parents for child endangerment. Something tells me that parents whose judgment is this impaired are probably neglecting or abusing their children in other ways, also.

Packhorse said...

Blogger's dog is attacked at off - leash park...

Anonymous said...

Thanks for posting that link, Packhorse. I've read quite a lot of great pit bull commentary at Urban Grounds but hadn't seen that.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

thanks, i added that blog to the list on the side. i hadn't heard of it before.

DubV said...

I'm sorry for what happened to you, TreeC. Please know I was coming down off a math binge related to some of my work, and meant no insensitivity.

TreeC said...

Miss Margo you are such a sweet person! yeah sex abuseand religion seem to come part and parcel (if i used the term correctly lol) and i had the joy of both haha

Anyway back to pitbulls...

TreeC said...

If the raccoon comment is regarding my pic i will say they are pesty but i find them adorable and theres a cute story behind that pic i took. As for relatives Cat? ill have to google that too

TreeC said...

I didnt get the feeling you were being insensitive at all Dub. I was just putting my two cents in :) but thanks!

TreeC said...

Math binge...hahaha! Cracks me up! I love this blog. If pitbulls disappeared off the planet tomorrow i'd still come here just to read what you guys had to say on any subject.

TreeC said...

Couldnt find much beside this. They seem to be in a class all their own although pandas are mentioned in almost everything i found. True to their little bandit faces, they seem to be a mystery.
Maybe you'll find something more.

S.K.Y. said...

Man, I felt like an African American at a Klan rally today!

I was invited to a large annual "dog fair" today to participate in a bunch of demos (agility, obedience, rally freestyle, and tricks) with my 8 lb. Papillon. As always, I had pepper spray and a break stick in my purse by ring-side.

No attacks, but boy, did I ever have some run-ins with nutters!

Before going in for our first demo, I saw a woman with a big Rottie standing by the ring entrance and chatting... not paying attention to her dog. I politely asked her to be sure to keep a good hold on her dog, and mentioned that large dogs had twice attacked my dogs during demos. Though she had the ONLY large breed standing in the area, she took this as a targeted attack on her Rottie breed, and got into a heated argument with me.

Since she brought up Rotties, I mentioned Rottie DBRF stats and told her that both my Pap and I had been attacked in the past 18 months by two different Rotties.

She responded by saying "well, you must be an awful person if Rotties hate you so much," and added that her Rottie was a "therapy dog," that "Chihuahuas were more dangerous" and "Labs kill more people that pits and Rotties combined."

Club members broke us up and pulled me over to stand beside a nice guy with a Viszla, whom I've seen at agility trials. I mumbled something about the woman making up fake stats denying the dangers of pits and Rotties, and then he said HE used to have pits and loved the breed. Then HE got in an argument with me, saying pits were misunderstood nanny dogs that "sadly ended up in the homes of bad people who trained them to attack." I asked if Vizslas only followed THEIR instincts (pointing) because they were in "bad" homes... and why pits would have to be in a "bad" home to follow 200 years of breeding for killing. (to be continued...)

S.K.Y. said...

(cont. from previous post)

I then stalked off to check out the booths, and the first one I hit was the Staffordshire Bull Terrier booth, with a banner proclaiming: "Staffie Bulls--the Nanny Dog!" Next to them was the pit bull rescue booth, where they invited kids at the dog fair to come up and hug their current adoptable adult pit bulls of unknown backgrounds. To complete the mauler lineup, there were Bullmastiffs, American Bulldogs, and Olde English Bulldogs. And every booth proclaimed that these breeds were perfect family pets and perfect with kids.

After doing a bunch of successful demos, I was on my way out when I stopped by the local therapy dog booth. This is a well-funded Pet Partners affiliate that is well-respected in the area and has over 100 volunteers doing weekly visits at large hospitals. I used to be a therapy dog volunteer, licensed evaluator and team coordinator, and had been thinking of getting back into it with Dash. So I asked for some brochures so I could sign up my Pap.

After we'd been chatting about therapy dog stuff for 5 minutes, the head lady mentioned that one thing they did was "dog bite prevention" in schools. I told them I used to go to schools all over WI & MO teaching this, but that I had totally changed course now. Instead of telling kids to "ask before petting dogs," (normally the main point taught in dog bite prevention classes), I said that the best way to prevent maulings and deaths would be to teach kids and their parents to recognize pit bulls and other grippers and to stay away from them and not visit people who have them.

The woman I was talking to was a well-dressed, soft-spoken professional type in her 50's, so I was shocked to hear her say: "What you're saying is absurd! My therapy dog is a pit bull, and that's the dog we use as our demo dog in the dog bite prevention classes. The kids learn to ask before petting, then they all go hug, kiss and pet my pit bull.

I accused her of risking kids' safety to make a political point and asked why she didn't instead buy one of the 300+ breeds that HAVEN'T killed any kids vs. the breed responsible for virtually all DBRFs. I quoted pit DBRFs, hospital admission and mauling stats. She then smiled and said: "we haven't been officially introduced. My name is ___. What's your name?" When I told her, she wrote it down, obviously black-listing me from joining their therapy dog group.

I did have great non-pit related chats with a dozen other people, but I'm quickly realizing that virtually 100% of people at shows and festivals is pro-pit, even if they do not have a pit, or have it with them. In fact, the only people I know who are NOT pro-pit are you guys here. Thanks for providing sanity!

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

sorry SKY. i've distanced myself from dog people of all kinds. i think the majority of dog people are unbalanced.

"She then smiled and said: "we haven't been officially introduced. My name is ___. What's your name?" When I told her, she wrote it down, obviously black-listing me from joining their therapy dog group."

should have pulled an old nutter trick, give her a fake name.

"but I'm quickly realizing that virtually 100% of people at shows and festivals is pro-pit, even if they do not have a pit, or have it with them."

i suspect there are some who are just too afraid to speak their mind. most people are sheeple. thanks for bucking the trend.

tropical storms said...

S.K.Y. your day well and truly sucked, my sympathy for that. Stick with your club and sanctioned competitions and avoid the others like pestilential plagues they are. There are way to many wack jobs hanging off the back end of a lead these days.

Packhorse said...

I've noticed the deteriorating mental state among dog owners as well. Which is a terrible shame, because my dog adores meeting other dogs. I like to take him to dog events to get that experience that he enjoys so much. We still don't have a huge number of pits in my mostly-rural area, but they are slowly creeping in.

SKY, I would like to know what you carry as a breakstick. I am going to start carrying one too, any time I have my dog out anywhere. I already carry mace at all times.

tropical storms said...

If you're going to carry a break stick make sure you know how to use it safely. Some of the older dogfighting sites/mags go into detail on this try to find them before you get your stick. It's easy to lose a finger breaking off a bulldog even when done right. There are sites on line that sell them and should also have the information.

Branwyne Finch said...

I simply avoid all dog related "festivals" and other events where crazy dog people congregate, like the local dog park. The crazy dog people, or should I say "pet parents", are exponentially worse than the worst over-zealous playground mommies who consider their children geniuses, and probably the second coming of Christ. Crazy dog people have done more than anthropomorphize dogs.....there isn't even a word for what they have done, they have elevated dogs to an almost Godlike status. Dogs to them are not just furry people, they are furry little deities, they are better, more noble, more loving, more perfect than people; so if their precious dog does something bad, like bites a person, that person must have deserved it.

Alexandra said...

Branwyne, you'd love Twenge and Campbell's 'The Narcissism Epidemic; Living in the Age of Entitlement'.

Anonymous said...

I blame Barbara Woodhouse, remember her? "Walkies!"?

I think she was the first one to really gain attention with the line "no bad dogs".

I understand the motivation, she was famous in the era I came from where rolled up newspapers and "rubbing their nose in it" were common training techniques. Probably not the best for the dog.

Anyway, what appears to have happened in the average dog owner's mind, is that No Bad Dogs implies Dogs can do No Wrong.

Dogs can do No Wrong, means that if the dog does something that appears wrong, than it MUST be the humans' fault.

TADA! Dogs suddenly are a vengeful deities who must be placated, appeased and sacrificed to so that nothing bad happens to their human subjects.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

regarding the break stick conversation, there is a question you need to have answered before even thinking about breaking off a pit bull (by any means) what are you going to do with it once it is no longer locked on to your dog?

branwyne, i love your comments. furry little deities indeed.

ditto on sputnick's recommendation. it helps explain a lot of our social problems.

here is another book by twenge, generation me.

Anonymous said...

I absolutely agree. 20 years ago, as a groomer, people spoke with disparaging affection about their dogs, as though they were loved but embarrassing friends. These days, not only is much time taken up with kissing, fervent hugging, apologies about the upcoming ordeal, slowly backing away while saying, " Mommy will be back soon... yes, YES I WILL, now you be GOOD for the (choose one) "nice" "mean" "scary" "funny" or "nice, old" lady" before hovering at the door and making prolonged kissy noises.
That's if I'm lucky. Otherwise I have to spend nearly two hours hearing about what a paragon Viceroy or Victoria or Silver Heaven
or Babetta is. The ideal future career of Therapy dog is often a one-sided topic of discussion, once as I was muzzling an Airedale who had made a sincere effort to nail front of his oblivious owner. Interestingly, today's glorified dogs are much more prone to bite than at the start of my vocation. It makes me long for the day when the most hovering involvement groomers got was "Just don't make him look like Liberace!"

Anonymous said...

So, I'm not alone at cringing about the whole "Pet Parent" thing?

Branwyne Finch said...

Thank you, Sputnik, I will add that to my list!

I have shared this already with dawn, but I recently helped a family member look for a dog at a shelter. We went to a large, clean, beautiful, state of the art shelter which transports dogs in from kill shelters in the South and elsewhere. We went on a Monday, after a busy weekend of adoptions, and saw what dogs were left. Our criteria was an adult dog, not too small or too large, that can get along with a cat, that is sociable and friendly with people, kids and other dogs, and is not too hyper. Oh, and no pits.

We probably saw about 25 dogs and puppies, and out of all of them, only three would even come up to the kennel door to greet us. There was one lovely, highly social puppy who was dying to be petted and held, but he was the only really friendly dog there. The one adult dog we asked to take out and look at, because she came over to the kennel and wagged her tail, we found out had bitten a volunteer the day before.

I did not feel that many of the dogs were simply a little timid or overly frightened from their ordeal....they had large, clean spacious kennels, soft beds, plenty of toys, and were taken out several times a day for walks and exercise in a large fenced area. These dogs just seemed completely uninterested in making friends with people, they offered no social gestures at all.
Many of the large adult dogs gave us hard stares from the back of their kennels. Some of the older puppies may have been half feral.

What I did learn was that this large, well funded, cutting edge shelter does NO temperament testing. The adoption counselor told me that when I asked. So that 70 pound dog that looked at me with dull eyes from the back of the kennel may very well guard food and toys, and could possibly take a kids face off if they got too close while he was eating something....but the nice ladies at the shelter just want him to find a happy forever home! And how can they do that if they have to tell families that he may be dangerous? After all, maybe he was abused, poor thing!

And I am sure his new owners will take him out to the dog park and the dog festival, and tell people how they "rescued" him and that they "think he was abused", and that was probably why he attacked another dog that day, or lunged at a passing child.

I am pretty sick of the crazy dog people by now, if you can tell.

orangedog said...

For the pit problem I blame Cesar Millan and Michael Vick (for getting caught). Dog fighters are scum, but let's face it, if it had been some nobody from Georgia who got caught, the pit problem would have remained underground. Best Friends, Cesar Millan, etc... found a way to cash in on it, and now pits have been "mainstreamed" into the massive problem we have today.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

oh yes, forgot all about WALKIES!
i think you might be right anon, woodhouse might be ground zero for this nonsense.

yep, the pet parent, fur mommy, fur daddy, fur kids thing is nauseating. it might be even worse than pibbles or pitties.

i despise cesar milan in practice. in theory, i agree with him. a big problem is too many people are only providing affection to dogs, when dogs also need exercise and discipline. some dogs are obnoxious little tyrants in control of the household. it seems to me that cesar sees the need to correct that but he is too heavy handed. i can't stand to see him touching a dog or looking at dog or even in a dog's space. he's an asshole.

what i discovered going to dog parks is that whatever character traits people have will probably be enhanced by and reflected in the dog. i remember seeing a gordon setter once and only once in my lifetime. i commented to the idiot, "is that a gordon setter? i don't think i have ever seen one in the flesh before." his arrogant and condescending response without missing a step or looking in my direction: "that's the idea." WTF?

yeah, i really hate dog people sometimes. they get them for the wrong reasons. the dogs end up paying the ultimate price, even trophy pieces.

Anonymous said...

Next time, Dawn..
"Is that a Pariah Dog? Is it true they thrive on garbage and monkey droppings?"

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

this new blog seems to be somewhat of a secret and for the life of me, i don't know why!

check it out

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

Next time, Dawn..
"Is that a Pariah Dog? Is it true they thrive on garbage and monkey droppings?"

haha. good one.

my screen seems to be slow on the redraw for comments.

Miss Margo said...

"what i discovered going to dog parks is that whatever character traits people have will probably be enhanced by and reflected in the dog. i remember seeing a gordon setter once and only once in my lifetime. i commented to the idiot, "is that a gordon setter? i don't think i have ever seen one in the flesh before." his arrogant and condescending response without missing a step or looking in my direction: "that's the idea." WTF?"

What a douchenozzle...! I understand that we all have bad days where we just don't want to talk to anyone, but I hate it when people are rude and dismissive like this guy. Basically he's saying "I got a rare breed so that I can impress people and call attention to myself...then, when I get the attention I knew this dog would attract, I GET TO INSULT THE PERSON PAYING ATTENTION!" see how that works?

Packhorse said...

It seems to me that as goes parenting, so goes dog keeping...nowadays we have extreme helicopter parents spouting New Age hoo-ha about Indigo children and Crystal children, opposing the use of diapers and all kinds of nutty stuff.

All of this eventually filters into the pet keeping world.

Anonymous said...

True...I was recently informed
by a client that my poodle was "an Old Soul" this as he was gnawing a stolen raw sweet potato on top of my clean laundry. Good to know, I often consult with him on matters of Old Soulery. Sometimes he seems a little immature.

Anonymous said...

And, Dawn, thanks for pointing out Why I Hate Your Dog--I hadn't been aware of it
and it's VERY entertaining and soul-satisfying! We've all suffered at the hands of uncontrolled dogs! My mom was a prisoner in the small town where I was born. My Dad was the lighthouse keeper (Lake Superior Mn), and whenever my Mom tried to take my 8mo old brother out in the stroller, loose and threatening dogs would intercept her within minutes.
She still recalls that with bitterness.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

"True...I was recently informed by a client that my poodle was "an Old Soul" this as he was gnawing a stolen raw sweet potato on top of my clean laundry. Good to know, I often consult with him on matters of Old Soulery. Sometimes he seems a little immature."

is that you sadfalada? :-)

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

anon 2:09, pay attention to the blog roll on the right. good stuff in there.

Anonymous said...

Yep! Hello! Google won't let me sign in, it flips around like Linda Blair's head!

Anonymous said...

this leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth and pain in my ears.

S.K.Y. said...

Wow, you're not kidding. That song was REALLY bad, and the pittie illustrations were even worse.

And in my ill-spent youth, I put on hardcore punk rock shows and even hired "musicians" of this type to come over from the UK and assault the ears of me and my friends. (Okay, I was also a chemistry major at a prestigious liberal arts college, a wildlife rehabber and Red Cross instructor... with a mohawk). :-)

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

15 seconds of that noise was too much for me. nice to see nutters taste in music matches their taste in dogs.

but based on the comments, the propaganda music video is succeeding
will sandvold 2 days ago
This song has made me want to adopt a Pitbull SO BAD! The dog in this video is adorable :)

YAY! increasing the demand for dogs that no one wants! good job nutters!

LOL. looks like a good candidate for jane's i am the majority campaign.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

the photos just keep reinforcing the nutter stereotype

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

double pit nutter salute

jane is probably beaming

Anonymous said...

??? Did the Bushface on the Naugahyde fainting couch steal his jail duds? Seems strange...and why is his birding finger in the horizontal position? Is he expecting an actual bird?

Anonymous said...

Would that I had more than two Wierdly Boneless Middle Phalanges to offer the world. Maybe I could be of benefit to Maybelline...

Anonymous said...

The SAME THING happened to me as in the video--except they removed all my black velvet paintings, generic poptarts, love notes to Sid Vicious, and bottles of Lady Grecian formula.

Miss Margo said...

SadFalada (if that's you...if it's not, you need to post here more often, funny person)...get YoSelf a google account! I don't want to miss your posts.

The Pit Nutter Salute is really something else. Why anyone outside of High School would willingly photograph themselves flipping the bird is beyond me. Much less PUT IT ONLINE!!!

I read the news and half the time I'm a misanthropist myself, but REALLY? This isn't a demonstration of angst but hostile narcissism.

If you want something to cleanse your polluted eyeballs, here is a great photo of a Pomeranian/Aussie Shepard mix...SOOPER CUTE!

S.K.Y. said...

Miss Margo, that pup is so cute. Between performances at the Dog Fair yesterday, I saw the cutest puppy there. One of the employees at the kennel I use had gone to VA to get a "toy Australian Shepherd" after falling in love with three different ones who board at her kennel. (I've been involved in dogs since 1977, and never heard of 'em!) She claimed it was produced by breeding small mini Aussies together, but I'm wondering now if it's really an Aussie/Pom cross. Same merle coloration too. Whatever it was, it was super cuddly and sweet tempered.

Packhorse said...

Guys, you beat me. My spouse is actually a fan of this band and I thought I had found a fine nutter gem to share with you. Well, imagine picking up a brochure from AFF or Badrap and yodeling/screaming the text. Also there's pit pimping to kids with the singer's own child in a pit 's face and a nutter fever dream sequence in which an armed SWAT team confiscated pittie. The best is the final line of the song, which is unintentionally funny : "If pit bulls are weapons, you can pry mine from my cold dead hands! "

Protest the hero is a fairly successful group, I would suggest watching it with the sound down if you can't take it for the pit SWAT team alone.

orangedog said...

These people are so full of shit. Like tax payers will pay for armed SWAT teams to wrest pibbles from their wailing owners. I'd rather pay for spay/neuter clinics to wipe them out. Nice scare tactics though.

S.K.Y. said...

Packhorse, I agree that the video is a gem of nutterdom! Watching with the sound down or off is the best way to see it. :-)

Packhorse said...

You have to admit, it must take some talent to wrestle lyrics about the ATTS test into a metal song, LOL!

I busted out laughing when I saw the SWAT team. Did you notice at the end, they take the couple's pit AND children away by gunpoint?!

How many pits have been pried off their owners' cold, dead bodies so far this year?

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

i did manage to watch it without sound. and yes i agree, the swat team is awesome. i missed the ATTS. the imagery is almost seizure induing at times.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

"How many pits have been pried off their owners' cold, dead bodies so far this year?"

my thoughts as well. and they say we get hysterical. lol!

Anonymous said...

They came for me, yeah, yeah they did; Pit bulls, they were all rounded up
And the world was full of criminals disgruntled
And kitties and doggies go unbloodied or crumpled
walking unafraid like they got the right
to celebrate the SWAT team's
black-suited night
They overcame shaking and terror-filled fright
And packing heat, they came, and shlepping meat, departed
undeterred by protest, or language sense, discarded
the hope is that the squalid digs be not too close regarded.

They'll come for YOUR dog next, the cognescenti warn
and, filled with indignant dread, my poodle was cleverly shorn
to resemble a beneficial medicinal plant; no, not THAT
kind of plant, an Artistic Grant
gave me kudos and coins for
Dyes, Colorants, Disguises
Certificates of Good-Doggery,
and Edible Prizes
Asserting my Poodle Embossed and Embarrassed
unrecognizable, hair frizzled and fried and gardened and terraced
And we snarl and growl to decide who is Fairest.

To no avail, Alack, alas, woe: we the Haters betrayed
and the curtain fell most tragically, our happy scene unplayed
I heard the door crash, I saw the floodlights flood
and I sat up in my virginal bed
and to poodle, I said, Bud..
I love you cause your loyal and you always have good hair
but Ive sometimes hoped a well-equipped man accost me in my lair
so make like a shrub in a little
nightgown, let no one be aware!

But, no! So sudden came the
limelight invasion
I hardly had time for my much-rehearsed persuasion
no time to replace my Sex Pistols 8-track
With the AfterSchoolSpecial bout the dangers of crack
And though I screeched WHY?? and flung open my nighty
Saying, Try me you fools! Let's start with the most mighty
Close up your ranks, level true and brave, Be Not Flighty
But no, well-disciplined were they, and my outlaw dog siezed
the clouds of perfume, the rustle of tulle, alerted the troops; through tear gas they sneezed
and snatched up poor poodle,
like a greased fairground pig
Said, put on your polyester housecoat, ma'am, we're up with this gig
and we've got many more poodles- it's a popular gig.

Why? I screeched, and media lies they repeated
That poodles were disturbing
too curled and pleated
and perfumed and tippy-toe, of cheesecake too greedy
leaving folk without luxuries
both wealthy and needy
And annoying or terrifying at yapping at things unseen
Disdaining to walk on pavement or carpet, or anything green
Some too big for teacups, some too small for tureen...

This I know, I heard the hourly anguished reports
of Pit bulls torn from homes, some dressed for Ballroom, others for Sport
against the black of SWAT armor, tutus and clown suits gleam
some a failed but valiant try to disguise Pit's broad squat beam

And I thought, Never, NEVER, would I let this outrage elapse
and yelling and kicking with pointy sneakers, I desperately grasp
My poodle's flattering couture- I'll have it or Collapse!!
For they will never pry....never..pry.. from my cold dead hand
Well..Its not dead or cold, just chilly from the reprimand
But I really must insist, even with some vehemence
That you sweet boys leave the finery, I see you're all nice gents
For a vinyl pink collar with super-glued rhinestones, is something precious and rare
I'll find another more grateful breed to lavish my spinster care
Or get a penpal from prison, if any be worth the dare
So I can discuss with my new convict pet
The glory and the promise of that lurid SWAT team glare.

Packhorse said...

More beautiful poetry from SadFalada! Protest the Hero could certainly take a few lessons from your writing.

Anonymous said...

Thanks much, Packhorse! Cheap fun, the best!

Alexandra said...

If I had the skills, I'd post a counter-video, using their text and titles...but showing pit bulls attacking.

Such as their 'the death squad is assembled, why put up a fight' -- and show that rural group of four pit bulls mauling an older woman's body even as she already lay half-dead on the ground.

Then 'they'll invade your home' -- showing pit bulls body-slamming at windows and doors trying to get in to kill the resident dog or child or grandmother.

And so on.

That said, it's so boring that these people, including that Protest the Hero band, think they're original. They must be totally illiterate, even in their own field of pop music.

Rhea L said...

This is a great article. Glad I went back a bit in the archives and found this because pitnutters often do this to prove something. Their most recent desperate attempts to make pitbulls look like worthy dogs is putting flowers and other ornaments on their heads. I also dislike YouTube videos of any breed dog being "mauled" by toddlers. I saw a video of a newf having its lower jaw being pulled on. Another of a st Bernard with its wars being pulled on. Some behaviors are not okay. People need to realize how dangerous and stupid their behavior or the behavior of their children are. Although with normal dogs a dangerous behavior is less likely to ruin your life or have you grieving over the dead body of your child. I dont think that allowing kids to mistreat a dog because you think its cute it must be safe. Its not but most normal dogs will not react to the extent a pitbull will

Rhea L said...

Another comment: I love the not cute pinterest of pictures that are potentially dangerous and not cute.

I have said it time and time again: dogs are not chairs or stools & should not be pulled on. There are tons of YouTube videos where the parents allow kids to do dangerous stuff with the dogs and you wonder why they do it.

Stacey said...

SKY- In addition to, or instead of, your break stick,, you should bring a nice leather leash, maybe 1.5" wide, thick and very strong.

If you are in the position to use a break stick, you may be better off, and safer, using the leash to choke the gripper out instead. You can also choke them with a twist of the collar, with a rod or hammer handle, but you may break the collar prematurely.

A break stick puts your hands right in the red zone, and if the dog has his bite broken, he may redirect onto YOU. You don't want this.

Choking allows you to spend 99% of your effort behind the dog, not in the red zone. Sure, you have to loop it around the neck, but that's still much less dangerous then using a break stick.

I did this in an emergency, to thwart an attack, and it worked great (even w a small chihuahua collar) You
don't have to kill the gripper (I did), you could just choke until it loses consciousness then act fast to restrain it, and rescuer the victim.

I did this due to lack of options, but when I searched the web, choking was the only thing said to always work. Even pit people suggested this.
I love this post so much. I have shared it on FB and with so many people already. Great work!

Anonymous said...

"dogs don't like hugs and kisses but they don't care if kids pull their tails."

I don't know if the link is going to copy, but it's from the first post in comments. THIS GUY in this video!

O.k., so long story short.. he advises to "socialize" your pibble by introducing it to many men, women, and children. And each will reward the dog with food. The adults will just hand out mere kibble, but the CHILDREN will give "high value" treats... sausage or bacon or whatever dogs eat, IDK.

Now, as we all know, pibbles take way longer to learn things than some other dogs. For example, I have never "socialized" a dog in my life. People came over and petted the dog, et voila, it is done like magic. But, I have a normal dog. Even if pit bulls were quick studies, the things are supposed to on lock down inside the house for the first four weeks (according to some dog behaviorist.. and I can't imagine anyone doing that, but still).

So, we'll say, for a couple of months while the dog is learning about the world, this guy has the bright idea to teach it "people are a portable food supply".

So, for however long, the video guy has the unwary owner train their PIT BULL that people = food and children = really awesome food. Pibble must be confused the day people stop automatically giving them food or treats. And this will be doubly confusing because now and then, people will give the dog food and/or treats. But, the dog won't be able to figure out any kind of pattern.

And this guy is some "expert"? He thinks this will make pit bulls love to meet children. And, I guess it will right up until the children stop giving pibble delicious treats.

I can even imagine pibble doing its best "good dog" antics and not understanding why kid isn't handing over the bacon. I mean, it's a puppy and if you teach it something that dumb, how is it supposed to know any better? (Not letting pibble off the hook for mauling people!)

From what every pibble fan says, when the things are puppies many of them are pretty friendly. This might even be true since, well, puppies. So, if that is the case, why is every single person they meet giving them a treat? What about everyone giving them some kind words or a pat on the head? It works for many other breeds of dogs, after all.

Anonymous said...

oops, it isn't the first post. it is maybe the 3rd post. the first post by Dawn James in this thread. from other threads, I get the idea that most people here are familiar with this Ian character.

Unknown said...

The greatest atrocity I ever read was "it was bred out of them, They have no aggression to mankind, they are only aggresive and dangerous t o OTHER animals!!!!!!!"

Small Survivors said...

anon 4:35 Thank you for capturing the idiocy of Dr. Ian Dunbar!

wsmith - infuriating, isn't it? people are somehow special animals and our animals - pets, just don't seem to count.

Sharon Beth said...

whoa good comment

Unknown said...

Oh Lord, the last one, what kind of morons let an "unadoptable dog" around their baby? I really hope that poor child doesn't pay for his/her parent's lunacy!!! The photos make me shudder.

KaD said...

"she "expressed disbelief that the pit bull that seemed to watch over the infant like a protective parent would ultimately end the baby’s life."

More like a lion watching over a gazelle. BSL protects people from their own stupidity and delusions.