Tuesday, March 4, 2014

good news, bad news

first the bad news
missouri rep RON HICKS is on the fast track to creating equal rights for all breeds of dogs. when i read that out loud it sounds more like crazy news but hey, it's their headline.

and now for the good news
missouri is really open minded about self defense. i mean REALLY open minded. for those of you who are not comfortable with firearms, the world is your oyster in missouri. ONLY switchblades are restricted in missouri. that means you can legally own, carry and of course use these amazing push daggers. i love these little guys. a few years ago, they hit my radar and i immediately looked into acquiring them but was disappointed to find they are not legal in my state. that prompted me to research knife laws and lo and behold, these puppies are legal in missouri. i would love to be armed with two of these. bring on the pit bulls.

granny get your dagger.

available at cold steel for $125 or a smaller version for $105 or the mini for $30

missouri revised statutes chapter 571

knifeup missouri

knife laws by state

i am sure that this message would be approved by hunter and 2nd amendment enthusiast RON HICKS.


Dude said...

I don't think the manufacturing and sales side of the gun lobby would object to more pit bulls. Pit bulls generate sales of firearms and ammo.

I'm trying to recall how many pits have been shot by the public in recent years, within roughly a 5 mile radius of me. 4 for sure, in 3 separate instances, and these are just the ones I know about.

I like the push blades, but I think my guns have it covered :-)

scorched earth said...

I have already made my thoughts known on Ron Hicks article.

Packhorse said...

Equal rights for dogs...

except for those ripped apart by pit bulls,
or imprisoned in Missouri's many puppy mills,
or the wild canines whose sport hunting Hicks presumably defends.

Interesting position.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

the gun is not always the best choice for some people or some situations. there have been a handful of times that i would be reluctant to fire. after that first time, i made sure i always a knife too. the push dagger looks far superior to my 4 inch knife.

Packhorse said...

Am I the only one who thinks a captive bolt pistol would be the best line of defense against an attacking pit bull?

Think about it. With a traditional gun, it would be too easy to miss and hit the victim, or have the bullet pass through the pit and hit the victim. With the knife you'd have to reach under the neck of the gripping bulldog and it's possible it could redirect onto you.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

No Country for Pit Bulls.

i like it packhorse.

KaD said...

And Aurora Colorado is upholding the pit bull ban! Woo hoo!

Anonymous said...

I hadn't thought about that. I kept thinking about the shark sticks, but a bolt would be much more likely to be legal.

This country is drowning in the tyranny of special interest groups and lobbyists. To my the pittie crowd is the most loathsome, as the dangerous dog problem is one with easy fixes if people weren't so effing gullible.

Pit Dispatcher said...

Funny you show that push knife. On one of the things I read while figuring out which knife was best, and most possible for me to use and carry, I ran into a comment on push knives. This person *claimed* it was the most useful by far, though the way he used it was pretty damn insane. (right into the mouth!) I can see this working pretty well in an attack on yourself, but, holy shit!!! (I prefer a nice, enormous, fixed blade, a Bowie or other hunting knife.)

Here is the thing about knives- you are gonna get harmed if you use one in an attack on yourself, you just won't get killed or lose a limb (worth it, IMO). They are awesome for saving someone else, or saving a pet, in situations where a gun endangers them, or the public (or you don't have one!)

FYI- Stopping the mauler w a knife does take MUCH longer than you would ever think it could, even if you get great cut/cuts in. This is true with just about any method, if you don't get a good shot to the spinal cord/brain

People that don't hunt tend to think you stab, or whatever, and the attack stops. NOPE. A deer can run 100 yards, from a standstill, after being shot w an arrow, directly in the heart (shredding it). Imagine what a pit can do in the few minutes it takes for it to die. (this is why I like the choke method best, you can make the dog release)

Avoiding the attack is the only way! This is why I support eliminating any loose pit bull before it attacks. if it's gotten loose this time, it will happen again.

(I need to finish up the self defense post)

RSM said...

It scares me to think of how many more fatalities there would be if we weren't a nation of gun lovers.
Pit bull attacks have changed my mind on CCW (for myself) and guns entirely.

We cannot forget that guns aren't a silver bullet.They bring their own set of added risks, and added deaths, even if every owner was responsible (and LOL to that). I wish we had the stats on how many attacks are stopped w guns.

It sucks it's come to this. We should be using preventative measures, instead of arming more people. Zimmerman got a gun because of loose pit bulls, after all......

tropical storms said...

If you live in an area that allows you to carry (or wear) them check out sugar cane knives.

Anonymous said...

It should be legal to dispatch any dog menacing human or animal at any time using any means necessary. Knife, gun, bolt, shark stick, splitting maul, whatever.

What I'd like to see is that any time the anti-BSL groups mobilize in a state, a pro-Victim group mobilizes and pushes for the right to defend yourself and your animals, AND a universal requirement for insurance on all dogs, again, let the actuaries sort out who pays what depending on what they own.

I want these dumbass legislators to see that there isn't just one side to this issue.

Anonymous said...

"Equal rights for all breeds of dogs."

I didn't know dogs had rights, let alone breeds? Wow.

I don't want to have to defend myself against a pit bull, or a bull mastiff, or a cane corso, or a rottweiler, or a...

What about my rights? Oh, I see. I don't have any. Dogs over humans. Got it.

S.K.Y. said...

I've always been worried about carrying a gun, because of the risk of shooting a passerby or my own dog ("the likely pit victim"). I like Packhorse's idea of a captive bolt gun. I looked and initially only saw huge slaughterhouse versions for $1700 or so. Then I found this one: http://www.gasdehorners4you.com/page/447339586 for $345. It's German made and available many places, but that was the cheapest I could find. I'm not sure how safe these would be to carry around in a pocket while walking my dogs. However, captive bolt pistols as a whole have been deregulated since 1998 (I've read), and no firearm permit is required. Two people in history have been murdered by captive bolt pistols, which doesn't make them sound super dangerous.

Does anybody here have one or have used one? I don't know how much strength, aiming ability, etc. is necessary. The good thing is that they don't look like a gun, so you could probably eliminate the mauling pit bull without the owner realizing what was happening.

Dude said...

I found a captive bolt gun online for $251. http://www.qcsupply.com/farm-livestock/handling/bolt-stunners/blitz-kerner-captive-bolt-stunner-only.html

The problem I see with them is their bulk and weight. The one I see here is 13" long and weighs 5 pounds. That's a lot to tote around and it's a chore to reset it for an additional shot.

Dude said...

Pit Dispatcher: "FYI- Stopping the mauler w a knife does take MUCH longer than you would ever think it could, even if you get great cut/cuts in. This is true with just about any method, if you don't get a good shot to the spinal cord/brain"

This is worth repeating, and I've experienced this first hand with a deer in black powder season. I thought I'd missed. Even with a 50 caliber hole through the center of the heart, the deer traveled 70 yards and jumped a fence as if it was untouched. Whatever weapon you use, don’t strike and wait for a result, be continuous in your efforts until you succeed.

A knife can be fatal, of course. Even deep slashes across the back of the legs that transect the femoral arteries will be fatal, but it won't be instantaneous. In fact, it will take awhile to bleed out. The problem with the video demo is that the carcass is skinned and slashing across animal hide is a very different matter than what you see in the video. Much of this depends on the sharpness of your blade. If you carry a knife for self defense, don’t use it for other things because it will be dull the day you need it.

Going after the CNS at the spine is the quickest immobilizing strategy if you can get there, but it will take substantial force and probably persistence to get through the spiny process.

I would go for the lungs first because you can hit both lungs multiple times in just a few seconds. I would like to go for the carotids in the throat, but the issue with this is the hazard to the victim in the pits grasp as it shakes its head and jumps around.

You have to attack what's available to you. If I could roll a pit in a way that I could access his belly, a slash to the thinner skin at the upper belly would instantly give you access to push a knife through the diaphragm and slash within the chest. Because of the angle to push forward and into the chest cavity from below the sternum, I think the push knife would be the way to go. (If you’ve got ninja skills, you can remove the heart before it quits beating and display it to the pit’s owner and assembling crowd for dramatic effect ;-)

In the end, you have to use what's legally available to you, what you're comfortable with and can deploy safely. For a fit and youthful carpenter, a hammer would suffice. But he wouldn't be able to stop an incoming threat before it even makes contact the way you can with a gun. A hesitant pit that circles while considering his best approach for an attack can be dispatched at the outset in the right circumstances and setting.

If you use a handgun with hollow points/fragmenting rounds, you don't need to over think the hazard because the round will not exit the animal; it's a complete miss that is a hazard to others. In an attack that has already started, position yourself over the pit so you are shooting straight down into the pit, on or near the spine. Place the muzzle in contact with the pit, (point blank,) and you will stop him immediately.

Every second of delay, every shake of the head increases the risk of permanent injury or death for the victim. Be decisive and deliberate, ASAP.

Animal Uncontrol said...

What type of weapon could stop one of these?


Arms race, folks.

scorched earth said...

Interesting video AU. First thought is where did that guy get enough money to obtain that property?

The dog is grotesque.

DubV said...

Hollowpoints can very easily travel through a pit and hit someone else.

Many 9 mm hollowpoint loads will travel 14" or more in ballistic gelatin that is wrapped in denim. So, be careful with your background.

There are some more fragmenting rounds that are less likely to leave the animal, however.

Dude said...

DubV, I guess we need to hunt up a pit bull carcass and do some testing. With all the pit bulls euthanized daily, it seems like we could find a couple for ammo tests.

I'd be surprised because bone and muscle has greater density than ballistic gel. None-the-less, I agree it would be prudent to shoot with the expectation of over penetration and an exit wound.

Anonymous said...

Someone suggested to me that a sharp kick to the testicles (if the dog has testicles) would be effective. I am unsure because no one has mentioned trying this and people have mentioned trying just about every other thing. So, this makes me wonder if they tried it and it was so ineffective it wasn't even worth mentioning as a failure. I suppose a knife could be used in place of kicking. IDK... what does everyone think?

Anonymous said...

BTW, equal rights for dogs?! Really?

I do not think there is a huge amount of "dog discrimination". Well, unless you count the small dogs that certain people think it is all right to abuse. This is extremely sad because small dogs, for the most part, were specifically bred to be companion animals and are wonderful pets!

Then there's the fact that "dog rights" are being put over humans in many cases. Do these dogs vote? I know their owners do, but there are only so many owners. Then, when you look at the owners, many own more than one dog. So, we're talking about a fairly small voting group spread out over the entire country.

Animal Uncontrol said...

Scorched: I thought the same thing, then realized that may not be his property - It may be a short term rental or belong to an acquaintance.

I took a look at the BGK website, and this guy is asking, and getting, "7K" for puppies! (In some cases, anyway).

Anonymous said...

How much ya want to bet he doesn't pay a dime in taxes for selling those pups?

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

If you’ve got ninja skills, you can remove the heart before it quits beating and display it to the pit’s owner and assembling crowd for dramatic effect ;-)

oh dude, always love your comments.

i can think of three cases where pit bulls were killed with a knife, even with a two inch blade. i think there were minimal injuries, if any on two of them and severe injuries on the third.

i think it is best to go into these situations thinking that you will be injured. this is a fight for your life and an injury is the least of your problems. it's the same with a human predator. no matter how polite or convincing they sound about not harming you if you just comply with their demand, you should assume that you will not emerge in one piece, if at all. it is better to force their hand and get it on right then and there.

these grippers are faster than cats so don't be surprised when things do not go according to any preconceived idea about how you thought that it would play out. in fact, you should expect surprises. these situations can unfold faster than you can draw and chamber a round (it's not a bad idea to know how many seconds you need to do that), faster than you can raise a pitch fork and even draw a knife. the presence of a nutter adds another variable that you should be prepared to deal with.

here's an example of even an experienced gunman shooting himself when trying to dispatch a mutant. that's exactly how fast these happen.

Animal Uncontrol said...

I think the advantage that a weapon gives you is largely psychological. While the dog is not intelligent enough to grasp the threat posed by, say, a gun the OWNER would be. If enough of these beasts are killed in the act, it may encourage the derelict owners to control their monsters. Essentially, Smith and Wesson becomes the prominent animal control agency.

As always, no where near a perfect solution but better than nothing.

One good example of a similar effect is the Miami pit bull "ban". My understanding is, its a rather "soft" ban in that they don't patrol looking for pit bulls. However, they get ONE complaint about the dog and its GONE. The nuts now have a genuine fear of authority. Again, the authorities don't seize all the pit bulls as they have no real need to - Seize 20%, throw the fear of God into the other 80%.

Net result of the above is, there are still pit bulls in Miami BUT it encourages the pit owners to be super responsible, and any that are not are filtered out.

DubV said...

Dawn brings up a good point.

Even in what is relatively lame in comparison (a fist fight between 2 humans), if you assume that you can meet someone of roughly your own size and not get punched, etc., then you will not be very effective. Someone fighting with this mentality will not purposefully close the distance on their own turns and get close enough to strike. Instead, their opponent will do so and usually win as a result. You'll notice that the person afraid to be hit will have all their weight on their back leg, are generally arching their back to get farther way, have their guard up in a ridiculous manner, and all their punches miss by about 2 feet.

Don't be that person with a mutant about.

Pit Dispatcher said...

Dude- Im glad that was repeated.
I know what stands out to me most after an attack/attacks:

1) How LONG it takes to end a life of a raging dog- no matter the method. It was "OMG, Im STILL gonna die- either from the dog, or from the effort exerted in killing it". Most normal people have only experienced death like this on TV, so the reality is shocking.
*A pit will keep fighting even when being disemboweled, "stem to stern". It may not last long, but the damage done in even 2 min can be pretty nasty.*
This is why GAMENESS is the most dangerous thing about this animal, and why they are so hard to stop.

2) How amazingly fast attacks happened. It was like light speed, even when you see it coming from a decent distance. People see this stuff unfold in their heads, maybe even on screen, but in real life- it's surreal how extremely quick it is.

The other day my cat was chasing another cat, and there was no way I could even remotely keep up. This reminded me how very slow, and clumsy, we are on 2 legs.

3) Situational Awareness is so critical and can save your life. Being caught off guard is the worst, and makes you a sitting duck. I know you cannot anticipate everything, but just paying attention can save your life.

4) How very vulnerable everyone is, but especially children, I am terrified for mine. They not only cannot defend themselves, but they are usually too young to carry any of the things they would need to save their own lives. Once your kid is big enough to carry it, get them a big, thick bike chain w lock. It is not illegal, and may not be the best things, but is better than nothing. Plus, a whistle to alert help.

5) How badly we need BSL. I don't need any more threats to myself and family!!!! it is bad enough we live in a high violent crime nation, with a ton of meth heads and gangbangers. We do not need this added threat, when it's so easily fixed.

Which leads me to.....
My belief that it is simply smarter to dispatch the pit BEFORE it attacks. How you do this is up to you, but If it is loose, it is MINE.
TOO MANY deaths, serious maulings, have happened after months to years of aggression and attacks on animals. DO NOT WAIT.
If one is coming at you, assume it's a threat. shoot first, apologize later- even if you get cruelty charges (!!!) it is worth not losing a limb, or worse.

(not trying to scare anyone, not every pit is as game as the ones mentioned. but since you never know, best to treat it like a zombie killer.)


Mom in (a great state) said...

Woo Hoo, my state has even more lenient knife laws, some of the most lax in the US. You can own any knife, and open carry pretty much anything. There are some limits on concealed carry, but nothing too restrictive.

The gun laws are equally lax, zero state rules or registration for any guns, period. You can open carry anything. So long as you aren't a felon, a short $65 class gets you the ability to concealed carry just about everywhere (even where guns are banned).

I loathe that we need to add these risks to get safety from dogs. I prefer BSL than being armed to the teeth.

Animal Uncontrol said...

I estimate the killing the monster outright is the best thing to do, otherwise you wind up with a FREAKSHOW like THIS -


What a complete disaster. I am going to dedicate at least a couple of blog posts to this epic fail.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Animal Uncontrol, I look forward to your posts on the topic!

...and "FREAKSHOW" is right! After viewing that garbage I feel like taking a shower... gross.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

i am looking forward to piece on this ugly beast.

one of my twitter friends has feverishly been working to find mickey a home. an appropriate home has finally been located.

Anonymous said...

Any mauling dog these assholes want to save should have all of its teeth pulled first.

That way, it if ever gets loose again, we can all take our time beating it to death with a shovel.

Animal Uncontrol said...

Originally, I'd thought a dumpster would be a good forever home for Mickey. Now, I think a Mickey BBQ may be in order.

It would be a blast to troll the nuts with a "Serve Mickey" page or some such.

scorched earth said...

LOL to the "appropriate home" for Mickey!!

Anonymous said...

Which kid did Mickey maul? I usually don't bother learning the mauler's name, so I just do not know. I guess that is better than the mauler fan clubs that never bother to learn the kid's name. BTW, one of the tweets in the top 20 "save Mickey hashtag" complains about Mickey being "surrendered because he chews". They were surprised since "all dogs chew". I wonder if they would feel differently if they found out it was a child Mickey "chewed"?

Anonymous said...


Mom in Eugene said...

The only appropriate home for Micky is in the bottom of a lake w cement shoes.

What weak willed AC person allowed this dog toy be rehomed? Lets hope they at least warn the neighbors, and one gives Micky his last meal of Xylitol and liquid nicotine…

That kid got his face RIPPED off, and thats still not enough to kill a mauler?

Mom in Eugene said...

I should have clicked the link first, I do think that IS a perfect home for him!

I sure hope they don't end up really rehoming him. I will puke.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for the info. I used it to google and got his You Caring page and there are people on there defending this foul dog. The newspaper just had to say the boy took a bone which is false anyway and that is all the nutters can rant on about. Like a four year old boy could take a bone from a freaking pit bull! Mickey needs to be killed, but someone on twitter claimed they found a home for him. Well, I hope the people there enjoy being mauled because that seems to be what Mickey's forte.

Anonymous said...


the page for Kevin.

i don't have FB so I can't tell the nutters to shut up.

Pit dispatcher said...

Animal Uncontrol-
Horrifying, a pit that weighs almost as much as me. There's another video of that same monster w a child, with his arm around it. I don't think even a .45 would stop it. Truly awful, and scary as hell.

Thankfully, these ones are so valuable that they are generally housed with great security- not because they GAF about others safety, but because its a monster worth stealing. If these ever get mass bred, then we will have problems (like w Presas and Dogos)

A Pit Safari sounds great....

Pit dispatcher said...

THIS monster is called a service dog, of course!