At what point do you stop attacking a dog that attacked yours?
I need help with a rather sticky situation. [Michigan]
I apologize if this isn't the correct forum for this post. I was unable to find any legal questions forum. I love my brother and his Pit Bull Ozzy. This entire situation makes me sick and we need help. Any help will be GREATLY appreciated. Thank you in advance for your time.
I have a big problem. My brother owns a Pit Bull in Lansing Michigan. Last night he broke his collar and attacked a neighbors dog. While the neighbor was holding Ozzy *my brothers pit bull* down by his collar and allowing his dog to attack him, he ended up getting bitten by Ozzy. The bite happened because Ozzy tried to defend himself. I have video of the entire incident. Good quality, and you can see everything.
After allowing his dog to attack Ozzy for nearly a minute. They finally separated the dogs. The neighbors dog continued to viciously go after Ozzy while Ozzy showed no further interest in fighting. After dogs were seperated, he (the neighbor) continues to hit, choke, slam his head on the concrete and do everything he can do damage Ozzy and "try to kill him". Those are the words he said to my brother. What I need is legal help. My brother is very passive and doesn't defend himself very well and has NO idea where to turn. If he allows it, he will be completely railroaded in this situation, to say nothing of what will happen to Ozzy and further Pit Bull reputation in the area.
The neighbor said, in his statement to the police. "That dog came after my throat and my dog stopped him". In the video you can see that not only did Ozzy bypass him completely, he never once tried to bite the PERSON holding him down and choking him during the entire event. Even after getting punched several times, choked and having his head slammed into the concrete. All Ozzy did during, even THAT, was try to get away. I need help, please. We need resources and ideas for legal protection. I will provide the video once I know it's legal and safe to do so and to the proper person.
Thank you very much for your time and any help that anyone here may be able to offer.
Concerned Pit Bull lover and brother.
a few naive fur mommies commiserate with the OP then WHAM! awesome response
Here's the deal.
Tell your brother to go in the bathroom, look in the mirror and say......WAY TO GO DUMBASS! YOU'RE TOO DUMB TO CONTAIN YOUR DOG NOW LOOK WHAT HAPPENED!
Get rid of the dog and be done with it. He's too stupid to be a responsible owner and if I was the neighbor I would have went and got a metal crowbar and split that fuckers head open. I don't know wtf you expect from people when a dog comes onto THEIR PROPERTY and starts to maul their dog. All your sympathy begging captions doesn't change the fact of who is in the wrong and who is in the right here.
SHITTY OWNERS SUCK!!!!!!!!!! It makes all responsible owners look bad!
"if I was the neighbor I would have went and got a metal crowbar and split that fuckers head open."
i like the way this guy problem solves! be sure to click the link, the debate rages a little while longer.
Typical nutter reality distortion field at work.
The following is just me stating the obvious, I think. If I missed anything please let me know.
I clicked through the long section where he was holding the dog down. I didn't see all these punches and slams.
All I saw was someone controlling an aggressive, large dog and not able to contain his own dog simultaneously.
The nutter doesn't realize that the video doesn't support her case and that people aren't likely to give both dogs equal treatment when it is their dog that was first attacked.
That nutter is the type that always asks "why didn't they use a taser first?" every time LEO has to discharge a firearm to kill an aggressive pit bull attacking something.
They want everyone to take risks for their stupid, aggressive pit bull.
Look at that awesome fence!
I loved how she made it the neighbor's fault because he took his dog into his own backyard. So typical.
Speaking of Animal Uncontrol...a great moment happened in Seanuttle yesterday when a veterinarian's therapy pittie who had previously bitten an A/C officer got loose and mauled a man.
911 forces had to shoot it.
When you wrote that, I looked and wondered "What fence?" even through I had read about it in the PB-Chat thread.
I could only see the fence when I blew up the video to full-screen. Excellent fence indeed! Perfect for containing...chickens? It looks like the sort of fence my Mom uses in gardening to make the rose vines fun a certain way.
I'm with DubV. I think that the owner of the attacked dog was pretty chill, once he got the attacker under control. When he picked up the bike, I thought he was going to start beating the attacking dog with it.
The PB Chat moderator who made the "bash its head it with a crowbar" is Bogieman and he is a reliable hoot.
Also, I always feel guilty when I pick on poor people, cause I am one, but how about some basic yard maintenance? A rake and a few Hefty bags will go a long way, jeez.
That whining pit bull owner, if he's got even one brain cell left in his head, had better NOT show THAT video to the police, a judge or jury because it definitely is NOT in his best interests to do so. That video would be perfect evidence for the OTHER side....not his!
That other dog, the one that was attacked, looked like a pit bull too.
Amazing, isn't it, how people only see what they want to see. How Mr. Video Maker could possibly look at his own video and think it supports his side is ludicrous.
Thank you for a good laugh, by the way. I was LMAO at the start of the video when the man was trying to hold back the attacking pit while his dog was ripping into it also. He did try to control both dogs, but how could he? Where was the attacking pit's owner or Mr. Video Man? Why didn't they step in to help? And what's up with that fence?? Pitiful.
Kind of makes you wonder how many times Ozzy has done this, suspect it is not a first for him.
The owner of the dog that was attacked quietly holds Ozzy down until Animal Control arrives to catch pole him to the truck. Remarkable self control in my opinion.
Ozzy the pit bull picked a fight with the wrong pit bull and his owner. Ozzy's owner (Mr. Passive) should stick to having fish as pets.
Oh, I forgot to add, I was amazed at how fast animal control got there!
dem sum good pit dawgs. LOL!
The pit owner who was not home and the admirer of his pit bull dawg are delusional. That video clearly shows their pit is more DA and game than the other guy's pit bull. Suppose he's making up for being so "passive" so he needs a psycho dog to compensate.
Then I read a comment on the pit chat forum where someone suggests proving the pit bull is not aggressive. LOL!!!!! There's his own video which proves otherwise. What idiots.
Look at those pitties go. BTW, the pit fight captured in the apartment complex featured in a previous blog post has been taken down. I hope someone had the foresight to save it.
love it when its pitbull owners feelin the bite instead of normal dog owners. ive had my close calls a few times with pits and and some other types of dogs too and just dont have much sympathy or patience with people who want these dogs . when you get a dog you now own whatever it does and the trouble it brings you. carefull what kind of dog you wish for .
yep, this is a beautiful example of how people see what they want to see. it's stunning that this dufus thinks the video helps his case. all that whining about slamming the dog into the ground was BS. what is not in this video is sound and i can pretty much guarantee that when the man started to rough up the mutant, the mutant was making hideous noises and struggle.
also notice at the very beginning, he busted out of his chain.
i'm with april, amazing self control. i kept wondering why he didn't ask the woman to bring him a gun or a knife.
and boogieman is reliable source for proper reality checks.
you can thank miss margo for this gem. this was her find.
"when you get a dog you now own whatever it does and the trouble it brings you. carefull what kind of dog you wish for."
snarky pearls of wisdom
what video is the nutter talking about? the one I watched has her dog running up to another and biting it. Is the neighbor supposed to wait for them to bite again to do something?
i like Debbie Bells approach to owner accountability . when you risk other people you should share the risk too. just saying your pitbull is "oh so sweet" is not enough. pledge your life and skin to your maulers whim .
having a fighting dog means that people also might be bit and injured. the kind of people who like pitbulls dont seem to care much about other dogs being injured but of course its not just about the dogs , its their owners too who suffer .
The pit lover of that video must have just gotten an education. All the comments have been removed. LOL!
I'm just happy it was 2 pits fighting and not a pit and another small dog. The outcome would have been very grave for a small dog.
re the video
i suspect the neighbor knew what he was doing , and just wanted the attacking mutant to be taken and the owner fined. he probably knew the attacking mutant from previous experience. .....perhaps he had been dealt with similarly himself ....his dog taken away and having to pay to get it back .
at least pits are built for such abuse . most dogs are no match for dedicated fighters .
i cant believe a felon can do a snack n dash , pull a knife on the owner trying to stop them , and get away with it . burnaby , vancouver .
Hey Craven, here's a pit loving douchebag you might want to do a read on if you haven't already. He's the author of the book "I'm a good dog" for pit bulls. http://kenfoster.blogspot.com/2013/06/new-orleans-writing-workshop-tuesdays-7.html
Anon 4:36, Ken Foster is a pit bull owning author. He runs the Sula Foundation, sounds impressive until you realize that it is just a guy who advocates for pit bulls in the name of his favorite pit bull named Sula. Please google the Sula Foundation, they make a practice of rehoming pit bulls seized in dog fight busts in the south. He sends these pit fighters all over America. Does he test for babesia? Probably not. Does he insure the dogs so if there is an "unfortunate accident" a victim's medical expenses are covered? Nope. He just ships pit fighters to communities where their history is not known. Remember "they are not mean unless they are trained to be mean" and these are the worst of the worst, off-the-chain pit fighters.
i'm reading foster's rag right now. about 2/3 through it. i'll have some fun with it in the future. i had some fun with photoshop and merritt clifton wrote a review.
From ANIMAL PEOPLE, October 2012:
(Actually published on November 1, 2012.)
I'm a good dog
Pit Bulls, America's Most Beautiful (and most Misunderstood) Pet
by Ken Foster
Viking Studio (c/o Penguin USA,
375 Hudson St., New York, NY 10014), 2012.
143 pages, paperback. $25.00.
The major question in assessing I'm a good dog, by Ken Foster, is deciding whether Foster sincerely believes his many misrepresentations, most of which occur by omission.
For example, Foster mentions one of the most notorious bloodlines in the annals of dogfighting without mentioning the dogfighting connection. Later Foster mentions the high prices paid for some dogs of fighting lineage, again without mentioning fighting. Foster quotes the late pit bull advocate Vicki Hearne's assertion that a pit bull who had attacked several people might be
any of eight purportedly different breeds without mentioning that all eight are pit bull variants. Foster also recites that pit bulls were featured in the "Buster Brown" and "Our Gang" film shorts without mentioning that the dogs' roles included chasing and attacking people, and that some of the dogs who played those roles were biters
in real life, too.
Foster mentions that some pit bulls were mascots of troops during the U.S. Civil War, but not that pit bulls and pit bull derivatives, such as "Cuban bloodhounds", were extensively used to track and dismember fugitive slaves, as a warning to other slaves who might think of escaping. Neither does Foster acknowledge the use of pit bulls by the Ku Klux Klan in connection with lynchings, as
described--for example--by Cayton's Weekly for August 2, 1919, easily accessible online.
Foster asserts that "The term 'pit bull' is used to describe 10-to-20% of the dogs found in the U.S." Reality is that the entire molosser class of dogs, including pit bulls, Rottweilers, mastiffs, boxers, and many other breeds, comes to barely 9%, according to surveys of classified ads offering dogs for sale or adoption. Pit bulls, by all of the names commonly used for them, amount to no more than 5.5%.
Promoting the acquisition of pit bulls as family pets,
Foster claims that "The pit bull has been a family dog for more than a century--in short, for as long as the dogs have been known to exist." But there are scant historical references to pit bulls being commonly kept for any purpose other than fighting until the past two decades. Even early 20th century breeders John P. Colby and Charles Werner, who sold pit bulls as pets, continued to breed fighting dogs.
Denying the relationship of form with function, Foster asserts that "Pit bulls do not attack like sharks. Or do anything like sharks do." But the dismembering wounds inflicted by pit bulls have been likened to shark bites by, among others, the authors of medical journal articles about how to try to repair the damage.
"Pit bulls seem particularly suited for life with kids,"
alleges Foster, offering photos of children engaging in behavior around pit bulls that would be ill-advised with any dog.
Pit bulls, at this writing, have killed eight Ameri-cans in 34 days; Rottweilers, sharing molosser ancestry with pit bulls, have killed one more. Two pit bull rescuers have been killed by the dogs in their care within 54 days. The number of known animal victims is about 10 times higher.
Of the 241 fatalities and 1,302 disfigurements inflicted by pit bulls on humans during the past 30 years, 126 fatalities and 640 disfigurements have come since the April 2007 impoundment of football player and convicted dogfighter Michael Vick's dogs escalated the
popularity of pit bull rescue. Pit bulls had already accounted for just about half of all the dog attack fatalities and disfigurements inflicted by dogs of any sort during the preceding 25 years.
I bring you a gift! I'll just leave this big, stinky pile of anthropomorphic nonsense riiiiiiiight here.
all of the myths crammed into one poorly written essay and republished by the author of realpitbull.com bravo.
i especially liked this commenter:
"It seems as though those who know the least talk the most."
LOL, you got that right.
the truth looks like lies to a nutter.
"I'm sorry you cannot understand the difference between canine and human aggression, in the way that this breed can."
This is a classic nutterism.
I want to know why these morons are always so slow to stop the dog attacks. Gawd, if MY dog was being attacked, I'd run in regardless of risk. I almost never see that in these vids, though (well, the poor person with the attacked non-violent breed will, but the pit owner just moseys over slowly).
"Hey Joe, dog's fightin' again."
"Yeah, Fred, think we should do summin'?"
"Meh. Prob'ly. Let's go slow though, I wanna see some blood first..."
(note, my horrid attempt at dialect is not meant to insult poor people, or those who lack access to a decent education. I am merely trying to reflect the... intellectual speaking level of posts I have read written by the pit owners themselves. As you can see, however, I refrained from texting shortcuts. I just can't bring myself to commit that sin.)
Someone please use real or pseudo-pyschology to explain that lack of give-a-shit to me. If someone cared that much about his/her 'furbaby', I would expect a more.. timely reaction.
Truly gentle dogs with very low prey drive are a wonderful thing.
But, among other things, nutters are unaware of this.
that reminds me of finding my dog in the backyard grooming a baby bird that had fallen out of its nest.
Sorry to overwhelm with the cute
A GIFT...! Oh, you shouldn't have....
"I'm sorry you cannot see the disappointed look on a puppy's face when the people petting it quickly frown, and walk away when you tell them it is a pitbull."
That is my favorite part. Dogs understand philosophical concepts like equality, they have self-esteem, and their self-esteem is damaged by unwarranted prejudice.
Miss Margo, that was my favorite one too. Like a dog, and more specifically a stupid pit, knows why someone stopped petting it.
I also liked the one where she was sorry we haters don't know what it's like to snuggle up to a sweet pibble. Yeah... I have my own dogs to do that and they won't maul me one day when I sneeze or there's a chance of rain.
As if most puppies of any breed aren't disappointed when someone stops petting them. The owner is just projecting their own feelings of rejection.
"Someone please use real or pseudo-pyschology to explain that lack of give-a-shit to me. If someone cared that much about his/her 'furbaby', I would expect a more.. timely reaction."
No psychologist here, but I can give my $0.02.
There are two large subgroups of pit owners.
1. People that got a pit because they don't generally give a crap about many things, especially someone else's dog. So, of course, they react with less zeal.
2. People that are deluded fur parents. They will be shocked at what their pits are doing and afraid to intervene because they are often wimpy and are now afraid suddenly afraid of their wiggle butt.
Both groups will generally be mad though, when someone comes down on their pit with extreme prejudice to save another dog. Ya know, you should've ran and got a bucket of water first and tried that or not controlled their pit so long as your dog could get in some vengeance while you are doing so, hence the video above.
bucket of water, fondle testicles, or the current fad - finger up the butt .... or they could just think positive thoughts and radiate peace love and understanding in their direction.
on a serious note, i agree with what dubv said but this particular video is from a security camera. the wankers were not home at the time Killa busted containment and a "scuffle" broke out.
I don't think the owner of the other dog overreacted by holding Ozzy down. He can't hold both dogs down at once by himself. He was also bitten by Ozzy himself at some point - so he's injured, too, and trying to contain the attacking dog. If he lets go of Ozzy, what happens then? Ozzy attacks his dog again? Ozzy goes for him?
Yeah, I've heard the finger in the butt thing several times. I'm not a believer in Freudian psychoanalysis, but come one....
I did hear of a guy stubbing out a lit cigarette on an attacking pit bull's anus. Now, I might be more willing to do that.
Nah, that would probably just make it madder. I make it a point to always carry the necessary paraphernalia to administer a spyderco enema to any pit bull that goes after my dogs - If administered correctly, it should result in a very quick bleed-out.
To me it seems obvious. Dog left his yard, entered neighbors yard and caused a problem. The home owner did what he had to do. If the dog had been properly confined there would have been no problem.
To me it seems obvious. Dog left his yard, entered neighbors yard and caused a problem. The home owner did what he had to do. If the dog had been properly confined there would have been no problem.
@TS - you can say that again!
Just read Dawn's last post again.
Really? Fondle the testicles and finger in the butt? Is it only effective if you do both at the same time maybe? That seems to be the only way to get a pit bull off (a poodle's carotid).
Wow, I feel like I've just stared into the pit nutter abyss, and the abyss stared back. No wonder they love this breed with such passion and claim it is the only one for them.
Someday we will all have to own grippers so when the neighbor's gripper attacks our dogs, they will have a fighting chance.
@packhorse - Nah, I don't want no gripper, too much downside, my dogs don't deserve that sort of nightmare. There are non-gripper breeds that can take care of themselves. Livestock guardian breeds are pretty capable.
Hey everyone, thanks for the supporting comments. My name is paul roeseke, the owner who was attacked with my dog. We are both okay, and he only suffered surface wounds. Hes still playing with the cat and neighbors kids.
If you'd like to contact me, feel free to email or facebook me
thanks for the update. what was the outcome with the idiot neighbor and his vicious pit? did the police and prosecutor laugh at his video evidence?
Bummer - the video is gone?
i have a copy. i am working on getting all of these on line.
They didn't openly laugh for professional reasons, but you coups tell. Lol. Haven't been to court yet, and neighbors dog was put down. I have the full video as well if anyone would like it uploaded again.
How's everyone doing today?
Me and my dog are good, he's all healed, and my arm is almost healed.
please do upload.
glad to hear you and your pit have healed. thank you for the update. please continue to update as it develops.
Hey, I noticed some completely false statements about me here and in other threads, including claims that I make it a practice to take dogs from dogfighting cases and ship them across the country. Nope. Doesn't happen. I have taken dogs from hoarding situations that have been associated with possible fighting, and we've temperament tested them and recommended which should be euthanized. But obviously, you aren't interested in the truth, and so I'll have a lawyer in touch with you. (You also reprint crazy Merrit's review of my book, in which he demonstrates an inability to read, claiming things that aren't said in the book and ignoring things that are clearly mentioned. But that's how you read as well, so its no surprise you'd share.)
I'll send a separate request for your legal counsel. Thanks.
i'm always interested in the truth.
"some completely false statements..."
"completely" is a bit a stretch, don't ya think?
"I have taken dogs from hoarding situations that have been associated with possible fighting, and we've temperament tested them and recommended which should be euthanized."
not a peep about temperament based dirt naps ken. WTF?
"Several had to be euthanized due to gangrene. Others were so traumatized that they would only crawl along the ground in our presence, never rising up onto their feet."
looking for the truth kenny.
The pit bulls that are slated to be put to sleep had red check marks next to them. Chief Miller said Sula determined those nine dogs showed just too much aggression toward other animals.
"Probably a majority of the animals that Sula adopts out, or help us adopt out, will leave this region. They'll probably go somewhere out of state. Then if there's any left over, we will certainly make those available to the general public here," said Miller.
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