Sunday, November 21, 2010

famous pit bulls: the sgt stubby edition

back by popular demand.
i originally published the stubby blog post on august 1, 2009. with the renewed interest, i thought it was time to resurrect him.

you all know the routine, a pit bull attacks, people call for a ban, nutters show up in force on the on-line comment sections screaming "but but... sgt stubby was a pit bull!" and "sgt stubby was the most highly decorated dog in military history!" i have in my possession a book about dogs in war and the facts about stubby are a little different than the on-line pit nutter rantings. first of all, stubby was never trained or awarded any medals or ranks by the u.s. military. and second, if stubby were alive today and bit someone, i feel confident in saying that the nutters would show up on-line screaming, "that's not a pit bull!"
i admit stubby did serve his country and i don't want to take that away from him. even if stubby did nothing more than provide comfort to frightened and injured soldiers, i find that admirable. but there are some serious exaggerations around his service and his awards.

the following is from
by Michael G. Lemish

Stubby: American Mascot Hero p24-26
Contrary to army regulations, american soldiers adopted many dogs as mascots while fighting in France in WW1. The dogs were not trained for any specific mission, but fulfilled their duty as devoted friends, providing comfort under stress in a horrid war. Rin Tin Tin for example, was a german mascot puppy found alone in a trench after an attack by americans. the dog would grow up to be a matinee idol and added to the folklore and popularity of the german shepherd breed.

Often canine mascots provided more than simple companionship. Although not formally trained, they still rendered valuable service and saved many lives by warning a comrade of attacking aircraft or the imminent onslaught of a deadly gas attack. Such is the story of Stubby, a stray pit bull picked up from the streets of Hartford, Connecticut by Robert Conroy. Europe had its war dog heroes, and although Stubby was not a product of an official military program, he is presented in these pages as an honored warrior, a fascinating example of how soldiers valued their dogs.

During the summer of 1917, Stubby became the mascot of the 102d infantry, part of the army's 26th Yankee Division, while they completed their military training in the Yale Bowl near Hartford. Conroy smuggled him aboard ship at Newport News, Virginia, and the pair landed together at St. Nazaire, France, in january 1918. Stubby joined the fighting with the 102d on february 5, 1918, at Chemin des Dames, just northwest of Soissons. During one night while the troops slept, he warned a sleeping sergeant of an impending gas attack, allowing time for the soldiers to don their masks. Another time, Stubby acted as a sentry, clamping his teeth onto a german infiltrator who was then quickly captured.

The small dog then accompanied the men into the Toul sector, where he inadvertently strayed into no-man's land, receiving a shrapnel wound for the errant walk. After recovery from the injury, Stubby and the 102d participted in battles at Chateau-Thierry, the Marne, Saint-Mihiel, and the Meuse-Argonne. The men fashioned a Victory Medal with five bars and attached it to his collar to display his participation in each offensive.

As Stubby's popularity grew, several french women fashioned a blanket for him to wear. For unknown reasons, it became popular for people to pin medals on the blanket, and shortly he became known as the "Hero Dog". The actions of Stubby may not be considered heroic, although several messages were carried by the short tailed dog under enemy fire, but heroism is a broadly defined term, and if devotion to duty is included within the attributes of a hero, then Stubby fulfills the definition. Perhaps the medals were presented more as a reward for the companionship the dog offered, as battles raged and the utter destruction and carnage cloaked young men like a shroud. Often the dog sought out the wounded and simply cuddled alongside.

After serving nineteen months overseas and participating in seventeen battles, Stubby returned home with Conroy, and the dog's popularity seemed to grow even more. In 1920 the Eastern Dog Club of Boston awarded him a large silver medal. A year later, General Pershing awarded the little dog a gold medal made by the Humane Society. The American Red Cross, the YMCA, and the American Legion all made the dog a life member of their organizations.

Stubby toured the country by invitation from Legionnaires and probably participated in more parades than any other dog in the world. While the 102d was in France, he was in attendance while President Wilson reviewed the troops. President Harding met both Conroy and Stubby in 1921 and in 1925 President Coolidge welcomed the pair during a visit to the White House. What other dog could ever boast of being in the presence of three presidents?

10. In literature Stubby has been described as a pit bull, bulldog, Boston bulldog, and probably a few others. Chances are he was blessed with a little something from several breeds.

11. According to one account, Conroy's personal papers and a detailed history of Stubby's adventures was left with the Red Cross Museum in Washington DC. When asked their whereabouts, museum personnel were at a loss. Conroy's papers could possibly be stored away somewhere in the vast collection of the Smithsonian Institute.

contrast the facts with the nutters:

decorated by who? french housewives? soldiers? even the medal presented by general pershing was made by the humane society. it was presented by pershing not AWARDED by pershing.

stubby "fought" in 17 battles NOT 25. stubby was a mascot, not a soldier. he did not officially receive the rank of sergeant. his division commander could make stubby president, that means nothing. stubby's sergeant rank is honorary only.

all of the military medals, stripes, patches, and awards were honorary. all of the rest were granted by french housewives or humane societies.

pit nutters turn "meeting" presidents into "decorated by" presidents

it is obvious that stubby was predominantly boston bull, a pit dog in those days but not an apbt or an amstaff.

according to Lemish, "The dog who provided unquestionable devotion for many years has as his final epitaph scribbled on a shipping crate reading 'Stubby the dog–Fragile." and the pit nutters have liberally filled in the blanks.

it seems equally unfair (and downright despicable) that a bunch of bleeding heart pit nutters would lie and exaggerate about a dog's breed and involvement in a war to further their own agenda. btw, this link provides the most absurd emotional account of stubby that i came across, for example, "...Stubby stowed away on the naval transport ship that carried his master to the front lines". the entire piece sounds as though stubby performed all of these acts of bravery and more on his own volition. so when a dog bites someone, it's the owners fault but if the dog goes to war, all credit goes to the dog?
seriously, this writer needs medication

this is an outstanding book and i strongly recommend it. of particular interest are the old photos and there are lots of them, 71 to be exact. here is how they break down.

49 photos of german shepherds
9 photos of sled dogs (huskies/malamutes)
4 photos of dobies
3 photos i couldn't identify the breed because the image was too small
1 beagle
1 bloodhound
1 collie
1 lab
1 rott
and one smuggled "PIT BULL"


Felony said...

I love how the pit nutters show up on line to defend their breed, they start by saying "You can't judge an entire breed by the actions of a few" and then they say "Sgt Stubby and Petey were pit bulls!"
So, it is not okay to judge an entire breed based on HUNDREDS of attacks each year but it is okay to judge a breed based on two individuals throughout history. Logic completely escapes these idiots.

Anonymous said...

Can't help but wonder if the personal journal of Stubby's adventures were misplaced on purpose.

The Gadfly said...

While Stubby is now a trifle gun shy, and showed some symptoms of nervous excitement today when the camera men shot off a flashlight during the decoration ceremonies, there was a time when the big guns didn't frighten him. That was before he got his wound at Seichprey, which necessitated his going to the hospital for six weeks. He returned to his regiment after his wound healed, but he never evinced his old time zest for battle. When the big guns started Stubby went A.W.O.L., though he always showed up, sober and ready for duty, when the tumult died down.

Friends Administrator said...

Thanks for the info. I didn't believe the BS on it anyway but it is nice to have the facts to fight back with.

Felony said...

The pit nutters' hero went AWOL!

I've NEVER read that on and you won't because they aren't interested in the truth.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

i would think the military would strip any soldier of their medals if they went AWOL but then again the MILITARY did not award stubby these medals.

one of my goals for this blog, is to provide a balance to the emotional pit nutter arguments. please be sure to save this link to stubby and use it to counter the nutters when ever you see them using stubby to further their agenda. we must flood the online comment sections with the truth.

Anonymous said...

The Smithsonian has Stubby officially listed as a mixed breed.

Additionally, the US military didn't start a working dog program untl 25 years later in 1942. Guess what?...It doesn't include pit bulls!

Other nutter myths:

LawDogs USA...shutdown due to lack of funding and demand.

Theodore Roosevelt owned a pit...The dog was banished from the whitehouse after attacking two guests.

Jessica Biel...Used to own more pit bulls but unfortunatley one was killed when the dogs were "playing" unattended.

Petey...Poisoned on the set for some reason...yet Gentle Ben lived a long life a died of old age!

Sar Dogs...Kris Crawford is prevented from doing SAR work in California due to her felony fraud convictions. Apparently she used the dogs as props to bilk money from naieve nutters.

The nutter advocates reflexively spew these distortions like a pit bull going after a widow's poodle on the attack threads.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

TR and kris crawford are on my list for future editions of "famous pit bulls" as well as helen keller. i have heard that petey was not liked by some of the little rascals child actors and that he may have bitten one of them, alfalfa i think. i have tried to locate that info. if anyone has it, please forward.

Unknown said...

So you're saying the pictures of stubby being awarded a medal by Pershing himself are fakes? Or that the Smithsonian institute doesn't know what they are talking about? I can clearly see who the real nuts are. By all means though don't let facts get in the way of your ignorant hatred though

D said...

I'm sure Felony is just full of knowledge on pit bull attacks. Funny, though. Felony doesn't seem to understand that there are MANY breeds of dogs confused for pit bulls. -.-

Anonymous said...

Punish the deed not the breed.

Yes, dogs bite....we know that. Yes, they can be trained to fight which unfortunately is usually pit-bull type dogs. And when this happens, these dogs have that fighting/attacking instinct, that all dogs have, brought up to the surface. Then the owners who have encouraged aggressive behavior usually through harsh training practices, see that they can't handle the dog and then abandon it. This usually leads to attacks and more stories to add to the bad rep this breed has.
This world will always have people who are responsible and people who are aren't.I think that you should spend your time talking about the irresponsible owners. Every dog, no matter what the breed, needs a responsible owner to properly socialize young puppies to both people and animals. Sadly, most people don't understand how much work a puppy is. I really wish you could see what I mean. I understand why you have this prejudice. Please Please look through my eyes and gather more legitimate sources and see what you find (sources as in books, experts, etc.). These dogs are the loyalist, most couragous animals I've ever encountered. They will do anything to please you.Thank you for your time.

Amy,trainer and advocate

Ashley said...

He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. -Thomas Jefferson

He >appears< to be a Boston Terrier because this is the 1900's, APBT have been bred for over 100 years sense then, developing from dogs like Stubby (he would have been labeled a "pit bull type" dog today).

ANYONE should be so lucky to, at the very least, meet the President and have their likeness preserved in a museum.

German Shepherds were first created in Germany and used as police dogs by Hitler. Regardless of their past they are used still today. Human aggression is favored, and bred into select lines for this reason. Also, for this reason, people often get them too for all the wrong reasons.

Pit Bulls have also played a huge role in our law enforcement and rescue and recovery programs.

Ashley said...

I might add... if you have only ONE book on this subject you aren't offering up much supporting evidence. When researching or reporting on anything you should provide and search out MANY non-bias, and bias, sources. Simply saying "well I have A book that says contrary to what everyone else says" does not satisfy peoples thirst for truth and accurate information.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

stubby was a pit bull. stubby was not an american pit bull terrier.

pit bulls playing a huge role in law enforcement is a HUGE exaggeration.


hitler created german shepherds? you are fucking idiot. the german shepherd was born around the same time as hitler.

i guess ONE BOOK is nothing compared to the thousands of pathological liars and gullible morons that repeat myths on the internet. you pit nutters have set the standard for proof back into the dark ages.

Ashley said...

APBT, Pit Bull, Pit Bull type... its all the same.

Also I never said Hitler created German Shepherds, I said he was one of the first to use them as police guards. in fact, they were often used to torture victims of concentration camps.

stop trying to be so sensational, you are just another gullible moron, repeating myths.

why dont you check out some reliable sources and link that info as well.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

try to follow along:
an america pit bull terrier is a pit bull.
a boston bull terrier is a pit bull
but a boston bull terrier is not an american pit bull terrier.
my issue: pit nutters are calling stubby an APBT. he was not.

i have read all of the so called reliable sources. i included a few links in this blog post as a matter of fact.

my bad for taking the word of the new york times archives and a military dog historian over donna reynolds and 100 pit nutter sites.

Anonymous said...

Maybe this will penetrate Ashley's thick skull.

An apple is a fruit
A plum is a fruit
But an apple is not a plum.

Anonymous said...

Hey, Matt, don't let a little reading comprehension get in the way of your ignorant hatred. If you had actually read the blog post instead of just looked at the pretty pictures, you would've seen that the blogger acknowledges that Pershing *presented* a medal. Being presented a medal and being awarded a medal aren't the same thing. You and Ashley related by any chance?

Anonymous said...

Pits are banned from military housing areas after killing many military dependent children:

Randall Ayers
2 years old/Orlando ,FL
May 9, 1992
Neighbor’s Pit Bull/ US Army dependent, Father flown home from Korea to handle mortuary affairs

Dandre Fisher
3-years old | Hunter Army Airfield, GA
May 26, 2007

Seth Lovitt
11-years old | Killeen, TX
November 7, 2007

Julian Slack
3-years old | Camp Lejeune, NC
May 14, 2008

Isis Krieger
6-years old | Anchorage, AK
August 14, 2008

Doug said...

Ashley begins with a quote. “He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.” -Thomas Jefferson

I love the irony of it! Because Ashley goes on to say, “Pit Bulls have also played a huge role in our law enforcement and rescue and recovery programs.”

Really Ashley? A huge role? Can you break that out in percentages? Is a huge role more than 50%? 25%? Or .001%?

Never mind your link to a discredited, self-aggrandizing felon, tell us more about the U.S. Customs dogs, (since your link is to one story about a pit bull retired from U.S. Customs.) Now that U.S. Customs and Border Patrol canine procurement is rolled into one process under the U.S. Dept. of Homeland Security, what roll will pit bulls be playing in the largest canine law enforcement units in the history of the world? Would you say “huge” or does that percentage rhyme with point hero hero?

Just asking.

(And LMAO!)

Ashley; Mr. Jefferson was talking about YOU!

Kurt A. said...

The big difference between GSD (German Shepherd) and the pit is that while GSD can be aggressive and are favored by law enforcement, military, etc. for that trait, they are also highly TRAINABLE and they actually LISTEN TO COMMANDS. They can and will stop chasing/attacking when commanded.

How many times have you read news accounts of pits going out of control where even their owners can't pull them back from their victims? Too many.

Anonymous said...

Here's a youtube link to a Chinese police dog demonstration. While they are using Belgian Malinois, they are close to GSD lineage. To see how much control the policemen have over their dogs, check out 3:40.

Stop Making Excuses said...

Another great job on uncovering the truth CD.
More proof to confront them with when they go spewing the Stubby bullshit.
Thank you

Stop Making Excuses said...

I love the new graphic to the right!

Anonymous said...

what part of "herd" in Shepherd don't you understand? German Shepherds come from herding dogs and bred to herd livestock around! They are classified in the HERDING group. There are still people who work their GSD in herding competitions. An aggressive dog does NOT work for herding. You want your dog to herd your lifestock into the pen or where ever you want them, not tear them to shreds.
While yes they have become a favorite for law enforcent, it's because they are highly trainable and intelligent. Belgian Malinoise and Giant Schnauzers are also favs. for police work and bomb detection. Why? Because they are highly intelligent and highly trainable without ripping someone's face off. Unlike the highly aggressive and unstable pit bull.

Bred for aggression? Please.

This taken from the AKC site.

The breed has a distinct personality marked by direct and fearless, but not hostile, expression, self-confidence and a certain aloofness that does not lend itself to immediate and indiscriminate friendships. The dog must be approachable, quietly standing its ground and showing confidence and willingness to meet overtures without itself making them.

Isn't there a sale on Kate Spade purses at the mall that you are missing out on by trying to argue with people who are more informed than you?

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

i can't take credit for the craven desires graphic, someone made that for me, but i will pass on the compliment.

Anonymous said...

The number one contact is the PUBLISHER of any media outlet that has an irresponsible "reporter" repeating these lies.

These lies about Sgt Stubby, Petey, etc were created by the dog fighter and pit bull lobby to protect their $$$.

It is not up to the media to lobby for criminals.

Ashley said...

I am not arguing why German Shepherds were created, I own one and have owned one for almost 6 years now. My point is they are used and trained to mark aggression against humans, in some cases (read my post carefully).

The point is, if you want to eliminate one group based on the negative surrounding them, then we as a country have a lot of work to do. We would have to eliminate certain ethnic groups bc, statistically, they are more likely to commit crime than others.

Do you see how absolutely ignorant that is?

This will be my last post on this site, I refuse to argue my point when people refuse to seek out the truth and look at it with both eyes open.

Luckily, this great country of ours protects our rights with a little something Due Process. Unfortunately, some counties have been able to enact BSL (which is unconstitutional), for those in the 200 something counties breathing a sigh a of relief bc "the vicious monsters are gone" look around, do you own a large dog? or a dog at all? Then you own a potentially dangerous animal (no matter how contrary to that you may believe.

Being a owner of a Golden Retentivity, Rotty/shepherd mix, Pit Bull mix and a Boxer/Hound mix (my rescue). I find it deeply disturbing that anyone would want to target one breed of animal.

It takes a lot of mental gymnastics to blame an animal over the owner.

There will always be a breed popular for its image as "tough", the Doberman was one, SO WAS THE GM, Rotty, Chow Chow, Akita, etc, etc and so on. You eliminate one and PEOPLE will just find another to abuse and exploit. Get it?

Ashley said...

Golden Retriever*

Anthropology Ph.D. said...

Pit bull is NOT a race. It was created by low-life humans for a disgusting "sport"/underground economy. Stop equating a man-created dog breed with human races which were formed due to natural adaptation to the different environments on Earth.

Ashley said...

And if you still dont get why I am standing up against this outlandish racism (because that is exactly what it is), it is because I am a dog lover. After the Pit Bull is no longer a target, the next will be another breed that I love dearly.

also check out what some REPUTABLE sources that's business is animals.

FYI I like most responsible Pit Bull owners, completely support have much stricter laws for ALL dog owners to abide by. Because that is how we reduce the number of dog bites and fatalities, period. If anyone on this site truly cared about the public's safety they would focus on this.

Ashley said...

Anthropology, are one of those people who refers to their dog as a person, only when its convenient for you?

Anthropology Ph.D. said...

No. A dog is a friend, not a fashion accessory or a penis compensator like how most of the pit bull owning losers out there use them.

april 29 said...

Ashley, do not come around here with that racism nonsense. The term pertains to humans not dogs. BSL is constitutional, that has been decided in multiple state Supreme Court decisions. Pit bulls were bred for a "sport" so violent that it is a felony in all 50 states. Any "dog lover" should be horrified by the number of dogs, humans, cats, horses, ponies, all manner of livestock killed and mauled daily by pit bull dogs. Your arguments are foolish and insensitive to those who have lived through life changing pit bull attacks. You argue the same pit bull talking points that appear in comments after every pit bull attack. Please spare us the cut-and-paste.

Anonymous said...

Ashley, you're the racist, just like every other pit nutter who comes on here trying to drag the conversation in that direction. Funny how all you pit nutter racists always steer it toward just one particular ethnic group and try to couch it in terms of concern for dogs.

Dog breeds are the very definition of a stereotype. They are selectively bred to display certain traits across the board. When you buy a lab puppy, you know what you're getting. You're not buying a lab expecting it to point. When you buy a sight hound, you're not expecting it to hunt like a scent hound. When you buy a pit bull, unless you're an idiot, you know you've got a fighting dog on your hands. All of these traits are a product of controlled breeding.

Humans are not products of controlled breeding. Humans are not stereotypes. The terms RACE and RACISM apply exclusively to human beings, not animals. When you compare a human being to a dog, you are insulting that human being. I know they didn't teach you this in Misanthropy 101, but you seriously need to get a clue and buy a dictionary. Stop equating dog lives with human lives and join the Twenty-first Century.

Anonymous said...

Best Friends is anything BUT reputable when it comes to pit bulls. That's like taking Dick Nixon's word that he's not a crook. Keep fishing for those reputable sources, Ashley. HSUS is selling out to Jane Berkey of AFF. Follow the money trail, and you'll see where the info is coming from.

No true dog lover would ever claim to love pit bulls, dogs bred specifically to kill other dogs. And no true dog lover could see the kind of damage pits do to other dogs on a daily basis and justify owning one, themselves. The fact is you can't control them, no matter how "responsible" you think you are. If a baseball bat, a .9 mm, boiling water, a flower pot, a knife, pepper spray, and bear spray can't stop an attacking pit bull, what in the hell makes you think you're so special that you could?

Al Swearengen said...

Ashley is yet another example of someone made more stupid by thoughtlessly subscribing to the irrational equivocation made popular by pit bull propagandist.

Bagheera Kiplingi attempted to teach Ashley about fallacies of reasoning. Remember Ashley?

"An apple is a fruit
A plum is a fruit
But an apple is not a plum."

Yet Ashley insists on ignoring the lesson and remains stuck on stupid. Ashley argues:

Breed and race are the same.
Racism is bad.
Therefore, breed specific views are bad.

So let’s use Ashley's very own line of reasoning to illustrate why Ashley is a racist. Ashley already made her own statement regarding German Shepherds to demonstrate her belief that heritable character traits are a function of breed and breeding. Ashley’s own words, “German Shepherds… Human aggression is favored, and bred into select lines for this reason.

I believe even an idiot like Ashley knows a German Shepherd when she sees one. And she expects certain heritable traits will be exhibited based on that appearance. Of course, she’ll quibble in the semantic seams of having said, “in some cases,” (because that’s what assholes and imbeciles do.) Therefore:

Ashley expects certain behaviors from certain breeds.
Breed and race are the same.
Therefore, Ashley predicts human behavior is based on race.

See how that works, Ashley? I’ve used Ashley’s version of a logical conclusion to prove you’re not just an idiot, you’re a racist idiot!

Ashley: “This will be my last post on this site…”

Thank GAWD! Go back to wherever it is your fellow idiots accept that humans were selectively bred for heritable traits based on their RACE, and dogs were not selectively bred to become the stereotypes that define their BREED! Go back to wherever slippery slope arguments, non sequiturs, tangential bullshit, and every other fucking angle an idiot substitutes for rational thinking is acceptable. Good fucking riddance to dumb trash!

Anonymous said...

Love the analogies to rascism used by the nutters to guilt the public into accepting the societal costs of their maulspawn.

If anything, the selection of the Pit Bull by the dog fighters is similiar to Hitler's SS trying to develop the aryan race.

The dog fighters continue to kill a quarter million Pit Bulls a year for not being good enough maulers, yet it is society's fault.


Anonymous said...

You need to do a little more research about the German Shepherd Dog. You might be surprised. That's why they are also on many insurance company ban lists, regardless of state. By the way, I am a Military Historian, but not a "dog historian," so my degree might not be valid enough for you.

Friends Administrator said...

Military Historian, like WHO CARES? No matter how you cut the pie, the pit bull ends up with most of it. GSD's get a small slice in comparison.

Anonymous said...

ANONYMOUS military historian, who believes you?
You can't claim expertise and not sign your name. How stupid is that?

Anonymous said...

Military historian expects us to do our own research on the GSD. I did, and I was surprised to find that in the 1920s, they were the most popular breed by a longshot. I mean, it is an understatement to say they were popular. They were unbelievably popular to own and to watch as a hero dog in the movies. I am flabbergasted. seriously. i never knew the GSD was so incredibly popular. They were the most recognized breed in the 1920s and 1930s.
Wow, military dude, you really opened my eyes. It totally explains why my parents had GSDs. They had this love for them from when they were little. Thanks for prompting the deeper look into why the GSD was so incredibly popular. And now I know why my parents loved them so much.

Anonymous said...

The Smithsonian lists Stubby as a mixed breed dog and he is claimed by the Boston Terrier community.

I believe them more than a bunch of neanderthal dogfighters/methlab guard dog suppliers.

Anonymous said...

p. - but some like to ignore that slice all together and blanket one group as the only offender. i'm not a proponent of any dog breed, i own no animals, and where we stay there are vicious dog ordinances but nothing breed specific and there's not many issues around this way. might be the area we live in though.

bagheera - most soapbox heroes (bloggers, and the idiots who engage them [myself included]) like to post anonymously, especially when they risk ridicule for positions they hold or held. thanks for your understanding.

anon - every dog gets its decade or so of popularity. point being?

Anonymous said...

Pits have had several decades of being the leading mauler/killer.


Anonymous said...

State a study supporting that "fact."

Laughable, at best.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

there is no study. the pit nutters have effectively worn down any attempts to study dog bites by breed.

but during at least one decade, the 90's, fatal maulings were dominated by rottweilers with pits finishing in a close second.

Anonymous said...

But even Rottweilers were not genetically bread for gameness and to fight each other until one is dead, or with the bite hold and shake mentality. There really is an actual difference between these dogs and other breeds.

A pit bull is a creation of man for very specific characteristics. once these characteristics are in the breed it is much harder if not impossible to remove them completely. This leaves an owner with a dog that is basically a time-bomb with an unknown timer.

Naturally if the breeds that make up a pitbull mated and were able to evolve on their own, we might of had a completely different dog.

However, it is what it is, and a wolf in sheeps clothing is still a wolf.

Anonymous said...

Hi, would just like to share the link to Sgt Stubby from the smithsonaian institute, who have the actual records of Stubby's deeds in war.

You can continue to call everyone that endorses, supports or vocally appreciates pits 'nutters' and by the looks of it, your followers will parrot that right along. Nevertheless, the dog has done more for this country than most of the people on this board.

Please read and enjoy, he may not be your hero, but he is a hero.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

i did not say that stubby was not a hero. i said the pit nutters have grossly exaggerated his military service and he is NOT an american pit bull terrier.
sheesh, please reread.

devyn said...

I will start by saying that I am PROUDLY a pit "nutter" as you so fondly call us. But there are some off comments that need to be addressed.
Firstly, neither you, I, or anyone else can say for certain what breed Stubby is...would I like for him to be an APBT. Sure. But do I think that would matter, no. Would it change the minds of ignorant people who can do nothing with their energy but hate a breed of dogs? No. And for good reason.
This is the same arguement that we "nutters" have. Its just another dog in the breed. If Stubby was an APBT, would that mean ALL APBT were heroes? Absolutely not. For anyone who defends APBT to use that reasoning is foolish, because you are counteracting the very core of OUR arguement,that you must judge each dog individually. Do I believe there are vicious dogs out there...ABSOLUTELY. Do I think that dog was born that way? no. Do I think that dog is always an APBT? Only a close minded fool would. For an APBT owner to completely deny that their dog may have a predisposition towards dog aggression is ALSO foolish, and completely irresponsible ownership imo. HOWEVER, this is not to say that the dogs are vicious, by nature. People make them so, always have...and sadly, more than likely always will.

I fully agree that people who own these dogs to show off or to seemingly compensate is ridiculous, and these are usually the same folks who beat, starve, drown, electrocute, fight...and eventually kill their dogs. Or the dog isnt aggressive enough, and they turn it in, abandon it, or use it for bait. I would CHALLENGE you to show a study that claims that APBT are the most aggressive dog on the planet, imo, I would say that goes to the chihuahua. Now clearly, these tiny titans will never do the kind of damage a pitbull is capable of..but I'm not presently concerned with that fact, Im talking about PURE aggression. I've been bit by several of those little guys, never once by a APBT..or any bully breed for that matter. In fact, I don't know ONE person who has. Now, I did have someone I know once tell me their friend's 5 year old was killed by a Pit bull...very sad story. Kid took dog's toy, dog followed kid outside, dog attacked kid for toy. Though I have heard this same story attributed to a labrador..not the same players, but the same script. My first question was...where were the parents? Why did they leave their FIVE YEAR OLD with a dog. Not with an APBT...but with a DOG. It's an animal. bottom line. If you trust ANY dog with your child like that, you're a fool.

Now then, YOU bigots...refuse to see the LIGHT side of pitbulls, while some..I dare say MANY (all of the ones I know) APBT owners know, recognize, and proactively defend against the dark side of our breed. But Im sure you think that we're the only ones that must do this. because they're the spawn of the I've heard them called.

Yes the Army doesn't allow Bully breeds on military installation..but then again...they don't allow gays either (for a few more months anyway)..I suppose you folks support this too?

Back to Stubby. If you want to go on facts....which you claim that book has. you should perhaps READ what the Smithsonian says about the medals he was awarded. "Stubby was awarded many medals for his heroism, including a medal from the Humane Society which was presented by General John Pershing, the Commanding General of the United States Armies." Now were ANY of these army medals, they don't specify. But what I DO notice is that they use the term "many" which normally implies more than two...which is ALL your precious little book excerpt gives.

devyn said...


I like this one you posted:
"He actually was the only dog to receive rank in the military. He fought in 25 battles, warned an entire platoon of a nazi gas attack and captured a german sniper making a map of an american base. the dog was bad ass
stubby "fought" in 17 battles NOT 25. stubby was a mascot, not a soldier. he did not officially receive the rank of sergeant. his division commander could make stubby president, that means nothing. stubby's sergeant rank is honorary only."

Firstly, and least important...while you waxed intellectual during your response, you missed the part where we didnt fight nazis in WWI. AAANNNYYYWWAAAYYY...Being in the Army, I would say that ANY dog that serves beside us is a soldier, no matter what YOU want to say. And YES. he did receive his rank, according to the Smithsonian, "For capturing an enemy spy, Stubby was put in for a promotion to the rank of Sergeant by the commander of the 102nd Infantry. He became the first dog to be given rank in the United States Armed Forces." The CO could only put in a request for one of his soldiers..Oh, and thats a Company Commander, not a Division...but Im guessing you arent in the military, so you really didn't know what you were saying anyway.

"The medals and accoutrements displayed on Stubbyís Left side
3 Service Stripes
Yankee Division YD Patch
French Medal Battle of Verdun
1st Annual American Legion Convention Medal Minneapolis, Minnesota Nov 1919
New Haven WW1 Veterans Medal
Republic of France Grande War Medal
St Mihiel Campaign Medal
Purple Heart
Chateau Thierry Campaign Medal
6th Annual American Legion Convention
all of the military medals, stripes, patches, and awards were honorary. all of the rest were granted by french housewives or humane societies."

Where is THIS assumption coming from? Or are you suddenly an expert..oh and that list you are trying to debunk appears on the Connecticut Military Dept website, and I'd assume..seeing as how he was part of the Connecticut 102d Inf, that THEY might know a bit better than you.

Oh..and to the numerous people who claimed that you can't use the word racism, when concerning DOG breeds...maybe you should look up the words that are synonymous with "race" of those is "breed".

For those who are going to get worked up over this, I will explain why I felt compelled to post here.

1) I am currently serving in the Military, and your attempts at defaming Stubby and claiming he basically has no right to his awards or rank go right along with the disgust I have for the military taking away the medals earned by another K-9 Soldier/Hero...a GSD by the name of Chips. A soldier is a soldier, and I know anyone who serves will tell you that.

2) As I am the proud pet parent to 2 AMERICAN Pitbull Terriers you have effectively attacked members of my family, and I will not stand by and let ignorance go unnoticed, even in a sesspool such as this, full of close-minded, bigotted, hate-mongers. It's almost like being at a PETA rally.

Thanks, and have a great day.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

sorry for the late publishing, your comment in spam.

colored text are direct quotes and hyperlinked to the original source. one of your fellow PIT NUTTERS referred to the ww1 soldier as a nazi, not me.

i know this is asking a lot, but you should reread the blog post, this time SLOWLY. i didn't say that stubby was not a hero. i said his "service" was exaggerated and it was. and so was his breed.

also, regarding your final emotional plea:
PRIDE is considered the original and most serious of the seven deadly sins, and the source of the others. It is identified as a desire to be more important or attractive than others, failing to acknowledge the good work of others, and excessive love of self.

think about it :)

and find the pit bull

devyn said...

"colored text are direct quotes and hyperlinked to the original source. one of your fellow PIT NUTTERS referred to the ww1 soldier as a nazi, not me."
Im aware you were responding to the colored text, what I was saying is if you're going to correct some parts, you should perhaps correct all. Since you are out for spreading truth and knowledge.

"i know this is asking a lot, but you should reread the blog post, this time SLOWLY. i didn't say that stubby was not a hero. i said his "service" was exaggerated and it was. and so was his breed."

I started by rereading MY comments, and I don't see where I quoted you as saying he isn't a hero. I would like to know where his exploits are exaggerated, though I was reading off the CT military dept site and the Smithsonian,though I would not put it past some to make him out to be more than he was...including saying he is an APBT, which I never bought into, if you READ my comments, you would know that.

"also, regarding your final emotional plea:
PRIDE is considered the original and most serious of the seven deadly sins, and the source of the others. It is identified as a desire to be more important or attractive than others, failing to acknowledge the good work of others, and excessive love of self."

It may refer to an affectionate admiration of or a justifiable pride concerning someone else: "proud of his son."
Or in this case, Im proud of my dogs. And please, PLEASE don't start referring to the Christian belief system and then deem Pit Bull owners "nutters". There have been exponentially more lies born of the Christian faith, or faith in general, then EVER will be by the lovers of this breed.

Yes, I believe in God, Yes I believe in Christ, NO I will not lump myself into a group that has spent centuries killing others over differences in "faith". Talk about blind brutality.

devyn said...

I read the War Dogs post you linked, and obviously found no Pit Bulls, as the Military often makes bad decision based on bad information. Try reading about how they kept the SAPI plates, when Dragonskin armor is clearly superior.

What I DID find interesting, was this part.."When Private First Class Colton Rusk was shot after his unit came under Taliban sniper fire during a routine patrol in Afghanistan, Rusk's bomb-sniffing dog, Eli, crawled on top of his body, attacking anyone -- including Rusk's fellow Marines -- who tried to come near him. Rusk did not survive the assault, but Eli was granted early retirement so he could live with Rusk's family."

Considering that many of the folks on here seem to refuse to believe that a dog, other than an APBT, could ever possibly push back from its training and regress to being uncontrollable I find this to be very interesting. Though I'm sure they would reason this away, much like the "nutters" you all hate so much. Eli strayed so far from his training that he only displayed aggression. Bomb dogs, are not trained to be aggressive like attack WHY would this happen in such an intelligent, well-behaved dog? Because its a DOG. This dog was not early retired just to be able to live with the PFC's family. It was because the military saw he could no longer be handled/controlled. Thats just my opinion on the matter though.

mindymayhem said...

Just came across this awful site accidentally. (Not looking for info on Stubby, I was just looking to confirm that Jefferson had pit bulls, and was linked here -- another site had incorrectly claimed that Jefferson's pit bull was the first dog in the White House.)

There are NOT hundreds of pit bull attacks on humans every year, let alone dozens. For every pit bull attack, there are over 10 million pits that do not attack. And of those that do, I'd like you to figure out how many AREN'T unneuteured and unexercised males.

You lie much more easily than people who give props to Stubby, but your lies do a lot more damage.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

mindymayhem (sounds like a great name for a porn star),

i think you could be my new BFF!! we are so much alike, except for the pit bulls and the flirting behavior, both things that i have an aversion to and i find rooted in insecure attention seekers. i too am an atheist, a book lover, excellent cook, maine coon cat lover, and an over enlightened underachieving trouble maker! i LOVE to kick ass of liars and thugs. don't worry, you don't fall in that category. i consider you to be a gullible cock eyed idealist. i think there is hope for you in these "awful" websites of mine.
if you really are capable of critical independent thinking like you claim you are over at think atheist, read my expose about the ATTS i saw you parroting that temperament non sense on the patch. also check back SOON for my debunking of the man biter were culled myth. i saw you dancing around that one too.

pit bulls attack hundreds of people and hundreds more animals a year.

and thank you for the compliment. my websites do a lot more damage but my victim is propaganda.

obtw, i will admit that thomas jefferson had "pit bulls" if you admit that american bulldogs are pit bulls, cuz jefferson owned bulldogs but not for long. you will need to check soon for that one too. or you can just follow me on twitter.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

for mindymayhem

There is something feeble and a little contemptible about a man who cannot face the perils of life without the help of comfortable myths. Moreover, since he is aware, however dimly, that his opinions are not rational, he becomes furious when they are disputed.
Bertrand Russell

Brian Paone said...

Someone sounds jealous that a dog was more of a man then they'll ever be.

Don't be bitter, guy. Not everyone can be Stubby. :-)

Brian Paone
Knoxville TN

Unknown said...

You're a misinformed moron full of hate and bitterness.

Chase K9 Services said...

you tell'em Harold! :-)

Unknown said...

I just wanna correct you all HE IS A BOSTON TERRIER Obviously ALL of you don't know your dog breeds. FYI Boston Terriers were made by breeding an English bulldog with a White English Terrier.

scurrilous amateur blogger said...

per your own AKC link:

Following the Civil War, the Boston Terrier breed was developed in the stables of Boston, Massachusetts, as a fighting dog. An imported dog known as "Hooper's Judge" (sold to a Boston man in 1870) became the ancestor of almost all true modern Boston Terriers.

REPEAT: the Boston Terrier breed was developed in the stables of Boston, Massachusetts, as a FIGHTING DOG, ie PIT BULL. not an APBT but a PIT BULL.

Anonymous said...

I'm not a dog expert or a dog person but looking at that picture of Stubby and living in pit bull land today I'd put good money on the notion that Stubby is a cross between a pit dog and a non-fighting breed, like, say, a pug.

Olde Boston Bulldogge said...

Stubby is an Olde Boston Bulldogge, looks like 100%. Looks just like my dog. Pitbull heads and mouths are totally different. The mount is a lot shorter that pit bull and the front teeth is a severe underbite. OBB's are working dogs and very strong. I just don't see how they call this dog a pit bull. I know many pit bulls and they have totally different personalities than the OBB. I had never heard of an OBB and I was late 40's, but when I saw stubby with his brendel coat, I was like what?? A pit bull??? LOL, no way the photos, don't lie. He could have had some pit in him, but certainly has more OBB characterists.

Anonymous said...

Everyone kinda needs to take their chill pills, no one will take anything you say seriously if you can't lay off the personal insults.
I work with dogs for a living (I work at a shelter and part of my job is assessing whether or not a dog is adoptable) and I've seen good pits and bad pits. As with any dog socialization and training is key. Unfortunately, they are the preferred breed of those are looking for a dog to fight, or who wish to look tough by owning a type dog that is feared. The pits from this background ARE vicious brutes (and I have the scars to prove it), but those that come from a home where they were well socialized, taken care of, and trained have no problem moving into a new home, and are some of the sweetest dogs I've ever met. To really solve our pittie problem, I believe, we need to make accountable those who breed and train these dogs to be vicious, get rid of the rotten ones, and spread awareness that you shouldn't entirely relax your guard around any dog especially when children are present.
I know I can't back any of this up with links to other sites, but I wanted to share what I've learned from life expirience. I've personally felt pit bull teeth, but that doesn't mean I'm afraid of the breed, just wary of those from similar backgrounds.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, let's be kind.