"The witness in there just said that he thought they were beagles. How does a beagle look like a pit bull?"
NORMAN claims his mutants would never commit such a heinous act. they are friendly dogs who just turned one year old. when pressed by the reporters, NORMAN admitted that his mutants have been loose before and that they were found in the alpaca enclosure but the savagery must have been committed by "wild animals". i guess ALONZO NORMAN could not keep a straight face long enough to mouth the word "beagle" a second time.
obviously, this is the work of a beagle. more photos of the beagle carnage @ the purple testament of bleeding war
the owners of the alpacas intend to file a civil suit.
Beagles? Really? This guy must have brain size in common with pit bulls. Small to non existent.
Heck, at least beagles exist in that area! Dr. Andrew Rozsa speculated that his mutants were blamed for the work of a cougar, which biologists do not believe live in his state of Alabama.
A direct quote from Miranda in the comments section of the linked article:
"If you have ever worked with Pits they are genital giants and have a bad rep b/c of stupid owners who do not take time with them to properly train."
genital giants? I don't want to know...
I have to applaud the judge for seeing through the "Beagle Defense". Kind of wonder about that witness, though. My three guesses are Blind/Stupid/Intimidated.
I predict the Next Act will be a flurry of folks attempting to force a stay of execution. Bumper Stickers! Web Pages! A National Campaign!
I can see a national pit bull campaign for 2 pit bulls that killed 13 Alpacas. The pit nutter groups should be reimbursing the victim, but they'll go ahead and get lawyers for the 2 pit bulls who killed 13 Alpacas. Very sad, but true.
HOG HUNTING WITH PITBULLS
Empty your stomach before you watch.
This case is just screaming for Lexus Project interference...
I tried to find videos where the hog wins. I managed to find this:
The hog ends up being shot, but it attacked the "guide" and killed a dog beforehand. The memorial to the dog at the end shows what might be a pit mix, but I'm not sure.
Notice that this is not hunting. It requires no skill. It is a bunch of idiots walking/driving around with dogs. At least they had guns and not knives. From their reactions at the end, they either didn't know the dog had died or didn't care.
Oh my God, Rumpel, that was just awful. That was so awful I couldn't watch it all the way through, and I don't think I'm particularly thin-skinned.
That poor pig. No creature deserves to die like that. What terror it must have experienced.
Why would anyone do that do an animal? That is just fucking inhumane! It ought to be ILLEGAL it was like watching a MURDER. Isn't cruelty to animals illegal, even if the animal is not a domestic pet?
UGH and those dogs hanging onto its poor face
sorry guys, I have to step away from the PC for a bit
Yeah, I thought a hog being mauled by pits for I don't know how long and then stabbed by the "hunter" is pretty brutal.
I'm not so much against killing wild hogs, it's just the manner in which it's done. I also don't have a problem with using "bay dogs" as they scare the hog and hold it until the hunter shows up and it's put down quick. Hogs are known to tear apart wildlife areas and can decimate farmland quickly and they multiply fast.
I see it similar to the difference between euthanizing a dog humanely and euthanizing it with a brick or bat or a pit bull.
As a former hunter, I think hog dogging should be illegal and people who participate in it or condone it are not morally normal.
Some hunters are likely afraid to speak their mind about hog dogging because of a strange allegiance to all hunters. Some hunters and hunting groups are so afraid of anti-hunting groups that they will not speak against any form of hunting and will be against any reduction in places to hunt/species to hunt/bag limits. So, much of it is trying to provide a staunch resistance to a perceived encroachment on their sport. The NRA is similar. They oppose all gun regulations in a knee jerk fashion.
You nailed it, DubV. A 'them and us' mentality is prevalent and it was built on the slippery slope argument. "If they make hog dogging illegal, they'll come after your archery next, or your retriever." (As if there was a similarity between bird hunting with a lab and hog dogging with pits.)
My argument is the public and politicians won't make distinctions and will go after hunting in general, because of hog doggers. Having become sickened and angry when watching the linked hog dogging video myself, how could I blame them?
Thanks for the update, Dawn. The judge's determination to put the attacking pits down is a good start. As far as the 100K in damages, I'd like to think there's a chance the pit owner has home owner's insurance, and the company can be held liable.
The difference in this Alpaca massacre is that if the pit bull owner shot 13 Alpacas, he'd be in jail, but since his pit bulls did it, it's not a crime or one that has very little "bite". Shooting 13 Alpacas would be more humane than being torn apart by pit bulls and there would be clear recourse for the Alpaca owner. She will have a more difficult time by the mere fact that it was his pit bulls who decimated her livestock.
I hope she recovers her losses.
I did read a heartening story of 2 llamas that were attacked by rotties. The llamas won by stomping the rotties out. Rottie owner was made that their dogs were injured!
"My argument is the public and politicians won't make distinctions and will go after hunting in general, because of hog doggers."
Yep. Hog doggers are giving anti-hunters ammunition and convincing some that all hunting is this barbaric or that hunters aren't humane enough to stand up to this sort of thing.
At a minimum, once the dogs have the pig, the hunt should be over. But no.
Pit bulls ruin everything!
GREAT PIT BULL GENIUS QUOTES IN HISTORY:
Sweet Miranda chimes in the comments on the above link:
Miranda wrote: "If you have ever worked with Pits they are genital giants and have a bad rep b/c of stupid owners who do not take time with them to properly train."
This is why society was better off when these disaffected young women merely wrote marriage proposal letters to serial killers..... Now that they have found a home in Pit Bull Advocacy, they are hurting people.
You Can't Make This Stuff Up!
i always knew beagles were dangerous killers , whereas pitbulls are very sweet loving dogs that take care of your children and act as service dogs for the many handicapped people.
mentally handicapped , more like.
so glad alonzo is being held responsible , after all, it is the owners responsibility to look after his own dogs and keep them at home and not killing neighbor's alpacas ect. in the end though, its the dogs that get dirt-napped , not alonzo .
too bad , that .
"Genital Giants", yep thats pretty much the reason a lot of males have to have them at the end of their leash as they themselves are lacking in that department.......
hey, i am not sure what's going on with second hog hunting video but the two dogs in the video are not the same dog. and the first video is more brutal than dog fighting. and unfortunately, i have seen much worse.
Another "Genital Giants" service dog tragic accident.
Seems someone's 3 pit bulls attacked a Lab-mix (not sure if it was a pit bull) being walked.
According to the pit bull owner the pit bulls are service dogs *rolls eyes*.
From the looks of the FB page, there's volumes of activity, lots of hateful comments because the 3 pit bulls were put down. I think the internet is about full now after all that activity. LOL!
I know better than to take a pit bull fan page at face value so I waited and now I see why they put those 3 pit bulls down.
The service dogs managed to tear the other dog enough that its leg had to be amputated. The pits were on 50 foot leashes, LOL! So yeah, they were leashed...sorta.
DIDN'T KNOW THERE WAS SUCH A THING AS 50 FOOT LEASHES. Maybe it's a special item, like a break stick, pit bull only thing?
Yes...and the kicker is the nutters mobilized and started fundraising after the pitties got the needle last Friday!
Austin Animal Services loves their Pitties and allows them to be the leading biter by a mile. So these must have been some real Red Zoners for them to recommend "Not Placeable".
The NSAR certification takes about 3 minutes. Anyone with a credit card can do it for $64.95.
Nigerian Pit Scam!
You Can't Make This Stuff Up!
Yeah, The Lexus Project is getting PAID. Women are dumping out their purses and telling Lexus to take what they want! LOL!
Even when the guy's 3 pit bulls tore apart a 10 year old dog's leg so bad, it had to be amputated!
Mind you these are service dogs that did this. What a joke.
O/T, but get a load of this:
Yes, meanie-mean people are out to get oor helpwess itto pit bull, so keep it inside on Halloween.
What kind of thoughtless moron *doesn't* keep his or her pet *of any breed* inside on Halloween?
(The kind of thoughtless moron who believes this horseshit, I guess?)
The idea that people have to be warned not to let their pits run loose on freaking Halloween, when the streets are full of children approaching every stranger's door, is terrifying.
Re Genital giant.
I happen to be reading Robert Hare's 'Without Conscience; The Disturbing World of Psychopaths Among Us' (1993). Hare cautions about long-distance diagnoses, but interesting is on page 126 about language use typical of psychopaths:
"Psychopaths sometimes put word together in strange ways. For example, consider the following exchange between a journalist and psychopathic serial killer, Clifford Olson. 'And then I had ANNUAL sex with her.' 'Once a year?' 'No. Annual. From behind.' 'Oh. But she was dead!' 'No, no. She was just UNCONSCIENTIOUS.' About his many experiences, Olson said, 'I've got enough ANTIDOTES to fill five or six books -- enough for a TRILOGY.' He was determined not to be an 'ESCAPE goat' no matter what the 'MIGRATING facts.'
Hare considers this kind of language confusion to be illustrative of the fact that the psychopath's mental processes aren't well-organized and don't follow conventional rules. He notes that the above type of verbal quirk is one that we often see in psychopaths.
Wonder what's wrong with this Gential Giant person...suspect it's more than just a Freudian slip related to a penis problem.
Don't care who's watching when we tearing 'em up (You Know)
That violence that we got nobody can touch (For sure)
Let's make the most of this bite
'Cause we're gonna die young !
Miami Dade- a step in the right direction?
Will it pass?
Note the nutters should be happy because it will include Chihuahuas.
Miami-Dade could require online “dangerous dog” registry
skanky , crazy , scary and even their dogs get pissed off at them.
Hey, a bit of good news for the day:
Pit in shelter for 2 years is taken to off-leash park by a volunteer and attacks a small dog. Small dog owner shoots and kills pit with 9 mm. Yay, prepared small dog owner!
The small dog owner was responsible enough to carry a handgun for protection.
I bet Lamott won't be letting any more pits loose in the park anymore because people are ARMED! LOL!
Faithful Friends No Kill Animal Shelter has been warehousing Paco, an older pit bull, for a year. They post about the "unfortunate incident" on their Facebook page.
Note the choice of language...they take no responsibility for the injuries to the small dog. They just keep talking about how "wonderful" the pit bull was....so "wonderful" that he launched a deadly, unprovoked attack on a small leashed dog. Faithful Friends has a pit bull program called the Pit Stop, that subsidizes and promotes pit bull ownership with low cost s/n, vaccinations, supplies, training, micro-chopping, etc.
I would also add that Faithful Friends quickly removed Paco's profile, but it exists in Google Cache...
What's My Story?
Who says old dogs can't learn new tricks? And more importantly...who's calling me old?! I'm a 7 years young sweetheart looking for a family that has lots of hugs to give out. I know I have a good shot at being the best dog you've ever met, so come to Faithful Friends today and give me a chance! I am good with some dogs, but I am a bit selective. Email my Adoption Team at email@example.com to set up a meeting.
Paco is good with children
Paco does not get along with other cats, other dogs
This group KNEW this pit bull was dog aggressive, yet they allowed one of their employees to walk this dog in the park, and LET IT OFF LEASH! This group of alleged animal lovers deliberately put opther dogs at risk...and instead of manning up and admitting their error, they can only bemoan the loss of the pit bull. The callous disregard for the lives of other dogs is so evident with all of these pit bull rescue groups, I don't know how they can claim to love dogs.
Yeah, Paco should be good with children and dog aggressive. Then the idiot shelter worker lets Paco run free to attack someone's pet. As we already know, pit bulls tend to snap when you least expect it.
If the Alpaca owner was home and armed, she may have only lost 1 or 2 Alpacas and those pit bulls would be GONE!
there are lots of fascinating studies about psychopaths and language
If the Alpaca owners had a pair of capable LSG dogs, the alpacas would most likely all still be fine and the pits would be dead, assuming they did not run away when confronted by the LSGs.
and usual honesty from those associated with a non-fighting breed
from the link
Will the maremma make a good house dog?
NOT RECOMMENDED! The Maremma should never be considers as a “pet”. This breed has 2000 years of genetic background of livestock guardianship behind it, and it needs a job to keep it occupied. As a puppy the dog will be outgoing and friendly with everyone, but its rowdy behavior needs controlling; after all, a 10 month old puppy may weigh 100 pounds!. By the time it is two years old, it will be less outgoing with strangers, and may even decide it doesn’t want ANY stranger to touch it, its master, or its property.
Of course, I look on youtube and there are tons of idiots with Maremma sheepdogs in settings that are not ideal (little backyards).
Mail delivery was shut down on a street in my town due to a pit bull biting a mailman.
dubv, what in the world made you research maremmas? a little bit freaky that you would mention the maremma sheepdog. i was emailing jake about them just yesterday.
i am not fan of flock guardians being kept as pets. just about everything i have read says these dogs will only bond with and be trustworthy with those that they are raised with. in our exploding population, i just can't see that as a good idea.
Jake wrote LSG dog, and I didn't place the abbrev. at once. So I googled LSG dog to see what they are, and the first hit was on Maremmas.
I saw a pretty big house on youtube that had maremmas on property, it seems they were used as an estate guardian by this guy. I still think it is a bad idea. Keep a german shepherd in your house as a pet and get an alarm system and gun. Much better.
When I wrote LSG (Livestock Guardian) I was thinking of Great Pyrenees, but there are other, more obscure types, one of which you found. I think if you have livestock, say alpacas, a couple of dogs like that would be a great thing to have.
They are much safer for the animals than say, pit bulls, as you can see here
I read on the upright alpaca's FB page that the owner of the pits is appealing the decision. I don't think he cares about the dogs, I think he thinks if he can get a different verdict it will help the civil suit they plan to file against him. Does this guy have no shame? Geez.
The livestock guardians were evolved to travel with the herds across large areas. This back in a time when pit bulls didn't even exist yet, then still the past couple hundred years when pit bulls were never anywhere except in the fighting pit. The livestock guardians aren't meant to fight with wolves, lions, tigers and bears. They're meant to startle such predators, make them know they've been sighted, upon which the predator will abscond to seek easier prey than this herd.
I don't think it's fair to expect a livestock guardian to do its job in this day of pit bulls fucking everywhere. Not in rural areas infested with pit bulls, and certainly not in more densely populated (thus more densely pitted) areas. Pit bulls won't run off just because they see that attacking a herd will cost them too much scarce energy because they'd have to deal with a guardian dog first. Pit bulls love to waste energy on killing anything and everything, it's what they were invented for. Upon sighting a guardian dog, they'd just think 'Yay, an extra animal to senselessly kill here! Jackpot!'
You'd end up with both a savaged herd of sheep AND a savaged set of guardian dogs, that's all.
So I think DubV is right in this day and age. Get a shepherd, or for my part a Yorkie (the little yapper dog is likely better in this case), who will bark and alert you to the fact that there's something out there. Then go get your gun and shoot the fuckers.
Jake, totally agree.
I share your concern about the well-being of guardian dogs. I mean, after all, how could a cuddly teddy bear like that stand a chance against a pit bull, right?
But in googling for information about such clashes, I've found no shortage of pit bulls injured and chased away, or killed outright, by Great Pyrenees after threatening their flock.
Now, I don't pretend to predict the outcome of all possible scenarios, but based on what I've seen, a pit bull wanting to spend an afternoon torturing and killing livestock is going to have a very hard time getting past the LSG.
"go get your gun and shoot those fuckers"
if livestock gives you special rights to shoot mutant i think i should get a pet chicken or a mini goat .
Good idea, a chicken or two might be just the thing, and who doesn't like farm-fresh eggs?
I agree that when you find a pit bull attacking your animals, the obvious response is to kill the pit bull. But my comments about guardian dogs apply to situations when you're not around.
From the rural front lines, who the eff has time to sit around with a rifle on their lap all freaking day, huh?
I'm living this scenario and I'm pretty sick of AC and my gun nut friends saying "Get your gun and shoot the dog(s)" when I'm at work all day. A LGD (that's Livestock Guardian Dog) isn't a great idea, but it's better than coming come to more dead animals.
OH, and btw, have any of you SEEN a flock of sheep being attacked by a dog? I have. The sheep bunched into a knot (there were 50 or so) and the dog (a weimeraner) was running around the outside, diving in and grabbing and tearing. The dog was so close to the sheep that from where I was initially standing, it looked like the flock had been invaded by one dark sheep. There was absolutely NO WAY anyone could have gotten a shot off without endangering the flock. It was a solid mass of sheep with the dog diving in where ever it could, never more than a few feet away. A dog attack is fast and furious and clean shots aren't likely.
A gun is a handy tool, but it ain't magic. Plus you have to BE THERE, AND you have to have the gun on you.
buck shoot the fuckers
Buckshot isn't a good idea since you don't want to hurt your animals. A sharpened pitchfork or fire axe would probably work a lot better, taking the pit bull out while avoiding harm to your flock. But if you're not around, a Kangal will do the job.
I've never owned or kept livestock, but in my home state I knew people who did. Basques (sheep) and cattle ranchers in the other part of the state.
In my experience, the working dogs were kept mostly to alert owners to predation and spook off and scare off normal predators, as Sputnik says.
Jake, I hope that you are right and that there is a normal dog capable of fending off--or even simply sustaining--an attack from a pit bull gripper.
@Miss Margo -
I have heard from people who had Great Pyrenees that have killed pit bulls quickly. They said they were shocked how the gentle fuzzball turned into a beast to defend the flock.
For their size, pit bulls are quite formidable. But we're talking about a dog that's larger and stronger.
Also - if you're really worried, a Kangal has roughly 3 times the bite force of a pit bull, and they are much bigger and stronger.
Kangal images here
Let me say that I don't like or support dog fighing, but I came across these videos of livestock guardian dogs dominating and absolutely destroying pit bulls, and found it quite cathartic. "Justice kangal" for the win!
We have used the Great Pyrenees livestock guardian dog to protect our goat herd for going on 8 years now and have had 0 losses to predators in that time. The reason we chose the Great Pyrenees and what makes them SO very special is they are truly gentle giants. We needed a safe dog that would NOT be a liability when we have customers come to our farm to buy goats. Many of whom bring young children with them. At the same time we also needed a dog that would stand up to predators if need be.
How our LGDs (livestock guardian dogs)work is they actually deter predators. They will fight if left with no choice but they use barking, patrolling the fences, marking their territory and posturing to scare predators away. So for wild predators they are actually a perfect non-lethal deterrent. In fact the Cheetah Conservation Fund is using Kangal dogs (these work much better in hot Africa due to the short hair coat) to save cheetahs. Here is the link, it is pretty interesting. http://www.cheetah.org/?nd=guarding_dog_program
I really hate to see the dog fighting video because owners and fans of LGDs want dog fighters and the type of penis compensating people that own pits to stay the hell away from our breeds. We want to keep our Pyrs just the way they are, gentle giants.
My dogs will let baby goats bounce all over them, and are safe around children but will stand up to predators of their livestock. (We bond them to the goats, they are raised in the pasture with them from babies and are working dogs, not pets). They will stand up to dogs if left with no choice. I woke one morning to the sound of a dog fight but by the time I could get outside my Pyr had some large, pit cross looking red dog running with his tail between his legs looking for a way back out of the fence. He probably saved our goats lives. Domestic dogs, pits in particular are different than wild predators, you are right.
I don't worry about coyotes, I worry about irresponsible neighbor's dogs because those are the real threat to our beloved goats. That is why we currently have 4 LGDs. It costs a small fortune to feed them but I want the odds in their favor if such a situation should ever arise. I always recommend using LGDs in pairs at least. They work well together, it is not uncommon for one to run to the fence to confront a threat while the other one stays with the goats. You would not send a single soldier to battle and that is what keeping livestock feels like sometimes, a battle between us and the irresponsible dog owners.
If you can't tell, I LOVE Great Pyrenees dogs but I wouldn't recommend them as pets unless you have a lot of room for them. Not because they are dangerous but because they are huge dogs that shed a lot, love to dig holes so big you could hide bodies in them and they bark...a lot. Also where a beagle pup might chew up your shoe, well a Pyr will chew your entire sofa. They are no where near mature until they are a couple years old but in the mean time you are dealing with a 100 lb puppy! While not aggressive, they are quick to protect their "flock". If they are bonded with your children they might misunderstand situations such as a parent spanking a child. In short, Pyrs are wonderful livestock guardians and working dogs but I wouldn't recommend them to most people for pets. Thank you for letting me share my LGDs, our treasured Great Pyrenees dogs with you.
Here are some links to pictures of our livestock guardians. You will see how different they are than Pits and dogs like that. Pyrs are protectors, guardian angels really...not fighters.
UPDATE ON AUSTIN NSAR-GATE:
This nutter raised at least $5K and collected 21,000 signatures from the Pit Dupes.
In the past couple of years there have been several "Pit Gates".
Mimi-Gate, Phony PTSD Veteran Pit Breed...saved but stabbed and euthanized later after attacking a man and his son
Blonde-SUV Gate...Pit was hit by car...police ended up arresting owners for drug and stolen property charges.
Back-off BobGate, Caesar Milan wannabe...pit bull was hit by car.
Thanks for the info on the Great Pyrenees. I love everything I've seen and heard about these dogs.
I'm pretty sure that if the alpaca owners had had Great Pyrenees to watch the flock, things would have turned out a lot different.
When I get that farm I'm dreaming of, I'll want some LSGs to watch over the animals for sure.
But, I saw a girl walking a GP at a park in Long Beach a few months ago. he seemed very calm and had a really sweet face. Obviously she didn't have a farm since she was taking him to the park to walk him. She said she got him from a Great Pyrenees rescue. So I'm wondering if GPs can typically adapt to city life...
This story was in cirulation when I was still active on the sheepdog newsgroup. The story in "our" circles was the woman rode into the flock screaming, but who knows what the truth is? The result was a woman mauled by a GP.
This story put an end to my fantasy of using a LGD on my small acreage. Again, I know people who use them, but they are a liability. Not as much as a Pit, but a liability nonetheless.
That's an unfortunate chain of events. You've got guardian dogs, living outside with the herd in open territory, given the task of making decisions on the spot, when this strange human rides screaming into the herd they are chartered to protect.
The rancher was blindsided here, as he was never notified of the incursion of city folk into his sheep's territory; he could have taken some precautions but was caught unawares, which contributed to the problem as well.
To say that LSGs aren't practical or that they don't is stretching things, based on rare incidents. LSGs have been protecting flocks for thousands of years. Perhaps some adjustments are needed, but if your property is enclosed, it's a moot point.
They are not practical in certain applications. On my acreage, definitely not.
I'm not against LGD's, but this man how has a criminal record, which may or may not be any of his fault. His setup, sans mountain bikers, was perfect for the use of LGD's.
This story highlights why it's so hard to get working dog owners interested in stronger laws against dog bites, btw. It's very difficult for us to understand why anyone would be dumb enough to right into a flock screaming, when there are LGD's presnt.
cazz, from a link within your link:
"As soon as Renee Legro saw the sheep, she screamed."
wow, what the fuck is wrong with dog owners? who would believe this shit?
from what i can tell, the GP owner is crying about not being able to protect his herd while they graze on PUBLIC land. WTF?
Range land used to be common, and is now mostly BLM lands, which are leased, btw. Rancher's livelihoods have been under attack for generations. Predation is a serious problem, and LGD's are billed as an environmentally sound solution. In the past, the job was done with poison, trapping and cheap labor with rifles.
When it's not wild predators on "public" lands, it's sprawling suburbanite's dogs killing off whatever margin there is that keep the farms and ranches alive. The help we get from AC is nil, and we're likely to get sued or fined if we take steps to eliminate the problems.
From "our" side of the range, the public prefers factory farms, where everything is nicely confined out of sight and the animals are dosed with hormones for artificial growth and antibiotics to keep them alive in grossly unsanitary conditions. Plus the big factory farms get all the nice subsidies.
Call rancher X an anachronism who deserves to be criminalized and left without a way to make a living because he's too dumb to have given it all up so the range he pays to graze can be used by the upwardly mobile, it's probably true.
the alpaca murderer looks to me like the pitterdevil incarnate ? perhaps the camera caught him at a bad moment ....smirking at alpacas eaten alive by his mutants . there just has to be a special place in hell for people like this ,..... hope he doesnt have long before he gets there.
Practical advice -
What to do when you encounter livestock guardian dogs - View Here
More information on livestock guardian dogs Here
my livestock is guarded by browning and colt .
@Snarky - very handy if you happen to be there 24/7 - just sayin'
yeah , i know . i just have the one mutated canine . the browning is for undogs and the colt if for un humans
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